g****l
发帖数: 644 | 1 Yeah~~~ I just started reading AM yesterday. Finally got a copy from
xiaolong :D
But I just love VO2max test. Run to exhaustion. |
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R*****s
发帖数: 41236 | 2 AM上有啊, 和Maximal heart rate百分比：
VO2max(interval) 93-95%
Lactate Threshold(Tempo) 82-91%
Marathon pace 79-88%
Long/Medium long 74-84%
General aerobic(Easy) 70-81%
Recovery <76%
Jack Danniel的也差不多， 心律这东西参考一下就行了，
不同水平的人差异很大的。。。 |
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c*******r
发帖数: 13580 | 3 if you are talking about VO2max sessions, you can do so by climbing steep
hills. |
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m**k
发帖数: 18660 | 4 同意。interval除了练Vo2Max以外，还可以练fast tissue?
fast tissue在你type I疲劳的时候，可以顶上? |
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f*******d
发帖数: 12693 | 5 去年给今年的计划就是要BQ，并且10/10是个好日子，想在芝加哥完成这个愿望，结果没
能做到。
总计从4月底开始，一共按照AM第一版的70MPW计划训练了24周，中间反反复复有得有失
，值得写个总结，分析得失，顺便也为3周以后的Fresno鼓鼓劲。
从训练计划，执行，饮食，伤病防治，比赛本身，训练后的恢复各方面都有体会，下面
一一分篇讲讲。
训练计划
训练计划是成功的第一步，挑选一个适合自己的计划并且好好贯彻始终是非常重要的。
去年我采用了AM的55MPW计划，感觉对自己的帮助相当大，水平提高了一大块，今年肯定
还是用它。去年的问题有以下几个，今年要达到目标就必须解决。
1. 速度耐力。LT和VO2Max对我来说一贯是最大的问题，先天不足后天弥补是需要很大努
力的。tempo一直比需要的速度差了好几秒，导致我比赛时一定要用离LT非常近的速度去
跑，比别人容易crash是自然了。Interval跟不上，LT自然也难提高。
2. 后10K的问题。通常最后10K我的速度会掉很多，身体会非常痛苦。很大一部分由1引
起，但是和long run不够，质量不够也有很大关系。
其实这两个问题恰恰反映了... 阅读全帖 |
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b***i
发帖数: 10018 | 6 我准备完成波马的训练后看情况再决定，如果vo2max比较差，就练3k-5k，如果LT比较
差就练10k-21k。 |
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c*******r
发帖数: 13580 | 7 Armstrong did his first NYCM just under 3 hours and it almost killed him,
although he had an extraordinarily high VO2max, something in the 80s
performance. (For those who didn't
Contador could run a marathon. |
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z********0
发帖数: 9013 | 8 Happen to see this interesting article. (maybe it's old)
http://www.sportsscientists.com/2008/10/15959-sub-2-hour-marathon.html
1:59:59...will we ever see a sub-2 hour marathon?
It's been just over a week now since Haile Gebrselassie ran himself into
history (again) when he broke his own world record by running 2:03:59 in
Berlin. More important, he also broke the 2:04 barrier, which gave even more
impetus to the usual speculation that accompanies a world record. At the
time, I wrote that we'd lo... 阅读全帖 |
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R*****s
发帖数: 41236 | 9 俺的训练比较怪，俺是先train VO2max, 再train LT, 最后练longrun..
所以俺计划刚开始的longrun跑得非常慢 ：） 后面才开始慢慢提速。。
不过最后提速也提不到ＭＰ ：（
为啥会crash, 我想了想几个原因：
1. peak week的里程提高了， 加到了70mpw. 而且我自作主张把几个18迈改成了20迈。
2. 体力已经不行了， 18周, 70mpw的体力消耗非常大。
3. 尝试speedstar4, 腿不习惯。
at
training. |
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b***i
发帖数: 10018 | 10 不怪不怪，我也准备先练vo2max。不过long run和tempo是一直在练的。 |
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w****1
发帖数: 4931 | 11 1. if you are tired, it's better that you know it. Upon reflection on my
recent injuries, I think the main cause
was that I arranged my speed work to be part of a mid long run, the day
following typically a 10-mile GA run
which isn't necessarily slow. I'm supposed to feel a bit tired towards the
end of that mid-long run, but instead
I was dosed with endorphin and cannot feel any fatigue. Doing speed work in
that kind of situation greatly
increased my chance of getting injured. Now I feel that th... 阅读全帖 |
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b*******e
发帖数: 1150 | 12 I like the AM style too, tempo or vo2max always after a rest/recovery day.
