c****y
发帖数: 829 | 1 【 以下文字转载自 Belief 讨论区 】
发信人: piggybank (没钱的小猪猪), 信区: Belief
标 题: 无法信基督教的苦恼
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue Dec 4 23:40:53 2007)
断断续续地跟着人学BIBLE也有好几年了. 我一直是诚心诚意地想要成为一个JDT,就是
基于一个想法,JDJ能够在广大的西方传播,必定有它的道理.也喜欢自己能够解脱人世的
烦恼.更何况还时不时地听到一些经典的句子(比如爱是什么什么...). 下面说说我的苦
恼.
1. 原罪说. 刚开始,我不承认人类是生而有罪的.但是,当我了解到所谓的原罪指的是人
类与生俱来的各种欲望时,我接受了这个说法:人是有原罪的(尽管始作俑者就是上帝自
己).因此我老早就觉志(不知道是不是这个词)了.(100%赞同)
2. 上帝存在说. 万事万物如此奇妙,仿佛有如一只无形的手在操纵着这个世界,我没发
不相信有这样一个上帝存在. 至于他是否如圣经所述,见仁见智, 不多争辩.(90%赞同)
3. 耶稣复活说.历史不可考察.关于人死而复升的记载,好象也有科学解释.不是很希奇
的事. 也罢. | c****y
发帖数: 829 | 2 这个话题在宗教版吵的挺热火的. 转到这里让弟兄姐妹讨论一下吧. 我觉得作者一方面
有自己的问题,比如内心的骄傲, 不断的质问神. 另一方面也有我们自身的问题.我们自
己的言行直接影响了福音朋友对基督的看法.
【在 c****y 的大作中提到】
: 【 以下文字转载自 Belief 讨论区 】
: 发信人: piggybank (没钱的小猪猪), 信区: Belief
: 标 题: 无法信基督教的苦恼
: 发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue Dec 4 23:40:53 2007)
: 断断续续地跟着人学BIBLE也有好几年了. 我一直是诚心诚意地想要成为一个JDT,就是
: 基于一个想法,JDJ能够在广大的西方传播,必定有它的道理.也喜欢自己能够解脱人世的
: 烦恼.更何况还时不时地听到一些经典的句子(比如爱是什么什么...). 下面说说我的苦
: 恼.
: 1. 原罪说. 刚开始,我不承认人类是生而有罪的.但是,当我了解到所谓的原罪指的是人
: 类与生俱来的各种欲望时,我接受了这个说法:人是有原罪的(尽管始作俑者就是上帝自
| q*******s
发帖数: 193 | 3 This is such a great topic for discussion!
Many Christians may have also wondered why we can't convert our own families and friends and what we can do to bring them to God. I absolutely agree that our behavior can have a direct impact on those seeking God. Sometimes, it really is not about what we preach, but about how we live our lives.
There was one lesson I learned in my Sunday school that I find very valuable
. We just need to bring people to Jesus and Jesus would do the rest. But
how
【在 c****y 的大作中提到】
: 这个话题在宗教版吵的挺热火的. 转到这里让弟兄姐妹讨论一下吧. 我觉得作者一方面
: 有自己的问题,比如内心的骄傲, 不断的质问神. 另一方面也有我们自身的问题.我们自
: 己的言行直接影响了福音朋友对基督的看法.
| c****y
发帖数: 829 | 4 你老可真能写啊, 先顶慢慢看.现在这系统,不顶你都看不了.
families and friends and what we can do to bring them to God. I absolutely
agree that our behavior can have a direct impact on those seeking God.
Sometimes, it really is not about what we preach, but about how we live our
lives.
valuable
But
why
Jesus
【在 q*******s 的大作中提到】
: This is such a great topic for discussion!
: Many Christians may have also wondered why we can't convert our own families and friends and what we can do to bring them to God. I absolutely agree that our behavior can have a direct impact on those seeking God. Sometimes, it really is not about what we preach, but about how we live our lives.
