c*********r
发帖数: 19468 | 1 TL SH-AWD
9-3 Turbo X
S60R
MazdaSpeed 6
Passat R36
Taurus SHO |
N****8
发帖数: 253 | |
W*******d
发帖数: 446 | 3 1.R36
2.93X
3.MS6
4.S60r
5. TL
6. SHO
【在 c*********r 的大作中提到】
: TL SH-AWD
: 9-3 Turbo X
: S60R
: MazdaSpeed 6
: Passat R36
: Taurus SHO
|
m*********r
发帖数: 4692 | 4 用啥标准rank啊?rank哪一年的阿，呵呵
【在 c*********r 的大作中提到】
: TL SH-AWD
: 9-3 Turbo X
: S60R
: MazdaSpeed 6
: Passat R36
: Taurus SHO
|
b***i
发帖数: 10018 | 5 新SHO有365hp呢，就是不知道有多重
【在 W*******d 的大作中提到】
: 1.R36
: 2.93X
: 3.MS6
: 4.S60r
: 5. TL
: 6. SHO
|
m*********8
发帖数: 1018 | 6 1.9-3X
2.R36
3.S60R
4.MS6
5.SHO
6.TL |
c*********r
发帖数: 19468 | 7 you can use your own criterion and describe it
about the model year, is there anything confusing at all?
...
【在 m*********r 的大作中提到】
: 用啥标准rank啊?rank哪一年的阿，呵呵
|
c*********r
发帖数: 19468 | 8 why do you guys put the SHO at such an awkward position?
don't you think it has the most advanced & powerful engine in this group?
and about the TL SH-AWD, it has double-wishbone at front and sports the most
advanced AWD system in this group (the only one with left-right torque
vectoring)
why do you think it should be at the bottom?
just curious. could you please describe your criterion?
【在 m*********8 的大作中提到】
: 1.9-3X
: 2.R36
: 3.S60R
: 4.MS6
: 5.SHO
: 6.TL
|
m*********8
发帖数: 1018 | 9 我纯粹按个人爱好排的.
就是你把这些放一起,哪辆是我愿意买的.
真按我心中科技水平的顺序,应该是:
1.TL
2.SHO
3.9-3X
4.S60R
5.R36
6.MS6
就像我承认BMW或许从某些科技上说比Jaguar进步,我在购买时却永远优先Jaguar的道理
一样. |
c*********r
发帖数: 19468 | 10
I see
btw
by technology, I think the 9-3 Turbo X & the S60R will be at the bottom
the SHO, the R36 & the MS6 got DI engines
the R36 got a DCT
the TL got a torque vectoring system
the TL & the MS6 got double-wishbone front suspensions
what the 9-3 Turbo X got is just an eLSD (not really comparable with DI, DCT
or torque vectoring in terms of technological significance)
what the S60R got is...nothing
【在 m*********8 的大作中提到】
: 我纯粹按个人爱好排的.
: 就是你把这些放一起,哪辆是我愿意买的.
: 真按我心中科技水平的顺序,应该是:
: 1.TL
: 2.SHO
: 3.9-3X
: 4.S60R
: 5.R36
: 6.MS6
: 就像我承认BMW或许从某些科技上说比Jaguar进步,我在购买时却永远优先Jaguar的道理
|
|
|
m*********8
发帖数: 1018 | 11 现在出新的MS6了?
DCT
【在 c*********r 的大作中提到】
:
: I see
: btw
: by technology, I think the 9-3 Turbo X & the S60R will be at the bottom
: the SHO, the R36 & the MS6 got DI engines
: the R36 got a DCT
: the TL got a torque vectoring system
: the TL & the MS6 got double-wishbone front suspensions
: what the 9-3 Turbo X got is just an eLSD (not really comparable with DI, DCT
: or torque vectoring in terms of technological significance)
|
m*********8
发帖数: 1018 | 12 Turbo X有four-wheel steering吗?
【在 m*********8 的大作中提到】
: 现在出新的MS6了?
:
: DCT
|
m*********r
发帖数: 4692 | 13 老是想到老SHO,还有新MS6出来了吗,俺其实想要Focus RS WRC AWD,蓝绿都行
TL
SHO
R36
93-x
S60R
MS6
【在 c*********r 的大作中提到】
: you can use your own criterion and describe it
: about the model year, is there anything confusing at all?
: ...
|
b***i
发帖数: 10018 | 14 为什么只排这些车？非典型awd?
【在 c*********r 的大作中提到】
: TL SH-AWD
: 9-3 Turbo X
: S60R
: MazdaSpeed 6
: Passat R36
: Taurus SHO
|
c*********r
发帖数: 19468 | 15 I haven't heard of it yet...
and it won't be much different from the old car if there's one
【在 m*********8 的大作中提到】
: 现在出新的MS6了?