Running fast with tired legs are really easy to get injured I guess.
in |
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w****1
发帖数: 4931 | 13 I would replace aerobic ability by (leg) muscle endurance, -- not just the
endurance during a single run, but
how fast the leg muscles recover over the period of a few hours or a few
days. I don't find base training
benefit cardiovascular fitness too much, but the latter is picked up quickly
through VO2max sessions. |
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c*******r
发帖数: 13580 | 14 does that mean VO2max doesn't really help much in a long run?
effective
, |
|
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T****a
发帖数: 4651 | 16 if you train for marathon, you should focus on doing the opposite. ie. run
faster at low HR.
there are speedwork (eg. VO2MAX)that you may want push for high HR, but
relative speaking they are a small portion of your training and you should
always keep it short and sweet. |
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w****1
发帖数: 4931 | 17 This fall has been a roller coaster for me running wise. After my DNF at the
24 hour around the lake race at the end of July, I started to rebuild.
from August 2nd:
week 1 - 47 miles, mostly untimed very easy runs
week 2 - 71 miles, built up mileage with a lot of easy runs and doubles
week 3 - 70 miles
week 4 - 74 miles, gaining speed through two VO2max sessions, 20 mi LR
week 5 - 74 miles, with hard 18 mi pace run
week 6 - 59 miles. first sign of overtraining - right AT injury, recovered
quickl... 阅读全帖 |
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d******g
发帖数: 550 | 18 跑得好啊。
要有心跳记录就更好了。可以多几次比较，看看自己vo2max有没有提高了。
另外你的lap interval设0.1mi
会很快把gps存满吧。 |
|
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m**k
发帖数: 18660 | 20 zan. so many races in cp huh? by the way. hill is same interval- to
improve vo2max... |
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b***i
发帖数: 10018 | 21 BQ pace是7:17/mi。
我BQ比赛之前24天跑过19迈，其中13迈MP平均6:57/mi, 平均心率157.5。
比赛前10天跑过一次medium long run 12迈，其中的8迈平均7:17/mi，平均心率153。
（前一天刚跑完3 x 1 mile vo2max interval)
我最大心率188，静止心率37。 |
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w****1
发帖数: 4931 | 22 I feel that cycling can be used to improve your VO2max (if you really push
it on the bike), but not so much in
terms of the muscle strength/endurance needed for running. |
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w****1
发帖数: 4931 | 23 Interesting.
Speaking of the effect of cross training on VO2max, I had a little chat with
a high school cross country coach
last week and he told me that once Joan Samuelson visited their school and
told them the story of her training
when her legs were put in a cast for weeks. She did her workouts on the
stationary bike (presumably quite
intensely). When she got back on the road and did a 10-mile run, she was
surprised to find out that she was
stronger than before the injury.
you
consume
the
a |
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w****1
发帖数: 4931 | 24 Had a nice run with Dr. Lieberman again yesterday, heard some interesting
stuff.
1. They conducted a research on 14-16 yr old kids in a Kenyan school. These
are averaging kids, completely untrained athletically (except that they run
between school and home daily). Their average VO2max is the mid 70s.
2. There are tons of Kenyan runners who have never been coached and train by
themselves, who would easily win most of the marathon races in the US.