: There was one lesson I learned in my Sunday school that I find very valuable
: . We just need to bring people to Jesus and Jesus would do the rest. But
: how
| c****y
发帖数: 829 | 5 其实各种人信主的原因都不太一样, 有被周围人影响的, 被朋友,同学的生命改变所吸
引,也有人就是被神的话所折服, 本来一副找人辩论的样子,可是几番下来,自己就在神
的话语面前倒下了.归在主的名下,而且我认识的属于后者的都信的很坚定.
families and friends and what we can do to bring them to God. I absolutely
agree that our behavior can have a direct impact on those seeking God.
Sometimes, it really is not about what we preach, but about how we live our
lives.
valuable
But
why
Jesus
【在 q*******s 的大作中提到】
: This is such a great topic for discussion!
: Many Christians may have also wondered why we can't convert our own families and friends and what we can do to bring them to God. I absolutely agree that our behavior can have a direct impact on those seeking God. Sometimes, it really is not about what we preach, but about how we live our lives.
: There was one lesson I learned in my Sunday school that I find very valuable
: . We just need to bring people to Jesus and Jesus would do the rest. But
: how
| q*******s
发帖数: 193 | 6 Let me discuss a concrete example in real life.
My friend is a Christian and her father is not. Her father is a very
scientific person and very good at debating. He stays with her for 6 months
each year. When he comes to the US, we encourage him to go to church with
us. All the great teachers and pastors have tried to convince him, but
nothing worked (one of the pastors is a very successful pastor from Hongkong
who converted many people at 布道会）. Her dad is a very good and very
sincere pers
【在 c****y 的大作中提到】
: 其实各种人信主的原因都不太一样, 有被周围人影响的, 被朋友,同学的生命改变所吸
: 引,也有人就是被神的话所折服, 本来一副找人辩论的样子,可是几番下来,自己就在神
: 的话语面前倒下了.归在主的名下,而且我认识的属于后者的都信的很坚定.
:
: families and friends and what we can do to bring them to God. I absolutely
: agree that our behavior can have a direct impact on those seeking God.
: Sometimes, it really is not about what we preach, but about how we live our
: lives.
: valuable
: But
| G******0
发帖数: 737 | 7 Sharing with him your own roads becoming a Christian...praying to the Lord
at the same time...Many scientific people hope to go through rational
thinking to believe something...I myself was like that before...But what
really turned me to a believer was experiencing the Lord...my humble 2 cents
...
months
with
Hongkong
crossed
【在 q*******s 的大作中提到】
: Let me discuss a concrete example in real life.
: My friend is a Christian and her father is not. Her father is a very
: scientific person and very good at debating. He stays with her for 6 months
: each year. When he comes to the US, we encourage him to go to church with
: us. All the great teachers and pastors have tried to convince him, but
: nothing worked (one of the pastors is a very successful pastor from Hongkong
: who converted many people at 布道会）. Her dad is a very good and very
: sincere pers
| a******g
发帖数: 139 | 8 信仰主耶稣基督，是一种生活体验，就是真真切切体会到神的存在和爱，经历过的人是
无法忘记的。其实，unbeliever总想辩论，要么说我们的信仰是荒谬的，要么为自己无
法相信而进行辩解，可是对于我们来说，真正体会到的东西，是无法舍弃，也不会被辩
倒的。每个人都有自己的见证和体会到的主恩。多跟家人朋友分享，他们才能也明白。
否则outsider眼中的“基督教”总是跟我们弟兄姐妹体会到的不一样的。 | a******g
发帖数: 139 | 9 我也有一个好友，曾经在读大学的时候，经常参加查经班什么的，学习Bible。结果到
头来没有信，也是觉得很多东西不太能接受。
相反，我以前从来没有碰过Bible，在我人生道路崎岖的时候，因着神的带领，我接触
到基督徒，听他们祷告，也蒙一个美国人的教会送我一本Bible。我就开始自己看几页
，并且忍不住在内心困苦中开始向神祷告，去寻求这位独一的真神，就寻到了，心里大
大平安和喜乐。
所以，不少人有误区，以为学习Bible就行了，实际上，只是open their mind，更重要
的是要真正的open their heart，去寻求神，去寻求真理。
希望更多的慕道者会因着对神的渴望和寻求而得救！阿门！ | q*******s
发帖数: 193 | 10 In our small group meetings, we have prayed for her dad many times. My
friend and her mom are both Christians. But her dad thinks that they are
weak-minded. My friend has shared with her dad regarding how Jesus has
changed her life, but he thinks those changes just occurred naturally.
