h*****s
发帖数: 3289 | 1 Just got back from local casino.
It's not exactly my first time, as I played twice at TI, Las Vegas during a
crazy road trip last year. They only have 5 or 6 tables.
Played 100NL (2&3) for about 4/5 hours. Two big fishes (A&B) at the table (
playing crappy hands and keeping calling & calling). However, I was card
dead most of the time. There's not much I could do other than seeing other
solid players eating up their buy-ins one by one. One hand i flopped a
broadway,and A called my big re-raise( ... 阅读全帖 |
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d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 2 来自主题: TexasHoldem版 - 说把牌吧
Those
.
into
哥觉得
proud of sucking out ~~ looks stupid
proud of bluffing ~~ looks stupid
proud of hero call ~~ looks stupid
proud of session winnings ~~ still looks stupid
proud of long term winning ~~ well, nothing really to be proud of
反过来，被suckout、被bluff、被抓bluff、连着session输钱、整个poker career输钱
，也不是什么丢脸的事情，玩家还在意这些个事，只能说明，撇开技术，玩家的心理上
，还没有真正的ready来玩winning poker。
holdem有5张公牌，不发到最后一张，绝大多数牌局都会有变数。无论输赢，重视自己
的决策思考过程，放弃对牌力的bias（AK对上27都要3把输一把），淡然面对结果，是
想要长期盈利玩家的必经之路。
可是，对于绝大多数的玩家来说，poker的乐趣就是来自于suckout、b... 阅读全帖 |
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h*****s
发帖数: 3289 | 3 我的两分
我前一阵子刚吹嘘在bovada3个月内从200打到10K+（只打tourney)
但从那以后到现在大概down了快2K....
running like shit.....Dominated hands easily got reversely dominated...
Medium pairs (TT,JJ) easily ran into higher pairs...Premium pairs easily
kept getting cracked by connectors and small pairs.....但问题个人觉得我的%
ITM应该没有显著减少 只是%FT和top3急剧减少 加上每天200+买进 所以才造成了这个
downswing....我现在比较挣扎的是每进钱圈后我的badluck就来了 中间也试图调整打
法 比如premium pairs all in preflop in order to chase away suited connectors
/small pairs 但是就是有些驴总是进来并且suckout on me....
昨天一把我在... 阅读全帖 |
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D********2
发帖数: 2153 | 4 其实硬币连赢2次就是=一个25% underdog suckout,连赢3次就是12.5%的suckout... |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 5 we all learn it one way or another, hehe.
the biggest problem i had with live was: i always felt it's so "hard" (6
hours round trip plus hotel and tolls) to play some poker, so i lowered my
discipline and wanted to play "a little more"... and many times, even i was
still playing "good" poker, i just couldn't come back after a big suckout
within limited time. it made me feel so frustrated on the way home (which i
had to) and like a whole weekend was wasted with some loss. then had to wait
for ano |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 6 $USD is $ actually made.
$USD EV (expected value) is the expected $ made. for example, if you go all-
in with AA vs. KK preflop (both got a stack of $50), you are supposed to win
80% of time, and lose %20. so your EV is 50 * 80% + (-50) * 20% = $30.
so in a particular hand, you may win $50 in the "normal" case, but actaully
in the long term, your EV will not be that high. sooner or later, suckouts
will come.
in general, the closer USD and USD EV are, the more likely you play a
session by skills. |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 7 no, i don't want to mess up with buddies, good fold. doubled twice already with
them (both vs. KK) today, maybe this one was supposed to be a suckout.
stats |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 8 thanks, nice pot and sick suckout, haha. |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 9 yes, but don't expect would fold QQ pre-flop in this spot (after a few
raises) in micro stakes.
it's the typical 4:1 suckout cooler, happens everyday.
relax and move on.
call |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 10 I think i find out why...Today is a day for suckouts... you can only win
when you get in with worse.. lol.
1015 |
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g**s
发帖数: 1114 | 11 my EV is ok, not like you guys suckouts so much...
Guess FTP's monthly period is over... everything backs to mormal... no more
next month!! |
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c****1
发帖数: 457 | 12 donkey move.
不要学我啊。当时纯粹是赌徒心态。
正常情况下应该是fold。
哎。对不住那位被我suckout的兄弟 |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 13 well, pls bear with me, but i'd say all 3 hands were all played poorly.
