C***C
发帖数: 216 | 1 1/2 no limit, first time in Edgewater Casino in Vancouver
9 players table
hero has 33, limp in $2 from mp. button player has about $500, raise or call
more hands than most of the players in the table. button raiser to $15. The
bb, a loose lady player with about $150, call. Hero call.
flop: 9 3 7 rainbow: check, check, check
turn: K, check, hero bet $20. button raise to $90
what shall i do now, call, raise or fold? | q****8
发帖数: 3281 | 2 Did he ever slow play big hands?
If no, raise or shove depending on your stack. | C***C
发帖数: 216 | 3 Sit with him for about 1 hour, I didn't see that.
BTW, hero has about $400, the button has about $500
【在 q****8 的大作中提到】
: Did he ever slow play big hands?
: If no, raise or shove depending on your stack.
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 4 call, river check call or check raise/shove depending on his size and your
read and your own image....... | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 5 he hits big on the flop too, let it go, $400 is a little too much here.
call
The
【在 C***C 的大作中提到】
: 1/2 no limit, first time in Edgewater Casino in Vancouver
: 9 players table
: hero has 33, limp in $2 from mp. button player has about $500, raise or call
: more hands than most of the players in the table. button raiser to $15. The
: bb, a loose lady player with about $150, call. Hero call.
: flop: 9 3 7 rainbow: check, check, check
: turn: K, check, hero bet $20. button raise to $90
: what shall i do now, call, raise or fold?
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 6 with his high VPIP, he'd c-bet a lot his weak/ok hands on that flop, TT, K9/
Q9s, A7, AK ...
the only times he's "wasting" his aggression and position, are when he hits
big and is counting on you two to catch up some how. betting 77/99 and
taking it down here is not "cute".
the turn K doesn't hit him, but he'd believe it's hit yours, as i assume,
your image is like normal nit chinese?
calling here is ok, but you may talk yourself into another big call or shove
on the river.
【在 C***C 的大作中提到】
: Sit with him for about 1 hour, I didn't see that.
: BTW, hero has about $400, the button has about $500
| j**y
发帖数: 7014 | 7 no brainer all-in for me, a donkey
call
The
【在 C***C 的大作中提到】
: 1/2 no limit, first time in Edgewater Casino in Vancouver
: 9 players table
: hero has 33, limp in $2 from mp. button player has about $500, raise or call
: more hands than most of the players in the table. button raiser to $15. The
: bb, a loose lady player with about $150, call. Hero call.
: flop: 9 3 7 rainbow: check, check, check
: turn: K, check, hero bet $20. button raise to $90
: what shall i do now, call, raise or fold?
| j**y
发帖数: 7014 | 8 看了老大的帖子，确认了自己是驴的事实
K9/
hits
shove
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: with his high VPIP, he'd c-bet a lot his weak/ok hands on that flop, TT, K9/
: Q9s, A7, AK ...
: the only times he's "wasting" his aggression and position, are when he hits
: big and is counting on you two to catch up some how. betting 77/99 and
: taking it down here is not "cute".
: the turn K doesn't hit him, but he'd believe it's hit yours, as i assume,
: your image is like normal nit chinese?
: calling here is ok, but you may talk yourself into another big call or shove
: on the river.
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 9 Very lihai! 学习了！
赞＂your image is like normal nit chinese?＂
K9/
★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.8
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: with his high VPIP, he'd c-bet a lot his weak/ok hands on that flop, TT, K9/
: Q9s, A7, AK ...
: the only times he's "wasting" his aggression and position, are when he hits
: big and is counting on you two to catch up some how. betting 77/99 and
: taking it down here is not "cute".
: the turn K doesn't hit him, but he'd believe it's hit yours, as i assume,
: your image is like normal nit chinese?
: calling here is ok, but you may talk yourself into another big call or shove
: on the river.
| C***C
发帖数: 216 | 10
K9/
hits
you are right. hero do like a normal nit chinese.
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: with his high VPIP, he'd c-bet a lot his weak/ok hands on that flop, TT, K9/
: Q9s, A7, AK ...
