c*****t
发帖数: 817 | 1 I think most sites have a 40BB min buyin requirement. So 20BB might not work
. They do have shallow tables that allow 20BB min buyin, but then there are
many short stacks there that try to do the same thing.
For a live 5/10 player like you, it will be a huge waste of your skills to
play 20BB buyin games. Yes, you can play the optimal strategy. But even with
that your upside is limited and the variance is high, since even the
optimal strategy your edge is small. I think for a good player it is ... 阅读全帖 |
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c*****t
发帖数: 817 | 2 In general, raise very tight since you have to fold to a shove.
Shove light because raiser has to fold to your shove often.
Fold small to medium pairs from early position, but open-shove with them
from late position. For example, if you have 20BBs and have TT at cutoff.
Open shove 20BB allin. You dont want to raise, get shoved, and have to call
and race against QJ.
Never play speculative hands unless you got > 5:1 pot odds.
Most important -- be patient! 20BB is a very, very healthy stack size on... 阅读全帖 |
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p**********1
发帖数: 1458 | 3 in general 15-22bb stack is considered optimal 3bet-shove stack, in the
sense the risk-reward ratio is best, i.e., you're not risking too much to
gain a substantial pot. and you have decent fold equity because the initial
aggressor would not have proper odds to call your shove too light.
besides the 3bet-shove, you can still raise/fold vs some tight-nonaggressive
players (aka rocks). against hyper-aggro donks who shove over your raise
100%, raise/call with decent hands is high-variance but very ... 阅读全帖 |
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p****r
发帖数: 9164 | 4 A lot of these kind of game online nowdays. usually you can buy in for
100BB,but
the most amount of money that you can put into the pot is 20BB. Say in NL100
, you can buy in for 100$, but for each pot you can only put 20$ in total,
preflop+post flop total.
I see lot of bad players in this kind of game now. Any starting hand
chart that I can use based on postion in FR game or 6 max game? I am pretty
sure that small pp and SC do not play well in this type of game. could be a
easy game if mul... 阅读全帖 |
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p****r
发帖数: 9164 | 5 yeah. FTP's structure sucks. it is 30BB/pot. I played there a few times
preBF.
But I think 20BB/player could be a lot better. I attached one of
Chinese poker player's PTR chart here. All her game recently are capped NL
game.
mathematically |
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p****r
发帖数: 9164 | 6 en. I think the risk is a lot lower in 20BB/player cap game as well. |
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p****r
发帖数: 9164 | 7 she mostly plays 10-20NLor 25-50NL at PS recently. not quite small stake.
Considerd cap structure, it is not really big game though. I think she made
most of her money since she moved up.
Do you know any place that I can find strategy for 6max or FR cap
cash game? 20BB/player structure
back
pro |
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d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 8 换了个modem，网络终于正常。可又是悲摧的一天，心态还算好，几把牌可能有问题。
1 6k 33
2 4k 5.5 + 5.5 + 5.5
3 5k 11
4 5k 60 + 60
5 6.5k 33
6 freeroll
7 25k 11
8 35k 60
9 35k 33
1） AJo 20bb 3bet shove EP 2bb open, lost to qq, knockout
2） EP 5bb open, hero reraise to 11bb with AA, LP pro cold shove 110bb, EP
allin call, hero allin call, pro kk, EP TT, flop KTx, pro win, rebuy. 22
limp, flop 245r, set over set lost to the same TT guy, rebuy, 15bb aqo sb
pot squeeze, CO limp/call, flop kjxr, hero cbet pot size as... 阅读全帖 |
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d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 9 前言：
哥一直跟朋友讲，打牌绝对不能无脑模式化，要有质疑精神，钻研精神。可是哥自己始
终还是无法坚决贯彻。浪费了真金白银买来的hm2的大好资源。每天貌似打很多手牌，
但是打过算过，也不复盘总结，这样下去真的是白白浪费中年的大好时光。
哥最终还是下定决心，牺牲tourney被knockout之后打dota的时间，每天花个半小时看
看复盘、写写扑克日记。
背景介绍：
哥就是屌丝中的战斗机...
