a*****i
发帖数: 4391 | 1 This is a story behind the Russian-Georgian conflict, I will not copy and
paste it, if you are interested, it is a amazing read (Albeit a little short
).
http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/2008/08/the-truth-about-1.php
I love reading about (international) history and politics. I don't remember
the last time I read a fiction (non-science fiction) book, I only read staff
that can increase my knowledge of something. (Oh wait, I think the last
fiction I read was da vinci's code, I was so bored on |
n******t
发帖数: 4406 | 2 I agree that China culturally more resembles a desert than the US.
However, US is extremely biased when it comes to international issues.
short
remember
staff
【在 a*****i 的大作中提到】
: This is a story behind the Russian-Georgian conflict, I will not copy and
: paste it, if you are interested, it is a amazing read (Albeit a little short
: ).
: http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/2008/08/the-truth-about-1.php
: I love reading about (international) history and politics. I don't remember
: the last time I read a fiction (non-science fiction) book, I only read staff
: that can increase my knowledge of something. (Oh wait, I think the last
: fiction I read was da vinci's code, I was so bored on
|
a*****i
发帖数: 4391 | 3 Not really.
Because of composition of US population, pretty much you read the fairest
stuff from US source.
Did you read the article?
【在 n******t 的大作中提到】
: I agree that China culturally more resembles a desert than the US.
: However, US is extremely biased when it comes to international issues.
:
: short
: remember
: staff
|
c******r
发帖数: 2306 | 4 Well, America is a liberal democracy. In an open society like the one we
have, you can read all kinds of opinions, access all kinds of publications.
Many of these opinions could be very extreme. Getting exposed to a wide
variety of opinions along the political spectrum is a process of maturing
and growing. The result is more balanced view, and more informed citizenry.
Such an informedness is a very important basis for a civil society to
succeed.
A random wander around any bookstore in this count
【在 a*****i 的大作中提到】
: This is a story behind the Russian-Georgian conflict, I will not copy and
: paste it, if you are interested, it is a amazing read (Albeit a little short
: ).
: http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/2008/08/the-truth-about-1.php
: I love reading about (international) history and politics. I don't remember
: the last time I read a fiction (non-science fiction) book, I only read staff
: that can increase my knowledge of something. (Oh wait, I think the last
: fiction I read was da vinci's code, I was so bored on
|
c******r
发帖数: 2306 | 5 I forgot to ask. Where do you stand on the Russia-Georgia issue?
You seem to have read a lot of literature on this.
short
remember
staff
【在 a*****i 的大作中提到】
: This is a story behind the Russian-Georgian conflict, I will not copy and
: paste it, if you are interested, it is a amazing read (Albeit a little short
: ).
: http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/2008/08/the-truth-about-1.php
: I love reading about (international) history and politics. I don't remember
: the last time I read a fiction (non-science fiction) book, I only read staff
: that can increase my knowledge of something. (Oh wait, I think the last
: fiction I read was da vinci's code, I was so bored on
|
s*r
发帖数: 2757 | 6 love means responsibility and scarification
you are just being indulged
short
remember
staff
【在 a*****i 的大作中提到】
: This is a story behind the Russian-Georgian conflict, I will not copy and
: paste it, if you are interested, it is a amazing read (Albeit a little short
: ).
: http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/2008/08/the-truth-about-1.php
: I love reading about (international) history and politics. I don't remember
: the last time I read a fiction (non-science fiction) book, I only read staff
: that can increase my knowledge of something. (Oh wait, I think the last
: fiction I read was da vinci's code, I was so bored on
|
a*****i
发帖数: 4391 | 7 heh I pay for my taxes. How responsible is that. :)
【在 s*r 的大作中提到】
: love means responsibility and scarification
: you are just being indulged
:
: short
: remember
: staff
|
a*****i
发帖数: 4391 | 8 I don't really care much(I like reading about middle east issues more :).
But, heh, it was clearly a provocation from the bears.
【在 c******r 的大作中提到】
: I forgot to ask. Where do you stand on the Russia-Georgia issue?
: You seem to have read a lot of literature on this.
:
: short
: remember
: staff
|
n******t
发帖数: 4406 | 9 you do not have a choice. :)
【在 a*****i 的大作中提到】
: heh I pay for my taxes. How responsible is that. :)
|
c******r
发帖数: 2306 | 10 I see. I don't have a strong interest in middle east issues, and frankly, it
is too complicated. Sometimes I wonder, if the Middle East doesn't have
natural resources, would they be left alone and deal with their own
enlightenment instead of external surgery? Maybe their path of history would
be very different.
