f*****t
发帖数: 106 | 1 发现200NL也一堆fish啊。。。
升了两个月了，感觉不错。
而且发现一旦upgrade，确实没法再回去玩小的了。 |
|
f*****t
发帖数: 106 | 2 一个小发现，200nl bluff的人更多了。。。
当然只要静下心来，还是很容易分辨的。。 |
|
h*****s
发帖数: 29 | 3 大家好，我在这个论坛潜水很久了，也从大家的讨论里涨了不少姿势。前两天做了个视
频，在ignition（原bovada）200NL尝试游戏每一手牌。第一次录制，还是有点紧张和
羞射：）希望大家多提宝贵意见。
最近有打算做一系列的扑克视频，大家有什么想看的，我争取在自己实力和能力所及范
围满足大家的需求。 希望做出的视频能给大家带来快乐，同时借视频和大家多多交流
牌技。
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z1fnxc-aS0&t=789s |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 4 “如果你的智商能让你高中毕业的话, 你应该是能赢200nl的（如果你努力的话）大多数
的玩家在200nl以下还是根本就不会玩，很多高手都认为，200nl是最后一个几乎每个玩
家都是不会玩的级别。“
我们都自勉吧。。。
再赞一个fcf.. 太牛了。。。 |
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f*f
发帖数: 121 | 5 I played a little bit of rush poker at 100nl and 200nl level. 100nl seemed
pretty easy, players generally playing too tight there, so I would just open
almost every CO/BTN and play position after flop. 200nl seemed much
tougher as it is the highest level right now, I see many players who usually
play 5/10+ in there messing around, it's much harder to apply pressure
against these players for several reason:
1) 200bb there really doesn't mean much to them
2) As I know them, they probably have |
|
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 6 哈哈，你不要笑哈，你肯定搞错了，俺们这里说100NL，实际上就是0.5/1NL，和你的是
一个stake，因为一般是100BB buy-in max，所以简称100NL。同理，200NL。
俺目前才玩50NL，比你的还小，其他几个人主要玩100NL或者25NL的，玩200NL的常客好
像还没有。
不过这里的人主要都是在FTP上玩RUSH poker，非常快速，1张桌子相当于4，5张其他正
常桌子同时打吧，所以一天3，4个小时下来，2张桌子，1000，2000把以上家常便饭。
对了，你能否帮俺们版写个关于UB的简介性东西(一些FAQ类问题)，类似置顶的俺写的
那个FTP入门，这样帮助俺们丰富版面内容，多谢。
此外，经常来灌水。
了。 |
|
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 7 你闹笑话啦，哈哈，真是100/200NL的，就是俗称的流鼻血(nose bleeding)级别的了，
这个级别的玩家，全世界加起来可能都还没有咱们这个版的人多。
咱们版最牛的职业玩家fcf，一年进账几十万，也就是到1000NL(5/10NL HU)这个级别，
象他这样的，在老中里面凤毛麟角，在全世界也是极少数。
想咱们这种业余玩的，能突破200NL就已经很了不起了。 |
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d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 8 本来不觉得啥，今天降级打回100nl，才意识到这里的200nl打得特别凶，高频的vpip／
pfr，2barrel，floating都是经常性的。前几天，哥还纳闷儿呢，为什么，上了200nl
，就经常over play tptk／over pair, 来payoff那些讨巧牌，觉得自己越打越秀逗了
，回到了扔不了牌的节奏。
但实际上，哥回顾历史，也有认怂的阶段，结果招来的就是被更多的push，这尼玛尺度
真的很难掌握。看来哥年纪大了，不适合高对抗的节奏，每个session上下少则2／3，
多到6／7个buyin的swing，着实让人不舒服，再加上时不时出现cooler或者suckout，
人很容易，从崩溃的边缘直接崩溃，矮马～～
看来今年升级的步伐要缓一缓啦～～还是从操哥最擅长的micro tourney捕鱼的旧业吧
～～ |
|
n*******y
发帖数: 3337 | 9 【 以下文字转载自 TexasHoldem 讨论区 】
发信人: fcf (fcf), 信区: TexasHoldem
标 题: 扑克玩家的成长
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Feb 7 10:58:11 2010, 美东)
转发一个我几个月以前写的东西
扑克玩家的成长
这是我对扑克玩家的成长一点心得，不一定都是对的，总是有特例的，但我想对大
多数人来说是差不多的。
级别1：
刚刚学会打牌的规则，没有任何技巧的概念，打牌基本是乱玩。
级别2：
看了一点资料，可能看了一本书，知道了pot odds, position, 知道了打牌要tight
aggressive, 不过其实并不懂为什么， 也不知道怎么样打才叫tight aggressive, 打
牌的技巧基本只知道preflop, flop, 如果问问题的话，一般只记得自己有什么牌，
flop上有什么牌，对每个人的动作只记得是bet/check/raise, 不在意下注的大小，
大家的位置，stack 大小，等等。这时候记得的牌多半是AA/KK 这种牌。
级别3：
玩了上万手牌了，输了一些，这是一个分界线，有些人输了就... 阅读全帖 |
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p*******p
发帖数: 13670 | 10 yah, but what they are talking about is 200nl 6-max game....
