n********r
发帖数: 2228 | 1 为了准备Chicago Marathon，一直在与另外一个俱乐部训练。跟新教练学了一个新概念
，没见版上的弟兄们提起过，个人觉得有点道理，拿出来跟大家分享。
Marathon Peak Pace (MPP)
教练给的定义：8-10 Second Faster than your Marathon Pace
对我来说，Marathon目标3：20, Marathon Pace: 7'38"，教练给我定的MPP是7’29”
指导思想：Marathon训练应该围绕着Marathon Peak Pace，而不是Marathon Pace
原因：在正式比赛过程中，需要WARM UP，WATER BREAK等，另外大多人比赛的最后阶段
都会或多或少的出现一些问题，前面跑快一点建立起的BUFFER允许你进行必要的调整。
因此，大多数的时间你需要跑的比你的MARATHON PACE快。所以，训练也要比Marathon
Pace快点。
MPP在训练中的应该主要有两个方面：
TEMPO RUN：FIRST MILE MPP，SECOND MILE 1/2 MARATHON PACE, 2 MILE 10K |
w****1
发帖数: 4931 | 2 That'd be a ridiculously hard tempo. That's not tempo, man, that's racing.
You think Haile Gebrselassie ever
finishes his tempo run at 4:05 pace? I don't think so. Ryan Hall does his 10
mile "tempo run" at 4:45, slower
than his HM pace, and not too much faster than his marathon pace.
On the other hand, I recall that your training style is to run a few quality runs each week and rest on the
other days. If that is the case, then it makes sense to do long runs harder. If you follow the AM plan and
【在 n********r 的大作中提到】
: 为了准备Chicago Marathon，一直在与另外一个俱乐部训练。跟新教练学了一个新概念
: ，没见版上的弟兄们提起过，个人觉得有点道理，拿出来跟大家分享。
: Marathon Peak Pace (MPP)
: 教练给的定义：8-10 Second Faster than your Marathon Pace
: 对我来说，Marathon目标3：20, Marathon Pace: 7'38"，教练给我定的MPP是7’29”
: 指导思想：Marathon训练应该围绕着Marathon Peak Pace，而不是Marathon Pace
: 原因：在正式比赛过程中，需要WARM UP，WATER BREAK等，另外大多人比赛的最后阶段
: 都会或多或少的出现一些问题，前面跑快一点建立起的BUFFER允许你进行必要的调整。
: 因此，大多数的时间你需要跑的比你的MARATHON PACE快。所以，训练也要比Marathon
: Pace快点。
|
b***i
发帖数: 10018 | 3 对我们来说是不是如果要BQ 3:10:59，起码需要有维持7:07的能力，而不是7:17?
10
【在 w****1 的大作中提到】
: That'd be a ridiculously hard tempo. That's not tempo, man, that's racing.
: You think Haile Gebrselassie ever
: finishes his tempo run at 4:05 pace? I don't think so. Ryan Hall does his 10
: mile "tempo run" at 4:45, slower
: than his HM pace, and not too much faster than his marathon pace.
: On the other hand, I recall that your training style is to run a few quality runs each week and rest on the
: other days. If that is the case, then it makes sense to do long runs harder. If you follow the AM plan and
|
w****1
发帖数: 4931 | 4 That is true, because your pace will fluctuate during the course of the
marathon. But just because you run 10
seconds per mile faster in the long run doesn't mean that you will race 10
seconds per mile faster in the
marathon. Most of us want to train as hard as we could, but there is the question of whether the body can
absorb rather than be damaged by the workout.
【在 b***i 的大作中提到】
: 对我们来说是不是如果要BQ 3:10:59，起码需要有维持7:07的能力，而不是7:17?
:
: 10
|
n********r
发帖数: 2228 | 5 I am still doing the same thing. Only three days training per week, Monday
Hill/Tempo, Wednesday Speed work, Saturday Long Run.
The group I am training with is pretty strong and works really hard. Most of
runners are shooting for sub 3. Only a few are in 3：15 - 3：20 range. They
make me feel very guilty that I am not training hard enough.:(
10
quality runs each week and rest on the
harder. If you follow the AM plan and do
a long run, you gotta take it
【在 w****1 的大作中提到】
: That'd be a ridiculously hard tempo. That's not tempo, man, that's racing.
: You think Haile Gebrselassie ever
: finishes his tempo run at 4:05 pace? I don't think so. Ryan Hall does his 10
: mile "tempo run" at 4:45, slower
: than his HM pace, and not too much faster than his marathon pace.