1) hand 1, you made the same scared money leaking play MM corrected me.
preflop, good move or have to.
flop, your stack is still too big to push all-in here. $335 for a $140 pot,
you either get no callers at all on such a low flop, or run into unfavorable
racing like in this one, or suicide to donk hero's TT/88.
it's very hard for him with KK/QQ to play like this preflop and then call
your flop overbet. this could happen but... 阅读全帖 |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 14 well, lucky but what hands you put him on for his turn shove? (after flop
raise)
over pair out of position on this turn is a weak hand, i won't bet out $10
at all if you don't have a plan for his turn action and your river action.
in the long term, suckouts happen rarely and 2 outers will cost you big. i
mucked my AA in a similar situation yesterday on the turn.
no |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 15 well, you're talking out of the context of BB vs. CO.
again, if this hand is against an EP/MP or a guy whom i have little info. on
, yes, then TPTK here is not strong enough to play for a big pot. as i
posted above, i fold or become cautious in a lot of other AQ alike
situations.
against BB (and aggression level between CO/BTN/SB/BB alike), you can't
simply flat AQ here all the time. QT8 rainbow hits his range well with a lot
of gutshots+pairs. even you flat here against his KQ/QJ/Q9/ alike, wha... 阅读全帖 |
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y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 16 Basically, your play is kind of too passive.
You do not protect your hand well, plus you do not manipulate the pot size
well, if you think you have the best hand, you should manage to put an allin
bet on the river.
You get a lot of suck out. ------ One good comment is said by DUCKU. I
usually play very aggressively, and do not let opponent drawing cheaply, and
do not see showdown, it greatly lowers the suckouts.
Your first hand QQ should definitely to commit on the turn. Even you can put
a small... 阅读全帖 |
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d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 17 求结局
一筐人跟进去了 有没有被suckout |
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d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 18
如果这样的话，不妨来参加我们的home game，boston area，20NL，因为action很多
variance一般在正负2到3个buyin一下午，plus 你可以领教黎叔的donk bluff suckout
river。非常的欢乐，我们还定期组团去foxwoods，有兴趣的话pm我。 |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 19 没有suckout， 就赚不到fish钱了。 这是毫无疑问的。 就是因为fish 任何牌都有机
会赢他们才会和pro坐在一张桌上不停得长期输钱。 没有一个普通人会和李昌镐下棋赌
钱， 因为一般人赢的机会是零。
所以我们要理解
1) poker is about exploiting small edges which require big sample to show a
profit
2）bankroll management的原因和重要性。 something that can not be emphasized
enough。
当你真正理解了这些， 你抗bad beat的能力自然就强了。
篇未语： if you don't think you can run any worse, you will run worse。 共
勉 ^_^
这次vegas之行，看fcf打牌，觉得他的抗bad beat能力很强。他说了一句话我觉得很有
道理，没有bad beat，没有suck out，那fish就不那么爱打poker了........
★ Sent from iPhone Ap... 阅读全帖 |
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d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 20 如果她不是在演
第一句话 她说要suckout ＝＝ 不是aa kk qq
第二句话 她说她不bet你也要bet什么（意思是要bet） ＝＝ 她中了什么东西on board
，或者她是ak aq 多了几个outs
我脚着check fold |
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d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 21 routine是因为commit chips是看range的，你总有unlucky的时候撞倒对手range以上的
monster，所以貌似underdog然后运气好可以suckout，别人也一样
但是坚决反对自杀shove
赶紧把黎叔拖出去办了 |
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p****r
发帖数: 9164 | 22 you are suckout master? :) my vpip is around 90% now, playing heads up. |
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s*********f
发帖数: 155 | 23 After a 2-month hiatus from poker, I went to Turning Stone again last week.
There is a major poker tournament going on so there are more players than
usual.
Bought in for the maximum $ 200 in $1/2 no limit. The table was not too bad.
There were two boys and a black guy who seem weak. After a few orbits, I
limped in with T9o in late position, and the flop was T9x rainbow, giving me
top two pairs. I bet the pot, about $15 and one of the boys called. The turn
was an 8. The pot was about $45. The vi... 阅读全帖 |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 24 This is a risk we have to take. Well...not really risk, but variance.
