r*x
发帖数: 1055 | 1 这阵子有不少关于医保国有化的争论，很多善良的群众被媒体和别有用心的舆论误导，
以为保险公司和保险制度是问题的根本，把全民国有化保险当成宝一样供起来，正好落
入了政府避重就轻的圈套。
很多人对于保险公司的认识还都停留在‘我交保费保险公司赔我钱’的高度上，那么保
费是怎么设定的呢？拿医保来举一个简单的例子，假设保险公司有一万个顾客，每人每
年付100块的保费，如果在这一年中如果没人生病的话保险公司就赚100万，如此的暴利
听上去实在是很罪恶很黑暗，然而只要有百分之一的顾客生病进医院甚至动了手术，那
这100万就根本不够了，保险公司还得倒贴。所以保险公司的定价是需要基于谨慎的统
计分析，根据当地人口的健康状况和历史数据来估计潜在的患病人数和严重程度以及相
应的治疗费用，同时还要考虑竞争对手的定价。另外一个容易被人忽视的事实就是，健
康的年轻人多半认为自己身体好不容易生病，花钱买保险是浪费，而越是体弱多病年纪
越大的群体越愿意买保险，这样在保险公司的一万个顾客中，可能生病住院的人的比例
就远比随机抽样的一万人生病住院的比例要高得多了。
眼下吵得很凶的一个说法就是保险公司收费越来越高，是造成群众 |
c****n
发帖数: 21367 | 2 看看索罗斯最近的访谈吧，还是老头敢说真话
“这不是国有化(nationalize)，而是重资本化(re-capitalize)”
again and again, 把税钱送给资本家绝对不叫国有化，以任何所有权
形式都只是彻头彻尾的抢劫
【在 r*x 的大作中提到】
: 这阵子有不少关于医保国有化的争论，很多善良的群众被媒体和别有用心的舆论误导，
: 以为保险公司和保险制度是问题的根本，把全民国有化保险当成宝一样供起来，正好落
: 入了政府避重就轻的圈套。
: 很多人对于保险公司的认识还都停留在‘我交保费保险公司赔我钱’的高度上，那么保
: 费是怎么设定的呢？拿医保来举一个简单的例子，假设保险公司有一万个顾客，每人每
: 年付100块的保费，如果在这一年中如果没人生病的话保险公司就赚100万，如此的暴利
: 听上去实在是很罪恶很黑暗，然而只要有百分之一的顾客生病进医院甚至动了手术，那
: 这100万就根本不够了，保险公司还得倒贴。所以保险公司的定价是需要基于谨慎的统
: 计分析，根据当地人口的健康状况和历史数据来估计潜在的患病人数和严重程度以及相
: 应的治疗费用，同时还要考虑竞争对手的定价。另外一个容易被人忽视的事实就是，健
|
a***o
发帖数: 3734 | 3 基本上支持obama计划的人都缺乏common sense。
【在 r*x 的大作中提到】
: 这阵子有不少关于医保国有化的争论，很多善良的群众被媒体和别有用心的舆论误导，
: 以为保险公司和保险制度是问题的根本，把全民国有化保险当成宝一样供起来，正好落
: 入了政府避重就轻的圈套。
: 很多人对于保险公司的认识还都停留在‘我交保费保险公司赔我钱’的高度上，那么保
: 费是怎么设定的呢？拿医保来举一个简单的例子，假设保险公司有一万个顾客，每人每
: 年付100块的保费，如果在这一年中如果没人生病的话保险公司就赚100万，如此的暴利
: 听上去实在是很罪恶很黑暗，然而只要有百分之一的顾客生病进医院甚至动了手术，那
: 这100万就根本不够了，保险公司还得倒贴。所以保险公司的定价是需要基于谨慎的统
: 计分析，根据当地人口的健康状况和历史数据来估计潜在的患病人数和严重程度以及相
: 应的治疗费用，同时还要考虑竞争对手的定价。另外一个容易被人忽视的事实就是，健
|
G*********o
发帖数: 49669 | 4 你在保险公司工作？
【在 r*x 的大作中提到】
: 这阵子有不少关于医保国有化的争论，很多善良的群众被媒体和别有用心的舆论误导，
: 以为保险公司和保险制度是问题的根本，把全民国有化保险当成宝一样供起来，正好落
: 入了政府避重就轻的圈套。
: 很多人对于保险公司的认识还都停留在‘我交保费保险公司赔我钱’的高度上，那么保
: 费是怎么设定的呢？拿医保来举一个简单的例子，假设保险公司有一万个顾客，每人每
: 年付100块的保费，如果在这一年中如果没人生病的话保险公司就赚100万，如此的暴利
: 听上去实在是很罪恶很黑暗，然而只要有百分之一的顾客生病进医院甚至动了手术，那
: 这100万就根本不够了，保险公司还得倒贴。所以保险公司的定价是需要基于谨慎的统
