W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 1 i saw a lot of people have posted here before. Where are they? | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 2 as far as i can tell, most of them either:
1) liked poker as a hobby, easy to learn but not really into it, you know,
home game type, no diff. than other games;
2) tried hard for a short while, couldn't make $, then quit;
3) still playing, but not much or post much.
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: i saw a lot of people have posted here before. Where are they?
| g**s
发帖数: 1114 | 3 只有fryking是铁杆牌迷，再这版上已经N年了吧。 | A**U
发帖数: 1116 | 4 4) busy making and raising babies.
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: as far as i can tell, most of them either:
: 1) liked poker as a hobby, easy to learn but not really into it, you know,
: home game type, no diff. than other games;
: 2) tried hard for a short while, couldn't make $, then quit;
: 3) still playing, but not much or post much.
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 6 it's tough...
to be successful in poker, one needs to put in a lot of efforts, and in fact
, one has to be able to move up quickly. otherwise sooner or later, they'll
quit or semi-quit.
i myself am at a crossroads too, i made $11K last year and about $4K so far
this year, it becomes more and more like a "chicken rib" to me since i got
so much to do elsewhere.
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: we need more watering
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 7 升级把. 你不是说3个月后升 NL100 吗?
我在NL50 挣到5千就试试NL100. 现在两千差一点.. | h*******s
发帖数: 3932 | 8 Nice job. Mostly rush or regular full table/6-max?
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: 升级把. 你不是说3个月后升 NL100 吗?
: 我在NL50 挣到5千就试试NL100. 现在两千差一点..
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 9 with my current run? lol...
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: 升级把. 你不是说3个月后升 NL100 吗?
: 我在NL50 挣到5千就试试NL100. 现在两千差一点..
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 10 bad luck will go away, good luck will run out. 最后还是看打得好不好..
今天run below ev 还了以前的债.. 好不容易保住NL50不败. last min run..
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: with my current run? lol...
| | | W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 11 i only play full ring
【在 h*******s 的大作中提到】
: Nice job. Mostly rush or regular full table/6-max?
| c**********l
发帖数: 606 | 12
【在 A**U 的大作中提到】
: 4) busy making and raising babies.
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 13 i like making babies but not raising them. is that ok? | y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 14 should say very nice job. Since you play 25NL last year, it means you get
around 400buyins.
I play cash game recently, it is not easy job, need patience to grind that one buyin.
The only way to get more money is going up levels. King, I guess you can crush 200NL sooner or later.
to be frank, 11k without tax in usa is still a big chunk of income, consider almost 15k pre-tax income.
fact
ll
far
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: it's tough...
: to be successful in poker, one needs to put in a lot of efforts, and in fact
: , one has to be able to move up quickly. otherwise sooner or later, they'll
: quit or semi-quit.
: i myself am at a crossroads too, i made $11K last year and about $4K so far
: this year, it becomes more and more like a "chicken rib" to me since i got
: so much to do elsewhere.
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 15 11k 还要看花多少时间..
一天一小时.. 很不错.. 一天俩小时, 凑和... 再多, 没十么意思了...如果hourly你挣得还没minimum wage 多, 而且poker变成grind instead of hobby, 不玩也罢, 或者少玩点..
one buyin.
crush 200NL sooner or later.
consider almost 15k pre-tax income.
【在 y********n 的大作中提到】
: should say very nice job. Since you play 25NL last year, it means you get
: around 400buyins.
: I play cash game recently, it is not easy job, need patience to grind that one buyin.
: The only way to get more money is going up levels. King, I guess you can crush 200NL sooner or later.
: to be frank, 11k without tax in usa is still a big chunk of income, consider almost 15k pre-tax income.
:
: fact
: ll
: far
| y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 16 1 hour/day, to win 1 buyin, it is almost impossible.
NL cash game has some variance in it. Somedays, you win. You will lose in
certain days also.
From my opinion, it is a kind of grind for poker. Especially playing NL cash
game or sng, because even you get a stack in NL cash game, you only get 50$
-200$.
Even big name like durrrr is grinding there also, the only thing diferent is
that their stake is higher, and more variance.
I do not know exactly, but if you can grind and win from poker, it is
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: 11k 还要看花多少时间..