Another good thing of having a super fish is that almost every one is on
tilt on the table after a few suckouts and turning to a super fish. 然后我们
就可以收网了。
这种事情还有一种可能结局，就是鱼输了全桌，偏偏赢了你一把大的，那才叫郁闷。要
说咱心理素质强，想拼时间，可架不住人突然来一句晚安，呵呵。
★ Sent from iPhone App: iReader Mitbbs Lite 7.28 |
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h*******s
发帖数: 3932 | 25 ☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
TheBigSlick (Ivan) 于 (Mon Nov 21 14:00:50 2011, 美东) 提到:
I don't have many interesting hands to share these days. I am playing boring
poker with either small gains and small loss.
But there was one hand I played serveral weeks ago that I think may be worth
discussion.
I was playing NL2/5 table, villain was a young asian in mid 20s. He sits
down with maybe $300 chips, run up to $500ish when this hand happend. I was
sitting maybe $600 chips and had him c... 阅读全帖 |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 26 $30+绝对要运气，站对方向，能hold住不被suckout也是运气。
象上周五，上来第一把就下去$200，还不算很糟糕了，4：1，毕竟别人有K，还有一些
counterfeit的outs。费了一些劲，之后的牌也还行，填上比较快。
换一种“正常”情况，第一把就up $200，以俺老实八交的风格，再搞几个小pots就完
事回家了，要不了2小时，呵呵。 |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 27 个人感觉，AK/AQ这样的牌，最忌讳的就是打得就象AK/AQ，比如open pot $12什么的，
然后flop不管hit TP没有，c-bet 2/3 pot...尤其没有位置的情况下，这基本是face
up的sitting duck，一般人根据你的size，基本上都会把这两手牌优先考虑到，咱在明
敌在暗的事情是最不爽的，尤其这样的牌，可以说几乎没有什么潜力re-draw，flop上
搞个不大不小的pot，如果又是m-way的话，后面很难受。
delayed c-bet其实可以考虑，适当给别人一些suckout的风险也没什么大不了的，毕竟
后面你还可以根据更多信息判断。
weak call/call/call也不是坏事，当然不要每把都这样，TPTK是个small hand，赢个
中等锅就好。
除非是完全已经打得很loose的桌子。
Maybe |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 28 俄罗斯人live也是一样的，以前home game都让打笑死了，拿钱当手纸的玩，要的只是
某一个那个suckout。 |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 29 easy quick money, no driving, no overnight, no suckout, haha. |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 30 easy quick money, no driving, no overnight, no suckout, haha. |
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T*********k
发帖数: 1621 | 31 I didn't post hands very often recently. I am playing old-man poker so many
hands were not that exciting. Just routine. Win a little money here and
there. Don't remember I sucked out sb. in recent months. My playing style
nowadays decides when the money got all-in, usually I would be ahead. A few
times I gambled and was behind, I never hit anyway.
So last Friday I was in Borgata AC. Yes, it was the Borgata. Won like $300
in 2 hours playing NL2/5. Table broken.
I went to NL1/2 , certainly my stac... 阅读全帖 |
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j**y
发帖数: 7014 | 32 赞连载
赞to be continued......
lol
many
few
make |
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T*********k
发帖数: 1621 | 33 Went to NL 2/5 table and bought $200.
A few mins down to $135. A guy in EP raised $30, fold all the way to me at
btn with AKs. I shoved. The guy tanked and then called. "I gamble!" he
yelled. Flop T, 7, 5, I though "ugh", but wait, he was yelling "9, 9, I need
9". Ok, you are still drawing? good. No 9 on the river. I felt I was
winning. until that guy told me "I only have a T". What? He turned over T9o,
f**k, no wonder.
Re-bought $250. Was raising a lot in LP and stealing the pot before this
han... 阅读全帖 |
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p*******p
发帖数: 13670 | 34 事实证明，能赢都是靠suck out呀，哈哈，提高suck out技术才是王道，什么odds，什
么这个那个分析都是扯淡
many
few
make |
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D*****A
发帖数: 551 | 35 NL2/5 buy in $200? So difficult to play with such short stack. |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 36 hit and run, exactly!
many
few
make |
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g**s
发帖数: 1114 | 37 This actually open a good topic to discuss. Why we think it's "一般不会有"
loose 25BI in live game but "会一般有" on-line?
1.Because the time/volume constrain?
2.Because live game is softer?
3.Because you play differently in live vs on-line?
4.Because you adjust your play when you lose several BI?
5.Because you lost 5 BI and then left?
I can see in live game, when people win/lost several BI, they change their
play style significantly. I do too although not that much. But I don't
change my play style at a... 阅读全帖 |
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T*********k
发帖数: 1621 | 38 A NIT would have ISO short stack with A6o? And shove ATo against KKs and
pray for a suckout?