: 计分析，根据当地人口的健康状况和历史数据来估计潜在的患病人数和严重程度以及相
: 应的治疗费用，同时还要考虑竞争对手的定价。另外一个容易被人忽视的事实就是，健
|
r*x
发帖数: 1055 | 5 yes, but not health insurance
【在 G*********o 的大作中提到】
: 你在保险公司工作？
|
r*****g
发帖数: 104 | 6 如果每个人都被强制买保险，或者通过增税间接被强制，那么必然结果就是大多数人都
会像进了Buffet一样，要把自己付出的那一份狠狠地吃回来，过去本来有点小病撑撑就
过去了，这下就多半一定要跑一趟医院才不觉得亏。这么多人跑医院的话，必然的结果
就是大夫护士和设备的资源短缺 -- 这已经在加拿大这些地方成为现实，比如要排六个
月的长队才能轮到之类的事情。
Then let those "go to hospital for no good" wait on the line for 6 month. Or
, the co-pay can be as high as 100$ per visit. In Canada, you will get
treated promptly of there is a urgency. My buddy was sent to hospital
instantly when he broke his leg on the field in Tornoto.
国营保险的用户群的生病比例要比私营保险低得多，私营保险的赔率高居
不下，只好靠提高保费来维持经营， |
r*x
发帖数: 1055 | 7 I won't even bother discussing with you
1. you aparently didn't read what I wrote
2. I don't understand your english, what the heck is 'Magic Johnson can cure his aids by many other not'?
Or
【在 r*****g 的大作中提到】
: 如果每个人都被强制买保险，或者通过增税间接被强制，那么必然结果就是大多数人都
: 会像进了Buffet一样，要把自己付出的那一份狠狠地吃回来，过去本来有点小病撑撑就
: 过去了，这下就多半一定要跑一趟医院才不觉得亏。这么多人跑医院的话，必然的结果
: 就是大夫护士和设备的资源短缺 -- 这已经在加拿大这些地方成为现实，比如要排六个
: 月的长队才能轮到之类的事情。
: Then let those "go to hospital for no good" wait on the line for 6 month. Or
: , the co-pay can be as high as 100$ per visit. In Canada, you will get
: treated promptly of there is a urgency. My buddy was sent to hospital
: instantly when he broke his leg on the field in Tornoto.
: 国营保险的用户群的生病比例要比私营保险低得多，私营保险的赔率高居
|
l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 8 支持楼主, 说得很好.
记得一个以前的台湾同事就讲过这个问题.
说当时台湾都是全民医保. 结果发现有人曾经在一年里面看过360次以上的医生. 这种
制度没有办法sustain的. |
|
r*****g
发帖数: 104 | 9 2. I don't understand your english, what the heck is 'Magic Johnson can cure
his aids by many other not'?
==> typo
'Magic Johnson can cure his aids BUT many other not'? |
l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 10 废话, 有钱的人可以用贵的药保证aids不发作,穷的人当然只能用点便宜的药了.
这个和有钱人可以开mercedes,但穷人只能坐公车一样.
