s*********f
发帖数: 155 | 1 Live game. A mixture of weak tight and loose aggressive players. $1/$2 no
limit. I have about $350.
I have diamond ATs UTG and limp in. UTG+1 (~$130 stack) limps. A loose
aggressive player (~$140 stack) in
mid-position raises to $10. Two players call before me. I called. UTG+1
raises to $30. Two players call the
reraise before me. I call too.
Flop: Axx, all clubs.
I have top pair medium kicker and no idea where I am at. I check. UTG+1
checks. The loose aggressive player
bets $108 all-in. Folded to me, what should I do here? | t********t
发帖数: 5415 | 2 any image about utg+1? i'd fold here. | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 3 fold, your hand is weak.
UTG's pre-flop limp raise size (only $30 after 1 raiser and 3 callers) is
funny, and his check on the flop is weird too.
【在 s*********f 的大作中提到】
: Live game. A mixture of weak tight and loose aggressive players. $1/$2 no
: limit. I have about $350.
: I have diamond ATs UTG and limp in. UTG+1 (~$130 stack) limps. A loose
: aggressive player (~$140 stack) in
: mid-position raises to $10. Two players call before me. I called. UTG+1
: raises to $30. Two players call the
: reraise before me. I call too.
: Flop: Axx, all clubs.
: I have top pair medium kicker and no idea where I am at. I check. UTG+1
: checks. The loose aggressive player
| t********t
发帖数: 5415 | 4
is
he's got AK and don't know where he's at, just like hero?
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: fold, your hand is weak.
: UTG's pre-flop limp raise size (only $30 after 1 raiser and 3 callers) is
: funny, and his check on the flop is weird too.
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 5 if he got AK, he's not going anywhere with his stack and preflop action, i
expect him to c-bet first most of time. but on the other side, his preflop $
30 raise smells fishy for AK.
ATs from UTG is hard to play in this spot, with only $30 invested and flush
flop, i'd let it go.
【在 t********t 的大作中提到】
:
: is
: he's got AK and don't know where he's at, just like hero?
| t********t
发帖数: 5415 | 6
action,
i
preflop $
flush
sure he's not going anywhere, but the problem is that he acts AFTER us.
He could be thinking TPTK is good against the LAG but not hero. To me
it's more like he's scared by the flush flop as well. If we call I don't
see him coming in.
Agree with ATs
comment though. it's live, and ANY club would stay imo. Unless a T hits,
we are never good.
On another thought...what about open to $7~$10 pre? sure you'll get
called
by many ppl, but if someone 3bets it's easy to let go, and cbet this
flop
could take it down right there.
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: if he got AK, he's not going anywhere with his stack and preflop action, i
: expect him to c-bet first most of time. but on the other side, his preflop $
: 30 raise smells fishy for AK.
: ATs from UTG is hard to play in this spot, with only $30 invested and flush
: flop, i'd let it go.
| p*******p
发帖数: 13670 | 7 i will shove loose aggresive's raise， AT除了碰到AA，其他至少也有30%胜率，貌
似其他人都是short stack，let's gamble
【在 s*********f 的大作中提到】
: Live game. A mixture of weak tight and loose aggressive players. $1/$2 no
: limit. I have about $350.
: I have diamond ATs UTG and limp in. UTG+1 (~$130 stack) limps. A loose
: aggressive player (~$140 stack) in
: mid-position raises to $10. Two players call before me. I called. UTG+1
: raises to $30. Two players call the
: reraise before me. I call too.
: Flop: Axx, all clubs.
: I have top pair medium kicker and no idea where I am at. I check. UTG+1
: checks. The loose aggressive player
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 8 Fold to the reraise preflop. If you don't want to fold, shove. Both better than calling. | t********t
发帖数: 5415 | 9 LOL...赞gambooooool
【在 p*******p 的大作中提到】
: i will shove loose aggresive's raise， AT除了碰到AA，其他至少也有30%胜率，貌
: 似其他人都是short stack，let's gamble
| t********t
发帖数: 5415 | 10 I was thinking about folding as well, guess that's what I'll do if I was
hero. (I'm
weak) However, $30 is a fishy size, like Fryking said, also it's 6~7-to-1
odds to call. We are going for TPGK/TP over K or flush here, which is good
for a majority of time in live.
Shove is a bold move as well, but I'm not quite sure about it EV-wise.
maybe it's just me without a big heart...