: the only times he's "wasting" his aggression and position, are when he hits
: big and is counting on you two to catch up some how. betting 77/99 and
: taking it down here is not "cute".
: the turn K doesn't hit him, but he'd believe it's hit yours, as i assume,
: your image is like normal nit chinese?
: calling here is ok, but you may talk yourself into another big call or shove
: on the river.
| | | C***C
发帖数: 216 | 11 经常打6/12 limit, 很少打 no limit.
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: Very lihai! 学习了！
: 赞＂your image is like normal nit chinese?＂
:
: K9/
: ★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.8
| p******a
发帖数: 975 | 12 I will never fold here. Call or raise-shove are both fine.
He raise preflop, check flop, and raise turn. His value range includes (99,
77,KK,
AK,KQ,AA). Assume he go all-in with AK and KQ half time, and fold half time,
there are 9 combinations that beats you, 16 combinations you beat.So, that'
s definitely a +ev shove. Of course, he can also have some 97s type hands in
his range, which make shoving even more profitable.
Considering that he was last to act on the flop and he checked, he did not
check for check raise. So, he is more likely to have AK, KQ type hand than
99,77. So, I don't hate calling turn and check shove river.
You should never ever limp with 33 preflop,and hit a set and fold to a raise
.
If you even fold when you hit a set, then you should never play 33 in the
first place. | W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 13 老实说， 这牌你要是turn fold 了， 这牌没法打了。I will call and at least
call a reasonable bet on the river. If he bets smallish river, I would
raise.
★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.8
【在 C***C 的大作中提到】
: 经常打6/12 limit, 很少打 no limit.
| C***C
发帖数: 216 | 14 " 这牌没法打了"
是啥意思？
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: 老实说， 这牌你要是turn fold 了， 这牌没法打了。I will call and at least
: call a reasonable bet on the river. If he bets smallish river, I would
: raise.
:
: ★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.8
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 15 就是绝对不能fold. 他玩的牌多更说明他有2pair 的可能大。 这里你是third nuts.
比你大的只有77 99. 他是KK 的可能都很小。 call and payoff. 如果你是nit image
, reraise 就去算了。 这牌面对于一个nit，bottom set 已经是bottom range 了，
还不如用bottom set 来protect 你的turn call raise range. 让他Value town
himself.
还有， 如果river 你输了， show 个3, 和他说， bottom pair 放不下， 为后面造个
鱼的形象可以得利。
★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.8
【在 C***C 的大作中提到】
: " 这牌没法打了"
: 是啥意思？
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 16 就是就是。 同感同感！
★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.8
【在 j**y 的大作中提到】
: 看了老大的帖子，确认了自己是驴的事实
:
: K9/
: hits
: shove
| b*****t
发帖数: 52 | 17 如果是我就表现的万分痛苦，手里一副midpair.顶多有个9。犹犹豫豫的call.
鼓励对手，手里烂牌最后river以后试图bluff一个大的。或者手里是nuts check给我
show weakness希望我bluff.
call
The
【在 C***C 的大作中提到】
: 1/2 no limit, first time in Edgewater Casino in Vancouver
: 9 players table
: hero has 33, limp in $2 from mp. button player has about $500, raise or call
: more hands than most of the players in the table. button raiser to $15. The
: bb, a loose lady player with about $150, call. Hero call.
: flop: 9 3 7 rainbow: check, check, check
: turn: K, check, hero bet $20. button raise to $90
: what shall i do now, call, raise or fold?
| m**********s
发帖数: 87 | 18 "His value range includes (99,77,KK,AK,KQ,AA).
Assume he go all-in with AK and KQ half time, and fold half time,
there are 9 combinations that beats you, 16 combinations you beat.
So, that's definitely a +ev shove."
how to get the 9 and 16? | q****8
发帖数: 3281 | 19
9 and 18?
【在 m**********s 的大作中提到】
: "His value range includes (99,77,KK,AK,KQ,AA).
: Assume he go all-in with AK and KQ half time, and fold half time,
: there are 9 combinations that beats you, 16 combinations you beat.
: So, that's definitely a +ev shove."