:
: DCT
|
c*********r
发帖数: 19468 | 16 that's not active 4WS, so, no big deal
【在 m*********8 的大作中提到】
: Turbo X有four-wheel steering吗?
|
c*********r
发帖数: 19468 | 17 yes
FWD-based
traverse engine & transmission
the rear wheels driven by a coupling instead of a real center diff
【在 b***i 的大作中提到】
: 为什么只排这些车？非典型awd?
|
b***i
发帖数: 10018 | 18 我不是很懂。wiki上的分类make sense吗？
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-wheel_drive
Center differential with mechanical lock, or other torque transfer features:
STi
Torsen center differential:
Audi quattro
Non-locking center differential:
Multiple-clutch systems:
SH-AWD
Evo
GTR
Saab XWD
Clutch pack coupling:
BMW
Infiniti
MS6
Porsche 911 4
Off-road drive: |
c*********r
发帖数: 19468 | 19 crap...
features:
【在 b***i 的大作中提到】
: 我不是很懂。wiki上的分类make sense吗？
: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-wheel_drive
: Center differential with mechanical lock, or other torque transfer features:
: STi
: Torsen center differential:
: Audi quattro
: Non-locking center differential:
: Multiple-clutch systems:
: SH-AWD
: Evo
|
b***i
发帖数: 10018 | 20 那应该怎么分类? 网上有类似介绍吗？
【在 c*********r 的大作中提到】
: crap...
:
: features:
|
|
|
c*********r
发帖数: 19468 | 21 if you ask me to classify them, I'll do it this way:
1. AWD w/center diff
1.1 AWD w/open center diff
1.1.1 AWD w/bevel-gear open center diff
power split ratio (normal): 50:50
limited slip mechanism: ABS (if any)
examples: many SUVs w/o center diff lock
1.1.2 AWD w/planetary-gear open center diff
power split ratio (normal): fixed & biasing towards one side, usually the
rear wheels
limited slip mechanism: ABS (if any)
example: E550 4Matic
1.2 AWD w/lockable center diff (but no limited slip mechani
【在 b***i 的大作中提到】
: 那应该怎么分类? 网上有类似介绍吗？
|
y*******n
发帖数: 10103 | 22 这么多字不是现码的吧，要是现码的话太狠了
【在 c*********r 的大作中提到】
: if you ask me to classify them, I'll do it this way:
: 1. AWD w/center diff
: 1.1 AWD w/open center diff
: 1.1.1 AWD w/bevel-gear open center diff
: power split ratio (normal): 50:50
: limited slip mechanism: ABS (if any)
: examples: many SUVs w/o center diff lock
: 1.1.2 AWD w/planetary-gear open center diff
: power split ratio (normal): fixed & biasing towards one side, usually the
: rear wheels
|
y*******n
发帖数: 10103 | 23 without central diff, 在四轮付着力都良好的情况下，动力肯定是只能100% or 绝大
部分传递到前后轴其中一个的吧？ |
c*m
发帖数: 836 | 24 我记得比较老的车，稍微高级点儿的都是double wish bone, 怎么现在越来越少了，是
成本问题？BMW不需要控制成本吧
most
【在 c*********r 的大作中提到】
: why do you guys put the SHO at such an awkward position?
: don't you think it has the most advanced & powerful engine in this group?
: and about the TL SH-AWD, it has double-wishbone at front and sports the most
: advanced AWD system in this group (the only one with left-right torque
: vectoring)
: why do you think it should be at the bottom?
: just curious. could you please describe your criterion?
|
y*******n
发帖数: 10103 | 25 保时捷也是MacPherson strut
【在 c*m 的大作中提到】
: 我记得比较老的车，稍微高级点儿的都是double wish bone, 怎么现在越来越少了，是
: 成本问题？BMW不需要控制成本吧
:
: most
|
c*m
发帖数: 836 | 26 谁能讲讲macpherson有什么不可替代的优势？
【在 y*******n 的大作中提到】
: 保时捷也是MacPherson strut
|
y*******n
发帖数: 10103 | 27 我只想到一个unsprung weight比Double A小。
【在 c*m 的大作中提到】
: 谁能讲讲macpherson有什么不可替代的优势？
|
f********m
发帖数: 8397 | 28 none of my type, really
【在 c*********r 的大作中提到】
: TL SH-AWD
: 9-3 Turbo X
: S60R
: MazdaSpeed 6
: Passat R36
: Taurus SHO
|
c*m
发帖数: 836 | 29 这个好像有点勉强啊
【在 y*******n 的大作中提到】
: 我只想到一个unsprung weight比Double A小。
|
y*******n
发帖数: 10103 | 30 理论上当然是doubleA好，看F1赛车就知道。
但具体跟厂商的传统也有关系吧。
【在 c*m 的大作中提到】
: 这个好像有点勉强啊
|
|
|
d*****i
发帖数: 1078 | 31 我觉得理论上肯定是double wishbone好把....但是可能也有重量体积成本考虑....bmw
现在好像就7/x5/x6是double wishbone别的都是strut |
c*********r
发帖数: 19468 | 32 of course 现码的...