2010年6月充值，从online micro stake 6－max cash game和freeroll、micro buy－
in tournament开始打起，享受着上上下下的快感，前后投入总额270刀，逐步升级，
2013年之前主打50NL 6－max cash game ＋ 3刀至11刀买入级别的tourney，盈利不错
。2013年头2个月running super good，重心逐步转到tourney，对tourney strategy、
心理控制以及资金管理方面有一点点心得(虽然skill set还属中下游，每天还在不停的
犯错)。哥完全依靠数据打牌。最喜欢说的两句话，it dep... 阅读全帖 |
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c*****t
发帖数: 817 | 10 来自主题: TexasHoldem版 - Yeah! Cake rarely has overlay -- life is not that sweet. :-)
But I do think last minute buyin is always +EV. This is true even for
regular MTTs. Lets see an example. Say a regular MTT has 1000 players with $
10k prize pool and 5000 starting chips. After 1 hour, 500 busted. So we have
500 players left and 10000 average chips. Lets simplify the case and say
that a player with the average stack size has 10k / 500 = $20 equity.Then I
joined at the last minute. I paid $10+fee and got 5000 chips, which is h... 阅读全帖 |
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d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 11 1 750 gtd 11
2 750 gtd 3.3 + 3.3 $7.63
3 1.5k gtd 11 $219.42
4 750 gtd 11+11+11 BUBBLED
5 3.5k gtd 11+10+10
6 3.5k gtd 11
7 1k gtd 1.1+1+2+2+1
-110.7 227.05 +117.6
1 AJo 20bb 3bet shove EP pro 2.4x open < QQ, knockout
2 AKs UTG+1 6bb 3bet, MP cold call, other fold. 7d3dAc 7s 8d , flop check,
check, turn check/villain ½ pot/hero 3x shove/villain call with Ad2d,
noted. Re-buy. ITM, KQo EP 14bb open shove<10bb AQo, cri... 阅读全帖 |
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d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 12 1 1k gtd 11
2 1.5k gtd 11
3 750 gtd 3.3
4 500 gtd 22 $208
5 1.5k gtd 3.3+3+3
6 3k gtd 11+10+10 $64.60
-87.6 272.6 +185
1, AJo 10bb < 77, out
2, 66 10bb reshove CL 2bb open, CL call, <99, out
3, T7o on SB shove 6bb BB < AQo, K5s MP 6bb open shove<33, out
4, BTN 10bb K6o shove MP CL(41/0)'s limp, SB snap reshove, > SB's AJo,
double up.
Stack 25bb, Pos 4/6, first 4 get paid,这桌打得要毁三观了，昨那位奇葩哥风格大
变41/11/2，坐哥左手，再左面又是一家32/6/6，各种烂牌flat。哥慢慢看戏。10bb EP
with ... 阅读全帖 |
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w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 13 我没有拿onine nl200和live nl200比。我前面举的bovada和ps的例子，都不是拿onine
nl200和live nl200比。popo到bovada应该比在WPN的edge增大了很多，为什么最后打
不下去要quit了？
假设按你说的，liveNL200水平等于onlineNL10.
那么本版几个打liveNL200的hourly rate是$35/hour,剔除小费和live抽水高的因素，
（live抽水10%，cap$4,online 5% cap $3.)相当于20BB/hour。
live 25-30hand/hour,online 100-120hand/hour.