难道你要说这个不公平, 所以打算让所有的人都坐mercedes或者都坐公车?
这个世界的资源是有限的, 不可能所有的人都拥有平等的资源, 那么怎么分配? 肯努力
,聪明的,有能力的人当然拿的就多, 懒人,笨的人当然得的少一点而已.政府要保证的就
是大家机会都是平等的.这个平等也是相对平等而已,没有绝对的平等.
你的观点就是典型的左派观点,强调结果平等而不是机会平等.
Or
【在 r*****g 的大作中提到】
: 如果每个人都被强制买保险，或者通过增税间接被强制，那么必然结果就是大多数人都
: 会像进了Buffet一样，要把自己付出的那一份狠狠地吃回来，过去本来有点小病撑撑就
: 过去了，这下就多半一定要跑一趟医院才不觉得亏。这么多人跑医院的话，必然的结果
: 就是大夫护士和设备的资源短缺 -- 这已经在加拿大这些地方成为现实，比如要排六个
: 月的长队才能轮到之类的事情。
: Then let those "go to hospital for no good" wait on the line for 6 month. Or
: , the co-pay can be as high as 100$ per visit. In Canada, you will get
: treated promptly of there is a urgency. My buddy was sent to hospital
: instantly when he broke his leg on the field in Tornoto.
: 国营保险的用户群的生病比例要比私营保险低得多，私营保险的赔率高居
|
|
|
r*****g
发帖数: 104 | 11 Let me cpoy and paste, no word changed:
Many rich Canadian buy insurance in US. The private insurance would be
designed for the riches. Magic Johnson can cure his aids by many other not.
Will you go to LA and protest it? With low cost insurance, the cost cutting
will propagate to doctors, pharma's.
Social justice is: the rich can drive BMW, but he has to share the road.
废话, 有钱的人可以用贵的药保证aids不发作,穷的人当然只能用点便宜的药了.
这个和有钱人可以开mercedes,但穷人只能坐公车一样.
难道你要说这个不公平, 所以打算让所有的人都坐mercedes或者都坐公车?
这个世界的资源是有限的, 不可能所有 |
m*****d
发帖数: 309 | 12 有点道理
【在 r*x 的大作中提到】
: 这阵子有不少关于医保国有化的争论，很多善良的群众被媒体和别有用心的舆论误导，
: 以为保险公司和保险制度是问题的根本，把全民国有化保险当成宝一样供起来，正好落
: 入了政府避重就轻的圈套。
: 很多人对于保险公司的认识还都停留在‘我交保费保险公司赔我钱’的高度上，那么保
: 费是怎么设定的呢？拿医保来举一个简单的例子，假设保险公司有一万个顾客，每人每
: 年付100块的保费，如果在这一年中如果没人生病的话保险公司就赚100万，如此的暴利
: 听上去实在是很罪恶很黑暗，然而只要有百分之一的顾客生病进医院甚至动了手术，那
: 这100万就根本不够了，保险公司还得倒贴。所以保险公司的定价是需要基于谨慎的统
: 计分析，根据当地人口的健康状况和历史数据来估计潜在的患病人数和严重程度以及相
: 应的治疗费用，同时还要考虑竞争对手的定价。另外一个容易被人忽视的事实就是，健
|
L****n
发帖数: 12932 | 13
如果每个人都被强制买保险，或者通过增税间接被强制，那么必然结果就是大多数
人都会像进了Buffet一样，要把自己付出的那一份狠狠地吃回来，过去本来有点小病撑
撑就过去了，这下就多半一定要跑一趟医院才不觉得亏。这么多人跑医院的话，必然的
结果就是大夫护士和设备的资源短缺 -- 这已经在加拿大这些地方成为现实，比如要排
六个月的长队才能轮到之类的事情。
保险还是有copay的， 现在有保险的人哪个没事往医院跑的？
现在的医疗保险制度和医疗成本都有问题， 前者保险公司赚取的利润应该得到控制。
既然这是一个带公益性质的行业（没钱也能看病）， 行业的管理就应该类似其他带公
益性质的公司比如utility，不能如现在的唯利是图。 后者超过一半以上的cost来源于
诉讼造成的defensive practice和dealing with insurance的administrative， 这两
者都是对医疗结果有百害而无一益的花费。 这个bbs上众多的无脑儿直接把医疗成本和
医生工资划等号。 要知道医生的take home pay是整个医疗成本中most cost
effective的部分， 也是
【在 r*x 的大作中提到】
: I won't even bother discussing with you
: 1. you aparently didn't read what I wrote
: 2. I don't understand your english, what the heck is 'Magic Johnson can cure his aids by many other not'?
