L****n
发帖数: 12932 | 1 sorry, i disagree strongly. Not only i think she need surgery, she need it
quite urgently.
觉得这个病人首先的differential dx应该是symptomatic carotid sternosis which
is extactly what carotid endarteractomy is for， 其次，再怎么铁血， 沸腾，
药物治疗都没有手术那么definitive的, a symptomatic may not have time to wait
for medical treatment to take effect。 再三， i think it's ok to talk
inbetween ourselves with liberal choice of words, but be prudent when
talking to people coming here asking question about a patient.
for reference, from A... 阅读全帖 |
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A*******s
发帖数: 9638 | 2 again，we are talking about symptomatic and asymptomatic stenosis. For
asymptomatic carotid stenosis, although some data support surgery over drug,
the benefit is small and depend on life expectancy and surgical skills.
For this patient, her syncope is not caused by carotid stenosis. I always
question cardiology why order carotid u/s for syncope? Vascular surgeon may
say, r/o bilateral carotid stenosis, give me a break.
Asymptomatic carotid stenosis for CEA is controversial. The problem is th... 阅读全帖 |
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A*******s
发帖数: 9638 | 3 First of all, medicine is the science.
1. Unilateral carotid stenosis is not the cause of Syncope. People with
unilateral lobectomy are fully awake.
2. Asymptomatic carotid stenosis does not necessorily need surgical
intervention. I have seen patients with bilateral carotid occlusion without
any stroke or TIA.
Second, medicine is also the art.
When physicians order some nonsense tests and incidentally find some
abnormalities, it takes time for explanations. In her case, I'll tell her
what I hav... 阅读全帖 |
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A*******s
发帖数: 9638 | 4 我的病人除非有症状我才做carotid U/S， 如果over 70%, refer to surgeon。 这些
病人是symptomatic。
如果是syncope， 我从来不做carotid u/s。 因为将近90%是vasovagal 和
cardiogenic。 剩下的还要考虑orthostasis和seizure。 如果是TIA， 应该是基底动
脉的问题， carotid u/s不如MRA。
可恶的美国医疗体系是你order的test越多赚的钱就越多， 所以就有了过分的order
carotid， 一旦发现了超过70的stenosis， 就把他们refer到surgeon。 surgeon当然
求之不得， 可能是手术容易做， reimbursement高， 这些surgeon一看到我就提醒我
有没有case， 竞争不是一般的激烈。 可以想象他们的门槛会多低。
carotid stenosis并不见得一定是artery-to-artery amboli， 它的存在可能导致供血
不足， 而引起远端动脉的thrombosis。 所以清除plague只是改善血供， 不见得可以
消... 阅读全帖 |
|
A*******s
发帖数: 9638 | 5 我不明白为什么大家都把syncope当stroke？ 去年神经科5大不可以就包括syncope不要
做carotid dopplar。 道理很简单，神志的改变必须是两侧大脑半球都有问题，TIA/
CVA却往往是一侧。
Subclavian steal syndrome应该是比较容易诊断的，但有多少医生测量双臂的血压？
所以这个病应该是underdiagnosed。 今天一个cardiologist看到这个case时感叹，我们
平时有多少syncope，有几个想到subclavian steal的？
这个病历我引以为骄傲的是我没有相信2个月前的医院carotid dopplar， 而是把一个
星期后她在诊所做的翻了出来。 报告中提到了右侧基底动脉的逆向flow，放射科医生
居然一带而过，没有提一下可能的鉴别诊断。 所以大多数医生都认为carotid就是看颈
动脉狭窄而已。 我因为认定这个病人的神志改变与carotid无关，所以特别关注了基底
动脉，终于功夫不负有心人。 |
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y*****g
发帖数: 193 | 6 possible carotid artery stenosis? check dupler study of carotid.
If hypotension is present, low blood pressure with narrowed cerebral vessels
or narrowed carotid artereis possibly leads to hypoperfussion for her brain
. There is a medication which can increase blood pressure if needed. Also
eating salty food could also increase blood pressure.