: 一天一小时.. 很不错.. 一天俩小时, 凑和... 再多, 没十么意思了...如果hourly你挣得还没minimum wage 多, 而且poker变成grind instead of hobby, 不玩也罢, 或者少玩点..
:
: one buyin.
: crush 200NL sooner or later.
: consider almost 15k pre-tax income.
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 17 是很难.. 所以升不了级真没社么意思... poker 打久了成grind,没有fun了, 如果投入和产出不成正比何苦呢...能升就升, 升不了就少打点, entertainment为主..不过还是试一试..
cash
50$
is
【在 y********n 的大作中提到】
: 1 hour/day, to win 1 buyin, it is almost impossible.
: NL cash game has some variance in it. Somedays, you win. You will lose in
: certain days also.
: From my opinion, it is a kind of grind for poker. Especially playing NL cash
: game or sng, because even you get a stack in NL cash game, you only get 50$
: -200$.
: Even big name like durrrr is grinding there also, the only thing diferent is
: that their stake is higher, and more variance.
: I do not know exactly, but if you can grind and win from poker, it is
| y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 18 exactly.
but go up level is not easy at all. some poker coach can not make any money
for years.
Lots of stuff in poker, I am a kind of new to this game. I guess I will
continue digging into the game, and see how far I can go.
入和产出不成正比何苦呢...能升就升, 升不了就少打点, entertainment为主..不过还
是试一试..
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: 是很难.. 所以升不了级真没社么意思... poker 打久了成grind,没有fun了, 如果投入和产出不成正比何苦呢...能升就升, 升不了就少打点, entertainment为主..不过还是试一试..
:
: cash
: 50$
: is
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 19 as far as i can see, it's grinding for me, yes, in the end, i made some $,
but time invested was too much.
as for the fun part, i don't know, do durrrr, PA, ivey, gus and others find
fun in the game any more? at least i'm confused.
how many players out there are really like "hey, i got time today, i don't
care about losing 1K...", "i played last night just for fun, and won $2K..."
, "i won't be able to play for 2 months, so let's forget about it for a
while"...
grind+fun (% wise), i don't know i
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: 是很难.. 所以升不了级真没社么意思... poker 打久了成grind,没有fun了, 如果投入和产出不成正比何苦呢...能升就升, 升不了就少打点, entertainment为主..不过还是试一试..
:
: cash
: 50$
: is
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 20 grind 和fun的区别其实就是你是不是feel obligated to play. 以前我玩on-line
game, at the beginning i play a lot and it was fun. then I leveled up and
joined a guild to raid. After a while(well actually a long while) it become a job because I HAVE to play. even though i don't play much more than before. and it took the fun completely out of it and i quit. (actually i quit multiple times. Went back every time but still burn out when it became a grind.)
如果poker是grind, 就要看时间的投如和产出了..把它当part time job看.. 你会做多少hourly rat | | | y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 21 yeah. Even gboro780 is the same, he grinds everyday. Does he enjoy the poker
or the money?
I sometimes just throw some money into the water to find some new game to
play. Fun is hard to say, if we continue losing money, we will lose our
patience pretty quickly.
Therefore, I still think we need beat the game, and win, then maybe we can
enjoy more.
find
."
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: as far as i can see, it's grinding for me, yes, in the end, i made some $,
: but time invested was too much.
: as for the fun part, i don't know, do durrrr, PA, ivey, gus and others find
: fun in the game any more? at least i'm confused.
: how many players out there are really like "hey, i got time today, i don't
: care about losing 1K...", "i played last night just for fun, and won $2K..."
: , "i won't be able to play for 2 months, so let's forget about it for a
: while"...
: grind+fun (% wise), i don't know i
| s*********k
发帖数: 1989 | 22 Do you smoke?!
become a job because I HAVE to play. even though i don't play much more than
before. and it took the fun completely out of it and i quit. (actually i
quit multiple times. Went back every time but still burn out when it became
a grind.)
多少hourly rate的part time job. 太低就没意思了..
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: grind 和fun的区别其实就是你是不是feel obligated to play. 以前我玩on-line
: game, at the beginning i play a lot and it was fun. then I leveled up and
: joined a guild to raid. After a while(well actually a long while) it become a job because I HAVE to play. even though i don't play much more than before. and it took the fun completely out of it and i quit. (actually i quit multiple times. Went back every time but still burn out when it became a grind.)
