d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 1 $2+$.2 buyin , top 12 win $11 tourney ticket
final 15, majority have 10bb or so stack. no donkey left, means everyone is
semi-serious.
Hero 10bb(12th) on big blind with kqo.
Villain CO open shove 9bb, whose stats is 25/19/3 (vpip/pfr/3bet)
hero? | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 2 fold.
1) you're a dog against Ax, slightly behind mid/low PP, way behind AA/AK/KK/
QQ/AQ;
2) you'll complete your BB (the most expensive price) after this hand, so
for the next whole round, you only "owe" 1 SB.
top 12 get same money, you don't need to gamble here at all.
is
【在 d*****0 的大作中提到】
: $2+$.2 buyin , top 12 win $11 tourney ticket
: final 15, majority have 10bb or so stack. no donkey left, means everyone is
: semi-serious.
: Hero 10bb(12th) on big blind with kqo.
: Villain CO open shove 9bb, whose stats is 25/19/3 (vpip/pfr/3bet)
: hero?
| d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 3 我的想法是
1 我有俩blocker
2 我的image较紧
3 并且买入太小，之前也有好多light shove showdown，对手也不是rock，open range
可能广一点
4 7人桌，大家都是平均stack，后面我还得赌的可能性很大，所以想早点赌
想知道这里是不是一个clear fold | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 4 i guess you're behind the majority of his range, and almost even stack,
there's no need to gamble.
even with AK/AQ, you need to think twice.
by calling with KQo, you're doing others a big favor by knocking him out by
"luck" or busting yourself.
again, top 12, same money, you can get there with even 1 chip left.
range
【在 d*****0 的大作中提到】
: 我的想法是
: 1 我有俩blocker
: 2 我的image较紧
: 3 并且买入太小，之前也有好多light shove showdown，对手也不是rock，open range
: 可能广一点
: 4 7人桌，大家都是平均stack，后面我还得赌的可能性很大，所以想早点赌
: 想知道这里是不是一个clear fold
| s*******o
发帖数: 4896 | 5 it's a clear fold for me if you played enough SuperTurbo.
is
【在 d*****0 的大作中提到】
: $2+$.2 buyin , top 12 win $11 tourney ticket
: final 15, majority have 10bb or so stack. no donkey left, means everyone is
: semi-serious.
: Hero 10bb(12th) on big blind with kqo.
: Villain CO open shove 9bb, whose stats is 25/19/3 (vpip/pfr/3bet)
: hero?
| d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 6 那这里我的calling range是多少
结合我所提供的信息
aqo＋我觉得偏紧了，是否ats 99＋也是个call | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 7 i'm weak tight, i'd do QQ+ or AK, or half time with AQ/JJ.
it boils down to that you don't need to have 20BB+ to "guarantee" a ticket
here. this is not a tourney where the money ladder goes steep after bubble.
or you're risking everything with little reward.
pokeryjj taught me to muck AQo here long time ago, and i did realize it's a
good lesson. man, miss that dude!
【在 d*****0 的大作中提到】
: 那这里我的calling range是多少
: 结合我所提供的信息
: aqo＋我觉得偏紧了，是否ats 99＋也是个call
| s*******o
发帖数: 4896 | 8 to call K high, CO has to push more than 40% at that position...
10bb的话 I may call 77+, AQ+, AJs, if CO is a good player. Otherwise,
tighten your range more.
【在 d*****0 的大作中提到】
: 那这里我的calling range是多少
: 结合我所提供的信息
: aqo＋我觉得偏紧了，是否ats 99＋也是个call
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 9 another thing is you might be too concerned with his VPIP, which in general
is a good factor but not here.
【在 d*****0 的大作中提到】
: 那这里我的calling range是多少
: 结合我所提供的信息
: aqo＋我觉得偏紧了，是否ats 99＋也是个call
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 10 Jim 大老， 你打这种micro game 如何包养梨树和我呀？还是上50刀以上的吧。
is
【在 d*****0 的大作中提到】
: $2+$.2 buyin , top 12 win $11 tourney ticket
: final 15, majority have 10bb or so stack. no donkey left, means everyone is
: semi-serious.
: Hero 10bb(12th) on big blind with kqo.
