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全部话题 - 话题: chargeable
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j*e
发帖数: 1987
1
来自主题: EB23版 - 简析五月VB新料
这段是奥本在5月VB里面添加的新料,以前没见过。"Since under INA Section 203(e)
such numbers must be provided strictly in priority date order regardless of
chargeability, greater number use by one country would indicate greater
demand by applicants from that country with earlier priority dates. Based
on amount and priority dates of pending demand and year-to-date number use,
a different cut-off date could be applied to each oversubscribed country,
for the purpose of assuring that the maximum amount of available number... 阅读全帖
e***1
发帖数: 28
2
Following are copied from May visa bulletin,
INA Section 202(a)(5) provides that if total demand in a calendar quarter
will be insufficient to use all available numbers in an Employment
preference, then the unused numbers may be made available without regard to
the annual per-country limits. Based on current levels of demand, there
will be otherwise unused numbers in the Employment First and Second
preferences. Such numbers may be allocated without regard to per-country
limits, once a country ... 阅读全帖
H**E
发帖数: 620
3
来自主题: EB23版 - 看来O傻真是有点变态啊
it's clearly explained here:
http://www.travel.state.gov/visa/bul...etin_5452.html
As mentioned in the May Visa Bulletin, Section 202(a)(5) of the Immigration
and Nationality Act (INA) prescribes rules for the use of potentially “
otherwise unused” Employment numbers. During May the India Employment
Second preference cut-off date is governing the use of such numbers, because
India had reached its Employment Second annual limit.
Since October there has been heavy demand by applicants "upgrading"... 阅读全帖
d******8
发帖数: 1972
4
老O说话越来越谨慎,也可以说从来不说实话。不知下月能不能继续前进,千万不要后
退,估计一个月之内不会增加太多,就想5月一样。
As mentioned in the May Visa Bulletin, Section 202(a)(5) of the Immigration
and Nationality Act (INA) prescribes rules for the use of potentially “
otherwise unused” Employment numbers. During May the India Employment
Second preference cut-off date is governing the use of such numbers, because
India had reached its Employment Second annual limit.
Since October there has been heavy demand by applicants "upgrading" their
status from E... 阅读全帖
d******8
发帖数: 1972
5
05/13/2011: State Department Employment-Based Visa Demand Statistics Used to
Determine June 2011 Visa Bulletin for EB Categories
Readers must have noticed that we highlighted in the yesterday's reporting
of the State Department predictions for the coming months. As noted in the
prediction, the EB-2 visa cut-off date for India will depend on the volume
of EB-2 visa numbers by Chinese and Indians, mostly Indians, between January
and March or later statistics of USCIS in its EB-485 inventory for EB... 阅读全帖
L***a
发帖数: 3674
6
gxgx
baozi plz
l*****g
发帖数: 153
7
请先回答问题
a******1
发帖数: 201
8
Ask your lawyer

visa
l*****g
发帖数: 153
9
回答问题的有包子
a******1
发帖数: 201
H******i
发帖数: 4704
11
Immigrant Visas Issued and Adjustments of Status Subject to Numerical
Limitations (by Foreign State Chargeability): Fiscal Year 2006-2010
t***f
发帖数: 13
12
来自主题: EB23版 - VB came out - nothing change for EB2
http://www.travel.state.gov/visa/bulletin/bulletin_5542.html
Employment- Based All Chargeability Areas Except Those Listed
CHINA- mainland born INDIA MEXICO PHILIPPINES
1st C C C C C
2nd C 15APR07 15APR07 C C
3rd 22NOV05 15JUL04 08JUL02 22NOV05 22NOV05
Other Workers 01AUG05 22APR03 01JUN02 01AUG05 01AUG05
4th C C C C C
Certain Religious Workers C C C C C
5th
Targeted Employment Areas/ Regional Centers and Pilot Programs C C C C C
j*e
发帖数: 1987
13
来自主题: EB23版 - Demand Data
你说的这个CIS officer Order Visa Number的事我确实也听说过,为此我专门做了一
些研究。发现了这个非常有用的链接
Adjudicator's Field Manual
http://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/AFM/HTML/AFM/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-1
这个USCIS批准485的officer看的操作规范。其中Chapter 23.5里面详细讲了这个问题http://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/AFM/HTML/AFM/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-8624/0-0-0-9232.html#0-0-0-433
见23.5的(b)(5) Procedure for Ordering a Visa Number from the Department of
State 摘抄于下。
其中讲到“The Department of State has guaranteed to USCIS that so long as
the current visa bulletin and any superse... 阅读全帖
c****r
发帖数: 969
14
来自主题: EB23版 - [合集] Demand Data
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
Helsinki (跑步然后桑拿) 于 (Wed Aug 17 15:07:11 2011, 美东) 提到:
既然最近能够递交的人其实很少,那么USCIS所处理的大多数应该是大潮之前递交的。
每个月的变化不就差不多是USCIS处理的申请案件数目了吗?