: 如果poker是grind, 就要看时间的投如和产出了..把它当part time job看.. 你会做多少hourly rat
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 23 well, i guess the fun comes from whether we can win or beat the game (
whatever level it might be), or i can't imagine someone tells me "hey, i
spent 3 hours today and lost $500, still happy" or "i ended up even, you
know, just for a fun afternoon..." or "i enjoyed it because i made good
moves, but i didn't make any $..."
poker comes with ups and downs, and then unavoidable frustrations. we can
control our emotions to some degree but not ideally.
after a while, poker is all about making similar
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: grind 和fun的区别其实就是你是不是feel obligated to play. 以前我玩on-line
: game, at the beginning i play a lot and it was fun. then I leveled up and
: joined a guild to raid. After a while(well actually a long while) it become a job because I HAVE to play. even though i don't play much more than before. and it took the fun completely out of it and i quit. (actually i quit multiple times. Went back every time but still burn out when it became a grind.)
: 如果poker是grind, 就要看时间的投如和产出了..把它当part time job看.. 你会做多少hourly rat
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 24 summerbrook. you have no idea what i am talking about. you don't have a goal
like me and fryking every month. You don't have to play everyday to reach
ironman. You screw around play game that you are completely clueless about
just to have fun. It is good for you as a hobby. But don't act like you
remotely understand me or fryking and our problem with grinding.
【在 s*********k 的大作中提到】
: Do you smoke?!
:
: become a job because I HAVE to play. even though i don't play much more than
: before. and it took the fun completely out of it and i quit. (actually i
: quit multiple times. Went back every time but still burn out when it became
: a grind.)
: 多少hourly rate的part time job. 太低就没意思了..
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 25 Yes it is still fun when you have a hope to level up. If that hope is gone
completely then the reality sets in and it becomes a total grind. Some people can enjoy that, most can't like me. I would have to start look at whether it worth the time and effort with the profit.
Of course if the money is good, then it still worth it. It just does not make sense to work 8 hours a day for example 50$+ an hour and come back sit in front of computer for 3-4 hours grinding and getting 7$ an hour (like work
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: well, i guess the fun comes from whether we can win or beat the game (
: whatever level it might be), or i can't imagine someone tells me "hey, i
: spent 3 hours today and lost $500, still happy" or "i ended up even, you
: know, just for a fun afternoon..." or "i enjoyed it because i made good
: moves, but i didn't make any $..."
: poker comes with ups and downs, and then unavoidable frustrations. we can
: control our emotions to some degree but not ideally.
: after a while, poker is all about making similar
| s*********k
发帖数: 1989 | 26 ???
goal
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: summerbrook. you have no idea what i am talking about. you don't have a goal
: like me and fryking every month. You don't have to play everyday to reach
: ironman. You screw around play game that you are completely clueless about
: just to have fun. It is good for you as a hobby. But don't act like you
: remotely understand me or fryking and our problem with grinding.
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 27 a short answer is "i do not smoke" if the long answer is too complicated to understand | L****n
发帖数: 490 | 28 what's your bb/100 for NL50? windstormm
Probably you can already move to NL 100 with your winning record, the game
maybe slightly harder. But the profit probably gets 1.5 times than u
currently get in NL50.
btw, do we need to pay tax for the profit. Without tax, it's pretty decent
hourly rate for 5bb-10bb/100 in NL50. | y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 29 I am agree with you. I am also a grinder on low stake, or micro stake.
I am totally fine with it now, since I know my skill level is poor currently
. I reduce my playing time now, and spend more time on studying the game,
include reading one book thoroughly and read 2p2 more frequently.
I play more cash games and HU games, it will help me to play a ton of hands
in a short span. I believe MTT is situational play, not poker play, if I can
blend with my post play into MTT, then I have some new edge
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: Yes it is still fun when you have a hope to level up. If that hope is gone
: completely then the reality sets in and it becomes a total grind. Some people can enjoy that, most can't like me. I would have to start look at whether it worth the time and effort with the profit.
: Of course if the money is good, then it still worth it. It just does not make sense to work 8 hours a day for example 50$+ an hour and come back sit in front of computer for 3-4 hours grinding and getting 7$ an hour (like work
| y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 30 I am super happy if I can get 4-5bb/100 in NL50.
As you said, it is pretty decent hourly rate. My record shows my rate drops
to 0.8bb/100 now. It sucks.
