T*****n
发帖数: 2456 | 1 【 以下文字转载自 TrustInJesus 讨论区 】
发信人: Torasan (真辛苦), 信区: TrustInJesus
标 题: 摩门教徒西进犹他州的历史，就是一部
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Nov 14 14:02:24 2013, 美东)
印第安人Ute people的悲惨史。
—— 读 Black Hawk War (1865–72) 有感。
来围观一下Bear River大屠杀
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear_River_Massacre
the Mormon settlers in Cache Valley expressed their gratitude for "the
movement of Col. Connor as an intervention of the Almighty" in their behalf.
Circleville屠杀，居然被称为“Incident”
http://historytogo.utah.gov/utah_chapters/american_indians/circ
战争结局，摩门教徒可以大胆西进犹它的时候，也是Ute的悲剧：
Black Hawk's War was a disaster for the Northern Utes. They were forced
permanently onto the Uintah Reservation to live dependent on corrupt
government agents. No promises made in any treaty were fulfilled completely.
Terms of treaties which restricted the Utes were rigidly enforced, but
promises in the treaty which territorial officials and Mormon leaders put
their names to were largely ignored. Intra-tribal divisions arose which
persisted to modern times. The Ute were forced to give up their traditional
way of life and left to fend for themselves in one of the least habitable
parts of Utah. Disease, living conditions, hopelessness, alcoholism, and
poverty reduced Ute populations drastically. While it is difficult to
estimate moving populations, Dimick Huntington, an interpreter for the
territorial government, estimated that there were perhaps 23,000 Native
Americans in Utah in 1865. In 1872 he estimated the number at 10,000. While
these numbers seem exaggerated to modern historians, it indicates that the
period took a terrible toll on the Utes. Not everyone in those estimates
died, many simply moved out of the territory, but the number of deaths by
disease, starvation, and the war was catastrophic for Northern Utes. Ute
population continued the steep decline, so that as of this writing (2008)
there are 3,120 Northern Utes enrolled, up from 2500 in 1980.
今天的摩门教，在宣扬爱爱爱爱的同时，是不是也应该对欠下血债的Ute People做一些
补偿？ | m****a
发帖数: 9485 | 2 Thanks for posting this, it is always good to learn from the history.
but did you noticed quote from this Wiki article?
----Brigham Young made the policy that Mormon settlers should establish
friendly relations with the surrounding American Indian tribes. He
encouraged their
helping to "feed them rather than fight them".
I don’t see anything changed today, love is the true principle of the
gospel,Actually this event is mostly done by the government troops at that
time,-- 2nd Regiment California Volunteer Cavalry. not LDS people.
behalf.
【在 T*****n 的大作中提到】
: 【 以下文字转载自 TrustInJesus 讨论区 】
: 发信人: Torasan (真辛苦), 信区: TrustInJesus
: 标 题: 摩门教徒西进犹他州的历史，就是一部
: 发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Nov 14 14:02:24 2013, 美东)
: 印第安人Ute people的悲惨史。
: —— 读 Black Hawk War (1865–72) 有感。
: 来围观一下Bear River大屠杀
: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear_River_Massacre
: the Mormon settlers in Cache Valley expressed their gratitude for "the
: movement of Col. Connor as an intervention of the Almighty" in their behalf.
| T*****n
发帖数: 2456 | 3 拜托，把杨百翰的那个段落读读完吧，后面写道
Despite the policy, the settlers were consuming significant food resources
and taking over areas that pushed the Shoshone increasingly into areas of
marginal food production. David II. Burr, Surveyor General of the Territory
of Utah reported in 1856 that the local Shoshone Indians complained that the
Mormons had so used the Cache Valley that the once abundant game no longer
appeared.[8] In addition, the foraging and hunting by settlers traveling on
the western migration trails took additional resources away from the
Shoshone. As early as 1859 Jacob Forney, the Superintendent of Indian
Affairs for the Territory of Utah, recognized the impact of migrants,
writing, "The Indians...have become impoverished by the introduction of a
white population". He recommended that an Indian Reservation be established
in Cache Valley to protect essential resources for the Shoshone. His
superiors at the U.S. Dept. of Interior did not act on his proposal.[9]
Desperate and starving, the Shoshone attacked farms and cattle ranches for
food, as a matter not just of revenge but survival.
另外Bear River大屠杀的凶手Connor，摩门的评价是the Mormon settlers in Cache
Valley expressed their gratitude for "the movement of Col. Connor as an
intervention of the Almighty" in their behalf.
