E*****m
发帖数: 25615 | 1 給樓主xlxie 弟兄解釋一下宗教裡的基本知識,
信仰人格化的神叫做 theism， 信的人就叫 theist。
所有其他的人叫做 atheist (a 字頭是欠缺的意思, atheist
就是欠缺 theism 信仰的人)
信 creator 而不信人格化的神叫做 deism，
deist, agnostic 都是 atheist。
把 deist 扯到跟基督徒同一邊是很不對的。 |
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E*****m
发帖数: 25615 | 2
不夠淺顯嗎？有錯不妨提出來，你只會“..."
這本我當然也看過。
你當然也沒看過，對吧？
人家根本不算神學家了，agnostic 沒什麼自由派不自由派。 |
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D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 3 10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other
religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.
9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people
evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical
claim that we were created from dirt.
8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune
God.
7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to
Allah, but ... 阅读全帖 |
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D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 4 基督教，让我喘不过气来！
——致基督徒朋友们的一封信
作者：稍许
常常收阅你们通过电子邮件发来的基督教灵修资料，我也读过其中的不少，
我深信你们是出于好意，为此我感谢你们，感谢你们分享和助人的美意。但是，
心中憋了许久的话不得不说了，我这一说，可能就一发而不可收。以下的肺腑之
言，权当我对你们向我传道的一次集中回应吧。在各位继续之前，请相信，我没
有哪怕一丁点的恶意。你们中的很多人我都见过或认识，我敬重你们，就像你们
常常无私地为我祷告一样，我也真诚地希望你们幸福安康。
自07年8月以来，我的生活就像突然被一群马蜂跟在屁股后面追赶的可怜小
孩一样，慌乱失措，欲喊无声。我变得易怒，脾气暴躁，常常觉得胸口堵得发慌，
有喘不过气来的感觉。这一切都因为基督教！自shelly在上半年里决志皈依了基
督以来，我们之间就不时地出现不愉快。开始时，我还不以为意，但后来愈演愈
烈，近期她更是趋于狂热的状态，我们的冲突逐渐升级，乃至最终分手……曾经
深爱的女友变成了前女友，曾经畅快的分享沟通变成了互无连通。我的幸福，倏
忽间随风而去……梦幻一般。
我不相信基督教的这套救世之说。过去不，现在仍然不！但我是宽... 阅读全帖 |
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E*****m
发帖数: 25615 | 5 哪裡錯了？
你自己讀四福音，你能拼湊出耶穌死前的情況嗎？ 按你說的
是 highly distraught, 你能在約翰福音裡讀到這種情緒嗎？
學界沒什麼信不信的，就是忠實於證據而已。
Sheehan 是 practicing catholic, Prothero 是 practicing
protestant (忘了哪一派）, Dale 是 Lutheran, Ehrman 是
agnostic 但是是基本教義 Moody 出身的， 你信口開河以小人之心
來攻擊別人，至少先搞清楚背景。 |
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N****n
发帖数: 6571 | 6 Please do not take it in a wrong way. I am an agnostic.
If Calvin could be regarded as a role model for Christians,I sure would not
like to have any part of it. |
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E*****m
发帖数: 25615 | 7 嚴格的說， agnostic (不可之論者) 也是 atheist。 |
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E*****m
发帖数: 25615 | 8
Militant agnostic 是最可愛的
"I don't know and you don't know either!" |
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D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 9 发现DNA双螺旋结构的弗朗西斯.克里特解释为什么偏向无神论
My parents were religious in a rather quiet way. We had nothing like family
prayers, but they attended church every Sunday morning and when we were old
enough my brother and I went with them. The church was a nonconformist
protestant one, a Congregational Church, as it is called in England, with a
substantial building on Abington Avenue. As we did not own an automobile, we
often walked to church, though sometimes we made part of the journey by bus
. My mother greatl... 阅读全帖 |
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l**********t
发帖数: 5754 | 10
It depends on the perspective.
From Christianity's perspective, we shall worship the only true God who
created the Universe.
IMHO, taking an agnostic view and attribute the creation to unknown or "
random" causes without explicitly acknowledging them as "scientific
assumptions" (as assumed in "evolution theory") would be a sin in Christian
belief. |
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l**********t
发帖数: 5754 | 11
agree.