But it is good also, it indicates me that I still have great room to improve
, I have potentials at least.
(I know I cannot bet and fold on the river, always calling, it is a big
problem for me.)
【在 L****n 的大作中提到】
: what's your bb/100 for NL50? windstormm
: Probably you can already move to NL 100 with your winning record, the game
: maybe slightly harder. But the profit probably gets 1.5 times than u
: currently get in NL50.
: btw, do we need to pay tax for the profit. Without tax, it's pretty decent
: hourly rate for 5bb-10bb/100 in NL50.
| | | W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 31 I am at 10bb/100 at the moment. It has been between 8bb-10bb so far. I think it is at the borderline point where grinding makes sense in a long run if I can't level up. The $$ is not bad hourly, around 30$ an hour playing 2 table 600 hand per hour, if uncle Sam does not come and crack down on us for tax. Adding another table is also possible in the future. The problem is that I am not sure whether I could keep this rate up even though I feel NL50 is very soft.
My bankroll is a bit low for NL100.
【在 L****n 的大作中提到】
: what's your bb/100 for NL50? windstormm
: Probably you can already move to NL 100 with your winning record, the game
: maybe slightly harder. But the profit probably gets 1.5 times than u
: currently get in NL50.
: btw, do we need to pay tax for the profit. Without tax, it's pretty decent
: hourly rate for 5bb-10bb/100 in NL50.
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 32 are you playing full time right now? If that is the case, then my theory does not apply to you. Because it is a job, it is supposed to be boring and tedious like grinding. ^_^
i agree that cash game could help you a lot in poker. i do think your
problem is too loose and too aggressive. You should tighten it up. It is microstake poker and TAG wins the most $$ unless you are exceptional winner, but i don't think you are there yet in cash game.
You should watch how barry greenstein play at HSP.
【在 y********n 的大作中提到】
: I am agree with you. I am also a grinder on low stake, or micro stake.
: I am totally fine with it now, since I know my skill level is poor currently
: . I reduce my playing time now, and spend more time on studying the game,
: include reading one book thoroughly and read 2p2 more frequently.
: I play more cash games and HU games, it will help me to play a ton of hands
: in a short span. I believe MTT is situational play, not poker play, if I can
: blend with my post play into MTT, then I have some new edge
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 33 bet folding > check call > bet call.
It is microstake. most player are weak tight. They usually don't raise river
for bluffs or at least not often enough. I did catch a 3 bet river bluff
today with busted flush draw at NL50. but it is definitely not common.
drops
improve
【在 y********n 的大作中提到】
: I am super happy if I can get 4-5bb/100 in NL50.
: As you said, it is pretty decent hourly rate. My record shows my rate drops
: to 0.8bb/100 now. It sucks.
: But it is good also, it indicates me that I still have great room to improve
: , I have potentials at least.
: (I know I cannot bet and fold on the river, always calling, it is a big
: problem for me.)
| y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 34 I am temporarily full time, but I do not play that much nowadays, around 2
hours per day. Still the result is not bad till now. I need increase my win
rate also, not just sitting there and grinding.
My current goal is just 5k/month, but one year later, my ideal rate should
be 7k/month. two year later, hopefully, it can reach 10k/month mark. This is
fine expectation, because I never study the game seriously, but now I go to
basics again, and become more serious this time.
Because it is a job, it
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: are you playing full time right now? If that is the case, then my theory does not apply to you. Because it is a job, it is supposed to be boring and tedious like grinding. ^_^
: i agree that cash game could help you a lot in poker. i do think your
: problem is too loose and too aggressive. You should tighten it up. It is microstake poker and TAG wins the most $$ unless you are exceptional winner, but i don't think you are there yet in cash game.
: You should watch how barry greenstein play at HSP.
| y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 35 It is a mistake, I do improve now.
I also bluff river now.
Another interesting question is which street to bluff. I guess if you bluff
turn, those guys may have draw, it is hard to make them to fold. However, If
on the river, they can not improve, they have no pair, and facing a big
bet, they will fold some stuff which will not fold on the turn(because of
their draw) but will fold to river bet.
river
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: bet folding > check call > bet call.
: It is microstake. most player are weak tight. They usually don't raise river
: for bluffs or at least not often enough. I did catch a 3 bet river bluff
: today with busted flush draw at NL50. but it is definitely not common.
