H******C
发帖数: 700 | 1 马上就六个月了,最近保险下来了去约了个OB 用 Doppler 听了听胎儿心跳,正常.约好
下周抽血,再做一个 regular ultrasound. OB 说下面还要再到 high-risk specialist
那儿再去做一个 ultrasound.
回来想了想,越来越不想去 high-risk specialist 那儿去了.据说 ultrasound 对胎儿
有潜在的危险. 一个 regular ultrasound, 看看宫颈, fluid, anatomy 之类的不久可
以了吗? 我有个大宝,孕期一切顺利,生产顺利. 难道就因为我现在高龄, 就要去看
high-risk specialist?
可以跟 OB 谈不去 high-risk specialist 那儿去吗? 实在要去抽血可以,但不原意再
做 ultrasound. | y***n
发帖数: 11261 | 2 怀老大时候一共ultrasound了10次的飘过
specialist
【在 H******C 的大作中提到】
: 马上就六个月了,最近保险下来了去约了个OB 用 Doppler 听了听胎儿心跳,正常.约好
: 下周抽血,再做一个 regular ultrasound. OB 说下面还要再到 high-risk specialist
: 那儿再去做一个 ultrasound.
: 回来想了想,越来越不想去 high-risk specialist 那儿去了.据说 ultrasound 对胎儿
: 有潜在的危险. 一个 regular ultrasound, 看看宫颈, fluid, anatomy 之类的不久可
: 以了吗? 我有个大宝,孕期一切顺利,生产顺利. 难道就因为我现在高龄, 就要去看
: high-risk specialist?
: 可以跟 OB 谈不去 high-risk specialist 那儿去吗? 实在要去抽血可以,但不原意再
: 做 ultrasound.
| H******C
发帖数: 700 | 3 ultrasound 在动物上做试验会造成细胞损伤.据说 ultrasound 多了可能左撇子比较多.
可能是我比较 sensitive, 现在就是越想越不原意去做两次 ultrasound,
【在 y***n 的大作中提到】
: 怀老大时候一共ultrasound了10次的飘过
:
: specialist
| y***n
发帖数: 11261 | 4 那你就跟OB说不想去嘛，一般都会满足孕妇要求的吧。
多.
【在 H******C 的大作中提到】
: ultrasound 在动物上做试验会造成细胞损伤.据说 ultrasound 多了可能左撇子比较多.
: 可能是我比较 sensitive, 现在就是越想越不原意去做两次 ultrasound,
| H******C
发帖数: 700 | 5 好,下周就说.
【在 y***n 的大作中提到】
: 那你就跟OB说不想去嘛，一般都会满足孕妇要求的吧。
:
: 多.
| a**********s
发帖数: 588 | 6 不懂问一句：high risk specialist那里做的ultrasound就是high risk ultrasound吗
？ | H****g
发帖数: 2273 | 7 可以把regular的ultrasound去掉不？
specialist
【在 H******C 的大作中提到】
: 马上就六个月了,最近保险下来了去约了个OB 用 Doppler 听了听胎儿心跳,正常.约好
: 下周抽血,再做一个 regular ultrasound. OB 说下面还要再到 high-risk specialist
: 那儿再去做一个 ultrasound.
: 回来想了想,越来越不想去 high-risk specialist 那儿去了.据说 ultrasound 对胎儿
: 有潜在的危险. 一个 regular ultrasound, 看看宫颈, fluid, anatomy 之类的不久可
: 以了吗? 我有个大宝,孕期一切顺利,生产顺利. 难道就因为我现在高龄, 就要去看
: high-risk specialist?
: 可以跟 OB 谈不去 high-risk specialist 那儿去吗? 实在要去抽血可以,但不原意再
: 做 ultrasound.
| j*******a
发帖数: 5283 | 8 这个据说。。。
多.
【在 H******C 的大作中提到】
: ultrasound 在动物上做试验会造成细胞损伤.据说 ultrasound 多了可能左撇子比较多.
: 可能是我比较 sensitive, 现在就是越想越不原意去做两次 ultrasound,
| h*******e
发帖数: 3857 | 9 why???