Is she anemia? and why does she have hypotension at the first place? |
|
y*****g
发帖数: 193 | 7 possible carotid artery stenosis? check dupler study of carotid.
If hypotension is present, low blood pressure with narrowed cerebral vessels
or narrowed carotid artereis possibly leads to hypoperfussion for her brain
. There is a medication which can increase blood pressure if needed. Also
eating salty food could also increase blood pressure.
Is she anemia? and why does she have hypotension at the first place? |
|
M********r
发帖数: 179 | 8 由于都是有图的题目，发不了附件。所以只好把下载链接留在这里，供大家讨论及解答
，先行谢过！
http://freemedicalbooks.webs.com/nbme.htm
Block 4 q23:
it showed a ventilatory response to decreasing levels of inspired oxygen
concentration. asked how the curve will change after removal of carotid body.
I think the carotid body is responsible for peripheral low O2 NOT
responsible for central input. therefore, if you cut the carotid body, the
peripheral input would be disappeared but after a period time delay the
central input(accumulation of CO2) ... 阅读全帖 |
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R****0
发帖数: 138 | 9 NBME5 Block 4 q23
Both carotid body and aortic body are mainly responsible for peripheral low
O2 NOT sensitive to high O2. The inspired O2 and ventilation curve is steep
at low O2 concentration and becomes flat at high O2. When the bilateral
carotid bodies are removed, only no signals from carotid bodies are sent to
central respiratory center, the slightly reduced, but not totally diminished
, O2-ventilation response is observed in answer E. |
|
A*******s
发帖数: 9638 | 10 I had a patient who has asymptomatic carotid stenosis. He had a CEA and
ended up with a complete carotid occlusion and a large infarct.
carotid
his |
|
A*******s
发帖数: 9638 | 11 Surgery/stenting for asymptomatic carotid artery stenosis over 70% is still
controversial.
The key is what caused syncope?
Left carotid artery stenosis usually is not the cause of syncope. Basilar
artery stenosis, however, could induce brain stem ischemia and cause vertigo
and syncope. I did not see basilar artery flow direction on the U/S. If retrograde, a
subclavian steal could cause the syncope.
So you may fix the carotid artery stenosis but not the syncope. The patient
has to be informed pri... 阅读全帖 |
|
L****n
发帖数: 12932 | 12 not mean to doubt your expertise, physicians don't put themselves directly
against literature without evidences. I think in this patient "symptomatic
carotid sternosis" is a more logical explanation than a "innocent" carotid
sternosis with "syncopy" of unknown source. Basic rule is first try to
explain everything with one disease.
you can go hunt for other cause of "syncopy", but if nothing being done
about the carotid stenosis at the meanwhile, and the patient develop stroke
and die, u coul... 阅读全帖 |
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A*******s
发帖数: 9638 | 13 今天早上一睁眼，天已经亮了，翻身看了一下闹钟，8点，还觉得困不想起，这两天过