Finally I were able to sit down and obeserve. Yesterday I saw you open / limp into a pot more than Isildur1 in a heads-up game. At last I can see
through your smoke screen now. You are not week tight as you always adverstised.
You are a big loose cannon!!! |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 39 5分钟，55分钟时开始，HM/PLO都是。
开心了吧？不拿99砸人了吧？不说人家A6o LAG了吧？
哥不过是追求+SE(suckout equity)而已，据说人人有份的嘛。 |
|
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d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 41 这位大侠 sounds like a high roller。
就没必要纠结于这类bad play suckout，coinflip get unlucky之类的牌了吧
以免被老湿喷 lol |
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l*****g
发帖数: 1128 | 42 由于刚忙完了一些事,准备给自己一个break,所以这四天休息时间就天天泡在poker
room里. 住得离赌场很近,就10-15分钟, 一天两个session,跟在vegas似的,由于好久没
这样集中精力玩牌了,刚开始玩有点生疏,找不着状态,后来越玩越多慢慢就进入角色了.
这几天玩了这么多,有很多玩得很好的牌,也有很多玩得很烂的牌.3-5起伏很大,很多人
都是in for 1000 多以上,因为大部分都是直接买1000的,有些人都是连买三四千都不眨
眼的, 我看得都心慌,心想他们钱都哪里来的.很多人都是赢个1000多走人,但输确输几
千,真是太恐怖了.玩了几天才发现都是老面孔, 很多full time的年轻人,都是很疯狂的
,拿着6 high都是300, 500的bet, 而且都是不停bluff,偶尔他们又有点牌,所以把别人
搞得稀里糊涂的.昨天有个疯子小伙turn上bet 75, 另一个疯子立马raise他500,小伙想
半天拿着Ac2c CALL了,他有个flush draw 和 straight draw, 最后miss了, 谁知他ace
high 竟然是大的! anyway,玩... 阅读全帖 |
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t********t
发帖数: 5415 | 43 第一次打就混到PLO分数...从5bb一路shove上来...倒是NLH一路领先最后被suckout...
ps，老大把我名字打错了... |
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d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 44 换了个modem，网络终于正常。可又是悲摧的一天，心态还算好，几把牌可能有问题。
1 6k 33
2 4k 5.5 + 5.5 + 5.5
3 5k 11
4 5k 60 + 60
5 6.5k 33
6 freeroll
7 25k 11
8 35k 60
9 35k 33
1） AJo 20bb 3bet shove EP 2bb open, lost to qq, knockout
2） EP 5bb open, hero reraise to 11bb with AA, LP pro cold shove 110bb, EP
allin call, hero allin call, pro kk, EP TT, flop KTx, pro win, rebuy. 22
limp, flop 245r, set over set lost to the same TT guy, rebuy, 15bb aqo sb
pot squeeze, CO limp/call, flop kjxr, hero cbet pot size as... 阅读全帖 |
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d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 45 4篇日记写下来，bankroll down了将近1k哈，今天又down 400，降级就在眼前，哥实在
是有点无奈。不过这也算是正常，本来学习就是要付出代价，这来回几千的对哥来说也
影响不到生活，相反的戒骄戒躁，该怎么玩就怎么玩，在哥看来才是更重要的，以此与
广大胸怀赌神梦想的有志宅男共勉。
05/27/13
1 4k 11 + 10
2 3k 60 + 55 + 55
3 3k 44 + 40
4 5k 11 + 11 + 11 + 11
5 10k 60
6 4k 33
1) AA win 100bb against JJ on QT2r 3bet flop. Villain is marked as overplay
fish. UTG limp, UTG+1 limp, MP min raise 2bb, BUTTON call, SB call, hero on
BB with KK pot size squeeze 12bb, MP flat, BUTTON flat, flop 456r, BUTTON
shove his rest 2x... 阅读全帖 |
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d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 46 1 1K 11
2 750 3.3 $7.78
3 1.5K 11
4 1K 11
5 1.5K 3.3+3+3 $28.75
6 3K 11+10+10
1号，UTG+1,TJs 12bb open shove，take down。UTG A7o open shove 14bb into QQ,
knockout
2号，大盲位88 14bb 3bet shove rock 2.1x open + a flatter，take down。换桌，
第一把，UTG 16bb open shove with A9o，被两家AJo call到，suckout！紧接着第二
把，AKo，接了16bb 和8bb的两连推，hold！wow！card dead + busy with other
tables ＝ auto ITM，呵呵。hero 大盲位，55 10bb stack call EP 5bb shove>A9s。
UTG+1 TJo 13bb shove，take down。换桌，UTG 33，15bb，看到大小盲均... 阅读全帖 |
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d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 47 1 750 gtd 11
2 750 gtd 3.3 + 3.3 $7.63
3 1.5k gtd 11 $219.42
4 750 gtd 11+11+11 BUBBLED
5 3.5k gtd 11+10+10
6 3.5k gtd 11
7 1k gtd 1.1+1+2+2+1
-110.7 227.05 +117.6
1 AJo 20bb 3bet shove EP pro 2.4x open < QQ, knockout
2 AKs UTG+1 6bb 3bet, MP cold call, other fold. 7d3dAc 7s 8d , flop check,
check, turn check/villain ½ pot/hero 3x shove/villain call with Ad2d,
noted. Re-buy. ITM, KQo EP 14bb open shove<10bb AQo, cri... 阅读全帖 |
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d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 48 "My problem is the first 3-4 hours usually fine. I could get doubled or
almost doubled in 75% of times."