也就是live的20BB/hour相当于online的80BB/hour。你现在打online 10NL能打到80BB/
hour吗？如果你能够做到，可以开6台，挣$48/hour，一天打$400，一个月$12000。你
打NL600能挣到这个数吗？为什么那么多online reg不去这么搞，偏偏去打NL200，
NL600，一个月才挣小几千？既然online 10NL edge有那么大，难道... 阅读全帖 |
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w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 14 你现在还没真正意识到我说的意思。
你和或者说一般人都认为online的曲线是poker概率的正常曲线。你用online曲线来判
定live的曲线是否正常。但是假定online sites做了手脚，online的曲线就是被扭曲的
曲线。所谓一般赢率5bb/100hand也是pokerroom干预的结果。也许正常的赢率应该是
20BB/100hand。
我觉得live的曲线才是正常曲线。因为live没有作弊的可能。你想live的edge相当于
online的80bb/100hand,这种edge有那样向上斜度的曲线一点都不奇怪。因为edge足够
大，downswing小而且短也合乎情理。我认为判定一个player的edge并不需要30万手那
么多。也许3万手都不用。edge越大，需要判断的手数就越少。你如果去打online NL5
，可能打完一千手是20BB/100hand,打完30万手，还是20BB/100hand。这是因为你edge
足够大，受运气影响就小。打几千手的数据，就能代表打其他stakes 30万手的数据。
反过来说，为什么online需要那么多手数，就是因为edge太小。所... 阅读全帖 |
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f********d
发帖数: 796 | 15 本人从2016年初开始打牌，一直努力学习。目前主打bovada 9max NL50.我会把每天有
意思的牌普记录下来，有打的臭的，打的好的。大家一起讨论学习。
从7月开始用软件记录自己的成绩，目前好像是5bb/100 hand，大概2-3万手牌吧。之前
在水木上贴牌普，以后两边一起更新。
hand8
好久没来了，发两手nit fold
hero has KJo MP, V open 3bb EP. Hero call. both has around 100bb
flop JJ8 R, V check, hero bet 60% pot. V call
Turn 4, now board has two d. V check , hero bet 70% pot. V call
River is 7d, V shove allin. Hero tank fold
这个对手有点疯，但是我读他可能是88，9dTd这样的牌。
hand 9
hero has AKo MP open 3bb，V is in CO call the open. both 100b
... 阅读全帖 |
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f********d
发帖数: 796 | 16 本人从2016年初开始打牌，一直努力学习。目前主打bovada 9max NL50.我会把每天有
意思的牌普记录下来，有打的臭的，打的好的。大家一起讨论学习。
从7月开始用软件记录自己的成绩，目前好像是5bb/100 hand，大概2-3万手牌吧。之前
在水木上贴牌普，以后两边一起更新。
hand8
好久没来了，发两手nit fold
hero has KJo MP, V open 3bb EP. Hero call. both has around 100bb
flop JJ8 R, V check, hero bet 60% pot. V call
Turn 4, now board has two d. V check , hero bet 70% pot. V call
River is 7d, V shove allin. Hero tank fold
这个对手有点疯，但是我读他可能是88，9dTd这样的牌。
hand 9
hero has AKo MP open 3bb，V is in CO call the open. both 100b
... 阅读全帖 |
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y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 17 来自主题: TexasHoldem版 - 得意一下 I guess it is not the optimal strategy for 20bb stack.
20BB needs to be very tight, since no implied odds.
Only play good cards, and play it very quickly.
Just my 2 cents.
maybe you can play that way, still very profitable. |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 18 观察了一下，将mini-buyin从20BB提高到35BB，对于short stacker很难受，明显少多
了。
典型short stacker的主要战术无外乎：
1) shove with premium hands (99+, AJs+)，位置越靠后，牌越弱。以前这么干，很
少有人会call，因为20BB这个大小很烦。
2) 偷，尤其是在靠后，4x 左右，或者SB vs. BB, Button vs. SB/BB (BSB play)，通
过小偷小摸来弥补blinds的损失，继续熬大牌。
所以short stacker基本上没有out of position的post flop play。加上N桌同时进行
，薄利多收，那桌double up就跑。
现在这个size逼得它们更紧，也使得它们的implied odds变好，4x什么的很可能有人会
跟，而post flop play是它们的软肋，多桌也导致它们分散精力，机械打法的效益大大
下降。
虽然有新的shallow table(20-40BB)，但是那里大家都是short，同类相残，起手牌，
打法类似，edge很小。
对FTP而言， |
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p*******p
发帖数: 13670 | 19 老大很牛啊,佩服佩服,我先说说我的打法吧
mini raise, NL50往往要么就是很烂的牌,要么就是monster, 但是这里我当时直觉觉得
他不回是AcXc这种牌,否则turn不bet实在不是很好的打法,当然真有人这么打我也没辙,
所以river我的判断70% set, 30%其他flush draw,或者nut flush draw啥的. 我当时的
反应是shove, 理由是如果我只是raise一个20BB,那么如果他是nut flush draw,他还是
会reraise我,但是我肯定不回fold 我的k high flush这里,所以没区别,但是如果他是
88或者AA,那么他很有可能call一下我的over bet, 只要他有20%的概率call我的shove,
那么也比100%的20BB 3bet被call的ev高,
结果很幸运,他AA想trap我,结果自己输了整个stack,而且他有一个Ac,可能让他更愿意
call我的over bet
LP |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 20 yes, i was watching 4 tables at the same time, almost every 20BB alike
reshove and call was a coin flip. every table was filled with either pro, ex
FTOP winners or big name sharks.
one poor guy, literally 3 hands in a row:
1) AA called MP's shove with TT, lost.