Roman 2:1 你 這 論 斷 人 的 、 無 論 你 是 誰 、 也 無 可 推 諉 、 你 在 甚
麼 事 上 論 斷 人 、 就 在 甚 麼 事 上 定 自 己 的 罪 ． 因 你 這 論 斷 人
的 、 自 己 所 行 卻 和 別 人 一 樣 。
Roman 2:12 凡 沒 有 律 法 犯 了 罪 的 、 也 必 不 按 律 法 滅 亡 ． 凡 在 律
法 以 下 犯 了 罪 的 、 也 必 按 律 法 受 審 判 、
you misunderstood what I said. In Christian belief, not acknowledging the
agnostic assumptions in "evolution theory", and use it to discredit God the
creator of heaven and earth is sin, IMHO. Apart from the "random" variation
assumptions, "evolution theory" the science (e... 阅读全帖 |
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c******r
发帖数: 889 | 12 沸沸扬扬的Casey案的结局让很多人非常愤怒和惊讶。对陪审团的结论感情上无法接受。
突然意识到这是个活生生的例子可以类比证据和faith间的关系。
陪审团之所以没有定她一级谋杀，是因为没有直接证据，连可怜的孩子的死因都无法确
定。所以，没有beyond reasonable doubt的证据谋杀确实发生了，更无从证明Casey杀
死了自己女儿。
因为有死刑的可能，陪审团对证据的要求非常严格。尽管有无数其他证据，比如她在女
儿死后古怪自私的行为等等，说明她和孩子的死或死后的事情有关联。。。
但是有人会坚持认定她杀了自己女儿并抛尸。
说证据不足，无法结论是否有谋杀，好比是agnostic.承认可能性存在而无法落实到具
体某一说法上。
有神论，好比是，坚信奥，证据已经足够了，一定是谋杀，但不知道是谁杀的，怎么杀
的。OK，证据不足，我们无法完全否认这个可能性。
基督教，就是，我们知道是谋杀，而且是casey杀的，这里，她是如此如此如此杀的，
如此如此如此抛尸灭迹的。呵呵，前面不知道，当你们给出细节的时候，就有了可以检
验的对象。证据表明，不可能时象你说的那样被杀的。圣经，就是JDJ给出的可以... 阅读全帖 |
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l**********t
发帖数: 5754 | 13
说了半天意思是，从 scientific hypothesis 的角度说，进化论还是有支持证据的，
而且据说很多（这个只能让专业生物人士来提供更多的专业例子了），科学上采信进化
论是不为过的。
I'm not against the science behind the "evolution thoery" (I'm biolgoy major
BTW). IMHO, apart from the "random variation" assumptionin, the theory(or
the evidences observed) is consistent with Chritian belief. The eovlution
theory (or research on origin of life) attributes the root causes to
somewhat agnostic source ("random") because it has to. Christians give
credit to God.
straightly speaking, ... 阅读全帖 |
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l**********t
发帖数: 5754 | 14
kinds
taking an agnostic view and introducing a series of "random" or "spontaneous mutation" assumption would be much "scientific" --regardless how low the probability is. |
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l*****a
发帖数: 38403 | 16 The slogan: "The family that prays together, stays together" is well known.
There has been much anecdotal evidence that has led to "unsubstantiated
claims that the divorce rate for Christians who attended church regularly,
pray together or who meet other conditions is only 1 or 2 percent". 8
Emphasis ours]. Dr. Tom Ellis, chairman of the Southern Baptist Convention's
Council on the Family said that for "...born-again Christian couples who
marry...in the church after having received premarital co... 阅读全帖 |
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s*********a
发帖数: 801 | 18 基督徒连自己宗教的了解程度都比不上非基的。
Religious IQ: Why do atheists outscore Christians?
http://theweek.com/article/index/207591/religious-iq-why-do-ath
Just how badly did Christians perform?
It depends on the denomination, but no group beat the atheists/agnostics.
While Jews (20.5 correct answers) and Mormons (20.3) came in second and
third, white evangelical Protestants trailed with a score of 17.6, followed
by white Catholics (16.0), white mainline Protestants (15.8), black
Protestants (13.4), and Hispanic C... 阅读全帖 |
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m****a
发帖数: 9485 | 19 Hi, I'm Brianna
http://mormon.org/me/2XY3/
Why I am a Mormon
I was raised in a Christian home. But at about age 12 I started questioning
everything about religion. I became agnostic, and even became and atheist
when I was 14 for about 4 years. Then when I was 18, I embarked upon a
spiritual quest. I researched and partook in pretty much every type of
Christianity that exists. I also went to New Thought churches, was part of
the New Age. I studied and was involved in Buddhism, Zen, all forms of
E... 阅读全帖 |
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g****m
发帖数: 996 | 20 十年，二十年后再看看咯，美国进步缓慢不是说没进步，就像这个
Gallup has been polling people on whether they would refuse to vote for "a
generally well-qualified person for president" if they were an atheist for
over 40 years; here is the historical data: (from the "Gallup Polls & Other
Surveys" link, below)
February 1999 48%
August 1987 48%
April 1983 51%
July 1978 53%
December 1959 74%
September 1958 77%
August 1958 75%
The religious affiliations in America are changing rapidly. Between 1990 and
2... 阅读全帖 |
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l*****a
发帖数: 38403 | 21 Originally appeared in Nature, Vol. 394, No. 6691, p. 313
The question of religious belief among US scientists has been debated since
early in the century. Our latest survey finds that, among the top natural
scientists, disbelief is greater than ever — almost total.