想不通。。。skipping high risk ultrasound的risk比“据说。。。”来得小吗？
我也是high risk，为了保证宝宝得到最好的care，每周都做一次ultra sound，前26周
还不是肚皮上的
我觉得如果那个时候叫我skip，我担心到心脏病
而且医生都说了没有risk。。。。哪里来的那个据说 | l*****n
发帖数: 5200 | 10 做ultrasound会有伤害的话，那我们岂不是产检都不要去了？太夸张了
如果有，估计跟空气污染差不多，以后岂不是要带防毒面具？ | | | i*******t
发帖数: 145 | 11 不明白呀，在我看来少做或不做b超，其中的risk比做多了要大很多。再说上一个健康
顺利又不能保证这次也一定健康顺利
★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.8 | H******C
发帖数: 700 | 12 我对医疗检查等总是天生的害怕.尤其是 invasive procedure.
不知道 high-risk ultrasound 和 anatomy ultrasound 是不是一回事？
其他各种检查都没做的情况下, OB 一开始就认定我要去见 high-risk specialist。
可能就是因为高龄问题。或者再阴暗的猜测一下，或者是给 high-risk specialist 关
系户拉生意？ 医疗行业让病人做不必要的检查手术的情况实在是太多了。
希望能象楼上各位妈妈一样，孕期顺顺利利。 | H******C
发帖数: 700 | 13 这个我现在也不知道。到时候去见 high-risk specialist 就知道了，反正那时候可以
拒绝 ultrasound 和其他 invasive procedure, 抽血就可以。到时再上来汇报。
【在 a**********s 的大作中提到】
: 不懂问一句：high risk specialist那里做的ultrasound就是high risk ultrasound吗
: ？
| r**3
发帖数: 1779 | 14 什么样的细胞损伤?用什么动物?
我第一胎做了近20个B超.OB说她诊所有些孕妇还每周做,历史上没有出现问题.
你是高龄,听OB,不要因小失大.何况B超的损害可以忽略.
多.
【在 H******C 的大作中提到】
: ultrasound 在动物上做试验会造成细胞损伤.据说 ultrasound 多了可能左撇子比较多.
: 可能是我比较 sensitive, 现在就是越想越不原意去做两次 ultrasound,
| m****i
发帖数: 1401 | 15 我见的high risk specialist 没有referral都不给看的，我上午打电话去约见，但是
他们没收到我的ob传真，死活不给我约。
我对医疗检查等总是天生的害怕.尤其是 invasive procedure.不知道 high-risk
ultrasound 和 anatomy ultrasound 是不是一........
【在 H******C 的大作中提到】
: 我对医疗检查等总是天生的害怕.尤其是 invasive procedure.
: 不知道 high-risk ultrasound 和 anatomy ultrasound 是不是一回事？
: 其他各种检查都没做的情况下, OB 一开始就认定我要去见 high-risk specialist。
: 可能就是因为高龄问题。或者再阴暗的猜测一下，或者是给 high-risk specialist 关
: 系户拉生意？ 医疗行业让病人做不必要的检查手术的情况实在是太多了。
: 希望能象楼上各位妈妈一样，孕期顺顺利利。
| H******C
发帖数: 700 | 16 是细胞烧伤，用的是老鼠。
谢谢建议。下周见 OB 再谈谈看。听他的意思是说没有意外的话，总共需要做两个
ultrasound, 一个 regular, 一个 high-risk ultrasound. 看来和这儿的很多妈妈比
都不算什么的。不过国内的妈妈们基本都不做的。
【在 r**3 的大作中提到】
: 什么样的细胞损伤?用什么动物?
: 我第一胎做了近20个B超.OB说她诊所有些孕妇还每周做,历史上没有出现问题.
: 你是高龄,听OB,不要因小失大.何况B超的损害可以忽略.
:
: 多.
| m****i
发帖数: 1401 | 17 我两次怀孕都做了近20个ultrasound。
什么样的细胞损伤?用什么动物?我第一胎做了近20个B超.OB说她诊所有些孕妇还每周做
,历史上没有出现问题.你是高龄,听OB,不要因小失大.何况B超的损害可以忽略.
【在 r**3 的大作中提到】
: 什么样的细胞损伤?用什么动物?
: 我第一胎做了近20个B超.OB说她诊所有些孕妇还每周做,历史上没有出现问题.
: 你是高龄,听OB,不要因小失大.何况B超的损害可以忽略.
:
: 多.
| l*****o
发帖数: 26631 | 18 ultrasound难道不是隔着肚皮测的吗？ 为啥是invasive的呢？
。
【在 H******C 的大作中提到】
: 我对医疗检查等总是天生的害怕.尤其是 invasive procedure.