:
: Or
|
p***0
发帖数: 22 | 14 The no brainers are only staring at doc's wallets, but ignore the key points
such as astronomical number of lawsuits, multi-million expenditures on
people with vegetation state or hundreds of thousand dollars medication that
may or may not extend the terminal life to 2-3 months.All these are never
being mentioned by this parasite-in-chief.
。
【在 L****n 的大作中提到】
:
: 如果每个人都被强制买保险，或者通过增税间接被强制，那么必然结果就是大多数
: 人都会像进了Buffet一样，要把自己付出的那一份狠狠地吃回来，过去本来有点小病撑
: 撑就过去了，这下就多半一定要跑一趟医院才不觉得亏。这么多人跑医院的话，必然的
: 结果就是大夫护士和设备的资源短缺 -- 这已经在加拿大这些地方成为现实，比如要排
: 六个月的长队才能轮到之类的事情。
: 保险还是有copay的， 现在有保险的人哪个没事往医院跑的？
: 现在的医疗保险制度和医疗成本都有问题， 前者保险公司赚取的利润应该得到控制。
: 既然这是一个带公益性质的行业（没钱也能看病）， 行业的管理就应该类似其他带公
: 益性质的公司比如utility，不能如现在的唯利是图。 后者超过一半以上的cost来源于
|
r*x
发帖数: 1055 | 15 People keep saying insurance companies make too much money, it is just
simply not true, all the earnings are public data that you can easily find
online, and you can compare insurance companies' earning with others and see
if you can still say the same
A few more facts you need to keep in mind:
1. Insurance companies are required by Fed and states to keep a minimum
amount of reserve, the money that has to stay liquid, i.e. can't be used for
long term investment, so to make sure the policy holder
【在 L****n 的大作中提到】
:
: 如果每个人都被强制买保险，或者通过增税间接被强制，那么必然结果就是大多数
: 人都会像进了Buffet一样，要把自己付出的那一份狠狠地吃回来，过去本来有点小病撑
: 撑就过去了，这下就多半一定要跑一趟医院才不觉得亏。这么多人跑医院的话，必然的
: 结果就是大夫护士和设备的资源短缺 -- 这已经在加拿大这些地方成为现实，比如要排
: 六个月的长队才能轮到之类的事情。
: 保险还是有copay的， 现在有保险的人哪个没事往医院跑的？
: 现在的医疗保险制度和医疗成本都有问题， 前者保险公司赚取的利润应该得到控制。
: 既然这是一个带公益性质的行业（没钱也能看病）， 行业的管理就应该类似其他带公
: 益性质的公司比如utility，不能如现在的唯利是图。 后者超过一半以上的cost来源于
|
L****n
发帖数: 12932 | 16 well, look at this for yourself: http://sickforprofit.com/ceos/
before this financial crisis that make the wall street executive pay grabs
the headline, it was health care insurance CEO's pay that dominated the CEO
income list. in 2005/2006, over half of the top 10 incomer were healthcare
insurance CEOs.
and even after paying out this astronomical salary, the insurance company's
profit had skyrocketed-for example United Health: their profit doubled from
3.8B in 2004 to 7.8B in 2007. i don't have |
r*x
发帖数: 1055 | 17
CEO
s
from
can
profit
Did you factor in how much the malpractice amounts/freqency, drug price,
hospital expense have gone up over those years? that's ultimately where the
insurance companies have to pay to.