I still think that America is too much involved in the local dynamics in
that troubled region, to a point that America relies on their resources and
relies on intervening. Such a deep inv
【在 a*****i 的大作中提到】
: I don't really care much(I like reading about middle east issues more :).
: But, heh, it was clearly a provocation from the bears.
|
|
|
c******r
发帖数: 2306 | 11 I think love means when it is right, keep it right, when it is wrong, make
it right. True love is never based on hatred. It is based on real caring for
those behind you. A real citizen is one who monitors her/his government,
get informed, and foster social change. That is real patriotism, not
nationalism.
Love is when your government doesn't care about that diabetic woman who can'
t afford healthcare, you advocate for that healthcare. Love is when your
government misuses your country's power and
【在 a*****i 的大作中提到】
: heh I pay for my taxes. How responsible is that. :)
|
e******t
发帖数: 35 | 12 Russia only defends its interests. Russia does not like their board
surrounded by enemies, and does not forget the histories of being invaded
over centuries by their neighbors.
“West must understand Russian fears:..” said former British military
chief Sir Mike Jackson.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/08/17/do1701.xml |
a*****i
发帖数: 4391 | 13 When was it the last time Georgians invaded big bad Russia? To be honest, I
see Russia being surrounded by small countries Russians had bullied on for
hundreds of years. "Being invaded"?
【在 e******t 的大作中提到】
: Russia only defends its interests. Russia does not like their board
: surrounded by enemies, and does not forget the histories of being invaded
: over centuries by their neighbors.
: “West must understand Russian fears:..” said former British military
: chief Sir Mike Jackson.
: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/08/17/do1701.xml
|
a*****i
发帖数: 4391 | 14 All the middle east shit started with British's colonization.
And no one would give a shit about them, if Israel isn't there.
it
would
and
【在 c******r 的大作中提到】
: I see. I don't have a strong interest in middle east issues, and frankly, it
: is too complicated. Sometimes I wonder, if the Middle East doesn't have
: natural resources, would they be left alone and deal with their own
: enlightenment instead of external surgery? Maybe their path of history would
: be very different.
: I still think that America is too much involved in the local dynamics in
: that troubled region, to a point that America relies on their resources and
: relies on intervening. Such a deep inv
|
A***o
发帖数: 2783 | 15 俄国经历的最大两次入侵：拿破仑，希特勒。
印象里古代俄国是个虚弱的国家，自彼得大帝以后开始扩张，一直到西方
遇到法国或者德国，东方遇到日本为止。
俄国担心的并不是Georgia的入侵，而是更西方的入侵，再说Georgia曾经是
俄帝国的一部分，即使现在独立了，它也仍然需要被俄国控制。
Anyway，大帝国似乎都有内在的扩张特性，什么意识形态都不能掩盖，一直
到地理障碍或者碰到另一个帝国。
I
【在 a*****i 的大作中提到】
: When was it the last time Georgians invaded big bad Russia? To be honest, I
: see Russia being surrounded by small countries Russians had bullied on for
: hundreds of years. "Being invaded"?
|
c******r
发帖数: 2306 | 16 俄国以前的确遭人入侵，但是那都是强悍的大国。这些俄国周围的小国，之所以有什么
种族民族问题，本身就是俄国bully的结果。俄国把本来不属于它的利益说成是天经地
义的东西，本来就是不可理解的。
俄国怕西方入侵。这更可笑的。西方谁要入侵它俄国？欧盟？欧盟也就是一个虚拟实体
，关键问题上，比如这次对待俄国上，也就是一个泡沫，还是有美国作为依靠以后的胆
量。
美国？开玩笑，美国赤字累累，经济困境，疲于征战。
俄国担心的不是什么领土的安全，而是他们不愿意失去他们过去的那种bully around的
条件。所以他们视民主东扩为洪水猛兽，因为这一政治军事联合起来的民主东扩将彻底
瓦解俄罗斯在东欧地区继续霸权的美梦，让俄国真的变成一个只能维护主权的主权国家
。换句话说，也就是民主东扩没有威胁到俄国的主权和领土完整。反而是俄国为了苟延残踹，死不
放弃本不属于自己的东西。
俄国真的再次崛起了吗，我觉得这话说得起吗是太早。论经济实力，它从来就不行，它从来就是一个野蛮的靠军事力量征服效果的霸权。 现在它可以用自然资源来提着裤子，可是它的综合实力是不行的。现在中国印度南美纷纷崛起，综合性的崛起，而俄国却是人口减
【在 a*****i 的大作中提到】
: When was it the last time Georgians invaded big bad Russia? To be honest, I
: see Russia being surrounded by small countries Russians had bullied on for
: hundreds of years. "Being invaded"?