2) then QQ at SB called UTG's (ex FTOP winner) 20BB shove with 22, BB re-
shoved with 77, 22 hit flop 2;
3) then only about 10BB left, shoved next hand again 66 in unopened pot, SB
(same 77 guy) woke up with AA.
a sad story to tell for we... 阅读全帖 |
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y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 21 $200/hour
-----sounds very strange.
1) live game means only one tabling, generally you will be dealt 40 hands per
hour. I guess only 8-10 hands is playable. If you play all 10 hands, then it
is 25% vpip, which is a lot.
I still make the assumption of 10 hands.
2) $200. Supposing you play 5/10, it is 20BB. Even we do not count the all
other factors in, such as the tips, the commute fee, it is still a lot.
If we calculate the win rate, it is 20BB/40 hands, which is equals to 50BB/
100 hands, I do ... 阅读全帖 |
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d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 22 难道又是超级悲剧的一天
1 4.5k gtd 1r/1a 11 + 10 + 10
2 3k gtd 1a 60 + 55
3 4k gtd turbo 44
4 7.5k gtd 11
5 2.5k gtd 1a 11 + 10
晚上8pm，internet 开始抽筋，果断de-register第六场，试图借邻居的网络完成剩下
的比赛，不想，laptop运行poker软件又碰到问题，折腾到了9点，internet自动恢复，
哥一边问候comcast一边打开poker软件，
3号已经挂了
1号<10bb, 果断shove，挂
2号，尼玛120刀的买入啊！哥断线的时候是10k的chips，回来只有4.8k，且盲注400，
第二手哥小盲，44果断3bet shove utg chips leader的2bb open。对手tank and fold
，嘟嘟哝哝说kq，30% equity都没有，真把哥当rock了。紧接着下一把，哥button
with k5o，15bb stack，ope... 阅读全帖 |
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d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 23 1 3K 1R/1A 11 + 10 + 10
2 3K 1R/1A 60 + 55 + 55
3 2K 22
4 3K Turbo 1R/1A 44 + 40
5 4K R/1A 11 + 10 + 10
6 4.5K 33
哥觉得自己是属青蛙的：
1号，11bb a5o在UTG推没人接。k9o，小盲位3bet shove 11bb，CL kq call，挂
3 号，庄家位15bb AQo 3bb open，小盲flat，flop 84Jr cbet ½/call了小盲位
橙色玩家的raise shove，对方亮出 83s and hold（好吧），挂
6 号，AKo 4bet shove to 50bb jj，输到只剩10bb。大盲位用a4o 9bb squeeze 一个
松哥ep 2bb的open以及后面一群松哥flat的4-way的pot，庄家位平call/reshove with
ATs，CO玩家，用... 阅读全帖 |
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d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 24 1 1K 11
2 750 3.3 $7.78
3 1.5K 11
4 1K 11
5 1.5K 3.3+3+3 $28.75
6 3K 11+10+10
1号，UTG+1,TJs 12bb open shove，take down。UTG A7o open shove 14bb into QQ,
knockout
2号，大盲位88 14bb 3bet shove rock 2.1x open + a flatter，take down。换桌，
第一把，UTG 16bb open shove with A9o，被两家AJo call到，suckout！紧接着第二
把，AKo，接了16bb 和8bb的两连推，hold！wow！card dead + busy with other
tables ＝ auto ITM，呵呵。hero 大盲位，55 10bb stack call EP 5bb shove>A9s。
UTG+1 TJo 13bb shove，take down。换桌，UTG 33，15bb，看到大小盲均... 阅读全帖 |
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p******a
发帖数: 975 | 25 这个问题一直是我开始学打牌的以后比较关心的，因为如果你的win rate很高，就意味
着没什么必要在当前级别和一群菜鸟浪费时间了，如果很低，说明打法有大leak需要改
进。
我参照的依据一直是我所尊敬的前辈fcf的《扑克玩家的成长》。以下是他文章中提到
的两句：
“在级别4里待了一阵子大概可以成为50nl-100nl的赢家，一般是2-5ptbb/100 的赢家
。”
“这个级别（NL400～NL600）的最好的赢家也只有~5ptbb/100的赢率(6max,HU 可以到
10ptbb+/100). ”
HU的话到20bb/100是可以理解的，因为HU的高手可以不停的exploit对手，给对手施加
压力，让对手崩溃之类的。6max应该会更加接近fr，所以20bb/100应该很难，估计好的
赢家的长期胜率也就10bb/100出头。参考PTR上面今年best winner的数据，包括HU在内
，超过8万手的最高胜率也就16bb/100。考虑到PTR上面的win rate是算抽水之前的数据
，真实的win rate大概只有上面的一半到四分之三（取决于limit和网站）。所以fcf对
于fr和... 阅读全帖 |
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a**o
发帖数: 730 | 26 两次都是在LAX赌场，从来没有见过这么loose的地方，$1-2 NL, $40-100 buyin. 桌子