Also, as to CEO's salary, it is not just insurance industry, it is every where. there is only one CEO in one company, even if you cut his salary by 80%, it still wouldn't make a big difference overall. As to regular employees working in an insurance company, I am sure most of them are paid m
【在 L****n 的大作中提到】
: well, look at this for yourself: http://sickforprofit.com/ceos/
: before this financial crisis that make the wall street executive pay grabs
: the headline, it was health care insurance CEO's pay that dominated the CEO
: income list. in 2005/2006, over half of the top 10 incomer were healthcare
: insurance CEOs.
: and even after paying out this astronomical salary, the insurance company's
: profit had skyrocketed-for example United Health: their profit doubled from
: 3.8B in 2004 to 7.8B in 2007. i don't have
|
b*w
发帖数: 2062 | 18 现在的问题就是，美国的医疗好像是在一个理想化的泡沫里边：要给每一个公民提供最
好的医疗服务，就好像要给每个人配辆奔驰宝马，怎么能持久？
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: 废话, 有钱的人可以用贵的药保证aids不发作,穷的人当然只能用点便宜的药了.
: 这个和有钱人可以开mercedes,但穷人只能坐公车一样.
: 难道你要说这个不公平, 所以打算让所有的人都坐mercedes或者都坐公车?
: 这个世界的资源是有限的, 不可能所有的人都拥有平等的资源, 那么怎么分配? 肯努力
: ,聪明的,有能力的人当然拿的就多, 懒人,笨的人当然得的少一点而已.政府要保证的就
: 是大家机会都是平等的.这个平等也是相对平等而已,没有绝对的平等.
: 你的观点就是典型的左派观点,强调结果平等而不是机会平等.
:
: Or
|
b*w
发帖数: 2062 | 19 但是有一点你没有提到，现在很多州的医疗保险业没有竞争的，这种情况消费者就是鱼
肉，引入竞争是必须的，但是绝对不应该是public option这一泡。
see
for
you
of
【在 r*x 的大作中提到】
: People keep saying insurance companies make too much money, it is just
: simply not true, all the earnings are public data that you can easily find
: online, and you can compare insurance companies' earning with others and see
: if you can still say the same
: A few more facts you need to keep in mind:
: 1. Insurance companies are required by Fed and states to keep a minimum
: amount of reserve, the money that has to stay liquid, i.e. can't be used for
: long term investment, so to make sure the policy holder
|
r*x
发帖数: 1055 | 20 This is not because insurance companies don't want competition, but because
each state has its own regulations on insurance, especially NY, its
regulation is so much more complicated than other states, insurance
companies have to handle NY business separately, which makes it nearly
impossible for cross-state competition.
Again, this is also something Obama avoided in his proposal. Fed has the
right to overwrite state, but this government just doesn't want to do it.
【在 b*w 的大作中提到】
: 但是有一点你没有提到，现在很多州的医疗保险业没有竞争的，这种情况消费者就是鱼
: 肉，引入竞争是必须的，但是绝对不应该是public option这一泡。
:
: see
: for
: you
: of
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b*w
发帖数: 2062 | 21 现在美国需要一些fed一级的标准化，从医保制度到行医保险等等，可惜这些因素还有
最关键的目前奇高的医疗费用、以及医疗系统的低效和浪费等等0巴马基本上都没有提。
because
【在 r*x 的大作中提到】
: This is not because insurance companies don't want competition, but because
: each state has its own regulations on insurance, especially NY, its
: regulation is so much more complicated than other states, insurance
: companies have to handle NY business separately, which makes it nearly
: impossible for cross-state competition.
: Again, this is also something Obama avoided in his proposal. Fed has the
: right to overwrite state, but this government just doesn't want to do it.