当然,有一些没有赶上大潮的最近补交了,有些EB3改EB2了。但是都是少数吧。
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
Jijiwai (八戒) 于 (Wed Aug 17 15:24:00 2011, 美东) 提到:
underestimate of pwmb.
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
Helsinki (跑步然后桑拿) 于 (Wed Aug 17 16:09:36 2011, 美东) 提到:
That means I also underestimated the number of cases USCIS has processed... 阅读全帖
d***e
发帖数: 331
15
Search "cross chargeability"
另外看女朋友出生地,不看是否公民
m********e
发帖数: 5088
16
来自主题: EB23版 - vb out
Employment- Based
All Chargeability Areas Except Those Listed
CHINA- mainland born INDIA MEXICO PHILIPPINES
1st C C C C C
2nd C 01JAN10 01JAN10 C C
3rd 22FEB06 01DEC04 15AUG02 22FEB06 22FEB06
Other Workers 22FEB06 22APR03 15AUG02 22FEB06 22FEB06
s**********s
发帖数: 43
17
来自主题: EB23版 - 家庭移民排到08JUN09
Family-Sponsored All Chargeability Areas Except Those Listed CHINA-
mainland born INDIA MEXICO PHILIPPINES
F1 22DEC04 22DEC04 22DEC04 22APR93 22MAY97
F2A 08JUN09 08JUN09 08JUN09 08MAY09 08JUN09
F2B 15OCT03 15OCT03 15OCT03 01DEC92 01NOV01
F3 01DEC01 01DEC01 01DEC01 01JAN93 22JUL92
F4 08SEP00 08SEP00 08SEP00 15MAY96 01NOV88
No, I mean permanent resident.
H******i
发帖数: 4704
18
来自主题: EB23版 - 回feishi站内信。
是USCIS数据弄错了,别人relink 2007年以前的PD, USCIS错误地用了新工作上面重新
申请PERM的新PD.
Q: Why were there pending cases listed with priority dates after August
2007 when the Visa Bulletin priority dates was never beyond August 2007?
A: We have reviewed the source data for the inventory and have determined
that a number of errors contributed to the appearance of cases with a 2008
or 2009 priority date in countries and preferences for which the priority
date has not advanced beyond 2007 in the DOS Visa Bulletin. First... 阅读全帖
H******i
发帖数: 4704
19
http://www.niunational.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=371&ext
奥本回信拒绝了我按照国别分配剩余名额的要求
我在去年就被奥本拒绝了。我给他的信无比长,又打比喻(用排队进游泳池做比喻),
又套关系,又威胁这么捆绑不公平将来有人要告他,就不公布了。下面是他的原信。
Allocation of “otherwise unused” number as they relate to your pool
example. INA Section 202(a)(5) provides that if total demand is
insufficient to use all available numbers in the Employment First and Second
preference, then the unused numbers may be made available without regard to
the annual per-country limits for a country which i... 阅读全帖
S*******r
发帖数: 11017
20
来自主题: EB23版 - HR3012 - Washington Post
你也太客气了
我要是说的不好 这5个包子受之有愧啊
抛个砖吧
中印捆绑的唯一法律依据是现行移民法里关于剩余名额分配的这一段:
INA: ACT 202 - NUMERICAL LIMITATION TO ANY SINGLE FOREIGN STATE
Sec. 202. [8 U.S.C. 1152]
(5) 2/ RULES FOR EMPLOYMENT-BASED IMMIGRANTS-
(A) EMPLOYMENT-BASED IMMIGRANTS NOT SUBJECT TO PER COUNTRY LIMITATION IF