: 不知道 high-risk ultrasound 和 anatomy ultrasound 是不是一回事？
: 其他各种检查都没做的情况下, OB 一开始就认定我要去见 high-risk specialist。
: 可能就是因为高龄问题。或者再阴暗的猜测一下，或者是给 high-risk specialist 关
: 系户拉生意？ 医疗行业让病人做不必要的检查手术的情况实在是太多了。
: 希望能象楼上各位妈妈一样，孕期顺顺利利。
| H***a
发帖数: 506 | 19 别瞎想了，high risk ob不是谁想看就看的，得符合一定条件，high risk ob group
很忙的，根本用不要给介绍生意。你是高龄，按惯例你的ob为了对你负责才让你去hugh
risk ob那边，因为他们的b超设备要好一些，b超师和ob对解读b超结果的水平要高一
些，对胎儿遗传病的某些特点见的多一些。高龄妈妈怀的宝宝会出现’genetic
abnormal 的机率要高，你ob是对你负责。我怀老大，老二都是高龄，每次都得见high
risk ob，做b超超过20次，啥事都没有。他要是不让我在high risk ob那儿做level 2
的b超，我才要担心呢。 | f***r
发帖数: 851 | 20 麻烦给个链接呗？想看看相关的文献，谢谢
【在 H******C 的大作中提到】
: 是细胞烧伤，用的是老鼠。
: 谢谢建议。下周见 OB 再谈谈看。听他的意思是说没有意外的话，总共需要做两个
: ultrasound, 一个 regular, 一个 high-risk ultrasound. 看来和这儿的很多妈妈比
: 都不算什么的。不过国内的妈妈们基本都不做的。
| | | R*********i
发帖数: 7643 | 21 难道high-risk ultrasound不是指的给的high-risk孕妇做的ultrasound？ 这个
ultrasound本身的risk并不比其他高啊。ultrasound | w****a
发帖数: 2049 | 22 high risk ultrasound is just ultrasound for high risk mom. ultrasound is
quite safe.
Ultraschall Med. 2012 Jun;33(3):215-7. doi: 10.1055/s-0032-1312759. Epub
2012 Jun 14.
[Obstetrical ultrasound: can the fetus hear the wave and feel the heat?].
[Article in German]
Abramowicz JS, Kremkau FW, Merz E.
Abstract
"Fetuses can hear ultrasound and the sound is as loud as a subway train
entering a station." This statement originates in a single report in a non-
peer reviewed journal, despite its name 1, of a presentation at a scientific
meeting by researchers who reported measuring the sound intensity in the
uterus of pregnant women and being able to demonstrate the above. This was
later published in a peer-review journal 2 probably not very widely read by
clinicians or the general public. From time to time, the popular press or
various pregnancy-related websites repeat the assertion or a worried
pregnant patient inquires about the truthfulness of this statement. A second
, oft-quoted concern is that ultrasound leads to heating of the amniotic
fluid. These two assertions may be very concerning to expectant parents and
merit scientific scrutiny. In this editorial, we shall examine the known
facts about the physical properties of ultrasound as they relate to these
two issues. Diagnostic ultrasound employs a pulsed sound wave with positive
and negative pressures and the Mayo team, quoted in the New Scientist,
predicted that the pulsing would translate into a "tapping" effect 1.