Research on this topic began with the eminent US psychologist James H. Leuba
and his landmark survey of 1914. He found that 58% of 1,000 randomly
selected US scientists expressed disbelief or doubt in the existence of God,
and that t... 阅读全帖 |
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l*****a
发帖数: 38403 | 22 Other highlights in the report include
Men are significantly more likely than women to claim no religious
affiliation. Nearly one-in-five men say they have no formal religious
affiliation, compared with roughly 13% of women.
Among people who are married, nearly four-in-ten (37%) are married to a
spouse with a different religious affiliation. (This figure includes
Protestants who are married to another Protestant from a different
denominational family, such as a Baptist who is married to a Method... 阅读全帖 |
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J*****3
发帖数: 4298 | 24 Sir — The question of religious belief among US scientists has been debated
since early in the century. Our latest survey finds that, among the top
natural scientists, disbelief is greater than ever — almost total.
Research on this topic began with the eminent US psychologist James H. Leuba
and his landmark survey of 1914. He found that 58% of 1,000 randomly
selected US scientists expressed disbelief or doubt in the existence of God,
and that this figure rose to near 70% among the 400 "greater" ... 阅读全帖 |
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D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 25 I have not sought during my life to amass wealth and to adorn my body, but I
have sought to adorn my soul with the jewels of wisdom, patience, and above
all with a love of liberty.
-- Socrates, to his judges, quoted by Robert Green Ingersoll in "Why I Am an
Agnostic" |
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s******l
发帖数: 6898 | 26 数据来啦：
http://brewright.blogspot.com/2006/12/christian-divorce-rates.h
by sociology professor
Many people believe that Christian marriages end in divorce just as often as
non-Christian, but it turns out, using the best data available, that this
is not true.
To illustrate, here are the divorce rates among ever-married respondents in
the General Social Survey (GSS, 2000-2004)—one of the best known sources of
sociological data. “Frequent” is attending church about once a week or
more.
58%, non-frequ... 阅读全帖 |
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E*****m
发帖数: 25615 | 28 All adults 33% 3792
Evangelical Christians 26% 339
Non-evangelical born again Chrisitans 33% 1373
Notional Christians 33% 1488
Associated with non Christian faith 38% 197
Atheist or agnostic 30% 269
All born again Christians 32% 1712
All non born again Christians 33% 2080
Protestant 34% 1997
Catholic 28% 875
Upscale 22% 450
Downscale 39% 367
White 32% 2641
African-American ... 阅读全帖 |
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b********n
发帖数: 38600 | 29 TOP TEN SIGNS THAT YOU ARE A CHRISTIAN.
10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other
religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.
9 - You feel insulted and “dehumanized” when scientists say that people
evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical
claim that we were created from dirt.
8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune
God.
7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of th... 阅读全帖 |
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E******u
发帖数: 3920 | 30 从不feel outraged。
10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other
religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.
很多基督徒都有这问题，可以自由讨论。
9 - You feel insulted and “dehumanized” when scientists say that people
evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical
claim that we were created from dirt.
没见板上三一的大讨论么。
8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune
God.
很多基督徒为此感到恐惧，感受到上帝的震怒。
7 - Your face t... 阅读全帖 |
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l**********t
发帖数: 5754 | 31
you finally got it :)
If science's role is to explore HOW God creates, it is rational for science
to take the agnostic assumption to fullfill its role.
God's creation is "deterministic" -- God doesn't toss dice. |
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l**********t
发帖数: 5754 | 32
I'm arguing the ROOT CAUSE of the "變異", which IMHO is the center of
conflict.
Darwin's theory assumes a "random" (unknown/spantanous/agnostic) cause.
Christian believes in God as the driving force, with deterministic purpose.
