p*******p
发帖数: 13670 | 1 What is your best move for following hands
1. NL100, me 108BB, villian is 9/9, had me covered
fold to villian (mp5) raise to 3bb, I called at SB with 7c7h, BB fold
flop 6d3d6h (pot 7bb), I check villian bet 4.5BB, I check-raise to 15BB,
villian called
turn 2s (pot 37bb), I bet 23 BB, villian called
river Jh (pot 83 bb)
what he has? what's your best move for this hand?
2. NL100, me 103bb, v1 53bb no history, v2 70bb 22/7
1. fold to utg+2, raise to 3bb, v2 called, I called with AQo at BB (probably
should 3bet)
flop JQ2 rainbow (9.5bb), I donk bet 6bb, v1 fold, v2 mini raise to 12bb I
re-raise to 28bb he shoved with his rest stack, 40bb to call for a 100bb pot
shall I call or fold? | D*A
发帖数: 1169 | 2 1,i think you are beaten everystreet, check/fold
2,QJ or KQ but i would still call
probably
【在 p*******p 的大作中提到】
: What is your best move for following hands
: 1. NL100, me 108BB, villian is 9/9, had me covered
: fold to villian (mp5) raise to 3bb, I called at SB with 7c7h, BB fold
: flop 6d3d6h (pot 7bb), I check villian bet 4.5BB, I check-raise to 15BB,
: villian called
: turn 2s (pot 37bb), I bet 23 BB, villian called
: river Jh (pot 83 bb)
: what he has? what's your best move for this hand?
: 2. NL100, me 103bb, v1 53bb no history, v2 70bb 22/7
: 1. fold to utg+2, raise to 3bb, v2 called, I called with AQo at BB (probably
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 3 1. need pot control, you're not going to win a big pot 95% of time i guess.
check raise this big on 636 flop, i don't like it.
once he calls, check blank turn,
river check fold.
2. again, i'd not check raise here after flatting preflop, hehe, yes, you
have TPTK, but out of position, he could give you a lot of troubles with a
wide range of hands.
and if you can't call 80%+ of time after he shoves, 70BB stack here is very
awkward. you get good odds, but TPTK is still a small hand.
probably
【在 p*******p 的大作中提到】
: What is your best move for following hands
: 1. NL100, me 108BB, villian is 9/9, had me covered
: fold to villian (mp5) raise to 3bb, I called at SB with 7c7h, BB fold
: flop 6d3d6h (pot 7bb), I check villian bet 4.5BB, I check-raise to 15BB,
: villian called
: turn 2s (pot 37bb), I bet 23 BB, villian called
: river Jh (pot 83 bb)
: what he has? what's your best move for this hand?
: 2. NL100, me 103bb, v1 53bb no history, v2 70bb 22/7
: 1. fold to utg+2, raise to 3bb, v2 called, I called with AQo at BB (probably
| p*******p
发帖数: 13670 | 4 the problem is if I just call, then he fires again on turn, I fold, then
maybe it's better just fold on flop? so shall I just play this kind of hand
as set mining? coz seems unless I hit a 7 on flop, it's very hard to play
.
very
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: 1. need pot control, you're not going to win a big pot 95% of time i guess.
: check raise this big on 636 flop, i don't like it.
: once he calls, check blank turn,
: river check fold.
: 2. again, i'd not check raise here after flatting preflop, hehe, yes, you
: have TPTK, but out of position, he could give you a lot of troubles with a
: wide range of hands.
: and if you can't call 80%+ of time after he shoves, 70BB stack here is very
: awkward. you get good odds, but TPTK is still a small hand.
:
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 5 you know you only got 77, he doesn't.
if his c-bet % is high, it's fine.
hand
【在 p*******p 的大作中提到】
: the problem is if I just call, then he fires again on turn, I fold, then
: maybe it's better just fold on flop? so shall I just play this kind of hand
: as set mining? coz seems unless I hit a 7 on flop, it's very hard to play
:
: .
: very
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 6 hand 1 is no good. you can do this with 2 7 but pocket 7s is too good a
hand here to turn it into a bluff. Check call flop, and donk turn seems a
good line.
hand 2 3 bet pre unless EP raise is a nit. post flop get it in vs short
stack. | p*******p
发帖数: 13670 | 7 to have a good estimate of his c-bet % , need at least 1000+ hand history,
it's hard, usually I only have 100 hand history against a villian
what if on the other hand, you have 77 on this flop and in position, will
you call the check raise and call turn?
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: you know you only got 77, he doesn't.
: if his c-bet % is high, it's fine.
:
: hand
| p*******p
发帖数: 13670 | 8 it's not a complete bluff, a lot of cases he will only have 2 high cards and
I am actually leading....
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: hand 1 is no good. you can do this with 2 7 but pocket 7s is too good a
: hand here to turn it into a bluff. Check call flop, and donk turn seems a
: good line.
: hand 2 3 bet pre unless EP raise is a nit. post flop get it in vs short
: stack.
