d*****o
发帖数: 2868 | 1 1. there is no way that you can drive electric car on a long distance trip,
takes way too much time for the car to be fully charged. when im driving a
500mi trip, the last thing i want do is wait at the charging station for 2
hrs, so my car can be fully charged.
2. even if you use the car for commuting purpose only, you need a garage to
charge it over night, and not every1 in america has a garage. many people
live in apts, condos and they use the car for both commuting and long
distance driving.
3. who knows how long the car battery will last. Over time, the battery
life will deteriorate, and eventually it will need to be replaced. a well
maintained gas powered engine will run 150k-200k mi without any issues. life
span of car battery? who knows
4. gas price these days is pretty cheap, around $2/gal on average. the gas
mileage on a commuter car is around 35mpg/gal, which is not bad at all.
bottom line, electric car sounds good on paper. no emission, saves the
environment, tesla model looks cool, no more oil change, filter change, this
, that... but in reality, owning an electric car can be very inconvenient
and impractical for most people.
imo, in order for people to really start buying or consider electric cars,
tesla and other electric car manufacturers need to build charging stations,
lots of them! also, the charging time needs to be reduced! 10-15 mins max!
the life span of the car battery can be solved if the car manufacturers are
willing to offer a 150k mi/10 years warranty or something similar.
lastly, if you really have $66,000 or more to spend on an vehicle, do you
really want to buy something that requires you to charge it every 250-300mi
and use it pretty much for commuting only? OR you want to buy something that
you can use for both commuting and long distance driving, i would pick the
latter. | h******k
发帖数: 15372 | 2 部分人口密度高的大城市会有一定程度的普及，做市内通勤用。10年内大部分车不会被
电动取代。 | F***Q
发帖数: 6599 | 3 #1:
incorrect, PHEVs can travel long distance without recharging
#2:
incorrect too, nearly all EVs (BEV/PHEV) can be charged from a household
outlet (that's called Level 1/L1 charging) that is abundant in any garage.
#3:
it is not unknown anymore. for several models, it has been long enough that
the lifespans of different batteries can be tested by both the manufacturers
and the existing cars on the road. yes there is degradation, but it is less
than what people had speculated
so far temperature regulated battery packs show little degradation over long
mileage:
https://electrek.co/2016/06/06/tesla-model-s-battery-pack-data-degradation/
http://www.hybridcars.com/zero-battery-degradation-replacements-giving-chevy-volts-an-edge/
#4
despite the low gas price, EVs on average still save 50% in fuel cost, in
addition to much lower maintenance cost.
believe it or not, EV sales are increased exponentially. I see EVs on my way
to work every day. the garage at work already has a dozen of EVs. Many of
my colleagues and friends bought EVs in the past few years. so, this is
already happening, if you buy an EV
now, you don't even qualify as an early adopter (but still good enough to be
qualified for the tax credit). | d*****o
发帖数: 2868 | 4 #1, i was talking about electric car, not hybrid
#2, if you are living in an apt or condo, and you don't even have a garage,
where can you get the outlet from
#3, relatively speaking, unlike gas powered engine, which has existed for
over a century, electric car, or even hybrid are still new technology. Even
if what you said is true, it will take more than just several models to
really prove that the car battery is reliable and will last a long time.
that
manufacturers
less
【在 F***Q 的大作中提到】
: #1:
: incorrect, PHEVs can travel long distance without recharging
: #2:
: incorrect too, nearly all EVs (BEV/PHEV) can be charged from a household
: outlet (that's called Level 1/L1 charging) that is abundant in any garage.
: #3:
: it is not unknown anymore. for several models, it has been long enough that
: the lifespans of different batteries can be tested by both the manufacturers
: and the existing cars on the road. yes there is degradation, but it is less
: than what people had speculated
| d*****o
发帖数: 2868 | 5 at this point, the typical person thats going to buy a tesla s model
1. has a garage
2. married and has 2 cars, 1 electric for commuting, other one for long
distance
3. according to google, the starting price for the tesla model s is $66,000
definitely not for the average joe who makes $40k a yr. most likely, the
person thats willing to shed out $66k will make a 6 figures salary.
most people in america don't get to 1,2 and 3 until they are in their 40s. | F***Q
发帖数: 6599 | 6
plugin hybrid (PHEV) is EV, and is different from regular hybrid. see EV101
http://www.energy.gov/eere/videos/energy-101-electric-vehicles
and powertrain classification
,
if you don't have access to a regular outlet, you would not consider an EV
in the first place, even though, there are PHEV owners who drive the car as
if it is a hybrid without charging. the efficiency is not bad actually.
Even
what more do you want to prove? if the technology works as expected now, it
can only work better a few years later.
【在 d*****o 的大作中提到】
: #1, i was talking about electric car, not hybrid
: #2, if you are living in an apt or condo, and you don't even have a garage,
: where can you get the outlet from
: #3, relatively speaking, unlike gas powered engine, which has existed for
: over a century, electric car, or even hybrid are still new technology. Even
: if what you said is true, it will take more than just several models to
: really prove that the car battery is reliable and will last a long time.
:
: that
: manufacturers
| d*****o
发帖数: 2868 | 7 #1, i guess i was talking about a pure electric car, something that uses
electricity only. phev uses both gasoline and electricity
#2, if you are going to buy a electric or hybrid car, preferably, you want
to have a place where you can charge it overnight
#3, if im going to spend over $30k on a hybrid/electric vehicle, personally,
i feel like i need more data and time to convince me that electric/hybrid
is the way to go
lastly, i understand you are in love with electric/hybrid cars. Quiet
honestly, i have nothing against it either. the first lawn mower that i
bought was electricity powered, except after using it for 5 months, the
battery life was too short for me to accept, so i replaced with a gas
powered one.
at this point, at least for me, the cons of owning an electric vehicle
outweighs the pros so much, and i will just stick w/ gas for now. maybe
down the road, once electric car manufacturers fix some of the issues that i
mentioned above (charging time, battery degradation, cost, reliability..),
i will reconsider.