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a**t
发帖数: 3833 | 22 you are just afraid of our great healthcare system reform. This reform will
benefit poeple in economical disadvantages, so is a morally correct
american revolution.
because
【在 r*x 的大作中提到】
: This is not because insurance companies don't want competition, but because
: each state has its own regulations on insurance, especially NY, its
: regulation is so much more complicated than other states, insurance
: companies have to handle NY business separately, which makes it nearly
: impossible for cross-state competition.
: Again, this is also something Obama avoided in his proposal. Fed has the
: right to overwrite state, but this government just doesn't want to do it.
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B*D
发帖数: 5016 | 23 美国的医疗保险，管理费是20%，其他国家，比如最烂浪费最严重的加拿大
这个比例是5.5%
不是说其他不要改，但是保险的确赚太多钱
see
for
you
of
【在 r*x 的大作中提到】
: People keep saying insurance companies make too much money, it is just
: simply not true, all the earnings are public data that you can easily find
: online, and you can compare insurance companies' earning with others and see
: if you can still say the same
: A few more facts you need to keep in mind:
: 1. Insurance companies are required by Fed and states to keep a minimum
: amount of reserve, the money that has to stay liquid, i.e. can't be used for
: long term investment, so to make sure the policy holder
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L****n
发帖数: 12932 | 24
Did you factor in how much the malpractice amounts/freqency, drug price,
hospital expense have gone up over those years? that's ultimately where the
insurance companies have to pay to.
Malpractice payout is from Malpractice insurance, which is categorically
different from health insurance. the trend of malpractice lawsuit and payout
is flat to slightly down in recent years, thanks to the malpractice cap
enacted by several major states.
the number i posted for United Health is PROFIT, which is:
【在 r*x 的大作中提到】
: This is not because insurance companies don't want competition, but because
: each state has its own regulations on insurance, especially NY, its
: regulation is so much more complicated than other states, insurance
: companies have to handle NY business separately, which makes it nearly
: impossible for cross-state competition.
: Again, this is also something Obama avoided in his proposal. Fed has the
: right to overwrite state, but this government just doesn't want to do it.
|
s*****k
发帖数: 18 | 25 但凡想不劳而获的， 都喜欢民主党。
只要是想自己努力奋斗的， 就不会喜欢奥巴马所做这些所谓的change. |
g****y
发帖数: 72 | 26 保险公司除了利润，还养了一大批人，这些人大部分在做内耗而不生产价值的事。统一
保险，就不需要那么多人来做policy，来卖保险，来做帐。
总体肯定是省钱的。 |
b**********g
发帖数: 534 | 27 20%是胡扯,
占医疗保险市场半壁江山的blue plan, risk business profit loading是3%封顶.
【在 B*D 的大作中提到】
: 美国的医疗保险，管理费是20%，其他国家，比如最烂浪费最严重的加拿大
: 这个比例是5.5%
: 不是说其他不要改，但是保险的确赚太多钱
:
: see
: for
: you
: of
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b**********g
发帖数: 534 | 28 这些人创造了manage care的概念已经被证明降低了医疗保险成本增幅,
这些人比gov的雇员更有效的创造了价值,
fep cover everybody可以实现即刻的admin savings,
但是在没有竞争的环境里医疗保险成本增幅只会更大.
估计你不知道medicare真正的provider是各州的insurance company,
medicare要求各州至少两个insurer保证competition.
【在 g****y 的大作中提到】
: 保险公司除了利润，还养了一大批人，这些人大部分在做内耗而不生产价值的事。统一
: 保险，就不需要那么多人来做policy，来卖保险，来做帐。
: 总体肯定是省钱的。
|
b**********g
发帖数: 534 | 29 这年头,光说好的,集体忽视"谁买单"的问题.
will
【在 a**t 的大作中提到】
: you are just afraid of our great healthcare system reform. This reform will
: benefit poeple in economical disadvantages, so is a morally correct
: american revolution.
:
: because
|
t*****m
发帖数: 683 | 30 把amd和intel给合并了,通用cpu一定马上大减价是吧.