of
I
level |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 11 呵呵，70，30这个比例不错，不过应该是反过来，打牌只要是你不控制发牌的，运气就
永远存在。在高手之间的对决中(假设技术接近)，这个运气比例可能还要大点。
用WSOP的最后结果来说明毛驴运气的重要有点以偏概全了，在那么6000多人的比赛里能
活到最后，无可置疑，运气的确比什么都重要。其实平时的一个上千人的比赛就可以知
道，关键时候没有几把落后反败为胜，或者连续赢coin flips什么的，很难赢下一个比
赛来，而且很难赢到大钱，因为比赛的奖金分配极其不平衡，前几名拿掉大多数钱，即
使十几名也相对没有什么钱。
那为什么还说运气长期来讲会平衡掉呢？呵呵，其实你看看这些pros(Gold和Yang根本
排不上号)，基本上都不是靠打个把大比赛“中彩”过日子的，这个只是他们的锦上添
花，他们平时的饭碗都是至少$100/200NL，甚至10K/20K NL的cash game过日子的，比
如Kenny Tran，对一般只关心tournament的牌手陌生吧？没错，他至今只拿过一条小金
手链，还是去年才拿的，可他在cash game里面的名声很大。又比如tom "durrrr" dwan
，截至目前 |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 12 bellagio最高的不止，在bobby's room，那里据说经常是最小$100/200NL，最高有$1K/
2K的，基本上随时去都能看见那些名流，呵呵。
25
6- |
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t*********d
发帖数: 3398 | 13 更正：
昨晚9点打到12点， 200NL, 先输了2个mini buy in (2 x $40）， 第一把忘了， 第二
把9dTd bet 3bb UTG, cut off called, flop 5d2dQs, both checked, turn Ks,
bothchecked, river, Js, I hit str8t, bet 10bb, cut of raised to 30bb, I
called, he showed 5s7s. |
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p*******p
发帖数: 13670 | 14 3000 就去打200NL? orz,你太牛了
rake
sick |
|
p*******p
发帖数: 13670 | 15 我3000打100NL,我都觉得自己是under roll了,如果输到2000我马上会去打50,
越是高的level,bank roll要越大,因为里面人太crazy,玩whole stack不当回事儿的
我觉得有10000玩200NL勉强差不多 |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 16 i don't remember the exact %, but it sucks to play lower stakes.
higher stake doesn't necessarily mean higher rake, because it's capped at $x
(can't remember X), which means you may pay the same rake for 200NL or
5000NL.
this is why you must have rakeback to play cash games.
no, rush and regular cash games are the same. |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 17 i feel the same as 30stand.
for 200NL or lower stake players, it's too much and there's no magic. or, we
don't really digest well with all existing learning materials. |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 18 55这里最多是个bluff catcher，太弱了，完全不值得。
micro stake真的目标可以设高一点，主要问题其实都是自己的leaks。
fcf的一句话比较让俺开窍，之前俺觉得2009 small stakes (比如100NL, 200NL) best
grinders挺不错的(比如5BB/100，几十万手一年)，结果他老说其实这些人都是因为升
不上去而已。 查了一下，还真是，一尝试升级就给揍得鼻青脸肿。
BB hits pair of 8. |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 19 正常业余玩家(一周玩几次，多桌，非天天上班型)，一年也就是100K手左右，rush多一
点。
1BB/100(1000BB)的话，其实非常有限的收入，加上bonus+rake翻一倍，200NL也就是一
年一万以内。
扑克对于绝大多数人，都是指望不上的，只是娱乐别输光了裤衩而已。
象fcf那样的太凤毛鳞角了。 |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 20 yes, i know what you're talking about.
at such micro levels (below 200NL), i believe our biggest enemy is ourselves
or routine leaks. we tend to give hard earned money away too easily and too
often with hands like over pair or TPTK (a single pair hand after all) when
things apparently go wrong. tilting is another one, which costs us (and even
unnoticed) more than bad beats. we make a lot of hero calls too not because
we have good read, but emotional.
my monthly chart typically goes like this, fi |
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y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 21 should say very nice job. Since you play 25NL last year, it means you get
around 400buyins.