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: Fold to the reraise preflop. If you don't want to fold, shove. Both better than calling.
| | | W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 11 You don't like folding preflop then you should shove instead. You are ahead of two of the fish that called reraise. with 100$ dead money in the pot you are good even if utg+1 has kk or ak. If he has 99, then you are ahead ev wise. Calling accomplish nothing. You won't like flop unless it is kqj or 10 10 10. You are burning money this way.
Since they are all short stacks I think long term, shove and folding yields similar ev (folding is probably slightly ahead) while shoving will have larger variance, but it does give you a loose image which could yield much more profit later. If either utg+1 or middle position is deep stack (300+) folding is definitely much better option here out of position. | p*******p
发帖数: 13670 | 12 come on, how much can u lose here, only 130 to 140
【在 t********t 的大作中提到】
: LOL...赞gambooooool
| s*********f
发帖数: 155 | 13 I think, UTG+1, who is yet to act, has QQ+, based on his limp-raise. Since
he has big pairs, it is impossible
for him to have two clubs. His check likely indicates KK and QQ without a
club. I would have pushed with
Aces.
The loose aggressive player may have two clubs, or a club with a pair. Less
likely situations are pure bluff
and a set. One club is much more likely than two clubs in his hands,
probably at 3:1 ratio.
I am getting better than 2:1 to call already. I may also get the UTG+1 to
call then I will be getting 3:1.
Since only short stacks are in the hand, there are no worries for later
streets. I pause for a while and say
"what the fuck I call!" UTG+1 says "Now I have to call!" and pushes all-in.
Turn and river are two blanks. UTG+1 shows KK, with a club K! (I would have
pushed with his hand). The
loose aggressive player mucks. I win a ~$450 pot with AT. Another player
comments:"I really don't think AT
could win that hand!"
I am not sure if I played correctly. Maybe my thinking is too aggressive?
Maybe I should work out a
distribution of the hands the loose aggressive player may have?
【在 s*********f 的大作中提到】
: Live game. A mixture of weak tight and loose aggressive players. $1/$2 no
: limit. I have about $350.
: I have diamond ATs UTG and limp in. UTG+1 (~$130 stack) limps. A loose
: aggressive player (~$140 stack) in
: mid-position raises to $10. Two players call before me. I called. UTG+1
: raises to $30. Two players call the
: reraise before me. I call too.
: Flop: Axx, all clubs.
: I have top pair medium kicker and no idea where I am at. I check. UTG+1
: checks. The loose aggressive player
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 14 lol, then like i said, UTG+1 is a very bad player, short stack, limped with
KK (AFTER a limper), raised an awkward size after a bunch of callers...
flop check was also a disaster with Kc, was he committed or not? his words "
Now I have to call!" were joking? or was there a chance he could fold (if
you didn't call)?
what was he expecting? checked down and another club on turn/river (with 4 card
flush board?) to save his ass and "hopefully" win this pot? hehe. or check
called/pushed? with his small stack, he could achieve nothing.
Less
【在 s*********f 的大作中提到】
: I think, UTG+1, who is yet to act, has QQ+, based on his limp-raise. Since
: he has big pairs, it is impossible
: for him to have two clubs. His check likely indicates KK and QQ without a
: club. I would have pushed with
: Aces.
: The loose aggressive player may have two clubs, or a club with a pair. Less
: likely situations are pure bluff
: and a set. One club is much more likely than two clubs in his hands,
: probably at 3:1 ratio.
: I am getting better than 2:1 to call already. I may also get the UTG+1 to
| s*******o
发帖数: 4896 | 15 不用考虑那么多，正常的fish
昨天在NL50还看到QQ min 4bet被JJ call以后, 在KJx rainbow check/call两条街all
in的
鱼。
fish never ever fold QQ+ even JJ+ on any board
with
"
his
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: lol, then like i said, UTG+1 is a very bad player, short stack, limped with
: KK (AFTER a limper), raised an awkward size after a bunch of callers...
: flop check was also a disaster with Kc, was he committed or not? his words "
: Now I have to call!" were joking? or was there a chance he could fold (if
: you didn't call)?
: what was he expecting? checked down and another club on turn/river (with 4 card
: flush board?) to save his ass and "hopefully" win this pot? hehe. or check
: called/pushed? with his small stack, he could achieve nothing.
:
: Less
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 16 to be fair, I like utg+1's play both preflop and post flop. His reasoning on the flop is also fundamentally sound. I think he should call if utg does not call, but utg coming along make it more of a call.