ADDITIONAL VISAS AVAILABLE- If the total number of visas available under
paragraph (1), (2), (3), (4), or (5) of section 203(b) for a calendar
quarter exceeds the number of qualified immigrants who may otherwise be
issued such v... 阅读全帖
H******i
发帖数: 4704
21
spill over
http://www.niunational.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=371
╔═╤═╤═╤═╤═╤═╤═╤═╤═╤═╤═╤═╤═╤═╤═╤═╤═╤═╗
║从│但│ │!│配│额│求│度│之│他│,│上│的│为│ │i│里│因║
║我│是│ │ │剩│,│他│E│源│普│用│用│工│了│ │t│,│为║
║倒│N│ │ │余│而│按│B│,│及│详│私│作│配│ │b│本│三║
║下│I│ │ │名│不│国│为│他│I│细│人│,│合│ │b│贴│哥║
║的│U│ │ │额│是│别│己│不│C│的│名│我│N│ │s│请│经║
║地│专│ │ │。│按│分│任│必│C│历│义│于│I│ │。│不│常║
║方│项│ │ │遭│照│配│。│以│乃│史│致│星│U│ │ │要│出║
║,│组│ │ │到│P│剩│同│拯│是│知│信│期│专│ │ │转│没║
║拣│可│ │ │拒│D│余│时│救│万│识│奥│五│项│ │ │到│于║
║起│以│ │ │绝│分│名│要│印│恶│向│本│晚│组│ │ │m│那║
╚═╧═╧═╧═╧═╧... 阅读全帖
a***n
发帖数: 665
22
No, they're from Inida based on their records.
here're my filter when searching trackitt:
country of birth: India
country of chargeability: India
status: Approved
category: EB-2
all other settings: ALL
H******7
发帖数: 34403
23
来自主题: EB23版 - 绿印印PD1/25/2008
I-485 case: Approved in 55 days (601 days less than average) (Report this
case)
User: kryolife Nationality: India
Country of Chargeability: India Applicant Type: primary
Service Center: Nebraska Category: EB2
Priority Date: 25 Jan 2008 Application Filed: 13 Dec 2011
USCIS Received Date: 14 Dec 2011 USCIS Notice Date: 15 Dec 2011
USCIS Receipt Number: LIN-12901XXXXX I-140/485 Filing: non-
concurrent
I-140 Processing Type: ... 阅读全帖
H******i
发帖数: 4704
24
我在去年就被奥本拒绝了。下面是他的原信。我给他的信无比长,又打比喻(用排队进游泳池做比喻),又套关系,又威胁这么捆绑不公平将来有人要告他,就不公布了。
http://www.niunational.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=371&ext
奥本回信拒绝了我按照国别分配剩余名额的要求
Allocation of “otherwise unused” number as they relate to your pool example. INA Section 202(a)(5) provides that if total demand is insufficient to use all available numbers in the Employment First and Second preference, then the unused numbers may be made available without regard to the annual per-country limits for a country which is... 阅读全帖
x*********o
发帖数: 120
25
来自主题: EB23版 - EB3转EB2 完全攻略
说说我的情况:
EB3 :
PD: 3/2006
RD: 8/2007
EB2 140: 10/2011
SR 做了好几个
1/26/2012 & 2/2/2012 议员办公室联系USCIS.
485: 2/13/2012
由于公司的律师原因,给整成了EB3,后来换了公司从新弄了一个EB2.140批了,PD是老的
PD,然后撇开公司的律师自己INTEFILE,做SR,联系议员.
1. EB2 OR EB3:
EB2 = BS + 5(+) YRS OR MS + 0 (+) YRS
EB3 = OTHERS
2. 140 批了,就可以KEEP PD了.最后拿到140的COPY再跳.
说说EB3 -> EB2
从EB2的PERM批了开始,
EB2的PERM 批了之后,可以加急办EB2140.在申请140的时候,附上EB3 140,最好还写一封
INTERFILE (要求PORT PD, 参考下面).