: On the other hand, I recall that your training style is to run a few quality runs each week and rest on the
: other days. If that is the case, then it makes sense to do long runs harder. If you follow the AM plan and
|
w********6
发帖数: 12977 | 6 long run with last few mile at MPP is reasonable, but not for every long run
, in AM there is such long run with large percentage in MP
However, tempo run with last two miles at 5k race pace is too hard |
n********r
发帖数: 2228 | 7 Yes. At least you get be able to sustain this pace in the middle of race for
several miles.
【在 b***i 的大作中提到】
: 对我们来说是不是如果要BQ 3:10:59，起码需要有维持7:07的能力，而不是7:17?
:
: 10
|
b***i
发帖数: 10018 | 8 it's hard indeed, sounds like more than race effort... a 5k race is 3.1mi
long
run
【在 w********6 的大作中提到】
: long run with last few mile at MPP is reasonable, but not for every long run
: , in AM there is such long run with large percentage in MP
: However, tempo run with last two miles at 5k race pace is too hard
|
w****1
发帖数: 4931 | 9 If you only train three days per week, then it makes sense to do this.
Essentially your tempo runs are tune up
races, not what most would call tempo run. This kind of training method is
exactly the opposite of, say,
Japanese marathoners. Japanese marathoners do super high volume and long
tempo runs but almost never as
fast as 5K race. And they are well known to perform well in the marathon (
significantly better than their
performances in 5K and 10K).
of
They
【在 n********r 的大作中提到】
: I am still doing the same thing. Only three days training per week, Monday
: Hill/Tempo, Wednesday Speed work, Saturday Long Run.
: The group I am training with is pretty strong and works really hard. Most of
: runners are shooting for sub 3. Only a few are in 3：15 - 3：20 range. They
: make me feel very guilty that I am not training hard enough.:(
:
: 10
: quality runs each week and rest on the
: harder. If you follow the AM plan and do
: a long run, you gotta take it
|
b***i
发帖数: 10018 | 10 only several miles? or the whole 26 miles when the condition is ideal?
for
【在 n********r 的大作中提到】
: Yes. At least you get be able to sustain this pace in the middle of race for
: several miles.
|
|
|
f*******d
发帖数: 12693 | 11 一周跑三次能发挥自己潜能的可能性非常小了。
of
They
【在 n********r 的大作中提到】
: I am still doing the same thing. Only three days training per week, Monday
: Hill/Tempo, Wednesday Speed work, Saturday Long Run.
: The group I am training with is pretty strong and works really hard. Most of
: runners are shooting for sub 3. Only a few are in 3：15 - 3：20 range. They
: make me feel very guilty that I am not training hard enough.:(
:
: 10
: quality runs each week and rest on the
: harder. If you follow the AM plan and do
: a long run, you gotta take it
|
w****1
发帖数: 4931 | 12 It sounds like that's how marathoners trained a hundred years ago. Maybe
coach Staley can tell us more
details.
【在 f*******d 的大作中提到】
: 一周跑三次能发挥自己潜能的可能性非常小了。
:
: of
: They
|
n********r
发帖数: 2228 | 13 Not the entire race. Only in the middle after you warmed up and you are not
too tired. The idea is build the buffer which allow you slow down when are
you tired later in the race.
【在 b***i 的大作中提到】
: only several miles? or the whole 26 miles when the condition is ideal?
:
: for
|
n********r
发帖数: 2228 | 14 No time now. I will increase the mileage during the peak weeks if I can find
the time.
【在 f*******d 的大作中提到】
: 一周跑三次能发挥自己潜能的可能性非常小了。
:
: of
: They
|
f*******d
发帖数: 12693 | 15 关键在于尽量每天都跑一些，让腿一直保持状态，两天不跑就会觉得发硬。
find
【在 n********r 的大作中提到】
: No time now. I will increase the mileage during the peak weeks if I can find
: the time.
