s***u
发帖数: 1911 | 1 by Dave Hunt
When Is Depravity Not Total?
To support their doctrine of Total Depravity, Calvinists must reconcile it w
ith the obvious fact that the most ungodly people are capable of some morall
y good thoughts and deeds. Nor can that fact be explained away by always att
ributing the ungodly's good deeds to selfish motives.
Some unsaved soldiers have selflessly thrown themselves upon hand grenades t
o save their buddies' lives - an act of heroic compassion from which many Ch
ristians would shrink.
Unquestionably, all human beings are capable of summoning a worldly altruism
which can be widely admired. Acknowledging this natural goodness, a Calvini
st author writes, "Total Depravity ... does not mean that man is as evil as
he could be." 27
How much more evil could one be than for every thought of his heart to be on
ly evil continually? And how can the so-called totally depraved have good th
oughts and do good deeds? Calvinists contradict themselves continually in th
is regard. For example, just before stating that "it is impossible for him [
the non-Christian] to do good ... he is not even able to understand the good
," 28
Palmer has acknowledged what seems to be the opposite:
Albert Schweitzer is an example of one who denied biblical Christianity and
yet who put to shame many an orthodox Christian by his love and kindness. Fo
r other examples of relative good, consider ... the non-Christian who risks
his life by dashing before an oncoming truck to rescue a child ... a blasphe
ming pagan who helps a beggar ... the Jew who donates his large estate for p
ublic recreation .... 29
Another Calvinist writer admits that even the most ungodly persons "are able
to love their children and even sacrifice their own lives for the sake of f
amily ... sometimes even for strangers ... are honest ... good people who do
good deeds." 30 Even some Nazi guards who had spent the day in torturing an
d killing would come home in the evening and exhibit love and kindness to th
eir wives and children. Multitudes of ungodly people at times exhibit much k
indness and honesty. Of many unsaved businessmen it can be said, "His word i
s his bond," even that he "sweareth to his own hurt, and changeth not" (Psal
ms 15:4). |
R******d
发帖数: 168 | 2 请删除后同主题贴，免得被封
w
morall
att
t
Ch
altruism
【在 s***u 的大作中提到】
: by Dave Hunt
: When Is Depravity Not Total?
: To support their doctrine of Total Depravity, Calvinists must reconcile it w
: ith the obvious fact that the most ungodly people are capable of some morall
: y good thoughts and deeds. Nor can that fact be explained away by always att
: ributing the ungodly's good deeds to selfish motives.
: Some unsaved soldiers have selflessly thrown themselves upon hand grenades t
: o save their buddies' lives - an act of heroic compassion from which many Ch
: ristians would shrink.
: Unquestionably, all human beings are capable of summoning a worldly altruism
|
s***u
发帖数: 1911 | 3 "total depravity" is obviously a false teaching. Any person is able to do
good things. As long as you don't kill your family, you are not "totally"
depraved.
【在 R******d 的大作中提到】
: 请删除后同主题贴，免得被封
:
: w
: morall
: att
: t
: Ch
: altruism
|
R******d
发帖数: 168 | 4 你知道什么叫total depravity么？先讲明白
【在 s***u 的大作中提到】
: "total depravity" is obviously a false teaching. Any person is able to do
: good things. As long as you don't kill your family, you are not "totally"
: depraved.
|
s***u
发帖数: 1911 | 5 The Westminster Confession of Faith declares: "Our first parents ... became
dead in sin, and wholly defiled in all the faculties and parts of soul and
body ... wholly inclined to all evil .... Man, by his fall into a state of
sin, hath wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying
salvation ... being altogether averse from that good, and dead to sin, is
not able by his own strength, to convert himself, or to prepare himself
thereunto." 65
【在 R******d 的大作中提到】
: 你知道什么叫total depravity么？先讲明白
|
R******d
发帖数: 168 | 6 哪里说你要杀你父母了？
became
accompanying
【在 s***u 的大作中提到】
: The Westminster Confession of Faith declares: "Our first parents ... became
: dead in sin, and wholly defiled in all the faculties and parts of soul and
: body ... wholly inclined to all evil .... Man, by his fall into a state of
: sin, hath wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying
: salvation ... being altogether averse from that good, and dead to sin, is
: not able by his own strength, to convert himself, or to prepare himself
: thereunto." 65
|
s***u
发帖数: 1911 | 7 this is the definition from the Calvnism publication.
Dave Hunt wrote this article to rebuke any forms of definition of "total dep
rvatiy"
what's your definition of that?
【在 R******d 的大作中提到】
: 哪里说你要杀你父母了？
:
: became
: accompanying
|
R******d
发帖数: 168 | 8 人无法主动去接受救恩而得救
dep
【在 s***u 的大作中提到】
: this is the definition from the Calvnism publication.