Among all 3 player, lz's play is most arguable pre and post even though he win the hand. the call on the flop is 50 50%. I would not call it a good play either fold or call. | s*******o
发帖数: 4896 | 17 不对吧，如果是3-way pot, KK怎么也没有概率call吧
on the flop is also fundamentally sound. I think he should call if utg does
not call, but utg coming along make it more of a call.
win the hand. the call on the flop is 50 50%. I would not call it a good
play either fold or call.
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: to be fair, I like utg+1's play both preflop and post flop. His reasoning on the flop is also fundamentally sound. I think he should call if utg does not call, but utg coming along make it more of a call.
: Among all 3 player, lz's play is most arguable pre and post even though he win the hand. the call on the flop is 50 50%. I would not call it a good play either fold or call.
| s*******o
发帖数: 4896 | 18 sorry!没看到all club哈哈
does
【在 s*******o 的大作中提到】
: 不对吧，如果是3-way pot, KK怎么也没有概率call吧
:
: on the flop is also fundamentally sound. I think he should call if utg does
: not call, but utg coming along make it more of a call.
: win the hand. the call on the flop is 50 50%. I would not call it a good
: play either fold or call.
| s*******o
发帖数: 4896 | 19 如果这样，我那天也call了这样一把
我当时觉得应该call，不知道对不对
No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed
欢迎使用中华牌道馆http://www.kungfu-poker.com/提供的牌局转化器http://www.
kungfu-poker.com/list.php?catid=65)
BB ($15)
Hero (UTG) ($52.45)
MP ($50)
CO ($53.83)
Button ($65.01)
SB ($89.13)
Preflop: Hero is UTG with As, Kh
Hero bets $1.33, 1 fold, CO calls $1.33, Button calls $1.33, SB calls $1.08,
1 fold
Flop: ($5.82) Js, Qs, 9s (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $3.60, 1 fold, Button calls $3.60, SB raises $87.80 (Al
l-In), Hero calls $47.52 (All-In), 1 fold
Turn: ($111.66) 5h (2 players, 2 all-in)
River: ($111.66) 10d (2 players, 2 all-in)
Total pot: $111.66
【在 s*******o 的大作中提到】
: sorry!没看到all club哈哈
:
: does
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 20 how do you justify a limp (after limper) raise $30 (with only $100 left) into
4 callers (including one raiser) pre-flop with KK? he's giving anyone at least
1:3 (1:4, 1:5...) good odds.
flop is one of the best flops he could expect, even with A. with 20%+ stack
invested and only having less than pot stack, he's way passed his commitment
threshold and with his holding, he has to, no matter what.
his play is problematic because most flops would give him a big trouble. and
his small $30 is inviting this out of position, to the ppl behind him.
on the flop is also fundamentally sound. I think he should call if utg does
not call, but utg coming along make it more of a call.
win the hand. the call on the flop is 50 50%. I would not call it a good
play either fold or call.
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: to be fair, I like utg+1's play both preflop and post flop. His reasoning on the flop is also fundamentally sound. I think he should call if utg does not call, but utg coming along make it more of a call.
: Among all 3 player, lz's play is most arguable pre and post even though he win the hand. the call on the flop is 50 50%. I would not call it a good play either fold or call.
| | | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 21 12 outs to absolute nuts, i'd call for odds.
【在 s*******o 的大作中提到】
: 如果这样，我那天也call了这样一把
: 我当时觉得应该call，不知道对不对
: No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed
: 欢迎使用中华牌道馆http://www.kungfu-poker.com/提供的牌局转化器http://www.
: kungfu-poker.com/list.php?catid=65)
: BB ($15)
: Hero (UTG) ($52.45)
: MP ($50)
: CO ($53.83)
: Button ($65.01)
| s*******o
发帖数: 4896 | 22 12outs????
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: 12 outs to absolute nuts, i'd call for odds.
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 23 T too, unless he flopped a trash flush. with all high spades there, i
discount this.
【在 s*******o 的大作中提到】
: 12outs????
| s*******o
发帖数: 4896 | 24 直接推得那个fish是一个44/25的fish，Merge上这种aggro fish太多太多了
其实当时我也是和你这样想的，我当时想，如果call了，后面那个fish也跟过来就好了
从preflop的角度上来讲他拿着KTs,T8s,87s,76s,甚至65s都有可能，但是他直接推flop
的话KTs,T8s的可能性就是0,所以他只有可能87s,76s,65s这几种组合
结果是我输掉了这个pot，the fish shoved on flop got 62s
我的odds比我想象的要差很多
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: T too, unless he flopped a trash flush. with all high spades there, i
: discount this.