节过的，根本睡不够。 突然想起今天加了几个病人，8：30就来了，只能挣扎着爬起来
，迅速冲了个热水澡，觉得神志清醒了不少，胡乱吃了点东西，一路绿灯到了诊所，病
人早在那里等待了。
一口气看了几个早到的病人，心情愉快了很多。 每次休假后总觉得很压抑，休息了几
天又要上班真痛苦，可每当真正开始上班了以后，早上起床时的悲怆心情就烟消云散了
：与病人的互相问候， 疾病的正确诊断，以及病人痛苦的解除，实实在在地带给我好
的情绪， 相信大家都有类似的感觉。
有一个病人没有来，于是掏出手机， 看到medicalprac讥笑我把single写成singer，不
由笑起来了，改正了一个，好对得起他老人家的一片苦心。 看到Linsanity一如既往的
拥抱single payer，突然恻隐之心大动，与其跟他争论，不如让他好好发挥，希望
obama/pelosi能够看到听到，不辜负他的一片痴情和坚贞。
病人John是一个50岁的白人，因为剧烈的牙疼被家庭医生诊断为三叉神经痛，给了
Tegretol治疗，有一点效果，但疼痛还在，所以... 阅读全帖 |
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A*******s
发帖数: 9638 | 14 我觉得你首先得明确你究竟喜欢什么？ 喜欢动手可以做的科多了去了，不是你选择专
业的主要依据。
cardiology和radiology都可以做carotid stenting， 你知道他们的区别吗？前者的病
人是他们自己的，后者需要其他医生给refer。 所以目前很少听说有radiology做
carotid stenting，这就是细节决定结果。
喜欢跟病人直接打交道就做cardiology，反之radiology比较适合你。 至于打不打架这
种事就超出你考虑到范围了。 如果在Private practice，作为radiologist你恐怕一辈
子都做不上carotid stenting，但在kaiser这样的机构，你恐怕会忙不过来。 |
|
B*V
发帖数: 3365 | 15 什么是老将，这就是老将 之 三十二
在美国做过饭的都知道美国的猪肉用水一煮，血泡沫拉拉的。。。
但是这不影响有些人为md辩护，客观请看：(后面有"5毛"网友对此的批驳)
发信人: lopt (好好学习天天向上), 信区: Military
标 题: 所谓美国杀猪不放血也是胡说八道
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Sep 18 02:58:18 2011, 美东)
这个用脚后跟想想也不对啊，不放血的肉能吃吗？不知道最早是那个五毛造的谣言，结
果成了被各路老中广泛接受的“事实”了。
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_slaughter
Before slaughter, pigs are first rendered unconscious using one of the
following means: stunning using electric current applied with electrodes, or
stunning using captive bolt pistol, or inhalation of CO2. They... 阅读全帖 |
|
D***0
发帖数: 5214 | 16 已知伤亡列表 http://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2014/takata-airbag-deaths-and-injuries.shtml
Charlene Weaver of Arizona / 2004 Subaru Impreza / Fatal
November 1, 2003: Charlene Weaver was a passenger in a 2004 Subaru Impreza
when she was killed in an alleged Takata airbag-related accident. That car
was not recalled until July of 2014.
Ashley Parham of Midwest City, Oklahoma / 2001 Honda Accord / Fatal
May 27, 2009: Ashley Parham was killed while driving a 2001 Honda Accord in
a parking lot. The Accord ... 阅读全帖 |
|
f******I
发帖数: 769 | 17
when
most
which side is the carotid stenosis on? in addition to blood pressure control
, asa, also check her cholesterol profile and might need to add a statin if
her cholesterol is high,
signs of stroke would be like weakness, numbness on the opposite of her body
from the carotid stenosis, slurred speech and such,
hang in there, take good care, |
|
d*******n
发帖数: 1 | 18 很长一段时间（一年多）一直觉得嘴里发甜。血糖等各项指标一直正常。家庭医生推荐
了耳鼻喉科医生，医生建议做个脑部的MRI.做完后医生看过了报告后说脑部没什么异常
。 不知道有没有必要再找脑神经科的医生看一下？ 报告如下。小时侯得过鼻窦炎，出
国后就没什么症状了。平时有时候会有头疼，主要集中在脑门部位。喝杯咖啡，或者睡
一觉就没事了。
谢谢
Technique Used: .
MRI of the Brain Without & With Contrast: Axial DWI, sagittal T1, Sag 3D
FLAIR, axial SWI, Axial
T2 and FLAIR; Following an injection of 8.5ml Optimark: Coronal T2 and
Sagittal 3D T1 MPRAGE.
Reformat: axial, coronal, and sagittal T1 post contrast.
Symptoms: .
Altered taste described as sweet.
Body: .