Everything is going well in his life, and he doesn't feel the need to search
for God. We will continue to pray. But it is discouraging for my friend
that her dad's attitude has not changed in the past 5
【在 G******0 的大作中提到】
: Sharing with him your own roads becoming a Christian...praying to the Lord
: at the same time...Many scientific people hope to go through rational
: thinking to believe something...I myself was like that before...But what
: really turned me to a believer was experiencing the Lord...my humble 2 cents
: ...
:
: months
: with
: Hongkong
: crossed
| | | q*******s
发帖数: 193 | 11 Same here. I found the Lord when things were not going well in my life.
Bad fortunes are often blessings in disguise. Our Lord indeed lifts
burdens and brings peace.
【在 a******g 的大作中提到】
: 我也有一个好友，曾经在读大学的时候，经常参加查经班什么的，学习Bible。结果到
: 头来没有信，也是觉得很多东西不太能接受。
: 相反，我以前从来没有碰过Bible，在我人生道路崎岖的时候，因着神的带领，我接触
: 到基督徒，听他们祷告，也蒙一个美国人的教会送我一本Bible。我就开始自己看几页
: ，并且忍不住在内心困苦中开始向神祷告，去寻求这位独一的真神，就寻到了，心里大
: 大平安和喜乐。
: 所以，不少人有误区，以为学习Bible就行了，实际上，只是open their mind，更重要
: 的是要真正的open their heart，去寻求神，去寻求真理。
: 希望更多的慕道者会因着对神的渴望和寻求而得救！阿门！
| a******g
发帖数: 139 | 12 You can't try to make him eperience the Lord. It is in vain!
It is for the Lord's desire that he can experience it. So, just pray.
"Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have
received it, and it will be yours." (Mark 11:24)
My parents don't believe. I pray every night before I go to sleep. Each time
after I pray, I feel peaceful and I always believe that Lord will make them
believe one day. I pray, then I just wait for the Lord to fulfill it. I don
't need to wor
【在 q*******s 的大作中提到】
: In our small group meetings, we have prayed for her dad many times. My
: friend and her mom are both Christians. But her dad thinks that they are
: weak-minded. My friend has shared with her dad regarding how Jesus has
: changed her life, but he thinks those changes just occurred naturally.
: Everything is going well in his life, and he doesn't feel the need to search
: for God. We will continue to pray. But it is discouraging for my friend
: that her dad's attitude has not changed in the past 5
| a******g
发帖数: 139 | 13 I also call my parents and share the gospel and my experience with them
sometimes.
Remember in John 11, when Lazarus was dead, Jesus wept? He the Almighty wept
for the people who don't believe -- If a person doesn't believe, his/her
death would broke the heart of someone who loves him/her, even though those
people believe and have their own eternal life. And christians will not be
happy leaving their loved ones in hell. Our Lord understands! He has been in
a human form. He has his mother Mary an
【在 a******g 的大作中提到】
: You can't try to make him eperience the Lord. It is in vain!
: It is for the Lord's desire that he can experience it. So, just pray.