EB2 140批了以后,拿到140 COPY件后, 即使上面有老的PD, 自己一定要再给USCIS发一
个INTERFILE MAIL. 里面包... 阅读全帖
x*********o
发帖数: 120
26
来自主题: EB23版 - EB3转EB2 完全攻略
说说我的情况:
EB3 :
PD: 3/2006
RD: 8/2007
EB2 140: 10/2011
SR 做了好几个
1/26/2012 & 2/2/2012 议员办公室联系USCIS.
485: 2/13/2012
由于公司的律师原因,给整成了EB3,后来换了公司从新弄了一个EB2.140批了,PD是老的
PD,然后撇开公司的律师自己INTEFILE,做SR,联系议员.
1. EB2 OR EB3:
EB2 = BS + 5(+) YRS OR MS + 0 (+) YRS
EB3 = OTHERS
2. 140 批了,就可以KEEP PD了.最后拿到140的COPY再跳.
说说EB3 -> EB2
从EB2的PERM批了开始,
EB2的PERM 批了之后,可以加急办EB2140.在申请140的时候,附上EB3 140,最好还写一封
INTERFILE (要求PORT PD, 参考下面).
EB2 140批了以后,拿到140 COPY件后, 即使上面有老的PD, 自己一定要再给USCIS发一
个INTERFILE MAIL. 里面包... 阅读全帖
l********g
发帖数: 656
27
来自主题: EB23版 - 排期出来了, 未动
Employment- Based
All Chargeability Areas Except Those Listed
CHINA- mainland born INDIA MEXICO PHILIPPINES
1st C C C C C
2nd C 01MAY10 01MAY10 C C
3rd 08APR06 01MAR05 01SEP02 08APR06 08APR06
Other Workers 08APR06 22APR03 01SEP02 08APR06 08APR06
4th C C C C C
E****H
发帖数: 913
28
四月没有动。
Employment- Based
All Chargeability Areas Except Those Listed CHINA- mainland born INDIA
MEXICO PHILIPPINES
1st C C C C C
2nd C 01MAY10 01MAY10 C C
3rd 08APR06 01MAR05 01SEP02 08APR06 08APR06
l****n
发帖数: 3081
29
来自主题: EB23版 - 还有多少名额可分
这个太不准了,放水了可能去注册的人就更多。
你选:
Country of Chargeability:India
I-485 Status:Approved
Category: EB2
RD到10/2011是19页,到10/2010是23页。
还是别的大牛扫号靠谱些!
N****g
发帖数: 2829
30
当然只看EB-ROW的。FB所有类别所有国家都有排期,哪来SO?
Go to每年的Table V. Immigrant Visas Issued and Adjustments of Status Subject
to Numerical Limitations (by Foreign State Chargeability),
然后可以用以下公司大致计算 EB-2C+ EB-2I - 2803 X 2 = SO from EB-2 ROW
d*******7
发帖数: 188
31
来自主题: EB23版 - PD可不可以这么用?
没有人知道吗?我也是比较好奇而已。不是有所谓的chargeability吗?主申请人可以
用副申请人国家的quota (不同国家),难道同一个就不可以吗?
d*******7
发帖数: 188
32
来自主题: EB23版 - PD可不可以这么用?
没人回,自己顶
Cross chargeability is an exception to the general rule that allows the visa
number for a principal applicant to be charged to the country of birth of
the accompanying spouse. This might happen when a visa will be available
sooner to an applicant from the spouse’s country of birth than from the
principal applicant’s country of birth.
怎么都没有意见啊?
s*******e
发帖数: 3042
33
来自主题: EB23版 - PD可不可以这么用?
Unfortunately you can't. Just do some google search and you find the answer.
When talking about chargeability it always refer to the 'charge against a
country'
f**u
发帖数: 2769
34
http://www.travel.state.gov/visa/statistics/statistics_5240.htm
里面的 V. Immigrant Visas Issued and Adjustments of Status Subject to
Numerical Limitations (by Foreign State Chargeability): Fiscal Year 2010
Part 1 (Family Preferences)
Part 2 (Employment First through Fourth)
Part 3 (Employment Fifth and Totals, Grand Totals)
这个是不是就是你要的按国别、EB1-5类别的详细数据?
p**y
发帖数: 53
35
If no spillover (as not expected) for this visa year and we use our own
quota (2,802) only, then the cutoff date would be around June 1st, at
farthest in my opinion:
Green Card Tracker based on Official USCIS I-485 Data
http://immigrationroad.com/green-card-tracker.php
Chargeability: China
EB Preference: EB2
Priority Date: May 31, 2012

Results: As of 2012-05-03, there are still 2364 China EB-2 applicants
waiting ahead of you for a green card. It means that a total of 2364 pendin... 阅读全帖
r********n
发帖数: 300
36
来自主题: EB23版 - relink when EB3 upgrade to EB2
My EB3 priority date is 04/24/2006 which is still current based on May
bulletin after porting it my approved EB-2 I-140. I think I should be approved if USCIS follow the game rule.
