j*****7
发帖数: 10575 | 1 34
他们说，主阿，常将这粮赐给我们。
35
耶稣说，我就是生命的粮。到我这里来的，必定不饿。信我的，永远不渴。
36
只是我对你们说过，你们已经看见我，还是不信。
37
凡父所赐给我的人，必到我这里来。到我这里来的，我总不丢弃他。
38
因为我从天上降下来，不是要按自己的意思行，乃是要按那差我来者的意思行。
39
差我来者的意思，就是他所赐给我的，叫我一个也不失落，在末日却叫他复活。
40
因为我父的意思，是叫一切见子而信的人得永生。并且在末日我要叫他复活。
41
犹太人因为耶稣说，我是从天上降下来的粮，就私下议论他。
42
说，这不是约瑟的儿子耶稣吗？他的父母我们岂不认得吗？他如今怎么说，我是从天上
降下来的呢？
43
耶稣回答说，你们不要大家议论。
44
若不是差我来的父吸引人，就没有能到我这里来的。到我这里来的，在末日我要叫他复
活。
45
在先知书上写着说，他们都要蒙神的教训。凡听见父之教训又学习的，就到我这里来。
46
这不是说，有人看见过父，惟独从神来的，他看见过父。
这段貌似在讲粮的问题，其实是在讲预定拣选。整段有两个重点，一是神的拣选，二是
圣父圣子的分工
36节，耶稣说这些人明明看到还是不信
37节，说凡是被圣父拣选的，必然接受耶稣。接受耶稣的，比不被圣子丢弃
38节，圣子和圣父在救恩工作上的分工，无缝合作
39节，再次强调神拣选的有效
40节，得救的条件，只有一个，就是信基督
41-42节，犹太人依然以世俗的眼观来审视基督
44节，耶稣再次强调圣父的拣选
45节，强调拣选
46节，唯有圣子见过神。请问，那些所谓“耶和华见证人会”的，你以为你能“见证”
圣父么？
关于预定的问题，如果看五要点，那么这段经文涵盖了第三和第五
全然败坏
无条件的拣选
有限的代赎
不可抗拒的恩典
圣徒恆忍蒙保守 | w*******e
发帖数: 6802 | 2 40 因为我父的意思，是叫一切见子而信的人得永生。并且在末日我要叫他复活。
40节，得救的条件，只有一个，就是信基督。
这节经文是不是可以看作著名的经文John 3:16的补充？ | w*******e
发帖数: 6802 | 3 关于预定的问题，如果看五要点，那么这段经文涵盖了第三和第五
全然败坏
无条件的拣选
有限的代赎
不可抗拒的恩典
圣徒恆忍蒙保守
----第5点在这段经文里是怎么体现的？ | l**********t
发帖数: 5754 | 4
37
凡父所赐给我的人，必到我这里来。到我这里来的，我总不丢弃他。
John Calvin's commentary
ver 37
"
In the first place, he says, that all whom the Father giveth him come to him
; by which words he means, that faith is not a thing which depends on the
will of men, so that this man and that man indiscriminately and at random
believe, but that God elects those whom he hands over, as it were, to his
Son; for when he says, that whatever is given cometh, we infer from it, that
all do not come. Again, we infer, that God works in his elect by such an
efficacy of the Holy Spirit, that not one of them falls away; for the word
give has the same meaning as if Christ had said, “Those whom the Father
hath chosen he regenerates, and gives to me, that they may obey the Gospel.”
"
39 差我来者的意思，就是他所赐给我的，叫我一个也不失落，在末日却叫他复活。
ver 39:
"That I should lose none of it.
That is, “That I should not suffer it to be taken from me or perish;” by
which he means, that he is not the guardian of our salvation for a single
day, or for a few days, but that he will take care of it to the end, so that
he will conduct us, as it were, from the commencement to the termination of
our course; and therefore he mentions the last resurrection. This promise
is highly necessary for us, who miserably groan under so great weakness of
the flesh, of which every one of us is sufficiently aware; and at every
moment, indeed, the salvation of the whole world might be ruined, were it
not that believers, supported by the hand of Christ, advance boldly to the
day of resurrection. Let this, therefore, be fixed in our minds, that Christ
has stretched out his hand to us, that he may not desert us in the midst of
the course, but that, relying on his goodness, we may boldly raise our eyes
to the last day."
【在 w*******e 的大作中提到】
: 关于预定的问题，如果看五要点，那么这段经文涵盖了第三和第五
: 全然败坏
: 无条件的拣选
: 有限的代赎
: 不可抗拒的恩典
: 圣徒恆忍蒙保守
: ----第5点在这段经文里是怎么体现的？
| w*******e
发帖数: 6802 | 5 谢谢弟兄解释。看了这段，很受鼓舞。
这里大约说的就是“一次得救，永远得救”吧？
我原本对这个概念很排斥。
但从加尔文论述的这个角度来看，倒是可以接受的。
This promise is highly necessary for us, who miserably groan under so great
weakness of
the flesh, of which every one of us is sufficiently aware; and at every
moment, indeed, the salvation of the whole world might be ruined, were it
not that believers, supported by the hand of Christ, advance boldly to the
day of resurrection. Let this, therefore, be fixed in our minds, that Christ
has stretched out his hand to us, that he may not desert us in the midst of
the course, but that, relying on his goodness, we may boldly raise our eyes
to the last day."
【在 l**********t 的大作中提到】
:
: 37
: 凡父所赐给我的人，必到我这里来。到我这里来的，我总不丢弃他。
: John Calvin's commentary
: ver 37
: "
: In the first place, he says, that all whom the Father giveth him come to him
: ; by which words he means, that faith is not a thing which depends on the
: will of men, so that this man and that man indiscriminately and at random
: believe, but that God elects those whom he hands over, as it were, to his
|
|