: Dave Hunt wrote this article to rebuke any forms of definition of "total dep
: rvatiy"
: what's your definition of that?
|
s***u
发帖数: 1911 | 9 I know. the first 70+ pages of this book is dealing with this false
teaching.
but some Christians often use "total depravity" to "prove" that a person is
not able to do any good things. I hope you are not this kind of "Christian".
【在 R******d 的大作中提到】
: 人无法主动去接受救恩而得救
:
: dep
|
R******d
发帖数: 168 | 10 那些基督徒这么说了？
当然要看你怎么定义好行为，如果按照神的标准，人的确没什么好行为
is
Christian".
【在 s***u 的大作中提到】
: I know. the first 70+ pages of this book is dealing with this false
: teaching.
: but some Christians often use "total depravity" to "prove" that a person is
: not able to do any good things. I hope you are not this kind of "Christian".
|
|
|
s***u
发帖数: 1911 | 11 see, how you interpret the "total deprvaity"?
why do you have to think the mighty God only can make trashes?
there were many righteous people in the bible. check this verse
Daniel 6:22
My God sent his angel, and he shut the mouths of the lions. They have not
hurt me, because I was found innocent in his sight. Nor have I ever done any
wrong before you, O king."
【在 R******d 的大作中提到】
: 那些基督徒这么说了？
: 当然要看你怎么定义好行为，如果按照神的标准，人的确没什么好行为
:
: is
: Christian".
|
R******d
发帖数: 168 | 12 我造光也造暗
any
【在 s***u 的大作中提到】
: see, how you interpret the "total deprvaity"?
: why do you have to think the mighty God only can make trashes?
: there were many righteous people in the bible. check this verse
: Daniel 6:22
: My God sent his angel, and he shut the mouths of the lions. They have not
: hurt me, because I was found innocent in his sight. Nor have I ever done any
: wrong before you, O king."
|
s***u
发帖数: 1911 | 13 we are in God's image.
【在 R******d 的大作中提到】
: 我造光也造暗
:
: any
|
R******d
发帖数: 168 | 14 do you know what is God's image?
【在 s***u 的大作中提到】
: we are in God's image.
|
s***u
发帖数: 1911 | 15 仁者爱人
【在 R******d 的大作中提到】
: do you know what is God's image?
|
s***u
发帖数: 1911 | 16 by Dave Hunt
When Is Depravity Not Total?
To support their doctrine of Total Depravity, Calvinists must reconcile it w
ith the obvious fact that the most ungodly people are capable of some morall
y good thoughts and deeds. Nor can that fact be explained away by always att
ributing the ungodly's good deeds to selfish motives.
Some unsaved soldiers have selflessly thrown themselves upon hand grenades t
o save their buddies' lives - an act of heroic compassion from which many Ch
ristians would shrink.
Unquestionably, all human beings are capable of summoning a worldly altruism
which can be widely admired. Acknowledging this natural goodness, a Calvini
st author writes, "Total Depravity ... does not mean that man is as evil as
he could be." 27
How much more evil could one be than for every thought of his heart to be on
ly evil continually? And how can the so-called totally depraved have good th
oughts and do good deeds? Calvinists contradict themselves continually in th
is regard. For example, just before stating that "it is impossible for him [
the non-Christian] to do good ... he is not even able to understand the good
," 28
Palmer has acknowledged what seems to be the opposite:
Albert Schweitzer is an example of one who denied biblical Christianity and
yet who put to shame many an orthodox Christian by his love and kindness. Fo
r other examples of relative good, consider ... the non-Christian who risks
his life by dashing before an oncoming truck to rescue a child ... a blasphe
ming pagan who helps a beggar ... the Jew who donates his large estate for p
ublic recreation .... 29
Another Calvinist writer admits that even the most ungodly persons "are able
to love their children and even sacrifice their own lives for the sake of f
amily ... sometimes even for strangers ... are honest ... good people who do
good deeds." 30 Even some Nazi guards who had spent the day in torturing an
d killing would come home in the evening and exhibit love and kindness to th
eir wives and children. Multitudes of ungodly people at times exhibit much k
indness and honesty. Of many unsaved businessmen it can be said, "His word i
s his bond," even that he "sweareth to his own hurt, and changeth not" (Psal
ms 15:4). |
R******d
发帖数: 168 | 17 请删除后同主题贴，免得被封
w
morall
att
t
Ch
altruism
【在 s***u 的大作中提到】
: by Dave Hunt
: When Is Depravity Not Total?
: To support their doctrine of Total Depravity, Calvinists must reconcile it w
: ith the obvious fact that the most ungodly people are capable of some morall
: y good thoughts and deeds. Nor can that fact be explained away by always att
: ributing the ungodly's good deeds to selfish motives.