上基本都是donk, 一个flush draw就allin, top pair low kicker就allin或者call到
死。桌子除我之外只有一个两个tight week player, 其他都是very loose. 基本没有
3bet, 如果有3bet就是shove. My image is tight.
88那把，我在CO, 我open 5bb, 我后面一个人20bb shove. 这个人非常loose, open
any suited cards。他曾经用Q8o赢了我的qq. 那把牌我raise 6bb, he called,
others fold. Flop 569r. I bet 10bb, he allin, I called. Turn 7, he won.
AQs那次，我在UTG, open 5bb, all others fold, CO一个loose player输光了所有的
chips, just rebought 20bb. Fold to h... 阅读全帖 |
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t***k
发帖数: 57 | 28 call, you have only 20bb, he can easily push 99+, AJo, and you get almost 1 |
|
i********r
发帖数: 1153 | 29 on the previous hand, a shortstacker push for 20BB, i called, a guy behind
me called instantly. another guy called as well. after checking down two
streets, I bet my KQ on AQxxx board and get called by AQ.
on the next hand i was utg w AA. i suspect that the guy behind me may have
the "call any bet" box checked when he has a ok hand. so i shove all-in for
full buy-in. although the guy behind me folded, the guy w AQ in the last
hand called me.
he had JTo.
the board is JJxxx. |
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y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 30 lucky hand on heads up, just tired, and go allin directly. both 20bb deep.
Actually, if I play that hand slow, maybe I have to fold on the turn. |
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y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 31 来自主题: TexasHoldem版 - 得意一下 Maybe very hard for his stack.
His usually buyin is 20BB, but Bo plays 5/10 NL full table also
3bb raise, 3bet means 8bb, it should be allin actually.
After 3bet and get called, usually another continuation bet, around 12bb+
Need 100BB stack to 3bet.
Maybe Ilovepoker can show us in the game. Bo and many of us can benefit from it. |
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y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 32 for current time, it is fine.
but next 3 level, you will find you are short. Should say 10 minutes level,
you will find you always lack blinds.
Have to get all chips in somewhere.
It depends on how much is the blinds for the next level. I played on ftp, I
find it is much smoother than other websites. PS's blinds level increases
very high, almost double.
From my experience, 10k BB level, everyone is short, hard to have 20BB+. |
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y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 33 And I then understand why there are 20bb to 30bb cash game.
It must be caped cash game.
those buddies are pretty crazy in the game. |
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t******b
发帖数: 56 | 34 the previous replier said $200. but even for $100, 20BB/100 is huge.
he can definitely move up to 100nl with that winning rate. |
|
t******b
发帖数: 56 | 35 来自主题: TexasHoldem版 - 我又回来了 I wish you good luck. However, I want to point out that short stacking 2/4
is not profittable. The best shortstackers in online cash game are averaging
1-2 ptbb/100 hands. By best I mean they are selectively aggressive, they
3bet optimal frequencies and open wide ranges in position. They play better
post flop than most regulars in 20bb. The bad news for the short stacker is
that the stack size puts a pretty low ceiling on their potential winrate.