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 25 44/25, then natural, lol.
still quite a few live outs.
flop
【在 s*******o 的大作中提到】
: 直接推得那个fish是一个44/25的fish，Merge上这种aggro fish太多太多了
: 其实当时我也是和你这样想的，我当时想，如果call了，后面那个fish也跟过来就好了
: 从preflop的角度上来讲他拿着KTs,T8s,87s,76s,甚至65s都有可能，但是他直接推flop
: 的话KTs,T8s的可能性就是0,所以他只有可能87s,76s,65s这几种组合
: 结果是我输掉了这个pot，the fish shoved on flop got 62s
: 我的odds比我想象的要差很多
| s*******o
发帖数: 4896 | 26 恩，我没打过live，但是我怀疑live应该也不少这种风格的吧
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: 44/25, then natural, lol.
: still quite a few live outs.
:
: flop
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 27 yes, like the guy who raised me pre and re-shoved $1K with 48s, lol.
【在 s*******o 的大作中提到】
: 恩，我没打过live，但是我怀疑live应该也不少这种风格的吧
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 28 Let me break it down to you why i like his play.
preflop: i think limp behind and reraise with premium pair is a very good weapon when someone behind is aggressive. He can reraise to get a good spr preflop. I do this all the time on-line vs agro fish. Now the reraise size, if his stack is deeper, i would not like the 30$ raise, not because it does not THIN the field but because it does not give a good spr to put all the stack in post flop. Now that he has 130$ stack, 30$ is a great size (bigger is fine if they all come along.). Even if only one person come along, he has enough chip in the pot preflop to put everything in postflop. You have KK, you have 100$ stack with 120$ in the pot preflop already with 3 other players in the pot as played. What better situation do you want before the card was dealt? Size is not an issue here.
post flop: you don't think he should check, do you recommend to lead shove? What does this accomplish? is there any better hand that will fold? he has the nut draw and he has less than pot size left. Even if he is never folding, check call is still better than shoving especially when 2 others and the aggressive guy still yet react. Because your lead shove only make worse hand fold, and can't let better hand fold. If you make any worse hands fold and you lose money. If you keep any of their bluff in, you make money. shoving flop is not very good. 20$/call is fine. check/call is fine.
into
least
stack
commitment
and
does
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: how do you justify a limp (after limper) raise $30 (with only $100 left) into
: 4 callers (including one raiser) pre-flop with KK? he's giving anyone at least
: 1:3 (1:4, 1:5...) good odds.
: flop is one of the best flops he could expect, even with A. with 20%+ stack
: invested and only having less than pot stack, he's way passed his commitment
: threshold and with his holding, he has to, no matter what.
: his play is problematic because most flops would give him a big trouble. and
: his small $30 is inviting this out of position, to the ppl behind him.
:
: on the flop is also fundamentally sound. I think he should call if utg does
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 29 I think it is a fold unless you have some crazy read about this guy who could shove here with a 10s alone. But I don't blame you to call this vs a 44/22 guy
couple reasons to fold for you to consider if this happens to you again.
1) 3 way pot, people don't bluff as much in a 3 way pot.
2) your stack is too deep to call this shove with a draw where 10 might not even be your outs.
3) You have the A of spade, that means he does not have a nut flush draw which most of his semibluff shove should consist of with a monotone board. This means he has a lot of made hand in his range. among them, 2 pair, flopped straight, sets, baby flush. There are a lof of these hand in his range with the board. with 46$ still left, your odds of calling is not very good. Also even fish don't go crazy with that monotone board without a very good hand. fish loves flush card therefore they are more scared of them than anyone.
【在 s*******o 的大作中提到】
: 如果这样，我那天也call了这样一把
: 我当时觉得应该call，不知道对不对
: No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed
: 欢迎使用中华牌道馆http://www.kungfu-poker.com/提供的牌局转化器http://www.
: kungfu-poker.com/list.php?catid=65)
: BB ($15)
: Hero (UTG) ($52.45)
: MP ($50)
: CO ($53.83)
: Button ($65.01)
| f*****r
发帖数: 754 | 30 fold
【在 s*********f 的大作中提到】
: Live game. A mixture of weak tight and loose aggressive players. $1/$2 no
: limit. I have about $350.
: I have diamond ATs UTG and limp in. UTG+1 (~$130 stack) limps. A loose
: aggressive player (~$140 stack) in
: mid-position raises to $10. Two players call before me. I called. UTG+1
: raises to $30. Two players call the
: reraise before me. I call too.