According to their report, they placed a tiny hydrophone inside a woman's
uterus while she was undergoing an ultrasound examination. They stated that
they picked up a hum at around the frequency of the pulsing generated when
the ultrasound is switched on and off. The sound was similar to the highest
notes on a piano. They also indicated that when the ultrasound probe was
pointed right at the hydrophone, it registered a level of 100 decibels, as
loud as a subway train coming into a station. Sound levels in decibels are
defined for audible frequencies with the reference level being the threshold
for hearing at a given frequency. Although the operating frequencies used
in sonography are inaudible, it is possible for the pulsing rate (pulse
repetition frequency, PRF) to be heard, thus falling in the audible range. A
previous report had hinted at similar phenomena 3.Ultrasound is a pressure
wave with a frequency beyond (ultra) that detectable in the human auditory
system. The human ear can discern sound at roughly 20 - 20 000 cycles (hertz
) per second. The frequencies of diagnostic ultrasound are roughly 1 - 10
megahertz (MHz) or 1 000 000 to 10 000 000 cycles per second. It is a form
of energy and, as such, may have effects in tissues it traverses. Any
consequences occurring in living tissues secondary to an external influence
are called biological effects or bioeffects. This term does not imply damage
or harm. The two major mechanisms for bioeffects are thermal and non-
thermal. Thermal effects are secondary to ultrasound energy being converted
into heat in the tissue (indirect effect of ultrasound) and non-thermal
effects are secondary to the alternating positive and negative pressures
generated by the wave (direct effect). The definition of moderately loud
sound is 60 - 70 dB (2 × 10-3-2 × 10-2 Pa), defined as high urban ambient
sound, normal conversation at 1 m, or living room music 4. In comparison,
quiet conversation is 40 dB, a railway diesel engine passing at 45 mph at
100 feet is 80 - 85 dB and a rock band is 110 dB 4. There have been a few
publications describing harm to fetuses exposed to elevated levels of
ambient noise, particularly industrial noise 567, specifically in the
aircraft and textile industries, but while there have been reports of
impaired hearing in infants who were exposed to ultrasound in the womb,
several rigorous studies have disproved that notion 891011. Furthermore, a
study of fetuses exposed in utero to vibroacoustic stimulation 12 and a
recent study of fetuses exposed to noise generated during an MR exam of the
pregnant women 13 showed no ill effect on the auditory system. There have
been some reports of being able to hear a "hum" during transcranial
ultrasound. This may be the pulse-repetition frequency (PRF), but, if so, it
would be described as a higher pitch, and probably not a "hum". To our
knowledge, this phenomenon has not been investigated. Although the report
mentioned above suggested that diagnostic ultrasound is detectable at
measurable levels in the uterus, there is no independently confirmed, peer-
reviewed, published evidence that the fetus actually hears the PRF, responds
to it or is harmed by it."The fetus cannot regulate its own body
temperature, so amniotic fluid can reach very high temperatures over long
periods" 14. Does this statement reflect a real risk? What does it mean if
this statement is scientifically true? The fear is, of course, that this
will raise the temperature of the fetus. Thermally induced teratogenesis has
been demonstrated in many animal studies, as well as several controlled
human studies 1516. A temperature increase of 1.5 °C above the normal value
has been suggested as a universal threshold 17. It is important to note
that diagnostic ultrasound was not the source of the temperature elevation
in any of these studies. Some believe that there are temperature thresholds
for hyperthermia-induced birth defects (hence the ALARA [as low as
reasonably achievable] principle), but there is some evidence that any
positive temperature differential for any period of time has some effect, in
other words there may be no thermal threshold for hyperthermia-induced
birth defects 18. In experimental animals the most common defects are
microcephaly with associated functional and behavioral problems 17,
microphthalmia and cataracts. There are reports on the effects of
hyperthermia and measurements of in vivo temperature induced by pulsed
ultrasound but not in humans 192021. Temperature increases of 1 °C are
easily reached in routine scanning 22. Elevation of up to 1.5 °C can be
obtained in the first trimester and up to 4 °C in the second and third
trimesters, particularly with the use of pulsed Doppler 23. When the
ultrasound wave travels through tissue, its intensity diminishes with
distance (attenuation). In completely homogeneous materials, the signal
amplitude is reduced only by beam divergence and absorption (conversion of
sound to heat). However, biologic tissues are non-homogeneous and further
weakening occurs due to scattering. The issue of temperature increase in the
amniotic fluid is based on the fact that the energy of the ultrasound waves
is partially converted to heat in the tissue traversed by the waves.
Tissues with a high absorption coefficient (such as bone) will produce a
high conversion rate while the conversion will be lower in tissues with low
absorption. Fluids have very low absorption characteristics and, therefore,
the risk of temperature elevation in the amniotic fluid is minimal. The only
available study on the topic did not demonstrate any increase in
temperature in the amniotic fluid when performing diagnostic ultrasound,
both in grayscale anatomic imaging (sonography) and Doppler ultrasound 24.
ConclusionWhile ultrasound is a sound wave which can produce mechanical
effects and temperature elevation in tissues that it traverses, the risk to
human fetuses when using diagnostic ultrasound appears to be minimal if
certain rules are followed, such as performing a scan when medically
indicated, and observing the ALARA principle (using the lowest output power
consistent with acquiring the necessary diagnostic information and keeping
the exposure time as low as possible for accurate diagnosis).
