f**********4
发帖数: 2617 | 1 "匈奴人的一部跑到了芬兰，成了现在的芬兰人"
Nonsense...
Linguisticly: Uralic - Finnic - Finnish, Uralic - Hungarian. So Hungarian is
similar to Finnish, but not too much. The closest and not too rare language
to Finnish is Estonian: Uralic - Finnic - Estonian.
Uralic language were spoken mostly among the tribes living in the very
northern part of Europe and Asia. Xiongnu, and the Huns, are nomadic peoples
living southerner to them. If there is a hypothesis about European
descending from Xiongnu, that would be the "X... 阅读全帖 |
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f**********4
发帖数: 2617 | 2 You are talking about pronunciation (and Cantonese does not necessarily
represent ancient Chinese phonology). I am talking about people. And this
ancient hypothesis of Xiongnu->Huns is lack of evidence. I believe there may
be some Xiongnu blood inside Huns, but Huns can not be called the
descendant of Xiongnu. |
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y***k
发帖数: 9459 | 3 Since Joseph de Guignes in the 18th century, historians have associated the
Huns who appeared on the borders of Europe in the 4th century AD with the
Xiongnu ("howling slaves") who had invaded China from the territory of
present-day Mongolia between the 3rd century BC and the 2nd century AD.[20][
21] Due to the devastating defeat by the Chinese Han dynasty, the northern
branch of the Xiongnu had retreated north-westward; their descendants may
have migrated through Eurasia and consequently they m... 阅读全帖 |
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i***z
发帖数: 7508 | 4 A majority (89%) of the Xiongnu mtDNA sequences can be classified as
belonging to Asian haplogroups, and nearly 11% belong to European
haplogroups. This finding indicates that the contacts between European and
Asian populations were anterior to the Xiongnu culture, and it confirms
results reported for two samples from an early 3rd century B.C. Scytho-
Siberian population (Clisson et al. 2002). |
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R********n
发帖数: 3601 | 5 【 以下文字转载自 Military 讨论区 】
发信人: youdu (青青子衿), 信区: Military
标 题: 蒙古举行国际匈奴后裔大聚会
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun May 25 11:10:49 2014, 美东)
蒙古举行国际匈奴后裔大聚会
不久以前，认为自己是匈奴后裔的一些人在蒙古举行了国际匈奴后裔大会。库里尔台，
蒙古语为Khuraldai，突厥语为Kurultai，匈牙利语为Kurultaj，意思是“集会”。
今天说阿尔泰语和乌拉尔语的人们，被称为“图兰（Turan）”，他们都是匈奴的后裔
，包括今天的蒙古人、满洲人、突厥人、日本人、匈牙利人等。
东京国立博物馆里关于日本人的起源，就认为自己的祖先就是来自大陆草原的匈奴 。
蒙古国北部额金河（Egiin Gol）发现2000年前的匈奴古墓，根据对古墓中219具尸体的
DNA检测，匈奴的基因成分与现代蒙古人和日本人的基因高度匹配，以蒙古人种为主，
另有11%的欧洲人成分。
无论匈奴、鲜卑、柔然、突厥原本都不是草原民族的概念，而是草原中人们的政治集
团的概念，他们本身在语言、习俗和基因上都是相通并且一脉... 阅读全帖 |
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A*******8
发帖数: 1453 | 6 商周之际根本没有突厥这个概念，连原始突厥语也不可能追溯到那么远。维基上有这么
一段话，很清楚：
It is generally agreed that the first Turkic people lived in a region
extending from Central Asia to Siberia, with the majority of them living in
China historically. Historically they were established after the 6th century
BCE.[62] The earliest separate Turkic peoples appeared on the peripheries
of the late Xiongnu confederation about 200 BC [62] (contemporaneous with
the Chinese Han Dynasty).[63] Turkic people may be related to the Xiongnu,
Dingli... 阅读全帖 |
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y***u
发帖数: 7039 | 7 蒙古举行国际匈奴后裔大聚会
不久以前，认为自己是匈奴后裔的一些人在蒙古举行了国际匈奴后裔大会。库里尔台，
蒙古语为Khuraldai，突厥语为Kurultai，匈牙利语为Kurultaj，意思是“集会”。
今天说阿尔泰语和乌拉尔语的人们，被称为“图兰（Turan）”，他们都是匈奴的后裔
，包括今天的蒙古人、满洲人、突厥人、日本人、匈牙利人等。
东京国立博物馆里关于日本人的起源，就认为自己的祖先就是来自大陆草原的匈奴 。
蒙古国北部额金河（Egiin Gol）发现2000年前的匈奴古墓，根据对古墓中219具尸体的