Once the variation occurs, Darwin's theory assume "natural selection" takes
over, and the environments upon which "natural selection" depends is
exogenous to the theory. That's why "evolution theory" rarely predict what
features species will evolve ex ante because it can'... 阅读全帖 |
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l**********t
发帖数: 5754 | 33
the
---
agree. that's why I said the conflict with Christian belief is within the
underlying ASSUMPTION of "unspecified" causes ("random"/"spantanous"/"
agnostic"
/"unknown"/"unspecific" all mean the same in this context IMHO). Modern
molecular genetic
explanation on the variation is "spantanous" or "random" mutation.
Atheists love to use the theory to discredit God's role in the Creation and
dispute Genesis, without acknowledging that the theory is actually silent on
the root cause that drives... 阅读全帖 |
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l*****a
发帖数: 38403 | 35 Isaac Asimov
“I don't believe in an afterlife, so I don't have to spend my whole life
fearing hell, or fearing heaven even more. For whatever the tortures of hell
, I think the boredom of heaven would be even worse.”
“To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and
it remains premature today”
“If I am right, then [religious fundamentalists] will not go to Heaven,
because there is no Heaven. If THEY are right, then they will not go to
Heaven, because they are hypocrites.”... 阅读全帖 |
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i******e
发帖数: 217 | 36 another hollow and unsubstantiated claim
this is exactly why atheist and agnostic find christianity feeble and
ridiculous |
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i******e
发帖数: 217 | 37 another hollow and unsubstantiated claim
this is exactly why atheist and agnostic find christianity feeble and
ridiculous
see i don't even need to change a word, that's how hollow christians are |
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l**********t
发帖数: 5754 | 38
exactly, "相信"进化论 vs. "不相信"进化论， it is just a matter of
assumtpion/belief you hold.
很多基督徒"相信"进化论 probably because they believe in 神导进化论, which
acknowledge the mechanics of "evolution" but attribute the root cause to God
( "进化论" itself is agnostic/silent about the root cause of mutations). |
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l*****a
发帖数: 38403 | 39 The number of Americans who do not identify with any religion continues to
grow at a rapid pace. One-fifth of the U.S. public – and a third of adults
under 30 – are religiously unaffiliated today, the highest percentages ever
in Pew Research Center polling
In the last five years alone, the unaffiliated have increased from just over
15% to just under 20% of all U.S. adults. Their ranks now include more than
13 million self-described atheists and agnostics (nearly 6% of the U.S.
public), as well a... 阅读全帖 |
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l**********t
发帖数: 5754 | 40
I like your use of word "the state of the art" -- as in art, beauty is in
the eyes of beholders.
The phrase "Evolution Theory" used in this forum, in contrast to Genesis in
the Bible, is overloaded. It might generically represent all scientific
theories on the origin of life (abiogenesis), or specifically on the
evolution of species after the appearance of single cell organism on earth.
Regardless the scope, these theories study the mechanics -- how life comes
into existence on earth. I don'... 阅读全帖 |
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H**********1
发帖数: 3056 | 41 【 以下文字转载自 Belief 讨论区 】
发信人: Hardworking1 (我忽悠，你参考！), 信区: Belief
标 题: Good article: God is nonsense
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue Jan 15 23:06:22 2013, 美东)
When my son was around 3 years old, he used to ask me a lot of questions
about heaven. Where is it? How do people walk without a body? How will I
find you? You know the questions that kids ask.
For over a year, I lied to him and made up stories that I didn’t
believe about heaven. Like most parents, I love my child so much that I didn
’t want him t... 阅读全帖 |
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j*******7
发帖数: 6300 | 42 这个貌似资料很全 --
http://www.geocentricity.com/astronomy_of_bible/jld/index.html
Conclusion
The upshot is that there appears to be solid evidence from the Bible and
from folklore around the world that there was one day which, depending upon
geographical location, presented the inhabitants of the earth with an
unusually long span of daylight or night. Attempts to explain this
phenomenon by naturalistic means have all failed because no mechanism known
to physics can absorb the earth’s spin energy and mo... 阅读全帖 |
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C*******t
发帖数: 766 | 43 ——致基督徒朋友们的一封信
常常收阅你们通过电子邮件发来的基督教灵修资料，我也读过其中的不少，我深信
你们是出于好意，为此我感谢你们，感谢你们分享和助人的美意。但是，心中憋了许久
的话不得不说了，我这一说，可能就一发而不可收。以下的肺腑之言，权当我对你们向
我传道的一次集中回应吧。在各位继续之前，请相信，我没有哪怕一丁点的恶意。你们
中的很多人我都见过或认识，我敬重你们，就像你们常常无私地为我祷告一样，我也真
诚地希望你们幸福安康。
自07年8月以来，我的生活就像突然被一群马蜂跟在屁股后面追赶的可怜小孩一样
，慌乱失措，欲喊无声。我变得易怒，脾气暴躁，常常觉得胸口堵得发慌，有喘不过气
来的感觉。这一切都因为基督教！自shelly在上半年里决志皈依了基督以来，我们之间
就不时地出现不愉快。开始时，我还不以为意，但后来愈演愈烈，近期她更是趋于狂热
的状态，我们的冲突逐渐升级，乃至最终分手……曾经深爱的女友变成了前女友，曾经
畅快的分享沟通变成了互无连通。我的幸福，倏忽间随风而去……梦幻一般。
我不相信基督教的这套救世之说。过去不，现在仍然不！但我是宽容的，我能容忍
它的存在。曾经无数次地对... 阅读全帖 |
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W***q
发帖数: 152 | 44 A. Thoughts to begin with as we study the Bible: how do we approach the
Bible?