: how to get the 9 and 16?
| C***C
发帖数: 216 | 20 实战： hero raise to $180;
button all in;
hero all in;
button show 99
hero lost all $400 | | | d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 21 一开始，玩家打牌的时候，总是对这些大的cooler印象深刻，笃信绝对牌力，往往是牌
力上到一个level比如三条或者straight之后，很难再放弃，被更大的牌给清了也只怪
自己运气不好。其实，随着经验的积累，会越来越发现，有太多太多的情况下，貌似手
上很大的牌，其实就是个bluff catcher。
即使现在还体会不了哥这话，也没关系，因为这非常正常，但是有一点需要牢记，打牌
没有绝对正确的打法，一定要有一个open mind，才能保证不断进步。
引用国内MTT大神nicky的话，什么是大牌?就是比对手牌大的牌。 | W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 22 还是老话，赢了不代表打对了， 输了不代表打错了。就算一把输了也没十么，you can
not win every single pot， 关键你有没有利用你得到的信息后来得利。他喜欢
check flop behind with nuts, 那你有没有后来check raise他的flop bet as bluff?
这牌call down 是没有错的, turn raise 可以argue，我也觉得不妥, 主要还是怕对手
差的牌fold 掉。
★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.8 | p******a
发帖数: 975 | 23 yeah, should be 9 and 18
but the conclusion is the same
【在 m**********s 的大作中提到】
: "His value range includes (99,77,KK,AK,KQ,AA).
: Assume he go all-in with AK and KQ half time, and fold half time,
: there are 9 combinations that beats you, 16 combinations you beat.
: So, that's definitely a +ev shove."
: how to get the 9 and 16?
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 24 Nicky 大神v5. 他女朋友友白富美哈
★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.8
【在 d*****0 的大作中提到】
: 一开始，玩家打牌的时候，总是对这些大的cooler印象深刻，笃信绝对牌力，往往是牌
: 力上到一个level比如三条或者straight之后，很难再放弃，被更大的牌给清了也只怪
: 自己运气不好。其实，随着经验的积累，会越来越发现，有太多太多的情况下，貌似手
: 上很大的牌，其实就是个bluff catcher。
: 即使现在还体会不了哥这话，也没关系，因为这非常正常，但是有一点需要牢记，打牌
: 没有绝对正确的打法，一定要有一个open mind，才能保证不断进步。
: 引用国内MTT大神nicky的话，什么是大牌?就是比对手牌大的牌。
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 25 具体这牌吧，拿AK/KQ在turn上打这么狠(raise big, then re-shove stack)的BTN，至
少哥在1/2里面是不多见了，除非少数比如凌晨输急眼了的不正常情况。
两对也很难，K7，79，K3，K9，37， 39里面除了79有一定可能slow play一点，其他的
不是不大会raise $15，就是flop上会开一枪。
即使是AK/KQ，90%在missed flops也会在位置上惯性c-bet，就是纯draw或者A5这种狗
屎，c-bet的概率也很高，都是相对普通1/2玩家而言，压抑不住的checked to, so
take it down right here的冲动。
真value的牌AA/KK/QQ/JJ，这flop check behind的可能性很小，俺猜你应该不会有
donk bet with trash/weak hands的形象。
所以它一定是在等你catch up，在你re-shove之前，当然，它肯定也严重低估了你的牌
，他利用这个K做文章，或者delayed bluff的可能性也几乎为零，否则他也不玩1/2了。
bottom set的威力往往在抓preflop就明着打的AA/KK之流上，flop想办法get in或者进
一步搞大，利用他扔不掉的冲动。
【在 C***C 的大作中提到】
: 实战： hero raise to $180;
: button all in;
: hero all in;
: button show 99
: hero lost all $400
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 26 牌神！
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: 具体这牌吧，拿AK/KQ在turn上打这么狠(raise big, then re-shove stack)的BTN，至
: 少哥在1/2里面是不多见了，除非少数比如凌晨输急眼了的不正常情况。
: 两对也很难，K7，79，K3，K9，37， 39里面除了79有一定可能slow play一点，其他的