The theoretical winrate decreases as stack size g |
|
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 36 来自主题: TexasHoldem版 - 我又回来了 recently a lot of guys from china on fulltilt are playing this mini-buyin
strategy, 20BB for 0.25/0.5 games, multi tables... double up or 50%+, then
change table. their opening/calling/shoving ranges are very straight forward
, TT+/AK/AQ/AJs (8 hands in total), no other hands, haha.
very easy to play against, either fold or win all. their best customers are
those donks who don't observe well and see their tendencies.
they shove a lot pre, yeah, win most of time, but only for SB/BB/1 or 2
limpers |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 37 来自主题: TexasHoldem版 - 我又回来了 yeah, so i don't bother to fight with them since their range is pretty
straight forward. or sometimes when i got hands like AA, KK, i'll limp IF i
can sense they're in shoving mode from LP.
they play like a robot.
actually i use a similar strategy too, mutli tables, 30BB buy-in (slightly
more than their 20BB mini). i figure this buy-in fits my pattern well, haha.
with 10BB more, i could:
1) play more hands (bet/call 3x, 4x easier without commitment) preflop with
position;
2) have a little more p |
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l***q
发帖数: 62 | 38 同感。我当时考察commerce的时候就发现了这个问题。真是大窘啊，才20BB，只要玩就
必定allin了。我怀疑是不是commerce有其他的屋子可以买high buyin。不过时间紧张
也没来得及问floor
12$ |
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q****8
发帖数: 3281 | 39 it is 20BB, usually I got doubled, I leave. |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 40 The only difference is you already have 6k in. It still does not give you the odds to call imo. 3/1 and 4/1
odds are fairly different in a long wrong.
That is also exactly the reason why I reshove over the top in my example.
Because some guy sitting in the bb holding 34s with 20bb would think he has
the odds to call and see the flop but the fact is that he has absolutely no odds
3 |
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c**********o
发帖数: 213 | 42 FTP任何游戏的min buyin至少是20bb，当然不会有10bb allin再买了
你怎么能拿real money和FB比 |
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t*********d
发帖数: 3398 | 43 这把牌我昨天有过类似的经历。
I was short stack with 40bb @ UTG, KK, bet 3bb, middle position raised to
8bb, button called 8bb, I called. Flop Q35, I checked, MP bet 15 bb, button
all in 20 BB. I somehow knew that one of them had AA while the other had QQ,
just to confirm my assumption, I called 20bb. MP re-raise all in, I called
with rest 12bb, hoped to hit a K.
No K showed up, MP had AA, button had QQ. |
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l******n
发帖数: 641 | 44 mp has no QQ, otherwise he will only call 20bb, not all in.
button
QQ,
called |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 45 raise to 20bb at least. if larger he probably won't call without a flush. |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 46 it's ok, i moved down to 25NL and so far am keeping like 20BB/100 rate with
2 tabling.
my aggression level goes way up and stealing rate is much higher.
1K+ hands everyday can make 200 FTPs. |
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m*********4
发帖数: 94 | 47 nl25是20bb/100? 很牛啊
干嘛不move up啊 |
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p*******p
发帖数: 13670 | 48 me at BB (400bb), co (220bb)
everyone folds to co , he raises 3bb,button and sb fold
I have AdTh,
1. what will you do here?
I actually raise to 9.5BB
co calls
flop 9dAh7c, pot (20bb)
2. What will you do?
I check, co bet 8bb, hero calls
turn 8c, pot (35.5bb)
3. Now what?
I check again, co bet 35.5bb, hero raises to 142BB , co calls
river 5d, pot (320bb)
4 Now what you do? What could co have?
I thought for a long time and decide to check, and co shoved his last 67bb |
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t*********d
发帖数: 3398 | 49 NL100
UTG limped in, UTG+1 raised to 6bb, button called 6BB, I was big blinds with
KK, re-raised to 20BB, UTG folded, UTG+1 170 BB all in, button folded. My
stack covered UTG+1 and folded my KK after thinking for 5 seconds. |
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