|
R*****s
发帖数: 41236 | 16 其实俺的tempo差不多就这么跑的， 只不过最后上不到5K那么快，
当然， 俺也不知道俺5K应该多快 :D
Marathon
【在 n********r 的大作中提到】
: 为了准备Chicago Marathon，一直在与另外一个俱乐部训练。跟新教练学了一个新概念
: ，没见版上的弟兄们提起过，个人觉得有点道理，拿出来跟大家分享。
: Marathon Peak Pace (MPP)
: 教练给的定义：8-10 Second Faster than your Marathon Pace
: 对我来说，Marathon目标3：20, Marathon Pace: 7'38"，教练给我定的MPP是7’29”
: 指导思想：Marathon训练应该围绕着Marathon Peak Pace，而不是Marathon Pace
: 原因：在正式比赛过程中，需要WARM UP，WATER BREAK等，另外大多人比赛的最后阶段
: 都会或多或少的出现一些问题，前面跑快一点建立起的BUFFER允许你进行必要的调整。
: 因此，大多数的时间你需要跑的比你的MARATHON PACE快。所以，训练也要比Marathon
: Pace快点。
|
e*e
发帖数: 6808 | 17 你们local的running club真红火啊！ |
m*****d
发帖数: 1613 | 18 这个说法没有考虑比赛时兴奋水平和carb loading之类的效果。比赛pace自然比平时练
要快一点，这个应该可以抵消喝水和其他因素的影响。 |
y******n
发帖数: 4527 | 19 5K is just 3.1 miles. With 2 m @ 5K race pace, that is about taking the race
especially after hard workouts.
run
【在 w********6 的大作中提到】
: long run with last few mile at MPP is reasonable, but not for every long run
: , in AM there is such long run with large percentage in MP
: However, tempo run with last two miles at 5k race pace is too hard
|
w****1
发帖数: 4931 | 20 On a regular training day even 1 mile at my 5K race pace would feel very
hard to me. 2 miles at 5K pace, I have never done it in training. To do 2
miles at 5K race pace at the end of a tempo run is physically impossible, in
the midst of a training week, when you are not peaking for a 5K race.
race
【在 y******n 的大作中提到】
: 5K is just 3.1 miles. With 2 m @ 5K race pace, that is about taking the race
: especially after hard workouts.
:
: run
|
|
|
y******n
发帖数: 4527 | 21 btw: I am going take a 5K race this Sunday. According to the AM plan,
however, there is a mid-long 12 mile tomorrow and 9 mile Tempo on Friday.
Should I completely follow the plan or move the tempo to Thursday?
I am not trying to run a best 5K ever. Just try to do my best in the race at
current circumstance.
in
【在 w****1 的大作中提到】
: On a regular training day even 1 mile at my 5K race pace would feel very
: hard to me. 2 miles at 5K pace, I have never done it in training. To do 2
: miles at 5K race pace at the end of a tempo run is physically impossible, in
: the midst of a training week, when you are not peaking for a 5K race.
:
: race
|
w****1
发帖数: 4931 | 22 I'd say do the tempo run easy, maybe at your HM pace, run the 5K race, and
follow up with a long run or mid-long the day after the race.
at
【在 y******n 的大作中提到】
: btw: I am going take a 5K race this Sunday. According to the AM plan,
: however, there is a mid-long 12 mile tomorrow and 9 mile Tempo on Friday.
: Should I completely follow the plan or move the tempo to Thursday?
: I am not trying to run a best 5K ever. Just try to do my best in the race at
: current circumstance.
:
: in
|
b***i
发帖数: 10018 | 23 i wouldn't race the 5k unless it's a scheduled tune-up race.
if i have to be there, i would do it as tempo run,
or what lydiard said 3/4 effort time trial.
at
【在 y******n 的大作中提到】
: btw: I am going take a 5K race this Sunday. According to the AM plan,
: however, there is a mid-long 12 mile tomorrow and 9 mile Tempo on Friday.
: Should I completely follow the plan or move the tempo to Thursday?
: I am not trying to run a best 5K ever. Just try to do my best in the race at
: current circumstance.
:
: in
|
y******n
发帖数: 4527 | 24 Just came back from a short recovery run. That is actually what I am
thinking about during my run. Take an easy tempo instead of a hard workout
to keep the mileage and to reduce the intensity. Save energy for the Sunday
race.
【在 w****1 的大作中提到】
: I'd say do the tempo run easy, maybe at your HM pace, run the 5K race, and
: follow up with a long run or mid-long the day after the race.
:
: at
|
y******n
发帖数: 4527 | 25 It is a little complicated than simply inserting a race into schedule.
Because I will relocate next week, I will have to miss two runs on next
Tuesday and Wednesday. Need to take some easy runs anyway in order to
compensate for those two days. Therefore, a 5K race will not take much more
energy from my body than the scheduled 16 miler.
【在 b***i 的大作中提到】
: i wouldn't race the 5k unless it's a scheduled tune-up race.