3. Mary Keitany told him that she will win this ye... 阅读全帖 |
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d*i
发帖数: 9453 | 25 把你以前vo2max训练follow的plan贴一下吧？ |
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b***i
发帖数: 10018 | 26 你说的是Advanced marathoning里面的vo2max训练？在置定里有。 |
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d*i
发帖数: 9453 | 27 那你作vo2max的时候，心率能到mhr的多少？
另外你自己的mhr是测的还是估测的？ |
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b***i
发帖数: 10018 | 28 我mhr是测的。做vo2max时，一般是按照5k pace跑，而不是心跳，心跳最多能到mhr的
95%。 |
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b********k
发帖数: 427 | 29 要说游泳单位时间能耗是跑步的三倍，我觉得有点不靠谱。
就拿睡袋来说吧，他跑一小时少说也有1000卡。要说游泳一小时消耗3000卡，我不太相
信。
一个人消耗的能量跟他的Vo2Max是密切相关的。一个人单位时间内消耗的氧气，不管是
用来游泳还是跑步，燃烧的脂肪应该差不了多少。所以说不管哪像有氧运动，只要是尽
最大努力，能耗应该是差不多的。
个人观点，抛砖引玉吧。 |
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S*********g
发帖数: 7653 | 30
good to know that the energy cost is related to VO2MAX |
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c*******r
发帖数: 13580 | 31 Exactly, look at the formula, it's a function of the number of heart beats,
the body weight and VO2max. Basically, estimating the energy consumption
based on the sport is totally nonsense. Comparing sports in that way is also
comparing apples and oranges. I can easily pump up my HR to 170 when I am
dashing a 50 meter breaststroke, I can also cruise at 130BPM for a hours. Do
you honestly believe these two activities have the same power output? |
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b***i
发帖数: 10018 | 32 我两年来大多数的跑步都带心率计。我的体会是，除了不同的训练(recovery run,
easy run, marathon pace run, tempo run, vo2max)要求不同的心率之外，从时间上
看，心率也是有很多变化的。短期内(几天到几个星期内)会受天气、跑步路面、坡度、
身体状态、疲劳度、是否脱水等因素影响。长期上（几个月以上）则可以用来检查训练
效果，如果训练得当，同样心率，速度会变快。从训练的角度看，甚至可以说，时间和
心率比pace和距离更有用。
当然也不用每一次跑步都带着心率计，我现在easy run就不带心率计了。 |
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b***i
发帖数: 10018 | 33 上一次比赛是1/16的5k，18:09。之后跑的interval不超过3迈，最近6周也没跑过
vo2max interval，都是以easy/long/M pace/tempo。最近连续两周100迈，不准备
taper。
3/27跑10k，平坦的course，5个U-turn，若干90度turn，气温预计50F，晴。
猜得最准的第一名3个包子，第二名2个包子，第三名1个包子。 |
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R*****s
发帖数: 41236 | 34 HyperSpeed4 不算贵， 打完折40刀左右。。
那个VO2max是从runningahead上面抄下来的， 没啥意义。。 |
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b***i
发帖数: 10018 | 35 算不准，因为ultra跟vo2max关系不大。 |
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f*******d
发帖数: 12693 | 36 这玩意要是跟VO2Max有关的话，就没有老头拿冠军这回事了。 |
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r****y
发帖数: 3412 | 37 是这么回事...水有影响..我家这个烂透了..体重都不准..比gym都沉三磅.可能以前太
胖压坏了..也就是个参考吧..还不太靠谱..我问哪个准的説特别贵..估计算医疗用途了
..只是很好奇..还狠好奇VO2max...gym虽然也給测..不过估计也超贵..都是給专业人士
弄的..菜鸟整个土法知道大概其就不错了.. |
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g****l
发帖数: 644 | 38 那啥BF%，喝杯咖啡撒泡吁吁都不一样，随便看看就是了
vo2max也有土法，20-m shuttle run，还有step test都行
身边要是有大学，看人家kinesiology或者exercise science有啥试验么，去了一般都
给测，还给
钱 |
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b***i
发帖数: 10018 | 39 赞!
tempo和marathon pace一般跑多长，什么pace?
有跑vo2max interval吗？ |
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y******n
发帖数: 4527 | 40 今天上午冒雨去跑了个5K回来，就是几天前我说有奖金的那个比赛。果然高手如云，前
三名都是sub 16。我跑了18'13''，名列第14名，年龄组第四名，差一点就拿到cash
prize，有点可惜。
早上7点起床，发现外面瓢泼大雨。7点半的时候一个打算陪同的朋友打电话过来，问我
还跑不，我说不确定，过会再说吧。又过了10分钟，雨势稍歇，我就决定了去参加。比
赛是在new bedford，MA，从我这里开车50分钟左右。到达后报名拿号，然后冒着毛毛
细雨开始热身。
比赛10点开始，临开始之前雨竟然停了，what a surprise，温度正好，又没有大太阳
。我站到了第一排。旁边有两个小孩，10岁左右的，被主持人劝退到第二排，说第一排
是给5:00 pace的人站的。比赛开始后我就冲到了第一集团，跟着警车跑。大约跑了0.2
miles，几个步履轻盈的人从身边超了过去，我看了一下GPS，5:00的pace，holy crap
。赶紧淡定的慢下来，让大家先走。第一迈有一个人报时5'52''，比我的305慢了一点。
第二迈全是缓上坡，整整一个迈，我一边控制别超速，一边还超过一些人。305上显示
... 阅读全帖 |
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w****1
发帖数: 4931 | 41 still way off. Lance Armstrong was never good at running considering how
high his VO2max is.