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 9 true, but the problem here is you're not sure, out of position, or x% sure
enough once he calls.
in his eyes, you could be faking a 6x hand here too, so most of his PPs
would at least see another street, and almost all of them have you beat. 2
high cards, yeah, quite likely they won't take you seriously here on flop if
they're experienced.
a lot of cards on the turn would make your hand hard to play for an already
big pot.
in general, i'd say this hand is not worth it, unless you know your opponent
very well. risking about half stack here out of position with 77 is not my
way, hehe, or there're much more better spots in my daily grinding.
and
【在 p*******p 的大作中提到】
: it's not a complete bluff, a lot of cases he will only have 2 high cards and
: I am actually leading....
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 10 actually, another really scary part is not his raising (if he does it
somewhere), but he keeps calling your bet.
position is so valuable, even for pure bluffs.
【在 p*******p 的大作中提到】
: to have a good estimate of his c-bet % , need at least 1000+ hand history,
: it's hard, usually I only have 100 hand history against a villian
: what if on the other hand, you have 77 on this flop and in position, will
: you call the check raise and call turn?
| | | p*******p
发帖数: 13670 | 11 i know, I used to play exactly like you said, but then it turns out, you
should either 3 bet pre or fold pre for a hand like that, right?
if
already
opponent
my
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: true, but the problem here is you're not sure, out of position, or x% sure
: enough once he calls.
: in his eyes, you could be faking a 6x hand here too, so most of his PPs
: would at least see another street, and almost all of them have you beat. 2
: high cards, yeah, quite likely they won't take you seriously here on flop if
: they're experienced.
: a lot of cards on the turn would make your hand hard to play for an already
: big pot.
: in general, i'd say this hand is not worth it, unless you know your opponent
: very well. risking about half stack here out of position with 77 is not my
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 12 i would call pre for 3bb, 77 is good for that price and set mining.
3 bet pre is kind of inflating the pot, out of position, only do it small %
of time.
folding is too weak for 2.5BB extra.
but this kind of flop is not a good spot to go too aggressively. for small
stakes, ABC is good enough. 50BB investment with possible river folding is
just way too expensive. or put in this way, we need to beat 5bb/100 for 1000
hands to "make up" for this.
【在 p*******p 的大作中提到】
: i know, I used to play exactly like you said, but then it turns out, you
: should either 3 bet pre or fold pre for a hand like that, right?
:
: if
: already
: opponent
: my
| p*******p
发帖数: 13670 | 13 en， i agree, guess ABC is better here
%
1000
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: i would call pre for 3bb, 77 is good for that price and set mining.
: 3 bet pre is kind of inflating the pot, out of position, only do it small %
: of time.
: folding is too weak for 2.5BB extra.
: but this kind of flop is not a good spot to go too aggressively. for small
: stakes, ABC is good enough. 50BB investment with possible river folding is
: just way too expensive. or put in this way, we need to beat 5bb/100 for 1000
: hands to "make up" for this.
| d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 14 想问下grinder们，100NL有多少比例的人还在打ABC，感觉黎叔的思路已经不是在用ABC
而是开始利用别人的ABC想法了，或者说从数学上转到心理学。
我个外行人，如果处在第一手牌villain的地位，看到盲注上黎叔的两轮应对，我会非
常担心黎叔可能中trip，没有位置还示强，either 纯bluf or 的确有强与over pair的
牌，如果从pot size的角度考虑，villain手上的high cards或者over pair就非常烫手
了， 我个外行人具体情况也分析不清楚，想问问大大们，即使你们手上拿得的是AA，
这手牌也能call的很轻松或者直接flop就shove了么？ | T*********k
发帖数: 1621 | 15 Harrington's book has a exact same example and I think it is very useful.
It is all about opponents range and distribution. If he is tight, say vpip/
pfr like 8/8, 10/8, most likely he plays high card or high pair.
A 6d3d6h board is very good flop for 77s against tight player. Most of his
range missed the flop and there is only small pct that he had flush draw. I
like your check-raise on the flop. If he doesn't have a over pair, then it
is very hard for him to proceed.
Note that you can't just check and call on the flop because if turn comes
high cards, like A, K, Q, etc., which is very likely, you don't know what to
do and you don't have any idea if he will make play at you. Take control on
the pot at the flop is a good move.
However, once he called on the flop, most likely he had sth and get you beat
, check and fold is your best option. Most ppl won't float and called your
check raise on the flop and made move on the turn. There are not many ppl
having this kind of reading ability.
So I'd like check raise on the flop and check fold on the turn, or if he
check again, checked on the river to see showdown cheap. | W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 16 Raising flop and planning to shut down if called is not a good play out of
position with so little equity in the pot when beat. Pocket 7s is a decent
hand on that board and you have a lot of SDV. However, you just don't have
enough equity in the pot to over play this hand even if you are ahead on the
flop. you are about breaking even vs 2 over card + flush draw which is the
only hand you can get some value out before the flush card comes. But it
gives villian a lot of room for bluffing and betting for thin value whether he
draws out or not. I see a -ev situation over long run if your villian is decent
simply because you are out of position.