DNA检测，匈奴的基因成分与现代蒙古人和日本人的基因高度匹配，以蒙古人种为主，
另有11%的欧洲人成分。
无论匈奴、鲜卑、柔然、突厥原本都不是草原民族的概念，而是草原中人们的政治集
团的概念，他们本身在语言、习俗和基因上都是相通并且一脉相承的。
中国人常常强调“文化”和“认同感”，而这些匈奴后裔对祖先的认同，却是真正
超越文化、超越种族的。
萨满祭祀，萨满文化今天仍然存在于蒙古国与土耳其。
蒙古代表，匈奴本部的后裔，所谓游牧民族，历史上这片土地的人几乎全部迁徙出
去，他们去到俄... 阅读全帖 |
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c*********d
发帖数: 9770 | 8 发表于 2015 年 09 月 01 日 由 方壶斋
The Eighteen Songs of Cai Wenji
我生之初尚無為，我生之後漢祚衰。天不仁兮降亂離，地不仁兮使我逢此時。干戈日尋
兮道路危，民卒流亡兮共哀悲。煙塵蔽野兮胡虜盛，志意乖兮節義虧。對殊俗兮非我宜
，遭惡辱兮當告誰？笳一會兮琴一拍，心憤怨兮無人知。’
When I was born the country was in peace
When I grew up she was like broken cheese
Chaos came down from an unkind heaven
From the unkind earth came this ill fortune
Spears and swords clang on the dangerous roads
In sadness, refugees flock together like goats
In the dusty wilderness the Xiongnu captured a lot
Bending the wills and virt... 阅读全帖 |
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w*****9
发帖数: 2193 | 9 【 以下文字转载自 ChineseClassics 讨论区 】
发信人: chinabbsdad (张果老他爹), 信区: ChineseClassics
标 题: 胡笳十八拍英译
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Sep 3 11:28:58 2015, 美东)
发表于 2015 年 09 月 01 日 由 方壶斋
The Eighteen Songs of Cai Wenji
我生之初尚無為，我生之後漢祚衰。天不仁兮降亂離，地不仁兮使我逢此時。干戈日尋
兮道路危，民卒流亡兮共哀悲。煙塵蔽野兮胡虜盛，志意乖兮節義虧。對殊俗兮非我宜
，遭惡辱兮當告誰？笳一會兮琴一拍，心憤怨兮無人知。’
When I was born the country was in peace
When I grew up she was like broken cheese
Chaos came down from an unkind heaven
From the unkind earth came this ill fortune
Spears and swords clang on the da... 阅读全帖 |
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K*******i
发帖数: 631 | 10 黄种人
ancient DNA data previously obtained from a 2,300-year-old Xiongnu
population of the Egyin Gol Valley were compared with data from two
contemporary Mongolian populations.
The main result of our study was the genetic similarity observed among
Mongolian samples from different periods and geographic areas. This result
supports the hypothesis that the succession over time of different Turkic
and Mongolian tribes in the current territory of Mongolia resulted in
cultural rather than genetic exchan... 阅读全帖 |
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K*******i
发帖数: 631 | 11 扯淡，匈奴突厥蒙古一脉相承，都是C系人，司马迁也被匈奴人忽悠了
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.20429/abstract
In the present study, nuclear (autosomal and Y-chromosome short tandem
repeats) and mitochondrial (hypervariable region I) ancient DNA data
previously obtained from a 2,300-year-old Xiongnu population。。。
。。。 This result supports the hypothesis that the succession over time of
different Turkic and Mongolian tribes in the current territory of Mongolia
resulted in cultural rather than genetic exchanges. |
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K*******i
发帖数: 631 | 12 看文献，在配合我的宝图：
匈奴突厥蒙古一脉相承，所以主体都是C系人，司马迁也被匈奴人忽悠了
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.20429/abstract
In the present study, nuclear (autosomal and Y-chromosome short tandem
repeats) and mitochondrial (hypervariable region I) ancient DNA data
previously obtained from a 2,300-year-old Xiongnu population。。。
。。。 This result supports the hypothesis that the succession over time of
different Turkic and Mongolian tribes in the current territory of Mongolia
resulted in cultural rather than geneti... 阅读全帖 |
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s*****r
发帖数: 11545 | 13 Xiongnu 即 Huns， 辅音异化的结果，在粤语里Ｘ就是Ｈ．
is
language
peoples |
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m***y
发帖数: 14763 | 14 Oh, man, even if it were true, it can't 从文化层面阉割中华民族，不战而胜.