: Some unsaved soldiers have selflessly thrown themselves upon hand grenades t
: o save their buddies' lives - an act of heroic compassion from which many Ch
: ristians would shrink.
: Unquestionably, all human beings are capable of summoning a worldly altruism
|
s***u
发帖数: 1911 | 18 "total depravity" is obviously a false teaching. Any person is able to do
good things. As long as you don't kill your family, you are not "totally"
depraved.
【在 R******d 的大作中提到】
: 请删除后同主题贴，免得被封
:
: w
: morall
: att
: t
: Ch
: altruism
|
R******d
发帖数: 168 | 19 你知道什么叫total depravity么？先讲明白
【在 s***u 的大作中提到】
: "total depravity" is obviously a false teaching. Any person is able to do
: good things. As long as you don't kill your family, you are not "totally"
: depraved.
|
s***u
发帖数: 1911 | 20 The Westminster Confession of Faith declares: "Our first parents ... became
dead in sin, and wholly defiled in all the faculties and parts of soul and
body ... wholly inclined to all evil .... Man, by his fall into a state of
sin, hath wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying
salvation ... being altogether averse from that good, and dead to sin, is
not able by his own strength, to convert himself, or to prepare himself
thereunto." 65
【在 R******d 的大作中提到】
: 你知道什么叫total depravity么？先讲明白
|
|
|
R******d
发帖数: 168 | 21 哪里说你要杀你父母了？
became
accompanying
【在 s***u 的大作中提到】
: The Westminster Confession of Faith declares: "Our first parents ... became
: dead in sin, and wholly defiled in all the faculties and parts of soul and
: body ... wholly inclined to all evil .... Man, by his fall into a state of
: sin, hath wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying
: salvation ... being altogether averse from that good, and dead to sin, is
: not able by his own strength, to convert himself, or to prepare himself
: thereunto." 65
|
s***u
发帖数: 1911 | 22 this is the definition from the Calvnism publication.
Dave Hunt wrote this article to rebuke any forms of definition of "total dep
rvatiy"
what's your definition of that?
【在 R******d 的大作中提到】
: 哪里说你要杀你父母了？
:
: became
: accompanying
|
R******d
发帖数: 168 | 23 人无法主动去接受救恩而得救
dep
【在 s***u 的大作中提到】
: this is the definition from the Calvnism publication.
: Dave Hunt wrote this article to rebuke any forms of definition of "total dep
: rvatiy"
: what's your definition of that?
|
s***u
发帖数: 1911 | 24 I know. the first 70+ pages of this book is dealing with this false
teaching.
but some Christians often use "total depravity" to "prove" that a person is
not able to do any good things. I hope you are not this kind of "Christian".
【在 R******d 的大作中提到】
: 人无法主动去接受救恩而得救
:
: dep
|
R******d
发帖数: 168 | 25 那些基督徒这么说了？
当然要看你怎么定义好行为，如果按照神的标准，人的确没什么好行为
is
Christian".
【在 s***u 的大作中提到】
: I know. the first 70+ pages of this book is dealing with this false
: teaching.
: but some Christians often use "total depravity" to "prove" that a person is
: not able to do any good things. I hope you are not this kind of "Christian".
|
s***u
发帖数: 1911 | 26 see, how you interpret the "total deprvaity"?
why do you have to think the mighty God only can make trashes?
there were many righteous people in the bible. check this verse
Daniel 6:22
My God sent his angel, and he shut the mouths of the lions. They have not
hurt me, because I was found innocent in his sight. Nor have I ever done any
wrong before you, O king."
【在 R******d 的大作中提到】
: 那些基督徒这么说了？
: 当然要看你怎么定义好行为，如果按照神的标准，人的确没什么好行为
:
: is
: Christian".
|
R******d
发帖数: 168 | 27 我造光也造暗
any
【在 s***u 的大作中提到】
: see, how you interpret the "total deprvaity"?
: why do you have to think the mighty God only can make trashes?
: there were many righteous people in the bible. check this verse
: Daniel 6:22
: My God sent his angel, and he shut the mouths of the lions. They have not
: hurt me, because I was found innocent in his sight. Nor have I ever done any
: wrong before you, O king."
|
s***u
发帖数: 1911 | 28 we are in God's image.
【在 R******d 的大作中提到】
: 我造光也造暗
:
: any
|
R******d
发帖数: 168 | 29 do you know what is God's image?
【在 s***u 的大作中提到】
: we are in God's image.
|
s***u
发帖数: 1911 | 30 仁者爱人
【在 R******d 的大作中提到】
: do you know what is God's image?
|
|
|
R*o
发帖数: 3781 | 31 we need to know there is also "original goodness" |