Now if villian does not have a draw, then you are beat almost 100% if your
turn bet is called. If no worse hand will call your bet, then 1) it is a
bluff 2) you can do it with any 2 cards. Now it comes down to the question whether bluffing on a low paired board out of position will give you a +EV over long run with any 2 cards. | p*******p
发帖数: 13670 | 17 so just call call call and see show down, how that play gonna be +ev, I
seriously wondering
the
the
whether he
decent
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: Raising flop and planning to shut down if called is not a good play out of
: position with so little equity in the pot when beat. Pocket 7s is a decent
: hand on that board and you have a lot of SDV. However, you just don't have
: enough equity in the pot to over play this hand even if you are ahead on the
: flop. you are about breaking even vs 2 over card + flush draw which is the
: only hand you can get some value out before the flush card comes. But it
: gives villian a lot of room for bluffing and betting for thin value whether he
: draws out or not. I see a -ev situation over long run if your villian is decent
: simply because you are out of position.
: Now if villian does not have a draw, then you are beat almost 100% if your
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 18 First of all, I never suggested call call call.
And second of all, you are out of position. So you have a huge disadvantage
here either way. So if we assume that check call and your play both have -ev play, do you prefer to play a bigger pot in negative ev situation or smaller pot?
If you think bluffing out of position can give you a better ev out of any
other play, you can certainly do it with any two card. I highly doubt it.
【在 p*******p 的大作中提到】
: so just call call call and see show down, how that play gonna be +ev, I
: seriously wondering
:
: the
: the
: whether he
: decent
| p*******p
发帖数: 13670 | 19 it's you keep saying pocket 7s have huge SDV, but you have to go be able to
show down to have a show down value, how you gonna go to show down without
calling? hoping your opponent is weak and check for you? I highly doubt it
disadvantage
ev play, do you prefer to play a bigger pot in negative ev situation or
smaller pot?
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: First of all, I never suggested call call call.
: And second of all, you are out of position. So you have a huge disadvantage
: here either way. So if we assume that check call and your play both have -ev play, do you prefer to play a bigger pot in negative ev situation or smaller pot?
: If you think bluffing out of position can give you a better ev out of any
: other play, you can certainly do it with any two card. I highly doubt it.
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 20 check call flop. lead turn for pot control and protect your equity in a
smaller pot if you are indeed ahead. If you get raised on turn, i can assure
you that you are behind most of the time unless it is a miniraise. If you
get called, you can consider check call or check fold river depending on
sizing, board structure and villian.
The difference between this line and your line is just 1 free card on turn. I do not think you can prevent that simply because you are out of position and your hand is too weak. You pretect your equity on the turn just like how you played but with a much smaller pot. I can also tell you that I get a lot of weaker hand to call turn and check river behind like A high or smaller pocket pairs. | | | p*******p
发帖数: 13670 | 21 so it's call call call or call call fold, right? first of all ,assume you
call ccall, the pot is about the same size as the way I played, and I can
assure you most of the time you will be hind in this way too. I don't see
any showdown valuehere. Second of all, call call fold, then ,no show down.
assure
you
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: check call flop. lead turn for pot control and protect your equity in a
: smaller pot if you are indeed ahead. If you get raised on turn, i can assure
: you that you are behind most of the time unless it is a miniraise. If you
: get called, you can consider check call or check fold river depending on
: sizing, board structure and villian.
: The difference between this line and your line is just 1 free card on turn. I do not think you can prevent that simply because you are out of position and your hand is too weak. You pretect your equity on the turn just like how you played but with a much smaller pot. I can also tell you that I get a lot of weaker hand to call turn and check river behind like A high or smaller pocket pairs.
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 22 call bet call/fold...
btw, if you do not think you have SDV with your pocket 7s on that board vs
this villian, you should check fold flop.. why would you try to bluff someone's over pair on that board out of position? It will definitely take more than 1 barrel. Even if you shove river, he still got a high chance to call you down with pocket Js. | W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 23 No way it is the same pot size.
he bets 4.5bb on flop your aise 15bb, pot is 37bb.
turn you bet 23bb and the pot is 83bb. and once called, you have a huge pot
with a pair of 7s. I do not like your chances even if you get to see a showdown on river.
if you call flop. flop pot is 15bb
turn you lead 9bb with a safe card. same pot odds to protect your equity on
the turn. the pot is only 33bb.
now on the river you can check call to catch some bluffs or probably just
check down to see a safe show down.
NL100, me 108BB, villian is 9/9, had me covered
fold to villian (mp5) raise to 3bb, I called at SB with 7c7h, BB fold
flop 6d3d6h (pot 7bb), I check villian bet 4.5BB, I check-raise to 15BB,
villian called
turn 2s (pot 37bb), I bet 23 BB, villian called
river Jh (pot 83 bb)
what he has? what's your best move for this hand?
【在 p*******p 的大作中提到】
: so it's call call call or call call fold, right? first of all ,assume you
: call ccall, the pot is about the same size as the way I played, and I can
: assure you most of the time you will be hind in this way too. I don't see
: any showdown valuehere. Second of all, call call fold, then ,no show down.
:
: assure
: you
|
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