© Georg Thieme Verlag KG Stuttgart · New York. | c******e
发帖数: 3843 | 23 不是这样的吧。。我因为胎儿小。住院一周。high risk医生每天来看我。。一天两个b
超。。。。 | az
发帖数: 16686 | 24 国内的妈妈电视也不看，手机也不打，出入都是防辐射服。。。Ultrasound技术都是进
口的，国内之外就是安全的，到了国内都不安全了，难道只进口不安全的Ultrasound技
术了啊。。。不过严格地说，也没啥事绝对安全的。。。权衡利弊罢了。。。生孩子本
身也是风险很大的事情啊。。。为什么看high risk那要问你OB了。。。超过35的高龄
一般是不足以看high risk的。。。若干疾病不过是基因突变而已，跟你老大正常不，
顺利不，家族史都没关系的。。。年纪大了不过突变的几率变大了许多而已。。。
【在 H******C 的大作中提到】
: 是细胞烧伤，用的是老鼠。
: 谢谢建议。下周见 OB 再谈谈看。听他的意思是说没有意外的话，总共需要做两个
: ultrasound, 一个 regular, 一个 high-risk ultrasound. 看来和这儿的很多妈妈比
: 都不算什么的。不过国内的妈妈们基本都不做的。
| t*****u
发帖数: 8966 | 25 孕期ultrasound是invasive??
你到底做的什么ultrasound的啊？ | Q*B
发帖数: 570 | 26 细胞烧伤的ultrasound和怀孕的完全不一样。
ultrasound现在的热门新功用是烧脂肪。那功率大的多了去了 | N******0
发帖数: 1831 | 27 我看了比较无语滴说
我怀孕那会每次产检都做ULTRASOUND | N****n
发帖数: 4179 | 28 什么时候u/s成了invasive 的了？
。
【在 H******C 的大作中提到】
: 我对医疗检查等总是天生的害怕.尤其是 invasive procedure.
: 不知道 high-risk ultrasound 和 anatomy ultrasound 是不是一回事？
: 其他各种检查都没做的情况下, OB 一开始就认定我要去见 high-risk specialist。
: 可能就是因为高龄问题。或者再阴暗的猜测一下，或者是给 high-risk specialist 关
: 系户拉生意？ 医疗行业让病人做不必要的检查手术的情况实在是太多了。
: 希望能象楼上各位妈妈一样，孕期顺顺利利。
| W********t
发帖数: 116 | 29 在动物身上有影响，但人身上数据显示没有哇。如果你是high risk pregnancy，还是
做比较好吧。 | L*******7
发帖数: 14902 | 30 估计是说阴超
【在 N****n 的大作中提到】
: 什么时候u/s成了invasive 的了？
:
: 。
| | | k***e
发帖数: 135 | 31 你的无知对宝宝太不负责任了
specialist
★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.7
【在 H******C 的大作中提到】
: 马上就六个月了,最近保险下来了去约了个OB 用 Doppler 听了听胎儿心跳,正常.约好
: 下周抽血,再做一个 regular ultrasound. OB 说下面还要再到 high-risk specialist
: 那儿再去做一个 ultrasound.
: 回来想了想,越来越不想去 high-risk specialist 那儿去了.据说 ultrasound 对胎儿
: 有潜在的危险. 一个 regular ultrasound, 看看宫颈, fluid, anatomy 之类的不久可
: 以了吗? 我有个大宝,孕期一切顺利,生产顺利. 难道就因为我现在高龄, 就要去看
: high-risk specialist?
: 可以跟 OB 谈不去 high-risk specialist 那儿去吗? 实在要去抽血可以,但不原意再
: 做 ultrasound.
| n***a
发帖数: 1373 | 32 You can refuse anything. Nobody can force you.
Ultrasound is safe based on many years of experience and evidence on human.
If you have doubt, ask your doctor about benefits and risks.
specialist
【在 H******C 的大作中提到】
: 马上就六个月了,最近保险下来了去约了个OB 用 Doppler 听了听胎儿心跳,正常.约好
: 下周抽血,再做一个 regular ultrasound. OB 说下面还要再到 high-risk specialist
: 那儿再去做一个 ultrasound.
: 回来想了想,越来越不想去 high-risk specialist 那儿去了.据说 ultrasound 对胎儿
: 有潜在的危险. 一个 regular ultrasound, 看看宫颈, fluid, anatomy 之类的不久可
: 以了吗? 我有个大宝,孕期一切顺利,生产顺利. 难道就因为我现在高龄, 就要去看
: high-risk specialist?
: 可以跟 OB 谈不去 high-risk specialist 那儿去吗? 实在要去抽血可以,但不原意再
: 做 ultrasound.
|
|