I play cash game recently, it is not easy job, need patience to grind that one buyin.
The only way to get more money is going up levels. King, I guess you can crush 200NL sooner or later.
to be frank, 11k without tax in usa is still a big chunk of income, consider almost 15k pre-tax income.
fact
ll
far |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 22 11k 还要看花多少时间..
一天一小时.. 很不错.. 一天俩小时, 凑和... 再多, 没十么意思了...如果hourly你挣得还没minimum wage 多, 而且poker变成grind instead of hobby, 不玩也罢, 或者少玩点..
one buyin.
crush 200NL sooner or later.
consider almost 15k pre-tax income. |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 23 well, you can sign up with their affilate poker sites, and after XXX hands,
get it for free.
but honestly, i won't take the hassles, it's only $50 for small stake
version, shared by two, cheap enough.
small version is enough, it supports cash games up to 100NL and small
tourneys, unless you play 200NL+. and even that, you can always upgrade to
pro version for another $30.
It |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 24 呵呵，不要对革命失去信心。
其实俺和FTP一样，希望通过rush bonus week能够提高长期玩家的数量，rush周之前，
一般黄金时间(美东8，9点左右)，象25NL，50NL这样最popular的stake，也就是300左
右的active玩家(不算sit out，wipe out的，呵呵)，这个pool还是太小，也就是30桌
，长期打的，要不了一周大家就很熟悉了，也不能连着pop re-steal人家3次，5次不是
？象100NL和目前最高的200NL，一般才100多200人，这种pool，还不如去打常规的，至
少read还多一些。
俺一般不会留250BB怎么大stake在桌上，连100BB full buy-in也是最近的事，double
up了肯定cash out再回来，一般人都没有100BB那么多，所以风险较大，如果正好和另
一个大stake碰上冤家牌。说到底，还是积小胜为大胜的道理，咱们有edge，但是并不
是那么大。
ra
K
cuteoff
or
bonus |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 25 holy shit, 200NL next month? lol. |
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c***a
发帖数: 309 | 26 nice profit! my biggest pot was $650 in 200NL, both has $1400+ stack,
contains 5-bet semi bluff, my JJ stands and was a winner. |
|
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 28 yeah, 100BB buy-in, for short, 200NL. |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 29 what! you don't have rakeback? man, stop playing cash games TODAY until
opening a new account with it.
i figure we play about the same amount of rush NL50 every month, you're "
losing" about $300.
as for NL200, i watched some regular (non-rush) fullring games last night,
the player pool there is not big either, about 30 tables. but a lot of them
are multi-tabling, like one guy (rlawod, from south korea) who used to play
regular 50NL with me last year, now he's playing 10 tables at 200NL.
unless |
|
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 31 一年如果每天都坚持花几个小时, 磨个几万美金还是有希望的
if you can make this, you're already WAY above the avg. level, if your
definition of 几 is normal, i.e., 3-5. you can pretty much call yourself a
pro, who can make a basic living solely from poker. and you're definitely in
the top 5% of all players.
88% of players are long-term losers!
remember, the BEST small stake players (they all played 500K+ hands) in 2009
(up to 200NL) made: |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 32 hehe, no, you got me wrong.
what i meant was if the BEST players at these stakes can "only" make 3-4BB/
100 over large number of hands in a year, there got to be a reason. and
another interesting thing from the article is some of them got beaten hard
when they tried to move up just one level, like from 100NL to 200NL.
for FTP, my estimate, the active pool of players at these levels are about
1000. rush at any point of time (~200 unique players), and about 30 regular
tables. surely there're some ... 阅读全帖 |
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f*f
发帖数: 121 | 33 I do believe I can coach an average intelligence person who has a good
attitude and open mind the game in a few months that he/she will be able to
beat nl200 at least marginally.