: Villain CO open shove 9bb, whose stats is 25/19/3 (vpip/pfr/3bet)
: hero?
| | | d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 11
啊？！ $11够哥两天的伙食了，这手kqs的commit把哥的肠子都悔青了。
btw，要求包养需自行解决食宿，并附200刀申请费，谢谢
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: Jim 大老， 你打这种micro game 如何包养梨树和我呀？还是上50刀以上的吧。
:
: is
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 12 原来包养别人比打牌更赚钱
【在 d*****0 的大作中提到】
:
: 啊？！ $11够哥两天的伙食了，这手kqs的commit把哥的肠子都悔青了。
: btw，要求包养需自行解决食宿，并附200刀申请费，谢谢
| p**********1
发帖数: 1458 | 13 KK+, if there are several minuscule stacks, folding KK is fine. | y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 14 fryking is absolutely correct.
In game, I guess you need 75% equity to make the break even call. Put it
with hands: JJ+ can call. AQ/Ak is a fold.
Since I am a little lazy, I will make the in-game estimation, instead of
calculation.
Pretty sure you can get the correct icm number by using Sngwiz, or online
tools.
I estimate each of you has around 9$ equity in the tourney.(rough
calculation:12*11/15=8.8, my guess is close enough) If you call and win, you
get around 10.88$(estimation).
In this scenario, you risk 8.8$ to win 2$,so the equity you need is equal to
8.8/(8.8+2) = 81%. Since you have kq, you need pretty sure he has K3, Q5
to make the break even call(close). However, if opponent has 38o, 27o,you
will lose money for sure.
Question:
If you call, both u and ur opponent will lose money, how much do you guys
lose(combined)?
Answer:
should be pretty clear, it is 9$+9$-11$=7$
Question:
Suppose you make bad assumption, your opponent
has A2, apparently you will lose money, how much will you lose?
Answer: If you have Kq, your opponent has A2. you will have 45% chance of
winning, after calling, your equity is 11$*45%=5, you lose 9-5=4$.
Question:
What does it mean?
Answer:
From Roi point of view, you invest 9$, lose 4$, your roi is equal to -4
/9=-45%.
By calling, with that specific hand, your calling decision brings -45% ROI
impact. I can not think any worse decision than that.
Question:
By calling, does it exist some situation which I can make money?
Answer:
It does exist, but very rarely. Suppose you have KK, you oppoent has K2.
After calling, your equity is 11$*90%=9.9$, you win 9.9-9=0.9$. On the
countary, your opponent lose 9-11*0.1=7.9$
Question:
Where does those equity go?
Answer:
By calling, you 2 guys give 6$/13 to every remaining opponent, on the
assumption everyone has equal stack.
Question:
It is so strange, how does this stupid thing happens?
Answer:
fryking pretty much said it, because you have equity ceiling, your reward
can not exceed 11$, it is capped. You already have 9$, you do not much.
Question:
Then it is simple, every time I fold KQ here, am I correct?
Answer:
Most time, it is the correct approach. However, in game, things could be
differnt, suppose you have a reg on your right, a loosing calling fish on
your right. The situation may dictate you are forced to call that allin. You
are making negative EV calling decision here, but it prevents you make the
more negative EV pushing decistion in the future.
Sounds to me, players need learn some ICM stuff before playing games.
I also can realize why cash player do not like SNG or tourneys, because the
ICM makes the game unjoyable.
$2+$.2 buyin , top 12 win $11 tourney ticket
final 15, majority have 10bb or so stack. no donkey left, means everyone is
semi-serious.
Hero 10bb(12th) on big blind with kqo.
Villain CO open shove 9bb, whose stats is 25/19/3 (vpip/pfr/3bet)
hero?
.
a
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: i'm weak tight, i'd do QQ+ or AK, or half time with AQ/JJ.
: it boils down to that you don't need to have 20BB+ to "guarantee" a ticket
: here. this is not a tourney where the money ladder goes steep after bubble.
: or you're risking everything with little reward.
: pokeryjj taught me to muck AQo here long time ago, and i did realize it's a
: good lesson. man, miss that dude!
| y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 15 i guess you're behind the majority of his range, and almost even stack,
there's no need to gamble.
------------->that does not matter any more. You need 81% favor to break
even. I guess only QQ, KK, AA qualify this.
But I do believe hero's hand is ahead here, but only 66% favor if we are
lucky.
by
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: i guess you're behind the majority of his range, and almost even stack,
: there's no need to gamble.
: even with AK/AQ, you need to think twice.
: by calling with KQo, you're doing others a big favor by knocking him out by
: "luck" or busting yourself.
: again, top 12, same money, you can get there with even 1 chip left.
:
: range
| p**********1
发帖数: 1458 | 16 in order to break even with QQ, villain need to shove 100%, which does not
happen often in a two-dollar game. even KK is -EV if villain only shove
about 40%. KK break even when villain shove 60%+.