【在 m****a 的大作中提到】
: Thanks for posting this, it is always good to learn from the history.
: but did you noticed quote from this Wiki article?
: ----Brigham Young made the policy that Mormon settlers should establish
: friendly relations with the surrounding American Indian tribes. He
: encouraged their
: helping to "feed them rather than fight them".
: I don’t see anything changed today, love is the true principle of the
: gospel,Actually this event is mostly done by the government troops at that
: time,-- 2nd Regiment California Volunteer Cavalry. not LDS people.
:
| T*****n
发帖数: 2456 | 4 再说这个杨百翰，闯别人地盘里抢地盘抢资源，然后说 "better to feed them than
fight them"，这个搞笑程度和日支亲善五族和谐东亚共荣是一个级别的，以为印第安
人都领你的良民证么？同时暗地里找政府军援助，镇压敢于保卫家园的印第安原住民，
这种“love”真是一文不值。
印第安人也真是挫，到今天也没有能发出自己的声音，都需要我等外族人，还有《与狼
共舞》给他们打抱不平？这里有本书，提到这段历史在美国历史中rarely mentioned
in histories of the American West，让人为印第安人感到不值。
http://www.amazon.com/Utahs-Black-Hawk-Alton-Peterson/dp/087480
来围观一下Black Hawk War全进程，不知道摩门教如何洗白？战争结局一目了然，一眼
明白谁有利谁倒霉了
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Hawk_War_(1865-1872)
-- After 1872 Mormons in Utah were able to expand settlements as immigrants
swelled valley populations without the threat of Ute resistance.
-- Black Hawk's War was a disaster for the Northern Utes. They were forced
permanently onto the Uintah Reservation to live dependent on corrupt
government agents. No promises made in any treaty were fulfilled completely.
如果真想得到尊重，必须尊重历史，承认错误。 | m****a
发帖数: 9485 | 5
现在的美国是一个移民国家，在移民过程产生的冲撞只能说明人是容易从利益争夺，沟
通不当而导致的结果，很理解你为印第安人鸣不平，我们教会的人跟其他教会人一样，
都是需要耶稣拯救的罪人，如果都完美了，还需要福音吗？
如果说能够洗白所有人的错误，罪，也只有耶稣基督的赎价牺牲了，早在地球还没成形
的时候，当天父想把他的子女送到地球来的时候，神知道我们会犯错，才有了耶稣的救
恩计划。但是重要的是，他期待他的儿女在人世间增长经验，能够从犯错中学到教训，
能够有机会悔改而不再犯。
【在 T*****n 的大作中提到】
: 再说这个杨百翰，闯别人地盘里抢地盘抢资源，然后说 "better to feed them than
: fight them"，这个搞笑程度和日支亲善五族和谐东亚共荣是一个级别的，以为印第安
: 人都领你的良民证么？同时暗地里找政府军援助，镇压敢于保卫家园的印第安原住民，
: 这种“love”真是一文不值。
: 印第安人也真是挫，到今天也没有能发出自己的声音，都需要我等外族人，还有《与狼
: 共舞》给他们打抱不平？这里有本书，提到这段历史在美国历史中rarely mentioned
: in histories of the American West，让人为印第安人感到不值。
: http://www.amazon.com/Utahs-Black-Hawk-Alton-Peterson/dp/087480
: 来围观一下Black Hawk War全进程，不知道摩门教如何洗白？战争结局一目了然，一眼
: 明白谁有利谁倒霉了
| T*****n
发帖数: 2456 | 6 说了半天大道理，实际上摩门教到底给印第安人道歉补偿了没有？
【在 m****a 的大作中提到】
:
: 现在的美国是一个移民国家，在移民过程产生的冲撞只能说明人是容易从利益争夺，沟
: 通不当而导致的结果，很理解你为印第安人鸣不平，我们教会的人跟其他教会人一样，
: 都是需要耶稣拯救的罪人，如果都完美了，还需要福音吗？
: 如果说能够洗白所有人的错误，罪，也只有耶稣基督的赎价牺牲了，早在地球还没成形
: 的时候，当天父想把他的子女送到地球来的时候，神知道我们会犯错，才有了耶稣的救
: 恩计划。但是重要的是，他期待他的儿女在人世间增长经验，能够从犯错中学到教训，
: 能够有机会悔改而不再犯。
| g*******u
发帖数: 3948 | | H******9
发帖数: 8087 | |
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