But I do not believe they will be nice to me. F..K USCIS.
called 800 number twice. First time was lucky. 1st level transferred to 2nd
level, and then created a service request for me. 2nd time unlucky, the man
voice was very cold, and asked my employer to contact them. So hang up.
Send an email to EBupdate.tsc, got th... 阅读全帖
s***g
发帖数: 299
37
我跟我老公的EB2, 老公是附申请人,我是主申请人
信是写个律师的。但是我的EB2没有用律师。律师至少帮我申请了140
信上说
NVC returned the petition to USCIS. Please direct any further inquiries to
USCIS
下面列出来一个GUZ开始的case #, 在uscis网站查不到
还有priority date, 我的姓名,信息都是我的
后面还有
foreign state chargeablity: china mainlad
U.S. embassy: GUANGZHOU (???????????跟广州有什么关系,我的 EB2?)
牛人给解惑一下啊,我的 EB2是邮寄到TSC的啊
C********e
发帖数: 841
38
赶紧找个cross chargeability闪婚 的啊 双方互利 还在这掏光养晦 干嘛啊 快 现在
就是个毛里求斯的出生证都比天朝高一等 连帕劳都可以随便杀大陆群众
H******i
发帖数: 4704
39
来自主题: EB23版 - H.R.3012项目暂时告一段落
新同学可以研究一下奥本是如何拒绝我要求他在分配剩余名额的时候按照国别而不是按
照PD,从而实现中印松绑。如果大家能够从条文上找到突破点,我还可以替大家跟他交
涉。他清楚知道如果他在条文上站不住脚,我就会找到比他级别告得多的官员投诉他。
下面是他拒绝我的原文。
Allocation of “otherwise unused” number as they relate to your pool
example. INA Section 202(a)(5) provides that if total demand is
insufficient to use all available numbers in the Employment First and Second
preference, then the unused numbers may be made available without regard to
the annual per-country limits for a country which is considered to be “
oversubscrib... 阅读全帖
g*********m
发帖数: 434
40
来自主题: EB23版 - 收到EAD/AP,发小包子。
收到EAD/AP,先发6个包子,求祝福。
EB2-NIW
Service Center: TSC
Concurrent File:I140, I485
Priority Date: 05/04/2012(Cross Chargeability)
Receipt date: 05/04/2012
FP Notice Date:05/30/2012
FP Appointment Date:06/20/2012
EAD Approval Notice Date:06/01/2012
EAD/AP Combo Card Received Date:06/06/2012
请教:副申请人H1B,如果用EAD做另外做part-time的话,H1B的status是否就没有了?
别的工作用了EAD,要通知本来的公司改用EAD吗? BTW,I140还没批,这么做冒险吗,还是
等140批了再用EAD保险些?假如被拒,是否只能离开美国,签H4回来?谢谢。
l**7
发帖数: 3940
41
来自主题: EB23版 - 收到EAD/AP,发小包子。
read carefully , it s EB2-CROSS CHARGEABILITY TO ROW
f***c
发帖数: 338
42
http://www.travel.state.gov/visa/bulletin/bulletin_5733.html
ROW's cutoff date: 01JAN09.!!!
Employment- Based All Chargeability Areas Except Those Listed
CHINA- mainland born INDIA MEXICO PHILIPPINES
1st C C C C C
2nd 01JAN09 U U 01JAN09 01JAN09
3rd 22JUL06 22SEP05 22SEP02 22JUL06 08JUN06
I**n
发帖数: 839
43
来自主题: EB23版 - eb3, June 2006
EB3, PD June 2006
Submitted in 2007 flood
Just got this message moments ago, is it real?