EV101
as
it
【在 F***Q 的大作中提到】
:
: plugin hybrid (PHEV) is EV, and is different from regular hybrid. see EV101
: http://www.energy.gov/eere/videos/energy-101-electric-vehicles
: and powertrain classification
: ,
: if you don't have access to a regular outlet, you would not consider an EV
: in the first place, even though, there are PHEV owners who drive the car as
: if it is a hybrid without charging. the efficiency is not bad actually.
: Even
: what more do you want to prove? if the technology works as expected now, it
| u****q
发帖数: 24345 | 8 Federal tax incentive一旦取消，大部分电车会停售。 | d*****o
发帖数: 2868 | 9 pros and cons of owning an hybrid/electric car
pros
1. saves the environment, no emission
2. tesla model s looks cool
* the word "cool" is purely subjective
3. no more maintenance required, except the battery
cons
1. hybrid/electric cars generally are more expensive than gas powered
vehicles
base on the website below, on average, imo, electric cars cost around $10k
more than similar gas powered vehicle
http://evobsession.com/electric-cars-2014-list/
2. an electricity powered car(not gas and electricity combined) can be used
for commuting only, due to its charging limitation | o****p
发帖数: 9785 | 10 第一代的电车lease都快结束了，等着看好戏吧 | | | d*****o
发帖数: 2868 | 11 this is cool!
These roads will charge cars as they drive
http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/18/technology/uk-electric-cars-roads/
my concerns
1. how much does it cost to build roads like these? i would assume it is not
cheap, but over time, just like other technologies, the cost of building
these roads should go down.
2. is the government willing to build roads like these in rural areas.
One of the limitations of pure electric powered vehicle is long distance
driving.
3. does the electric car driver have to pay to drive on roads like theses.
if yes, how much | F***Q
发帖数: 6599 | 12
that is a flawed assumption. it is not going to happen in short terms.
there are already 8 states have committed to put 3.3 million EVs on the road
by 2025
https://www.arb.ca.gov/newsrel/2013/8s_zev_mou.pdf
so some incentives will be here for a long time.
The only thing will like to happen is the federal tax credit will phase out
for a few manufacturers (Tesla/GM/Nissan) in a a few years. But in the
meantime, cost of battery will drop significantly to compensate for the
difference. with the growth of the market, the economy of scale will
eventually drop the cost significantly
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economies_of_scale
【在 u****q 的大作中提到】
: Federal tax incentive一旦取消，大部分电车会停售。
| u****q
发帖数: 24345 | 13 “cost of battery will drop significantly”，有根据吗？
road
out
【在 F***Q 的大作中提到】
:
: that is a flawed assumption. it is not going to happen in short terms.
: there are already 8 states have committed to put 3.3 million EVs on the road
: by 2025
: https://www.arb.ca.gov/newsrel/2013/8s_zev_mou.pdf
: so some incentives will be here for a long time.
: The only thing will like to happen is the federal tax credit will phase out
: for a few manufacturers (Tesla/GM/Nissan) in a a few years. But in the
: meantime, cost of battery will drop significantly to compensate for the
: difference. with the growth of the market, the economy of scale will
| F***Q
发帖数: 6599 | 14
that is a requirement, unfortunately.
personally,
but if you consider the $7500~$10k tax credit, your actual cost is
comparable to an economic car. I look at it this way, if I am paying the
same money, what would be the reason for me to get an ICE car? it is noisy,
unsmooth, slow acceleration, can not refuel at home, can not drive on HOV
with single occupancy, does not handle turning as nicely, even, in the rare
event, can not be used as an emergency power generator during power outage.
If they cost about the same with tax benefit, I don't see any reason to buy
an ICE car (unless the seating space can not meet your needs). After driving
them over 2 years, I can also say that they drive better than any ICE car I
've driven before.
also, my volts were 40k/35k MSRP, but with dealer discounts and federal/
state incentives, my purchase prices were only 60% of MSRP and both continue
to pay themselves by saving gas everyday.
you were in bad luck I guess. My cordless mower has worked flawlessly for 4
years, with 0 maintenance. ... anyways, to actually feel the difference, you
need to test drive one yourself, then you can make a better judgement.
【在 d*****o 的大作中提到】
: #1, i guess i was talking about a pure electric car, something that uses
: electricity only. phev uses both gasoline and electricity
: #2, if you are going to buy a electric or hybrid car, preferably, you want
: to have a place where you can charge it overnight
: #3, if im going to spend over $30k on a hybrid/electric vehicle, personally,
: i feel like i need more data and time to convince me that electric/hybrid
: is the way to go
: lastly, i understand you are in love with electric/hybrid cars. Quiet
: honestly, i have nothing against it either. the first lawn mower that i
: bought was electricity powered, except after using it for 5 months, the
| F***Q
发帖数: 6599 | | d*****o
发帖数: 2868 | 16 sounds good FangQ. when im in the market to buy a new car, not going to
happen any time soon, i will at least consider a hybrid/electric, :-) | F***Q
发帖数: 6599 | 17
good, and they will only become cheaper by that time (with longer range of
course).
my next car will likely be a BEV/PHEV SUV with 5-7 seats, but I am not in a
hurry either. will enjoy my volt for another few years.
【在 d*****o 的大作中提到】
: sounds good FangQ. when im in the market to buy a new car, not going to
: happen any time soon, i will at least consider a hybrid/electric, :-)
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