这些TG教育出来的人哪,真叫人无语
【在 g****y 的大作中提到】
: 保险公司除了利润，还养了一大批人，这些人大部分在做内耗而不生产价值的事。统一
: 保险，就不需要那么多人来做policy，来卖保险，来做帐。
: 总体肯定是省钱的。
|
|
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m*******e
发帖数: 1280 | 31 A few quick thoughts against your arguements:
1) Healthcare insurance for profit, it's morally wrong. Huge profits have
been made by these insurance companies. Those bloody profits benefits only
management and Wall Street.
2) Two certain outcomes of "for-profit": denied coverage of pre-conditioned
people, and denied claims for reasonable treatments.
3) Current healthcare reform is only a start, we can't expect it to solve
everything in one overnight. We need to start from somewhere first.
4) Why |
m*******e
发帖数: 1280 | 32 Don't agree with you.
I, for one, am willing to contribute to and pay for universal healthcare. I
think there are many other people like me who consider healthcare a basic
social responsibility.
And I also think there are chances that our total medical expenses may end
up less with a reformed healthcare system.
【在 s*****k 的大作中提到】
: 但凡想不劳而获的， 都喜欢民主党。
: 只要是想自己努力奋斗的， 就不会喜欢奥巴马所做这些所谓的change.
|
r*x
发帖数: 1055 | 33
public
Insurance companies are the only people complaining? apparently you don't
read or watch any news. So basically you are saying over 50% of the people in this country work for insurance companies.
【在 m*******e 的大作中提到】
: Don't agree with you.
: I, for one, am willing to contribute to and pay for universal healthcare. I
: think there are many other people like me who consider healthcare a basic
: social responsibility.
: And I also think there are chances that our total medical expenses may end
: up less with a reformed healthcare system.
|
m*******e
发帖数: 1280 | 34 rex,
my bad, I meant to say "the only people in healthcare sector".
Just today, it was reported that majority physicians (nearly 3/4) support
public option.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=112839232
One more thought about insurance companies. Most of your points about them
are very valid, they do make positive impacts on managed medicine. but I
also think you didn't pay enough attention to their greed. I didn't support
to drive the private sector die, but I am against the gr |
b*****l
发帖数: 1594 | 35 不是缺乏common sense，而是他们想要享受free lunch.
【在 a***o 的大作中提到】
: 基本上支持obama计划的人都缺乏common sense。
|
b*****l
发帖数: 1594 | 36 最好的例子就是马州的车险。政府强制规定必须保险，同时由行政控制保险公司所谓的
不可以歧视有交通肇事纪律的司机，结果就是不但没有节约大家任何费用，反倒成了仅
次于NJ的最贵州。一辆普通新车保险2k+，这还是最优良纪律的人的费用。
Or
【在 r*****g 的大作中提到】
: 如果每个人都被强制买保险，或者通过增税间接被强制，那么必然结果就是大多数人都
: 会像进了Buffet一样，要把自己付出的那一份狠狠地吃回来，过去本来有点小病撑撑就
: 过去了，这下就多半一定要跑一趟医院才不觉得亏。这么多人跑医院的话，必然的结果
: 就是大夫护士和设备的资源短缺 -- 这已经在加拿大这些地方成为现实，比如要排六个
: 月的长队才能轮到之类的事情。
: Then let those "go to hospital for no good" wait on the line for 6 month. Or
: , the co-pay can be as high as 100$ per visit. In Canada, you will get
: treated promptly of there is a urgency. My buddy was sent to hospital
: instantly when he broke his leg on the field in Tornoto.
: 国营保险的用户群的生病比例要比私营保险低得多，私营保险的赔率高居
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m******t
发帖数: 2416 | 37
Err... no. Consider this line of reasoning:
a. Imagine back in the days when there wasn't an insurance industry at all.
How did people deal with medical costs - or in general, "rainy days"? By
saving.