: Flop: Axx, all clubs.
: I have top pair medium kicker and no idea where I am at. I check. UTG+1
: checks. The loose aggressive player
| | | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 31 you think $30 into a $45 raised 4-way pot is good? nobody (all 4 behind him)
would lay down a small $20 here after $10 already in.
original raiser gets almost 1:4 ($20 more for $75), next guy gets 1:5, next
guy gets 1:6, OP gets 1:7... this makes ANY 2 cards playable or right to
play now, let alone they already call a $10 raise (better than any 2 cards).
.. with only $100 left and 5-way to the flop, this is next to suicide with
KK.
flop Axx, he's dead meat, bet? call? check shove?
flop low trash, he could still be dead meat with only an over pair.
and most impoortant, he's out of position.
again, this is one of the best flops for him with a good re-draw, but how
many flops are like this one?
if he knows he's committed, and checks to get more ppl in, then it's not
that bad. but from his words, "now i have to call", after OP is in too and
he's last to act, this doesn't sound like the case.
spr
,
does
bigger
has
have
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: Let me break it down to you why i like his play.
: preflop: i think limp behind and reraise with premium pair is a very good weapon when someone behind is aggressive. He can reraise to get a good spr preflop. I do this all the time on-line vs agro fish. Now the reraise size, if his stack is deeper, i would not like the 30$ raise, not because it does not THIN the field but because it does not give a good spr to put all the stack in post flop. Now that he has 130$ stack, 30$ is a great size (bigger is fine if they all come along.). Even if only one person come along, he has enough chip in the pot preflop to put everything in postflop. You have KK, you have 100$ stack with 120$ in the pot preflop already with 3 other players in the pot as played. What better situation do you want before the card was dealt? Size is not an issue here.
: post flop: you don't think he should check, do you recommend to lead shove? What does this accomplish? is there any better hand that will fold? he has the nut draw and he has less than pot size left. Even if he is never folding, check call is still better than shoving especially when 2 others and the aggressive guy still yet react. Because your lead shove only make worse hand fold, and can't let better hand fold. If you make any worse hands fold and you lose money. If you keep any of their bluff in, you make money. shoving flop is not very good. 20$/call is fine. check/call is fine.
:
: into
: least
: stack
: commitment
: and
: does
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 32 size is not a problem. 30$ is good enough with his STACK SIZE. raising
bigger is fine if other players will call. if you raise big enough and
everyone fold, then you just help others avoid making a mistake. When others
don't make mistake, you lose money. | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 33 yes, we want others to make a mistake, but before that, we need to make sure
we're not making a mistake by simply giving others great odds either.
anything better than 1:4 is great odds in this case since we're at best
only a 4:1 favorite even in HU situation, let alone 5-way.
others
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: size is not a problem. 30$ is good enough with his STACK SIZE. raising
: bigger is fine if other players will call. if you raise big enough and
: everyone fold, then you just help others avoid making a mistake. When others
: don't make mistake, you lose money.
| s*********k
发帖数: 1989 | 34 If you feel you are ahead of the loose-aggser, call. OW. fold.
If you think much and you must fold. But sometime you will find much diff.
story.
Once I was in 50+5 buy-in for 200+16 trubo sattellite. First 150 get seat.
200 players left. I have a little bit above half of the average.
UTG(little above avg) raise to 2BB, which shows huge strength at that stage.
All fold to me at SB w/ KcQc and I call. So did BB(little more than my chips
).
Folp, KsTsXs. I check. BB allin, UTG call. I debated and fold. If you take
a second thought, there is no way my KQ at a good place.
It turned out: SB had K8o and UTG had AsX (NFD + one over). Turn and river,
all blank. If I call, I would triple up and at very comfortable place to
get the 200+16 seat.
Lesson: if you are ahead of the player allin, most places, you can call at
turbo game.
Non-turbo game will be different. Or the one flat call allin w/ huge left behind.
【在 s*********f 的大作中提到】
: Live game. A mixture of weak tight and loose aggressive players. $1/$2 no
: limit. I have about $350.
: I have diamond ATs UTG and limp in. UTG+1 (~$130 stack) limps. A loose
: aggressive player (~$140 stack) in
: mid-position raises to $10. Two players call before me. I called. UTG+1
: raises to $30. Two players call the
: reraise before me. I call too.
: Flop: Axx, all clubs.
: I have top pair medium kicker and no idea where I am at. I check. UTG+1
: checks. The loose aggressive player
|
|