MRI of the... 阅读全帖 |
|
a**e
发帖数: 5094 | 19 asymptomatic carotid stenosis> exercise, dietary control, target LDL<100, if
not working, then go for statins
symptomatic carotid stenosis> aspirin + statins
I won't waste my money for those products never have been proved to be
effective. |
|
o********e
发帖数: 609 | 20 点穴要是管用，规则也是允许的啊。可是不能说，你别动，让我来点。
其实人身上有很多已知的神经反射都会有类似，或者更加强烈的效果。比如说
The dilated portion of the common carotid artery at its bifurcation into
external and internal carotids. It contains baroreceptors which, when
stimulated, cause slowing of the heart, vasodilatation, and a fall in blood
pressure.
，不是
得不得法，结果越揉越糟。 |
|
R*****s
发帖数: 41236 | 21 ☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
Jason (JRider) 于 (Wed Mar 26 13:33:30 2014, 美东) 提到:
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000142405270230394970457
"'I will run it off'—that attitude clearly prevails among the marathoners
themselves, almost sometimes to an arrogance," said Paul Thompson, a veteran
marathoner who is chief of cardiology at Hartford Hospital.
A growing body of research shows the error of that thinking. A study
published in the current edition of Missouri Medicine found... 阅读全帖 |
|
U******u
发帖数: 5829 | 22 shyj: 我的考版match路--以此文纪念在美国逝去的10年青春
http://mitbbs.com/pc/pccon_2289_t379_150975.html
发信人: shyj (baobao), 信区: MedicalCareer
标 题: 我的考版match路-以此文纪念在美国逝去的10年青春 (很长很罗嗦，慎入！）
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sat Apr 3 17:31:55 2010, 美东)
Match的结果终于尘埃落定，周1等电邮的时候非常紧张，因为成败就在此了，虽然一直
告诉自己，今年只是热热身，成败都可以接受，但到真的揭晓的时候，还是很紧张，毕
竟一旦卷入其中就身不由己，何况自己也还是有所付出。到周4等match program的时候
虽然也有点紧张，但程度已经大大减少，1个原因是毕竟match上才是头等大事，去哪里
尚在其次，还有1个原因是心理还是有所准备了，虽然希望留在home school，但直觉告
诉我恐怕是非常困难了，在我rank list上第二位的program应该就是我要去的地方，果
不其然。经过几天的等待，发现果然是要搬家了。
对于我... 阅读全帖 |
|
p******6
发帖数: 410 | 23 麦地的病理军团好沉默呀，我来转个usmleforum上目前的IVs list.反正我是目前一个
都没有，心情一个劲的往下沉。
IV list:
Henry Ford,: Carotid,amfas,yamma,needapartner,egyptwithin
albert einstein,NY :algernon,lemonhh
St John Medical center:amfas
case university hospital :aprilmay,mdia,lemonhh
UTSW:pathopatho, mdphd
ETSU, TN: amfas
UCSD:aprilmay,lemonhh
Methodist hospital,houston : amfas
Univ of Florida,Gainsvilles: amfas
Univ of Wisconsin-Madison: aprilmay
U Tenn Memphis:amfas,peace4all
Tulane University: aprilmay,carotid
Univ of south florida: |
|
x***m
发帖数: 140 | 24 Congratulations to TOP6
1 carotid 17
2 algernon 12
3 aprilmay 12
4 amfas 9
5 egyptwithin6
6 pollux 6
Carotid- 99/97/pass/ graduated end of 2007, no publication.no step3,no visa
needed.
algernon- 99/99/pass/99 2003 grad, need H1 if green card appl doesn't go
through in time. I've been in US since 2005 doing research. I have a dozen
papers. I'm applying to univ programs only.