Nick Symmonds at 800m would be the equivalent of Ryan Hall at the marathon.
I'm talking about the very best runner in the US. |
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R*****s
发帖数: 41236 | 42 10K喝5次水应该是不会脱水了。。。。10K的瓶颈应该也不是VO2max,
赛后看不出来的，只要停下来，乳酸很快就会消耗掉了。。。
不过天热肯定影响状态，心跳比温度低的时候高（一部分血液帮助散热）
那是肯定的了。。 |
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y******n
发帖数: 4527 | 43 It will be much better to come up a list of jargons based on the theory of
distance running.
e.g. HR, HR zone
Easy
Tempo/LT
Interval/VO2max
...
Will you please do that? Thanks in advance |
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y******n
发帖数: 4527 | 44 It will be much better to come up a list of jargons based on the theory of
distance running.
e.g. HR, HR zone
Easy
Tempo/LT
Interval/VO2max
...
Will you please do that? Thanks in advance |
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n**d
发帖数: 164 | 45 his vo2max 88 to 92, amazing! |
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R*****s
发帖数: 41236 | 46 有氧耐力： easy run/long run
混氧训练： VO2max training, Interval
耐酸训练： Lactate Threshold training, Tempo run
长跑就这么些东东， 翻来覆去， 关键是要多跑。。。。 |
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d**c
发帖数: 588 | 47 我不明白的问题就在这些中文概念上.
他说的耐酸训练, 字面上听起来象lactate threshhold, 可是他的训练方法却象是
interval, 而不是我们说的tempo run.
这个"混氧" 就更不明白了, 你肯定是VO2max吗?
概念不重要, 我只是好奇而已. |
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R*****s
发帖数: 41236 | 48 我上次贴的那个波马跑2：30多的也是跑4x1mi当speed work,
Jack Daniels 是不推荐一个Interval跑5分钟以上，
我以前也是跑6x1200m, 后来发现4x1600m也能接受，
当然速度不是很快。。。
Marathon的Interval主要是练VO2max, 而不是speed,
所以long interval的效果要好于short interval... |
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b***i
发帖数: 10018 | 49 我的理解:
这是Andy Palmer里面的4x(1600m at 77%-90% max HR+400m jog)，是tempo interval
或者cruise interval，主要是练Lactate Threshold的，不是Pfitzinger说的vo2max
run或者Daniels说的interval。后者一般是3-5x(1600m at 90%-95% max HR or 5k
pace + 800m jog) |
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w*****h
发帖数: 1770 | 50 我的拙见：
几点可能性：
1 weekly milage可能不够。 50对目标4小时可能够了，对再快点可能勉强。
2 每天的长度，pace如何安排的？ 是不是基本不变？ 如果能长短结合， 效果要好些
。 比如AM计划中， 9mile VO2max(5x600m interval)第二天15 medium long, 肌肉在
前一天speed work的疲劳下继续10+的长跑， 很好的模拟了比赛中后段，我感觉效果就
很好。
3 目标pace setting。 还是要结合自己long run和最近10k, half的比赛来定， 这样
不会开始太快。
4 水。 周日的温度，脱水非常快。不知你是如何在水站补充的。 我是每个水站都没
有放过，不过每次就喝最多两口。
希望有所帮助。 这也是个重点攻关项目了。 :)
分析可能如下
1) 天气原因，这天气温的确不算完美，但是也不能说特别糟糕，另外8-9点
根本还没那么晒，那么热。
2) 时间原因，平时我的训练大多是早晨。虽然在中国夏天有跑长，但是那个
pace慢多了.最后两次longrun都是大概5:30左右开始。一般9点就跑完了。
而比... 阅读全帖 |
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