:
: drops
: improve
| y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 36 i agree that cash game could help you a lot in poker. i do think your
problem is too loose and too aggressive. You should tighten it up. It is
microstake poker and TAG wins the most $$ unless you are exceptional winner,
but i don't think you are there yet in cash game.
Yah, I know it is a losing play, but I do not mind. I guess low stake is
only place I can try something new, and will not lose pants.
All gunk hands is playable if we know how to play it. It needs some
experience to practice it.
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: are you playing full time right now? If that is the case, then my theory does not apply to you. Because it is a job, it is supposed to be boring and tedious like grinding. ^_^
: i agree that cash game could help you a lot in poker. i do think your
: problem is too loose and too aggressive. You should tighten it up. It is microstake poker and TAG wins the most $$ unless you are exceptional winner, but i don't think you are there yet in cash game.
: You should watch how barry greenstein play at HSP.
| d******u
发帖数: 142 | 37 ai... everybody can have different understandings which should not be
judged as right or wrong. i.e. for a frog in a well, it is arguable
whether ppl outside of the well or the frog itself understand the
problem better or worse.
if anybody takes risk-taking as profession, better calculation of risk
will only give him survival, while the only route to the top is the
courage ... always ready to die in the middle.. ready to take the shot
in the dark if needed...
in that sense, your mental bankroll
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: summerbrook. you have no idea what i am talking about. you don't have a goal
: like me and fryking every month. You don't have to play everyday to reach
: ironman. You screw around play game that you are completely clueless about
: just to have fun. It is good for you as a hobby. But don't act like you
: remotely understand me or fryking and our problem with grinding.
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 38 I agree with some of your logic but if you put courage before skill you can only crash and burn in poker.
Either way, this seems irrelevant to the problem of whether grinding at low stake worths the time and effort if you fail to level up.
【在 d******u 的大作中提到】
: ai... everybody can have different understandings which should not be
: judged as right or wrong. i.e. for a frog in a well, it is arguable
: whether ppl outside of the well or the frog itself understand the
: problem better or worse.
: if anybody takes risk-taking as profession, better calculation of risk
: will only give him survival, while the only route to the top is the
: courage ... always ready to die in the middle.. ready to take the shot
: in the dark if needed...
: in that sense, your mental bankroll
| y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 39 the skill level matters.
Considering 1000NL and 100NL, if raise preflop, still the same 3BB, cbet is
4-5bb. The difference is that opponent is much more aggro, much more
trickier, and no station there.
【在 d******u 的大作中提到】
: ai... everybody can have different understandings which should not be
: judged as right or wrong. i.e. for a frog in a well, it is arguable
: whether ppl outside of the well or the frog itself understand the
: problem better or worse.
: if anybody takes risk-taking as profession, better calculation of risk
: will only give him survival, while the only route to the top is the
: courage ... always ready to die in the middle.. ready to take the shot
: in the dark if needed...
: in that sense, your mental bankroll
| d******u
发帖数: 142 | 40 of course, skill matters. my point is that you should move up whenever you
feel you already have the edge in certain level. You don't need physical
cash to be there as long as you are mentally prepared. The real tough part
is the mental training rather than specific skills. Particularly, in poker
a lot of skills at micro level is almost useless when you move up.
The aggression is just what it appears in surface. The story behind is
exactly saying, for most of ppl, it is far more critical as a ba
【在 y********n 的大作中提到】
: the skill level matters.
: Considering 1000NL and 100NL, if raise preflop, still the same 3BB, cbet is
: 4-5bb. The difference is that opponent is much more aggro, much more
: trickier, and no station there.
| | | d******u
发帖数: 142 | 41 of course, skill matters. my point is that you should move up whenever you
feel you already have the edge in certain level. You don't need physical
cash to be there as long as you are mentally prepared. The real tough part
is the mental training rather than specific skills. Particularly, in poker
a lot of skills at micro level is almost useless when you move up.
The aggression is just what it appears in surface. The story behind is
exactly saying, for most of ppl, it is far more critical as a ba
【在 y********n 的大作中提到】
: the skill level matters.
: Considering 1000NL and 100NL, if raise preflop, still the same 3BB, cbet is
: 4-5bb. The difference is that opponent is much more aggro, much more
: trickier, and no station there.
|
|