Aprilmay- 99 (>260)/99/passed CS at second attempt, GC, 2002, US PhD but
very few publications. I haven't taken Step 3 yet. |
|
s******t
发帖数: 579 | 25 多谢sprinestep的回答！让咱感动的（此处省去4个字）！
八成是那个转换不到位的情况。心包填塞，我得留心一点。如果病人太胖，会使声音减
轻一点吧？
我的听诊器是去年6月准备CS时买的littleman cardiology III，应该不会就老化了吧
？你的听诊器，咱很想要，牛人的东西谁都想收藏，但是怕挨你那个同学的骂，就算了
吧:)
还有个问题，我听到的carotid bruits是收缩期吹风状的杂音，duplex也证实有狭窄，
但这声音很象AS的杂音，怎样鉴别是carotid bruits，是放射来的杂音，还是两者都有？ |
|
s********p
发帖数: 1319 | 26 水晶好认真——听诊比我仔细得多！
主动脉瓣狭窄（AS）向颈部传导，我们的注意力，应该多放在胸骨右缘第二肋间，在心
脏听诊方面，那里的杂音和心音的改变比较明显（详细情况见图，说明）。这是和单纯
动脉粥样硬化（Arthroscleroses, AS）所致颈动脉狭窄所导致的Carotid bruits收缩
期杂音的主要鉴别要点。
单纯动脉粥样硬化（Arthroscleroses, AS）所致颈动脉狭窄时，听到carotid bruits
收缩期吹风样杂音的时候，心脏本身的杂音和心音变化并不明显。此时，“Duplex
ultrasound imaging provides a direct, noninvasive means of assessing both
the anatomical characteristics of peripheral arteries and the functional
significance of arterial stenoses.”
此外，颈部听诊时还有个连续的静脉杂音，见图2。
不知道说清楚没有？
等我Step 12 考完后，一同和XDJM们探讨些... 阅读全帖 |
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h****6
发帖数: 41 | 27 I practiced this TIA case in UW, but no matter what I did, the vascular
surgeon would not accept the patient for carotid endarterectomy.
According to the case explanation, this patient needs carotid endarterectomy
though.
Does anyone know the correct way of managing this case? Case 14 in UW |
|
s**********8
发帖数: 25265 | 28 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balloon_angioplasty
Angioplasty
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Redirected from Balloon angioplasty)
Jump to: navigation, search
Angioplasty
Intervention
Balloon angioplasty.
ICD-9-CM 00.6, 36.0 39.50
MeSH D017130
Angioplasty is the technique of mechanically widening a narrowed or
obstructed blood vessel, typically as a result of atherosclerosis. An empty
and collapsed balloon on a guide wire, known as a balloon catheter, is
passed into the narrowed locations... 阅读全帖 |
|
I****a
发帖数: 407 | 29 This past Saturday with help from my volleyball teammates, we successfully
resuscitate a person with most likely a cardiac arrest on the court.
A mid age man who all of sudden collapsed on the court after playing for 2
hrs w/o any prodrome. I rushed by his side noticing him unresponsive, there
was no limb movement, his eyes were closed, there was no pulse at carotid. I
immediately gave him a chest thump and started CPR. In the mean while, my
teammates started secure his airway and started callin... 阅读全帖 |
|
I****a
发帖数: 407 | 30 This past Saturday with help from my volleyball teammates, we successfully
resuscitate a person with most likely a cardiac arrest on the court.
A mid age man who all of sudden collapsed on the court after playing for 2
hrs w/o any prodrome. I rushed by his side noticing him unresponsive, there
was no limb movement, his eyes were closed, there was no pulse at carotid. I
immediately gave him a chest thump and started CPR. In the mean while, my
teammates started secure his airway and started callin... 阅读全帖 |
|
L****n
发帖数: 12932 | 31 闲话少说， i believe in evidence based medicine. I've shown reference to the
possibility of TIA presents as loss of consciousness, as well as study that
better long term outcome of CEA compare to conservative treatment in a
severely stenosed carotid artery (even if 1% better is 1% better), i have
yet to see any reference point the other way. Can you provide reference
support your argument pertain to:
1) this patient's loss of consciousness CAN'T POSSIBLY result from carotid
stenosis? this patient ac... 阅读全帖 |
|
A*******s
发帖数: 9638 | 32 1. Impossible.
2. Never said superior。 There were 3 clinical trials on asymptomatic
carotid stenosis, VACS, ACAS, ACST. The VACS included TIA so is not really
asymptomatic.
The data was pooled and the conclusion is: if surgical risk can be lower
than 3%, the benefit is about 1%/a year. You have to live long enough to see
real benefits.