: "Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have
: received it, and it will be yours." (Mark 11:24)
: My parents don't believe. I pray every night before I go to sleep. Each time
: after I pray, I feel peaceful and I always believe that Lord will make them
: believe one day. I pray, then I just wait for the Lord to fulfill it. I don
: 't need to wor
| c****y
发帖数: 829 | 14
很好啊， 我最不知道怎么跟家里人来传了，去年回家也就是带了些游子吟，福音啊书
和dVD，可是开始讲一两句就被叉过去了。可能我还是自身改变不够，让他们也无所谓。
【在 a******g 的大作中提到】
: I also call my parents and share the gospel and my experience with them
: sometimes.
: Remember in John 11, when Lazarus was dead, Jesus wept? He the Almighty wept
: for the people who don't believe -- If a person doesn't believe, his/her
: death would broke the heart of someone who loves him/her, even though those
: people believe and have their own eternal life. And christians will not be
: happy leaving their loved ones in hell. Our Lord understands! He has been in
: a human form. He has his mother Mary an
| a******g
发帖数: 139 | 15 是啊，我们得着就恩以后，还要努力顺服圣灵的带领，往成圣前进。如果我们自身还做
得不好，或者不好的地方没有改变，那么怎么见证主爱在我们生命中的影响呢？有些时
候我也会被好朋友嘲讽为“伪基督徒”，说我跟以前没什么改变，我心里就很郁闷，向
主认罪，求圣灵带领。不过现在还是如保罗所说的，“(罗 7:15) 因为我所做的，我自
己不明白；我所愿意的，我并不做；我所恨恶的，我倒去做。”
幸好我爸妈比较开通，并不会把我的信仰一棒子打死，我托朋友回国的时候给家里带了
大字版的中文圣经，我妈也愿意看。就是她说，故事不吸引。所以，我想要逐步引导他
们看，跟他们分享真理。
以后我有机会回国，或者有朋友回国，我也会给家里带那些书还有一些人的见证给他们
看。我相信，只要你乐意跟他们分享，他们总有一天愿意去思考的。 | q*******s
发帖数: 193 | 16 This is exactly what happens with my friend's dad. It seems quite common
among Chinese parents.
【在 c****y 的大作中提到】
:
: 很好啊， 我最不知道怎么跟家里人来传了，去年回家也就是带了些游子吟，福音啊书
: 和dVD，可是开始讲一两句就被叉过去了。可能我还是自身改变不够，让他们也无所谓。
| q*******s
发帖数: 193 | 17 My friend has prayed sincerely for 10 years already. At least her mother
becomes a Christian during this period. But still no change in dad or
brothers and sisters.
I suppose your attitude is a good one -- leave it to the Lord, rather than
worrying about it ourselves. But I think my friend feels very discouraged
sometimes, and I just don't know what to say to her. Maybe I should ask
our church small group to discuss this and see if anyone has good
suggestions for keeping her encoura
【在 a******g 的大作中提到】
: 是啊，我们得着就恩以后，还要努力顺服圣灵的带领，往成圣前进。如果我们自身还做
: 得不好，或者不好的地方没有改变，那么怎么见证主爱在我们生命中的影响呢？有些时
: 候我也会被好朋友嘲讽为“伪基督徒”，说我跟以前没什么改变，我心里就很郁闷，向
: 主认罪，求圣灵带领。不过现在还是如保罗所说的，“(罗 7:15) 因为我所做的，我自
: 己不明白；我所愿意的，我并不做；我所恨恶的，我倒去做。”
: 幸好我爸妈比较开通，并不会把我的信仰一棒子打死，我托朋友回国的时候给家里带了
: 大字版的中文圣经，我妈也愿意看。就是她说，故事不吸引。所以，我想要逐步引导他
: 们看，跟他们分享真理。
: 以后我有机会回国，或者有朋友回国，我也会给家里带那些书还有一些人的见证给他们
: 看。我相信，只要你乐意跟他们分享，他们总有一天愿意去思考的。
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