Most players do not win because they do not take the game seriously. Poker
is deceptively easy, and variance makes good player lose and bad win from
time to time. So most players, especially bad ones, over-estimate their
ability. On an average low stakes live fullring table, probably 6 out of
the 9 players are goin... 阅读全帖 |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 34 你看老大今年一月份的图就知道了，edge极大，从200NL到1000NL，rate都是30BB+/100
以上的，赫赫。
now? |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 35 i have 1.11.04, can you:
1) get a screenshot for me? (any trash hand)
2) check what options you have below:
thanks a lot! btw, how's your move to 200NL, saw you a few times late night. |
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g**s
发帖数: 1114 | 36 I played in 200NL to test some water as always, won a buy-in and come back :
) Will go back and fourth until I feel 100% comfortable over there.
night. |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 37 those guys play seriously for a living (and maybe even a decent one), hehe,
online 1/2NL is not live 1/2NL, or should be something like $5/10 in live.
these days not many americans have a 5K-10K roll for 200NL, they may take
shots with a shorter one but variance can kill them easily even if their skills
are not bad.
our company does debt collection business, man, so many ppl are struggling
now (good for us), even they're not, like in the old good days, few would
have $5K "spare" money to play po... 阅读全帖 |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 38 calm down, dude, a downswing plus you're adjusting your plays, lessons are
still cheaper than at 200NL, right? |
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s*********r
发帖数: 4210 | 39 Thanks for all analysis provided, I appreciated.
Now to think about it, the low blind size might also played into how I
thought about this hand. If I am in the 200NL game, I would have played
differently. So would these two players. Or maybe they are aggressive by
nature or real good players.
Sometime I have to go with my feeling about other players in a hand. Funny
thing was that couple of hands before this, I was headup against a pair of
Js with Qs. That guy played like AA, and got me swe... 阅读全帖 |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 40 你这家伙又跑200NL去赌博？？？！！！
人家goes现在都老老实实在100NL稳扎稳打，孙楠唱道，你快回来，你快回来......
了， 他竟然call了， 有点意外。 |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 41 熊猫，你太缺bankroll management了，不是开玩笑！！！
扑克不是炒股票，不会让你一夜或者N夜暴发的，一年下来能打出个2，3万真的就是很
不错很不错了，股票玩玩可能就不止这数。
俺猜你这次又是存了$500开打的是不是？呵呵，上来就是200NL，这里goes和AK都让打
回来，人家还是稳扎稳打100NL试着上去的，你倒好。
估计你这次曾经打到过$1500，然后现在在$700徘徊，说对了发包子，呵呵。 |
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p*******p
发帖数: 13670 | 42 今天200NL，cutoff raise 3x，我BB call ， with 22
flop 2K9， 2个黑桃， 我check raise， turn Jc，我pot，river Q spade，我#*&#Q*
$)(#)($*)@ |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 43 as said before:
1) for goes, maybe. but personally i really don't know how much a coach can
help him, even with swings, $2K/month+rakeback is a very hot record for a
100NL player;
2) i watched some sample coaching materials from 2+2, some stuff is really
made up for "coaching";
3) more importantly, i have a feeling that the whole online player pool is
shrinking big. goes ranks 29th on rakebackpros.com, which is big since FTP
endorses it, imagine how many "more" players are really playing 100NL, ... 阅读全帖 |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 44 This is a serious issue. the pool is drying and fishes are leaving. Like
the guy I met at AC. He use to play 30$ sngs on PS. He turned to live
because making money on-line is not as easy as before. We need to open the
gate for all the US players even though that means regulation from the
government. If they make it difficult to deposit money, sooner or later only
the people that are withdrawing $$ would be left. The next thing you know,
people who used to withdraw money will not be able to any... 阅读全帖 |
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p*******p
发帖数: 13670 | 45 我是从来不信coach这种东西的,说穿了,coach也玩holdem,他为啥要把自己的敌人变强?
而且说不定故意coach你的时候给你点不正确的思想,弄几个后门,以后和你打可以make
easy money
can
200NL |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 46 难的是bank roll and try to stay away from good regs. |
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L****n
发帖数: 490 | 47 Is this RUSH NL200 or regular NL200 |
|
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g**s
发帖数: 1114 | 49 good to know. how many tables do you play? why not rush? |
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f*****t
发帖数: 106 | 50 just one table,because I am a fish. |
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