1. We come to the Bible knowing there is a God.
a. The Bible does not make elaborate arguments for the existence of God.
However, it does tell us how we can know God exists.
b. The Bible tells us we can know God exists because of what we see in
creation.
i. The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament shows His
handiwork. Day unto day utters speech, and night unto night reveals
knowledge. There is no speech... 阅读全帖 |
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v***0
发帖数: 5096 | 46 你是钓鱼吗？
Marie Curie was Roman Catholic but after her mother and one of sister died s
he did not believe in God or wasn't sure if he was real
Einstein's views about religious belief have been collected from interviews
and original writings.
He called himself an agnostic, while disassociating himself from the label a
theist.[131] He said he believed in the "pantheistic" God of Baruch Spinoza,
but not in a personal god, a belief he criticized |
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l**********t
发帖数: 5754 | 47
due to agnostic/unknow reason.
your turn now.do you agree, or disagree with the following, in the context
of "evolution theory" the science. |
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E*****m
发帖数: 25615 | 48 http://guardianlv.com/2013/07/religion-to-disappear-by-2041-cla
Religion to Disappear By 2041 Claims New Study
Added by Rebecca Savastio on July 23, 2013.
Saved under Rebecca Savastio, World
Religion to Disappear By 2038 Claims New Study
Author and noted biopsychologist Nigel Barber has completed a new study that
shows Atheism is most prevalent in developed countries, and, according to
his projections, religion will completely disappear by 2041. His findings
are discussed in his new book “Why At... 阅读全帖 |
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w*********r
发帖数: 3382 | 49 Rebuttal by Darwin's children (zz wiki)
Everyone in Darwin's family denied the validity of the story. In 1918,
Darwin's son Francis wrote that "Lady Hope's account of my father's views on
religion is quite untrue. I have publicly accused her of falsehood, but
have not seen any reply. My father's agnostic point of view is given in my
Life and Letters of Charles Darwin, Vol. I., pp. 304–317. You are at
liberty to publish the above statement. Indeed, I shall be glad if you will
do so." In 1922, Dar... 阅读全帖 |
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l**********n
发帖数: 675 | 50 老E，不知你是否曾经详细地了解天堂一词的来历和神从圣经中启示的真正建造的经纶
和计划。正好今天我摘录一些给你看看，当作一份中秋节礼物。
圣经中到底有没有天堂，这是大多数基督徒所关心的问题，也是神学上曾试图探讨的一
个题目。圣经中若有天堂，那天堂在哪里？圣经中若没有天堂，那人最终归到何处？在
每一个基督徒的心中，对将来的归宿都有其认定。这一个认定构成了他信仰的一部分，
也深深地影响他在地上的生活态度。对许多基督徒而言，这一个归宿无疑就是「天堂」
—对永世福乐的一个模糊的代名词。甚至于不识主名的人，也对「基督徒将来要上天堂
」的说法，耳熟能详。然而，当我们回顾基督教的历史时，却发现从初世纪至今，能根
据圣经而深入探讨「天堂」的，竟如凤毛麟角。「天堂」是有圣经根据的信仰真理？抑
或是诗人的憧憬？在圣经的末了，神计划完成时，什么是人最终的归宿？是天堂吗？是
地狱吗？或是圣经所记载的圣城—新耶路撒冷？
照着圣经的启示，圣城「新耶路撒冷」才是基督徒在永世里的归宿，也是神根据祂的计
划所建造的结晶。神一直将祂自己以生命的方式分赐到祂所拣选的人里面，使他们有祂
的生命和性情，并作祂团体的彰显。这个团体... 阅读全帖 |
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