For example, Xiongnu, Turk, Mongolian and Manchurian all contribute to the
Chinese civilization, we are not 阉割'd in any way by these facts, right? |
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m*********a
发帖数: 3299 | 16 Of China’s two dozen imperial dynasties, most founding rulers were non-Han
or only partly Han.
The Shatuo Turks, related to the Uighurs, founded three post-Tang dynasties.
The Xiongnu, Xianbei, Khitan, Jurchen, and Qiang groups founded major
dynasties in the North and the West. And twice, under the Mongols and
Manchus respectively, the nomads conquered and ruled the whole of China. The
China we know today is a product of their conquests: to prevent nomadic
rivals rising on their flank, the Mongo... 阅读全帖 |
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D*****i
发帖数: 8922 | 17 这个反对意见很烂
The Huns practiced artificial cranial deformation, while there is no
evidence of such practice among the Xiongnu.
事实上老毛子在哈萨克斯坦和吉尔吉斯斯坦挖出的的匈奴头骨中就有artificial
cranial deformation，所以artificial cranial deformation不是否认hun是匈奴，恰
恰是支持hun是匈奴。
可以说欧美学界不了解苏俄和中国的研究，很烂。 |
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D*****i
发帖数: 8922 | 18 这一条反对意见也很烂。羯只是匈奴的一个部落，不等于全部匈奴。这些欧美傻逼大概
都读不懂中文典籍。
Ammianus and Jordanes mention the Huns as scarifying infants' faces to
prevent the later growth of beards; the Chinese recorded General Ran Min
having led a military campaign against a faction of the Xiongnu
Confederation called the Jie, who were described as having full beards,
around Ye in 349 AD. |
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m**********7
发帖数: 2191 | 20 这个还没有定论，学术界反复过几次。
现代匈牙利人（Magyars）是Huns的后代，就是阿提拉的后代，Huns现在翻译为匈人。
Huns 和中国北方古代的游牧民族匈奴到底有没有关联是个争议的地方。汉代的匈奴人
以前的英文都直接称之为Huns，其实就是默认认定他们是一家，但是现在都用Xiongnu
以示区别。
现代匈牙利人有个少数民族和东亚人非常像，但是他们是否古代匈奴后代，还是成吉思
汗时过去的还不好说。 |
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k*******r
发帖数: 16963 | 21 匈牙利社科院上个世纪做过研究，早就否认和匈奴有鸡巴关系了，别你妈意淫了。
Xiongnu |
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R*****5
发帖数: 4915 | 22 In recent years, a growing multicultural society has called on Disney to
diversify characters and increase cultural sensitivity in their films. For
the most part, they have responded – see Moana from the same titled movie
and Tiana from the Princess and the Frog. Unfortunately, capable Asian
characters remain few and far between – with millions of Asian girls
looking up to and absorbing the story of Mulan, and the barbarity of her
rivals. This is evident in the character of Mulan being identifie... 阅读全帖 |
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b*s
发帖数: 82482 | 23 这个本不是英文……
耶律，一般好像就是Yelü，如果按照草原帝国里面法国人的写法，是Yeh-Lü
这个雄奴嘛，按照匈奴转写，应该是Hsiung-nu，或者现在汉语拼音就是Xiongnu啦……
古怪一点，就是Yeh-LüHsiung-nu !@#$%^&*
哥是 |
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r****a
发帖数: 1350 | 24
Wikipedia是这么说的 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attila
[Huns] were possibly the descendants of the Xiongnu who had been northern
neighbours of China three hundred years before and may be the first
expansion of Turkic people across Eurasia.
所以 未必是
是那本书 我知道很贵…… 也许有pdf吧 我有影印的 所以没找过 别看中文翻译的就行 |
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