From Neurology, feb 2012, in press:
It is important to emphasize that selection of asymptomatic patients for
carotid revascularization should include careful co... 阅读全帖 |
|
k********n
发帖数: 756 | 33 What you mean is transcranial doppler (TCD) instead carotid doppler you
mentioned?
Carotid doppler can only detect the basilar artery in newborns.
flow |
|
k********n
发帖数: 756 | 34 What you mean is transcranial doppler (TCD) instead carotid doppler you
mentioned?
Carotid doppler can only detect the basilar artery in newborns.
flow |
|
g*****d
发帖数: 991 | 35 Answer is NO.
If patient is fit for both carotid endarterectomy(CEA) and stenting, go for
CEA, which is the standard care. Usually we do carotid artery stent is for
the patient having high risk for CEA. |
|
s*********8
发帖数: 1630 | 36 Carotid endarterectomy is a common procedure and standard treatment for
severe carotid stenosis and stroke for more than 50 years. In a experienced
surgeon hands, the complications including stroke is less than 2%. Recently
ballon angioplasty and stent also used, but long term outcome is uncertain. |
|
l**t
发帖数: 6971 | 37 这个用脚后跟想想也不对啊，不放血的肉能吃吗？不知道最早是那个五毛造的谣言，结
果成了被各路老中广泛接受的“事实”了。
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_slaughter
Before slaughter, pigs are first rendered unconscious using one of the
following means: stunning using electric current applied with electrodes, or
stunning using captive bolt pistol, or inhalation of CO2. They are then
hoisted on a rail, after which they are exsanguinated, usually via the
carotid artery and the jugular vein. After the blood is gone, the carcass is
drenched in hot water in a dev... 阅读全帖 |
|
E*V
发帖数: 17544 | 38 在美国做过饭的都知道美国的猪肉用水一煮，血泡沫拉拉的。。。
但是这不影响有些人为md辩护，客观请看：(后面有"5毛"网友对此的批驳)
发信人: lopt (好好学习天天向上), 信区: Military
标 题: 所谓美国杀猪不放血也是胡说八道
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Sep 18 02:58:18 2011, 美东)
这个用脚后跟想想也不对啊，不放血的肉能吃吗？不知道最早是那个五毛造的谣言，结
果成了被各路老中广泛接受的“事实”了。
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_slaughter
Before slaughter, pigs are first rendered unconscious using one of the
following means: stunning using electric current applied with electrodes, or
stunning using captive bolt pistol, or inhalation of CO2. They are then
hoisted ... 阅读全帖 |
|
B*V
发帖数: 3365 | 39 在美国做过饭的都知道美国的猪肉用水一煮，血泡沫拉拉的。。。
但是这不影响有些人为md辩护，客观请看：(后面有"5毛"网友对此的批驳)
发信人: lopt (好好学习天天向上), 信区: Military
标 题: 所谓美国杀猪不放血也是胡说八道
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Sep 18 02:58:18 2011, 美东)
这个用脚后跟想想也不对啊，不放血的肉能吃吗？不知道最早是那个五毛造的谣言，结
果成了被各路老中广泛接受的“事实”了。
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_slaughter
Before slaughter, pigs are first rendered unconscious using one of the
following means: stunning using electric current applied with electrodes, or
stunning using captive bolt pistol, or inhalation of CO2. They are then
hoisted ... 阅读全帖 |
|
B*V
发帖数: 3365 | 40 在美国做过饭的都知道美国的猪肉用水一煮，血泡沫拉拉的。。。
但是这不影响有些人为md辩护，客观请看：(后面有"5毛"网友对此的批驳)
发信人: lopt (好好学习天天向上), 信区: Military
标 题: 所谓美国杀猪不放血也是胡说八道
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Sep 18 02:58:18 2011, 美东)
这个用脚后跟想想也不对啊，不放血的肉能吃吗？不知道最早是那个五毛造的谣言，结