: 不是不大会raise $15，就是flop上会开一枪。
: 即使是AK/KQ，90%在missed flops也会在位置上惯性c-bet，就是纯draw或者A5这种狗
: 屎，c-bet的概率也很高，都是相对普通1/2玩家而言，压抑不住的checked to, so
: take it down right here的冲动。
: 真value的牌AA/KK/QQ/JJ，这flop check behind的可能性很小，俺猜你应该不会有
: donk bet with trash/weak hands的形象。
: 所以它一定是在等你catch up，在你re-shove之前，当然，它肯定也严重低估了你的牌
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 27 料事如神！
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: 牌神！
| d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 28
求种子
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: Nicky 大神v5. 他女朋友友白富美哈
:
: ★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.8
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 29 D god knows something I don't? 同求。。。
【在 d*****0 的大作中提到】
:
: 求种子
| m**********s
发帖数: 87 | 30 分析牛叉。
这个flop和turn都没有顺子同花的可能性。比较像是三条啊。
如果我是button且有
79/K9
AA/KK/QQ/JJ/TT
AK/KQ
的话，我都会c－bet。
当然我也会c－bet即使我是99／77。
可能的例外 如果手上是QJ／JT 凑成了 gunshot straight draw and flush draw，我
会假设上家有pair Kings，然后raise
with his high VPIP, he'd c-bet a lot his weak/ok hands on that flop, TT, K9/
Q9s, A7, AK ...
the only times he's "wasting" his aggression and position, are when he hits
big and is counting on you two to catch up some how. betting 77/99 and
taking it down here is not "cute".
the turn K doesn't hit him, but he'd believe it's hit yours, as i assume,
your image is like normal nit chinese?
calling here is ok, but you may talk yourself into another big call or shove
on the river.
具体这牌吧，拿AK/KQ在turn上打这么狠(raise big, then re-shove stack)BTN，至少
哥在1/2里面是不多见了，除非少数比如凌晨输急眼了的不正常情况。
两对也很难，K7，79，K3，K9，37， 39里面除了79有一定可能slow play一点，其他的
不是不大会raise $15，就是flop上会开一枪。
即使是AK/KQ，90%在missed flops也会在位置上惯性c-bet，就是纯draw或者A5这种狗
屎，c-bet的概率也很高，都是相对普通1/2玩家而言，压抑不住checked to, so take
it down right here的冲动。
真value的牌AA/KK/QQ/JJ，这flop check behind的可能性很小，俺猜你应该不会有
donk bet with trash/weak hands的形象。
所以它一定是在等你catch up，在你re-shove之前，当然，它肯定也严重低估了你的牌
，他利用这个K做文章，或者delayed bluff的可能性也几乎为零，否则他也不玩1/2了。
bottom set的威力往往在抓preflop就明着打的AA/KK之流上，flop想办法get in或者进
一步搞大，利用他扔不掉的冲动。
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: with his high VPIP, he'd c-bet a lot his weak/ok hands on that flop, TT, K9/
: Q9s, A7, AK ...
: the only times he's "wasting" his aggression and position, are when he hits
: big and is counting on you two to catch up some how. betting 77/99 and
: taking it down here is not "cute".
: the turn K doesn't hit him, but he'd believe it's hit yours, as i assume,
: your image is like normal nit chinese?
: calling here is ok, but you may talk yourself into another big call or shove
: on the river.