|
e******t
发帖数: 35 | 17 【死不放弃本不属于自己的东西。】
Through out history,if you can take it and keep it for a while, then it
belongs you.
The Moscow justification for its intervention in Georgia is same as Nato's
on its military action years ago over Kosovo - prevention of humanitarian
disaster - of ethnic cleansing.
What would China do if its neighbors, say Vietnam, starting doing terrible
things to its ethnic Chinese population? |
A***o
发帖数: 2783 | 18 外交部发言人会呼吁侨民遵守所在国的法律，中国将奉行不干涉别国内政的
政策。几年前印尼发生过类似事件了，有人解释说那时候海军还狠面，没有
远洋作战能力。
发信人: eastwest (ew), 信区: America
标 题: Re: This is (part of) why I love this country.
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue Sep 9 01:57:37 2008)
What would China do if its neighbors, say Vietnam, starting doing terrible
things to its ethnic Chinese population? |
m******t
发帖数: 2416 | 19
"And no one would give a shit about them, if _oil_ isn't there."
There, fixed it for ya.
【在 a*****i 的大作中提到】
: All the middle east shit started with British's colonization.
: And no one would give a shit about them, if Israel isn't there.
:
: it
: would
: and
|
m******t
发帖数: 2416 | 20 Ethnic Chinese != Chinese nationals.
The Chinese government has a mandate to protect its
citizens, but not citizens of other countries who
happen to be ethnic Chinese.
【在 A***o 的大作中提到】
: 外交部发言人会呼吁侨民遵守所在国的法律，中国将奉行不干涉别国内政的
: 政策。几年前印尼发生过类似事件了，有人解释说那时候海军还狠面，没有
: 远洋作战能力。
: 发信人: eastwest (ew), 信区: America
: 标 题: Re: This is (part of) why I love this country.
: 发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue Sep 9 01:57:37 2008)
: What would China do if its neighbors, say Vietnam, starting doing terrible
: things to its ethnic Chinese population?
|
|
|
A***o
发帖数: 2783 | 21 偶同意，政府是应该只管本国公民。不过海外瞧胞们因祖国强大了，脸上就
发光了，就没人敢歧视了的说法随处可见，所以来个海军不济的理由才能说
得通。
中国是移民输出大国，军力又不强，有可能率先找到这个问题的答案。历史
上日不落帝国也是移民输出，军力也够强，采用的办法是直接管理殖民地，
当然最后是被殖民地打败。中国军力强了是否能走这条老路也说不定。:)
【在 m******t 的大作中提到】
: Ethnic Chinese != Chinese nationals.
: The Chinese government has a mandate to protect its
: citizens, but not citizens of other countries who
: happen to be ethnic Chinese.
|
m******t
发帖数: 2416 | 22
Well, migration != colonization. 8-)
【在 A***o 的大作中提到】
: 偶同意，政府是应该只管本国公民。不过海外瞧胞们因祖国强大了，脸上就
: 发光了，就没人敢歧视了的说法随处可见，所以来个海军不济的理由才能说
: 得通。
: 中国是移民输出大国，军力又不强，有可能率先找到这个问题的答案。历史
: 上日不落帝国也是移民输出，军力也够强，采用的办法是直接管理殖民地，
: 当然最后是被殖民地打败。中国军力强了是否能走这条老路也说不定。:)
|
A***o
发帖数: 2783 | 23
那当然那当然，偶知道那是胡椒盲肠。不过老英跑到印度，印度支那的时候，
当地原来是有政府的，甚至在北美，印第安人也组成部落联盟跟英国人签条约，
当然条约都成了废纸那是另回事情。:)
以前似乎看到有人说俄国人对中国人涌入西伯利亚感到恐惧，当然了，真打
仗两家都不敢，但是情况似乎也有可比的地方。:)
【在 m******t 的大作中提到】
:
: Well, migration != colonization. 8-)
|
c******r
发帖数: 2306 | 24 Indeed, the Kremlin did use the same reason to intervene in South Ossetia.