果成了被各路老中广泛接受的“事实”了。
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_slaughter
Before slaughter, pigs are first rendered unconscious using one of the
following means: stunning using electric current applied with electrodes, or
stunning using captive bolt pistol, or inhalation of CO2. They are then
hoisted ... 阅读全帖 |
|
U*E
发帖数: 3620 | 41 在美国做过饭的都知道美国的猪肉用水一煮，血泡沫拉拉的。。。
但是这不影响有些人为md辩护，客观请看：(后面有"5毛"网友对此的批驳)
发信人: lopt (好好学习天天向上), 信区: Military
标 题: 所谓美国杀猪不放血也是胡说八道
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Sep 18 02:58:18 2011, 美东)
这个用脚后跟想想也不对啊，不放血的肉能吃吗？不知道最早是那个五毛造的谣言，结
果成了被各路老中广泛接受的“事实”了。
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_slaughter
Before slaughter, pigs are first rendered unconscious using one of the
following means: stunning using electric current applied with electrodes, or
stunning using captive bolt pistol, or inhalation of CO2. They are then
hoisted ... 阅读全帖 |
|
E*V
发帖数: 17544 | 42 在美国做过饭的都知道美国的猪肉用水一煮，血泡沫拉拉的。。。
但是这不影响有些人为md辩护，客观请看：(后面有"5毛"网友对此的批驳)
发信人: lopt (好好学习天天向上), 信区: Military
标 题: 所谓美国杀猪不放血也是胡说八道
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Sep 18 02:58:18 2011, 美东)
这个用脚后跟想想也不对啊，不放血的肉能吃吗？不知道最早是那个五毛造的谣言，结
果成了被各路老中广泛接受的“事实”了。
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_slaughter
Before slaughter, pigs are first rendered unconscious using one of the
following means: stunning using electric current applied with electrodes, or
stunning using captive bolt pistol, or inhalation of CO2. They are then
hoisted ... 阅读全帖 |
|
F*V
发帖数: 3978 | 43 在美国做过饭的都知道美国的猪肉用水一煮，血泡沫拉拉的。。。
但是这不影响有些人为md辩护，客观请看：(后面有"5毛"网友对此的批驳)
发信人: lopt (好好学习天天向上), 信区: Military
标 题: 所谓美国杀猪不放血也是胡说八道
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Sep 18 02:58:18 2011, 美东)
这个用脚后跟想想也不对啊，不放血的肉能吃吗？不知道最早是那个五毛造的谣言，结
果成了被各路老中广泛接受的“事实”了。
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_slaughter
Before slaughter, pigs are first rendered unconscious using one of the
following means: stunning using electric current applied with electrodes, or
stunning using captive bolt pistol, or inhalation of CO2. They are then
hoisted ... 阅读全帖 |
|
D*V
发帖数: 3096 | 44 发信人: lopt (好好学习天天向上), 信区: Military
标 题: 所谓美国杀猪不放血也是胡说八道
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Sep 18 02:58:18 2011, 美东)
这个用脚后跟想想也不对啊，不放血的肉能吃吗？不知道最早是那个五毛造的谣言，结
果成了被各路老中广泛接受的“事实”了。
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_slaughter
Before slaughter, pigs are first rendered unconscious using one of the
following means: stunning using electric current applied with electrodes, or
stunning using captive bolt pistol, or inhalation of CO2. They are then
hoisted on a rail, after which they are exsanguinated, usually via the
caro... 阅读全帖 |
|
B*V
发帖数: 3365 | 45 发信人: lopt (好好学习天天向上), 信区: Military
标 题: 所谓美国杀猪不放血也是胡说八道
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Sep 18 02:58:18 2011, 美东)
这个用脚后跟想想也不对啊，不放血的肉能吃吗？不知道最早是那个五毛造的谣言，结
果成了被各路老中广泛接受的“事实”了。
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_slaughter
Before slaughter, pigs are first rendered unconscious using one of the
following means: stunning using electric current applied with electrodes, or