In fact, that is still the general idea used by the Amish people, and it has
apparently worked well for them, because none of them are otherwise covered
by any medical insurance.
b. So say you put aside a sizable amount of money just in case you or your
family
gets sick. Meanwhile, you realize tha
【在 m*******e 的大作中提到】
: A few quick thoughts against your arguements:
: 1) Healthcare insurance for profit, it's morally wrong. Huge profits have
: been made by these insurance companies. Those bloody profits benefits only
: management and Wall Street.
: 2) Two certain outcomes of "for-profit": denied coverage of pre-conditioned
: people, and denied claims for reasonable treatments.
: 3) Current healthcare reform is only a start, we can't expect it to solve
: everything in one overnight. We need to start from somewhere first.
: 4) Why
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r*x
发帖数: 1055 | 38
And you seriously believe what NPR said? It has been on the front end since
the day Obama started running for presidency.
I just saw a poll that out of over 1000 physicians surveyed, over 60%
opposed this plan, and 40% actually said they'd consider leaving their
practice if it passed.
BTW, today's rasmussen poll just reached a new high: 55% of people oppose it
now! as people read through this bill, more people will get turned off.
support
【在 m*******e 的大作中提到】
: rex,
: my bad, I meant to say "the only people in healthcare sector".
: Just today, it was reported that majority physicians (nearly 3/4) support
: public option.
: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=112839232
: One more thought about insurance companies. Most of your points about them
: are very valid, they do make positive impacts on managed medicine. but I
: also think you didn't pay enough attention to their greed. I didn't support
: to drive the private sector die, but I am against the gr
|
r*x
发帖数: 1055 | 39 unfortunately, some of people just don't have a clue
they just think like those left-wing hollywood actors
has
covered
sit
【在 m******t 的大作中提到】
:
: Err... no. Consider this line of reasoning:
: a. Imagine back in the days when there wasn't an insurance industry at all.
: How did people deal with medical costs - or in general, "rainy days"? By
: saving.
: In fact, that is still the general idea used by the Amish people, and it has
: apparently worked well for them, because none of them are otherwise covered
: by any medical insurance.
: b. So say you put aside a sizable amount of money just in case you or your
: family
|
r*x
发帖数: 1055 | 40
So food and medicine shouldn't be for profit either, right? and underwear:
everybody should wear it, if one can't afford underwear, there should be a
government program for that too, right?
conditioned
Again, the denial of pre-conditioned people: you shouldn't wait till you get
sick to buy insurance, the idea of having insurance is you buy it before
you get to that point. Grow a brain cell: if everybody waits till he gets
sick to buy insurance, what business can afford to provide service? what
【在 m*******e 的大作中提到】
: A few quick thoughts against your arguements:
: 1) Healthcare insurance for profit, it's morally wrong. Huge profits have
: been made by these insurance companies. Those bloody profits benefits only
: management and Wall Street.
: 2) Two certain outcomes of "for-profit": denied coverage of pre-conditioned
: people, and denied claims for reasonable treatments.
: 3) Current healthcare reform is only a start, we can't expect it to solve
: everything in one overnight. We need to start from somewhere first.
: 4) Why
|
|
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m****i
发帖数: 302 | 41 First, you have to be careful for any news coming out from NPR. It's always
cherry picking survey results left-wing likes. Futhermore, the research was
funded for an organization that favors health reform.
Then you see through the surface and find out what the doctors really say:
27% doctors want private options only, 10% would like public options only,
the so-called single payer system. 63% percent want both. So, here is the
scoreboard:
Which healthcare options doctors favor:
Private: 90% Publ
【在 m*******e 的大作中提到】
: rex,
: my bad, I meant to say "the only people in healthcare sector".
: Just today, it was reported that majority physicians (nearly 3/4) support
: public option.
: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=112839232
: One more thought about insurance companies. Most of your points about them
: are very valid, they do make positive impacts on managed medicine. but I
: also think you didn't pay enough attention to their greed. I didn't support
: to drive the private sector die, but I am against the gr
|