Updated: Another message after 1 1/2 hour
Wife is ROW. Called for Chargeability once but was told I am not eligible.
Maybe it went through anyway?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Application Type: I485 , APPLICATION TO REGISTER PERMANENT RESIDENCE OR TO
ADJUST STATUS
Your Case Status: Card/ Document Production
On July 5, 2012, we ordered production of your new card. Please allow 30
days for your card to be maile... 阅读全帖
I**n
发帖数: 839
44
来自主题: EB23版 - eb3, June 2006
Wife is ROW. Called for Chargeability once but was told I am not eligible.
Maybe it went through anyway?
s********n
发帖数: 455
45
来自主题: EB23版 - bad news from Murthy Law
http://www.murthy.com/2012/07/06/cutoff-date-expectations-and-e
Cutoff Date Expectations and Explanations: EB2 Retrogression
July 6, 2012
The U.S. Department of State (DOS) has provided detailed predictions and
explanations regarding the movement of priority dates in fiscal year 2013 (
FY13), which occurs from October 1, 2012 through September 30, 2013. The
employment-based, second preference (EB2) category for India and China faces
protracted retrogression. While the EB2 category will no longer... 阅读全帖
x*****u
发帖数: 776
46
你倒不是大陆人,看你的id "chargeability"就知道你是什么货色。你都沾了row光了
,还跑来这干什么?说话干净点,不要侮辱别人!
m***i
发帖数: 177
47
看潜在有什么意义呀,它只是个POOL,而且每个月都有变化,看实批才能看出它的作用
。你去看DOS每月颁布的正式的VB,前面都有这样的说明
http://www.travel.state.gov/visa/bulletin/bulletin_5759.html
2. The fiscal year 2012 limit for family-sponsored preference immigrants
determined in accordance with Section 201 of the Immigration and Nationality
Act (INA) is 226,000. The fiscal year 2012 limit for employment-based
preference immigrants calculated under INA 201 is 144,951. Section 202
prescribes that the per-country limit for preference immigrants is set at 7%
... 阅读全帖
N****g
发帖数: 2829
48
看潜在不是有没有意义,而是DOS就是这么做的。从你自己贴的里面摘两句好好再读读
“when visa demand exceeds the per-country limit”,什么叫demand?Demand难道
是实批不是潜在吗?“oversubscribed chargeability areas”,什么叫subscribe?
是潜在还是实批?
DOS要在实批前两个月就公布排期,10月的实批,排期9月初就定了,9月初定排期的时
候他怎么可能知道10月有多少实批?完全就是凭估计,看潜在。如果照你说的要看实批
是否超7%,那10月新财年一开始,所有国家都没超,所有国家所有类别都应该All C?
Anyway,你反正也承认“中印墨菲不在此类(ROW),所以得单有排期。”,这不就结了。
你后面一大套自己杜撰的排期阴谋论,也只能给不懂的人看看。真正了解名额分配规则
的人也就笑笑看看了之,我也懒的跟你多解释。

Nationality
7%
limits
419.
c***k
发帖数: 387
49
Employment- Based
All Chargeability Areas Except Those Listed
CHINA- mainland born INDIA MEXICO PHILIPPINES
1st C C C C C
2nd 01JAN12 15JUL07 01SEP04 01JAN12 01JAN12
3rd 22OCT06 08FEB06 15OCT02 22OCT06 01AUG06
Other Workers 22OCT06 22JUN03 15OCT02 22OCT06 01AUG06
f**u
发帖数: 2769
50
来自主题: EB23版 - EB3C有可能追上EB2C吗?
比的都是同一个国家(chargeability),否则就没意义了。
这样说的话,其实上一财年底EB2已经落后于EB3了,因为EB2是U,EB3起码有名额。
再过几个月,EB3C及EB3ROW的demand用光,排期会超过07大潮,之后可能会快速前进一
段时间。这段时间内EB3C可能又会暂时超过EB2C。
但是这样比其实也没意义。以前nyssgg说过的,排期有“真”“假”之分。如果只拿真
的和真的比,假的和假的比,总的来说EB3C还会在一段时间内落后于EB2C。
关于排期,NIU对2004年以来的数据做了总结。具体见表:
http://data.niunational.org/cutoffdates
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