stunning using captive bolt pistol, or inhalation of CO2. They are then
hoisted on a rail, after which they are exsanguinated, usually via the
caro... 阅读全帖 |
|
B*V
发帖数: 3365 | 46 在美国做过饭的都知道美国的猪肉用水一煮，血泡沫拉拉的。。。
但是这不影响有些人为md辩护，客观请看：(后面有"5毛"网友对此的批驳)
发信人: lopt (好好学习天天向上), 信区: Military
标 题: 所谓美国杀猪不放血也是胡说八道
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Sep 18 02:58:18 2011, 美东)
这个用脚后跟想想也不对啊，不放血的肉能吃吗？不知道最早是那个五毛造的谣言，结
果成了被各路老中广泛接受的“事实”了。
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_slaughter
Before slaughter, pigs are first rendered unconscious using one of the
following means: stunning using electric current applied with electrodes, or
stunning using captive bolt pistol, or inhalation of CO2. They are then
hoisted ... 阅读全帖 |
|
B*V
发帖数: 3365 | 47 在美国做过饭的都知道美国的猪肉用水一煮，血泡沫拉拉的。。。
但是这不影响有些人为md辩护，客观请看：(后面有"5毛"网友对此的批驳)
发信人: lopt (好好学习天天向上), 信区: Military
标 题: 所谓美国杀猪不放血也是胡说八道
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Sep 18 02:58:18 2011, 美东)
这个用脚后跟想想也不对啊，不放血的肉能吃吗？不知道最早是那个五毛造的谣言，结
果成了被各路老中广泛接受的“事实”了。
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_slaughter
Before slaughter, pigs are first rendered unconscious using one of the
following means: stunning using electric current applied with electrodes, or
stunning using captive bolt pistol, or inhalation of CO2. They are then
hoisted ... 阅读全帖 |
|
B*V
发帖数: 3365 | 48 发信人: lopt (好好学习天天向上), 信区: Military
标 题: 所谓美国杀猪不放血也是胡说八道
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Sep 18 02:58:18 2011, 美东)
这个用脚后跟想想也不对啊，不放血的肉能吃吗？不知道最早是那个五毛造的谣言，结
果成了被各路老中广泛接受的“事实”了。
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_slaughter
Before slaughter, pigs are first rendered unconscious using one of the
following means: stunning using electric current applied with electrodes, or
stunning using captive bolt pistol, or inhalation of CO2. They are then
hoisted on a rail, after which they are exsanguinated, usually via the
caro... 阅读全帖 |
|
B*V
发帖数: 3365 | 49 在美国做过饭的都知道美国的猪肉用水一煮，血泡沫拉拉的。。。
但是这不影响有些人为md辩护，客观请看：(后面有"5毛"网友对此的批驳)
发信人: lopt (好好学习天天向上), 信区: Military
标 题: 所谓美国杀猪不放血也是胡说八道
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Sep 18 02:58:18 2011, 美东)
这个用脚后跟想想也不对啊，不放血的肉能吃吗？不知道最早是那个五毛造的谣言，结
果成了被各路老中广泛接受的“事实”了。
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_slaughter
Before slaughter, pigs are first rendered unconscious using one of the
following means: stunning using electric current applied with electrodes, or
stunning using captive bolt pistol, or inhalation of CO2. They are then
hoisted ... 阅读全帖 |
|
F*V
发帖数: 3978 | 50 在美国做过饭的都知道美国的猪肉用水一煮，血泡沫拉拉的。。。
但是这不影响有些人为md辩护，客观请看：(后面有"5毛"网友对此的批驳)
发信人: lopt (好好学习天天向上), 信区: Military
标 题: 所谓美国杀猪不放血也是胡说八道
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Sep 18 02:58:18 2011, 美东)
这个用脚后跟想想也不对啊，不放血的肉能吃吗？不知道最早是那个五毛造的谣言，结
果成了被各路老中广泛接受的“事实”了。
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_slaughter
Before slaughter, pigs are first rendered unconscious using one of the
following means: stunning using electric current applied with electrodes, or
stunning using captive bolt pistol, or inhalation of CO2. They are then
hoisted ... 阅读全帖 |
|