【在 y*******n 的大作中提到】
: 这么多字不是现码的吧，要是现码的话太狠了
|
l**********l
发帖数: 4468 | 33 太牛逼啦。
【在 c*********r 的大作中提到】
: of course 现码的...
|
c*********r
发帖数: 19468 | 34 no
it depends on if you have build-in speed difference for the two ends of your
coupling
for example, the rear wheels are driven by the coupling w/o speed difference
you can actively vector torque between the two axles from 100:0 to x:(100 -
x)
x depends on the tires and the weight distribution of the car
let's say x = 55
if you simplify it, you can also claim it's up to 50:50
anyway, within this range, because the front wheels get more power
so their slip rate is higher than that of the rear wh
【在 y*******n 的大作中提到】
: without central diff, 在四轮付着力都良好的情况下，动力肯定是只能100% or 绝大
: 部分传递到前后轴其中一个的吧？
|
c*********r
发帖数: 19468 | 35 simple, cheap, compact
one thing you should notice: MacPherson's most serious problem: torque steer
that's a problem only for FWDs or FWD-based AWDs with a lot of horsepowers
for RWDs, you don't have driving torque at front, how can you have torque
steer?
【在 c*m 的大作中提到】
: 谁能讲讲macpherson有什么不可替代的优势？
|
y*******n
发帖数: 10103 | 36 太谢谢了，我就是想确认这点。
you must have a big build-in speed difference to allow the system
working all the time, and if you have to transfer a large torque at the same
time
you've gotta really worry about your clutch packs...
so, in the real world, SH-AWD can only do rear-biased power split for a
quite brief period whereas systems with real center diff can reliably work
almost all the time
【在 c*********r 的大作中提到】
: simple, cheap, compact
: one thing you should notice: MacPherson's most serious problem: torque steer
: that's a problem only for FWDs or FWD-based AWDs with a lot of horsepowers
: for RWDs, you don't have driving torque at front, how can you have torque
: steer?
|
b***i
发帖数: 10018 | 37 赞，太详细了。
如果要rank这些sports cars的awd system，你会怎么rank?
rs4, r8, sti, evo, gtr(r35), gtr(r34), gallardo, carrera 4, 911 turbo
【在 c*********r 的大作中提到】
: if you ask me to classify them, I'll do it this way:
: 1. AWD w/center diff
: 1.1 AWD w/open center diff
: 1.1.1 AWD w/bevel-gear open center diff
: power split ratio (normal): 50:50
: limited slip mechanism: ABS (if any)
: examples: many SUVs w/o center diff lock
: 1.1.2 AWD w/planetary-gear open center diff
: power split ratio (normal): fixed & biasing towards one side, usually the
: rear wheels
|
c*********r
发帖数: 19468 | 38
let's divide them into two groups
a) sports cars: R8, Gallardo, Carrera 4, 911 Turbo, R34, R35
b) high performance sedans (or hatchbacks, wagons): RS4, STI, Evo
for group a, you need AWD to help put the power down on the ground
using a coupling is the best choice here
it's light but still does the job well (it can effectively route some power
to the front wheels when it's needed)
actually, all the cars in this group you mentioned are using this type of
AWD
the R34, the R35, & the 911 Turbo are
【在 b***i 的大作中提到】
: 赞，太详细了。
: 如果要rank这些sports cars的awd system，你会怎么rank?
: rs4, r8, sti, evo, gtr(r35), gtr(r34), gallardo, carrera 4, 911 turbo
|
b***i
发帖数: 10018 | 39 wow, really great stuff here. Thanks a lot!
power
【在 c*********r 的大作中提到】
:
: let's divide them into two groups
: a) sports cars: R8, Gallardo, Carrera 4, 911 Turbo, R34, R35
: b) high performance sedans (or hatchbacks, wagons): RS4, STI, Evo
: for group a, you need AWD to help put the power down on the ground
: using a coupling is the best choice here
: it's light but still does the job well (it can effectively route some power
: to the front wheels when it's needed)
: actually, all the cars in this group you mentioned are using this type of
: AWD
|
y*******n
发帖数: 10103 | 40 赞，
RS4的open diff如果像subaru 低端手动车型那样open diff + viscous coupling效果
会好点吧。
power
【在 c*********r 的大作中提到】
:
: let's divide them into two groups
: a) sports cars: R8, Gallardo, Carrera 4, 911 Turbo, R34, R35
: b) high performance sedans (or hatchbacks, wagons): RS4, STI, Evo
: for group a, you need AWD to help put the power down on the ground
: using a coupling is the best choice here
: it's light but still does the job well (it can effectively route some power
: to the front wheels when it's needed)
: actually, all the cars in this group you mentioned are using this type of
: AWD
|
|
|
T*******o
发帖数: 1050 | 41 Is R36 available in US? Only see Passat VR6. |
c*********r
发帖数: 19468 | 42 open diff + viscous coupling = viscous LSD
this one is ok for the rear axle, but not very good for the front
【在 y*******n 的大作中提到】
: 赞，
: RS4的open diff如果像subaru 低端手动车型那样open diff + viscous coupling效果
: 会好点吧。
:
: power
|
c*********r
发帖数: 19468 | 43 not available here...
【在 T*******o 的大作中提到】
: Is R36 available in US? Only see Passat VR6.
|