【在 y********n 的大作中提到】
: i guess you're behind the majority of his range, and almost even stack,
: there's no need to gamble.
: ------------->that does not matter any more. You need 81% favor to break
: even. I guess only QQ, KK, AA qualify this.
: But I do believe hero's hand is ahead here, but only 66% favor if we are
: lucky.
:
: by
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 17 赞精益求精。
【在 p**********1 的大作中提到】
: in order to break even with QQ, villain need to shove 100%, which does not
: happen often in a two-dollar game. even KK is -EV if villain only shove
: about 40%. KK break even when villain shove 60%+.
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 18 兄弟，你开始搞SNE没有？搞了的话这第一个情况如何？
【在 y********n 的大作中提到】
: i guess you're behind the majority of his range, and almost even stack,
: there's no need to gamble.
: ------------->that does not matter any more. You need 81% favor to break
: even. I guess only QQ, KK, AA qualify this.
: But I do believe hero's hand is ahead here, but only 66% favor if we are
: lucky.
:
: by
| d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 19
you
好了 我跟你混了 呵呵
btw 你现在还在玩么 pm我你的id 我好rail rail if you dont mind
【在 y********n 的大作中提到】
: fryking is absolutely correct.
: In game, I guess you need 75% equity to make the break even call. Put it
: with hands: JJ+ can call. AQ/Ak is a fold.
: Since I am a little lazy, I will make the in-game estimation, instead of
: calculation.
: Pretty sure you can get the correct icm number by using Sngwiz, or online
: tools.
: I estimate each of you has around 9$ equity in the tourney.(rough
: calculation:12*11/15=8.8, my guess is close enough) If you call and win, you
: get around 10.88$(estimation).
| d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 20 I estimate each of you has around 9$ equity in the tourney.(rough
calculation:12*11/15=8.8, my guess is close enough) If you call and win, you
get around 10.88$(estimation).
－－－ 求10.88怎么算出来的 谢谢 | y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 21 this is very simple.
Because the ticket is worth 11$, even you double up, your equity can not
exceed 11$, although you have great chance of getting the ticket, you are
not garanteed, your equity is some number close to 11$. In this case , I
give it an estimation of 10.88.
Guess you are close to the correct approach now. This difficult part of
this game is to estimate your equity in game accuratly. It takes some time
to master it.
Let me break it down in several steps:
1. estimate your equity, and other players' equity.
2. estimate the other players' skill level.
3. basing on the former information, and the blinds level, player style, you
need to generate a game plan which can maximize your equity.
4. dealing a specific hand, think about all the options you could have:
for example, fold to you, you can shove, raise/fold, raise/call, fold. which
option maximize your equity.
your decision goes on from here.
you
【在 d*****0 的大作中提到】
: I estimate each of you has around 9$ equity in the tourney.(rough
: calculation:12*11/15=8.8, my guess is close enough) If you call and win, you
: get around 10.88$(estimation).
: －－－ 求10.88怎么算出来的 谢谢
| y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 22 I can give another piece of trick.
When you play MTT satellite, you'd better stay off trouble by waitting,
because there are plenty of chances other ppl will make the huge mistake,
and you will benefit from it.
When it is a 9 man sng format satellite(top 3 get paid), you still need be
patient, because when you make the mistake, the remaining two guy uninvolved
will get the equity boost. You'd better choose to shove than call, this is
pretty much the best weapon.
When it is a 6 man format satellite(top 2 get paid), you have to call with
KQ, it may sounds stupid(because it is -EV call), but this prevent you from
making huge mistakes later on.
[I personally think KQ will have 65% equity in this case. Suppose opponent
has some chances to get AX, and pocket pairs(your equity is around 45%), but
he will sometimes has K2, QT stuff also(your equity is 75%), let us cancel
these out. other case is KQ vs 8T, 67, J8, generally you will have 66%
equity.]
.So, I have high chance to call with KQo, KJs. If it is a normal sng format,
I have very high chance to call it.
I do not play steps, but I guess you need take time to study the payout
structure before you play any real games.
Another great variation is Fifty50, the payout structure is flexible. I have
not play any games, but I think it involves more skills than any other
format of sngs, since the equity chances significantly during the game, the
game plan is quite different on different scenarios.
you
【在 d*****0 的大作中提到】
: I estimate each of you has around 9$ equity in the tourney.(rough
: calculation:12*11/15=8.8, my guess is close enough) If you call and win, you
: get around 10.88$(estimation).
: －－－ 求10.88怎么算出来的 谢谢
|
|