: if i have to be there, i would do it as tempo run,
: or what lydiard said 3/4 effort time trial.
:
: at
|
b***i
发帖数: 10018 | 26 if no long run, and there are two easy days after, then by all means, race
it!
more
【在 y******n 的大作中提到】
: It is a little complicated than simply inserting a race into schedule.
: Because I will relocate next week, I will have to miss two runs on next
: Tuesday and Wednesday. Need to take some easy runs anyway in order to
: compensate for those two days. Therefore, a 5K race will not take much more
: energy from my body than the scheduled 16 miler.
|
d****i
发帖数: 4354 | 27 Racing is a significant fun part of running, go for it.
more
【在 y******n 的大作中提到】
: It is a little complicated than simply inserting a race into schedule.
: Because I will relocate next week, I will have to miss two runs on next
: Tuesday and Wednesday. Need to take some easy runs anyway in order to
: compensate for those two days. Therefore, a 5K race will not take much more
: energy from my body than the scheduled 16 miler.
|
j**h
发帖数: 1230 | 28 TEMPO RUN：FIRST MILE MPP，SECOND MILE 1/2 MARATHON PACE, 2 MILE 10K PACE, 2
MILE 5K PACE (真TMD的难啊，我从来没按要求完成过） |
n********r
发帖数: 2228 | 29 这个教练的理念就是训练中要Push到极限。我们有个专门用来Hill Repeat的loop，一
圈1.6Mile，每次4圈，同样的PACE要求，ＭＰＰ，1/2 Marathon, 10K, 5k。更可气的
是，这家伙跟你屁股后面，不停的喊，You got to push it, you got to push it。每
次跑完这个Hill Repeat都生不如死啊。
这周的Long Run更变态，共18Mile，其中2 X 6 mile at MPP。估计我又得Take Easy了
2
【在 j**h 的大作中提到】
: TEMPO RUN：FIRST MILE MPP，SECOND MILE 1/2 MARATHON PACE, 2 MILE 10K PACE, 2
: MILE 5K PACE (真TMD的难啊，我从来没按要求完成过）
|
w****1
发帖数: 4931 | 30 I believe what he meant by 5K pace is more like 5K racing effort, not that
you can necessarily hit your 5K race pace. I wish I had such a pushy coach
though. When I was with a running club in 2008 the coach just came over to
tell us what workouts to do, and then stood quietly on the side of the track
, only making a few comments occasionally.
【在 n********r 的大作中提到】
: 这个教练的理念就是训练中要Push到极限。我们有个专门用来Hill Repeat的loop，一
: 圈1.6Mile，每次4圈，同样的PACE要求，ＭＰＰ，1/2 Marathon, 10K, 5k。更可气的
: 是，这家伙跟你屁股后面，不停的喊，You got to push it, you got to push it。每
: 次跑完这个Hill Repeat都生不如死啊。
: 这周的Long Run更变态，共18Mile，其中2 X 6 mile at MPP。估计我又得Take Easy了
:
: 2
|
|
|
n********r
发帖数: 2228 | 31 他的Guideline is
MPP = Marathon Pace - 8-10 Seconds
1/2 Marathon Pace = MPP - 15-20 Seconds
10K Pace = 1/2 Marathon Pace - 15-20 Seconds
5K Pace = 10K Pace - 15-20 Seconds
他也知道他的计划不是所有的人都能完成，每次布置完计划后，都跟一句，"If you
feel you are not in a good mode you can't do it, at least your last part
should be your fastest one."
track
【在 w****1 的大作中提到】
: I believe what he meant by 5K pace is more like 5K racing effort, not that
: you can necessarily hit your 5K race pace. I wish I had such a pushy coach
: though. When I was with a running club in 2008 the coach just came over to
: tell us what workouts to do, and then stood quietly on the side of the track
: , only making a few comments occasionally.
|
b***i
发帖数: 10018 | 32 这样MP跟HMP之间岂不是有25-30秒的差别？
事实上对高手来说只有15-20秒的差别
【在 n********r 的大作中提到】
: 他的Guideline is
: MPP = Marathon Pace - 8-10 Seconds
: 1/2 Marathon Pace = MPP - 15-20 Seconds
: 10K Pace = 1/2 Marathon Pace - 15-20 Seconds
: 5K Pace = 10K Pace - 15-20 Seconds
: 他也知道他的计划不是所有的人都能完成，每次布置完计划后，都跟一句，"If you
: feel you are not in a good mode you can't do it, at least your last part
: should be your fastest one."
:
: track
|