从以前的帖子知道，老虎大哥也是老poker，牌风强悍，经验老到。虽然哥对上面的数
据有点质疑（尤其是当sample量大到一定程度），但是哥相信，在abc的情况下，新上
桌，偏aggressive的打法是＋EV。
原因是，在哥的认知范围内，正常情况下，对上新上桌的玩家，weaktight（低级别稳
定小赢玩家）和reg基本上都需要一个缓冲期去了解他的style。为了确保在没搞清楚状
况前不输大钱，他们基本上都会用普通的abc甚至偏weak的打法。这种情况下，往往出
现flat你的flop raise，甚至跟上一条街，一旦没有cheap showdown，往往在后两条街
放弃。这其实是很大的一块profit，这些人（或者说绝大多数人包括哥）往往在初期不
敢用非nuts来跟你commit。而从数学角度来讲，撞上对手nuts的可能性也很小。
但是，一旦这个新人的套路被识别出来（可能是经过... 阅读全帖 |
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d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 49 本来是好事，特别顺的赢了一个小mtt的冠军。另外几桌也进的比较深，可惜关键的几
个flip输掉了，只赢到点buffet钱。本来打算关机睡觉，可是还有一点点视频没看完，
于是开起2桌6max，打发时间。不想，没玩几把，bluff一个300bb的大锅，被一个reg死
对头拿着2nd pair接住。之后，另一桌一只donk连着小盲位3bet我4把，第四把我用ato
4bet overshove反推他100bb，他用kjo接下，顺利suckout，
此时，哥已经接近tilt的边缘，关掉视频，开启6桌，准备磨到这只donk被清，之后不
久，对上同一只donk，哥拿着qq open，在QJ22的turn上跟他get in 100bb，对手亮出
T2o,river comes the last 2.
这是压倒骆驼的最后一根稻草，之后，哥就无意识的开始spew，session结束的时候，
down了7个buying，把当天的mtt的winning全兜进去了，还输一个buyin。
又添了一笔血泪史，哎，以此警示其他玩家，打牌最重要的还是decipline |
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d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 50
7 buy in downswing是很正常的，但是被3bet了几次开始tilt，尤其是有position的情
况下，就很不应该了。从lz以前的帖子看，lz的技术应该是没有问题的，但是很可能
tournament和6max的dynamic不一样吧
其实感觉lz在“第四把我用ato 4bet overshove反推他100bb”的时候就tilt了。ATo面
对wide 3b range且有position的时候绝对是应该call的。其次4b bluff fold to 5b也
还可以。4b all-in是很大的一个leak。
感觉我认识的很多人仅仅把tilt看作是emotion的问题而不是技术的问题，这是不对的
。举个例子来说，如果我现在去打NL20，不管出现什么情况我都不太可能tilt，因为对
手的move基本都在意料之中。但是上周末打NL200打了没几手牌，在没有任何bad beat
的情况下，就觉得情绪有点失控，因为明显感觉对手在利用position exploit我，而我
没有很好的应对的办法。这种情况下一般我就换桌或者不打了。
即使桌上的reg skill edge不是很大，... 阅读全帖 |
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