However, are you saying that both South Ossetia and Kosovo are equally "
ethnic cleansing"? So far, only Russia regards what happened in South
Ossetia as ethnic cleansing. What really happened was Russia creating an
impression of ethnic cleansing by encouraging their own bonds within South
Ossetia to disrupt Georgia's territorial integrity, and then arbitrarily
fingerpoint at Georgia so that their long-planned operation c
【在 e******t 的大作中提到】
: 【死不放弃本不属于自己的东西。】
: Through out history,if you can take it and keep it for a while, then it
: belongs you.
: The Moscow justification for its intervention in Georgia is same as Nato's
: on its military action years ago over Kosovo - prevention of humanitarian
: disaster - of ethnic cleansing.
: What would China do if its neighbors, say Vietnam, starting doing terrible
: things to its ethnic Chinese population?
|
c******r
发帖数: 2306 | 25 Well, that's true.
The Brits created all these problems in the Middle East. When their empire
was exhausted after WWII, they left behind a terrible dynamics. The American
order had no choice but to build an order on top of what's already there.
If the Middle East had only human rights violations and torture, but no oil,
man, they'd end up like Darfur. NOBODY would be that generous to send any
Western young man to fight for these countries' freedom. They are welcome to
do what they want to their
【在 m******t 的大作中提到】
:
: Well, migration != colonization. 8-)
|
e******t
发帖数: 35 | 26 It may not matter whether there is real an ethnic cleansing in South Ossetia
or Russia cares their people.
The point is that West must understand Russian fears, which are real and
historic, and fears born out of 25,000,000 war dead.
One of West’s fears is that one day Russia may suddenly cut off their gas
lines as Russia did to their neighbor not long ago. |
c******r
发帖数: 2306 | 27 okay, now we are talking about something important, hehe.
The West doesn't understand Russian fears. That's true. I'm not arguing
about that. But what exactly is Russia fearing? The U.S. missile defense
system? Does that system have an agenda in violating Russian territorial
integrity? or does it make it less possible for Russia to bully around?
Ossetia
【在 e******t 的大作中提到】
: It may not matter whether there is real an ethnic cleansing in South Ossetia
: or Russia cares their people.
: The point is that West must understand Russian fears, which are real and
: historic, and fears born out of 25,000,000 war dead.
: One of West’s fears is that one day Russia may suddenly cut off their gas
: lines as Russia did to their neighbor not long ago.
|
e******t
发帖数: 35 | 28 For examples, NATO missile defense system deployment and NATO membership
expansion for in the east European countries are considered “strategic
military hostility and confrontation” to Russia.
NATO ignoring Russia’s concerns over Kosovo was a humiliation to Russia too.
“Putin is determined to rebuild Russia's stature, and he is being much
helped in this by the surge in energy prices. There is also evidence that
after a decade and more of decline, the Russian armed forces are starting to
rebuild
【在 c******r 的大作中提到】
: okay, now we are talking about something important, hehe.
: The West doesn't understand Russian fears. That's true. I'm not arguing
: about that. But what exactly is Russia fearing? The U.S. missile defense
: system? Does that system have an agenda in violating Russian territorial
: integrity? or does it make it less possible for Russia to bully around?
:
: Ossetia
|
c******r
发帖数: 2306 | 29 I know, I know. All you are doing is quoting what Russia said. Well, what
they said cannot be used as excuse to justify their behavior. Russia
considers NATO expansion as offensive, but NATO denies it. In other words,
it's the "I'm right" game, and it goes nowhere.
The truth is Russia has been a bully in that region for too long and it is
just not used to being a normal country. Therefore, what seems to be sense-
making for New Zealand is a "humiliation" for Russia. I wonder why the world
needs
【在 e******t 的大作中提到】
: For examples, NATO missile defense system deployment and NATO membership
: expansion for in the east European countries are considered “strategic
: military hostility and confrontation” to Russia.
: NATO ignoring Russia’s concerns over Kosovo was a humiliation to Russia too.
: “Putin is determined to rebuild Russia's stature, and he is being much
: helped in this by the surge in energy prices. There is also evidence that
: after a decade and more of decline, the Russian armed forces are starting to
: rebuild
|