| | | C***C
发帖数: 216 | 31 牌神分析的牛。自己高估了自己的set
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: 具体这牌吧，拿AK/KQ在turn上打这么狠(raise big, then re-shove stack)的BTN，至
: 少哥在1/2里面是不多见了，除非少数比如凌晨输急眼了的不正常情况。
: 两对也很难，K7，79，K3，K9，37， 39里面除了79有一定可能slow play一点，其他的
: 不是不大会raise $15，就是flop上会开一枪。
: 即使是AK/KQ，90%在missed flops也会在位置上惯性c-bet，就是纯draw或者A5这种狗
: 屎，c-bet的概率也很高，都是相对普通1/2玩家而言，压抑不住的checked to, so
: take it down right here的冲动。
: 真value的牌AA/KK/QQ/JJ，这flop check behind的可能性很小，俺猜你应该不会有
: donk bet with trash/weak hands的形象。
: 所以它一定是在等你catch up，在你re-shove之前，当然，它肯定也严重低估了你的牌
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 32 没啥，set over set这可能是扑克里面除了bad beat之外最悲的事了，不止一回的，大
家都中过招。
他turn上打点有点过，pot才不到$70，你一个waek bet，它raise到90，很多你一般的
牌比如KT/KJ之流都有可能会跑，它也就是恰好撞上了而已。
单看preflop, flop, turn的局面，这种board要扔掉一个set的确很难，扔不掉也完全
正常，但是如果咱们没有充分重视，考虑到对方前后玩法的一致性，而感觉到over set
的可能性比较大，那有些遗憾。
【在 C***C 的大作中提到】
: 牌神分析的牛。自己高估了自己的set
| j*******g
发帖数: 331 | 33 我在chicago horseshoe有一手牌，跟你的情况差不多，这个完全没办法，这种很弱的
flop有人有个overpair就会打得很aggresive. 我当时是在bb limp in with 22, one
tight player and btn limped in as well. flop 7 5 2 rainbow. 我先bet 25，
tight player called, 这时候btn raise 75，我tank了半天fold了，tight player
went all in with around 120, btn called. 后面的turn跟river都没什么帮助，
tight player show jj，btn show A7。 我觉得bottom set early position 最好还是
check在行动。如果在late position，任何人有top pair大部分都会bet，这时候可以
在make a move, 像这种小概率的牌没办法再多想，跪了就跪了。
call
The
【在 C***C 的大作中提到】
: 1/2 no limit, first time in Edgewater Casino in Vancouver
: 9 players table
: hero has 33, limp in $2 from mp. button player has about $500, raise or call
: more hands than most of the players in the table. button raiser to $15. The
: bb, a loose lady player with about $150, call. Hero call.
: flop: 9 3 7 rainbow: check, check, check
: turn: K, check, hero bet $20. button raise to $90
: what shall i do now, call, raise or fold?
| w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 34 I would call on turn,check and call big on river, reraise if opponent bet
not too big on river.
There are many hands with which opponent would bet like this, pure
bluff, straight draw with bluff, (like 5,6 is two way straight draw), two
pairs and even top pair.If you fold a set, then any time opponent bet big
you would fold.
It's like if you have pocket KK, and you would fold if opponent allin
preflop? Your encountering AA once doesn't mean your calling allin preflop
is wrong. | W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 35 by the way, edge water sucks ass. 曾经在那里的1/2 一晚输过1.2k 的飘过... 那
里的风水可能不适合我~~~~ | W********m
发帖数: 7793 | | W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 37 我在1/2牌座上用了这个经历很久，来体现我是一个gabmling degenerates 的形象~从
中得利。。
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: by the way, edge water sucks ass. 曾经在那里的1/2 一晚输过1.2k 的飘过... 那
: 里的风水可能不适合我~~~~
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 38 oh, sounds like a lucky place for me then...
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: by the way, edge water sucks ass. 曾经在那里的1/2 一晚输过1.2k 的飘过... 那
: 里的风水可能不适合我~~~~
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 39 股神very lihai~
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: oh, sounds like a lucky place for me then...
| k***n
发帖数: 849 | 40 Villain is the button, so why wouldn't he just c-bet the flop when checked
to? Wouldn't that disguise his top set more? I know online people c-bet
flops in position very high % of the time, so checking would be very
suspicious. Is live game different?
K9/
hits
shove
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: with his high VPIP, he'd c-bet a lot his weak/ok hands on that flop, TT, K9/
: Q9s, A7, AK ...
: the only times he's "wasting" his aggression and position, are when he hits
: big and is counting on you two to catch up some how. betting 77/99 and
: taking it down here is not "cute".
: the turn K doesn't hit him, but he'd believe it's hit yours, as i assume,
: your image is like normal nit chinese?
: calling here is ok, but you may talk yourself into another big call or shove
: on the river.
| | | k***n
发帖数: 849 | 41 I wouldn't sit with 200 BBs if you are mostly a limit player. That seems too
deep... If you had 50 BBs the decision would have been a lot easier hehehe
【在 C***C 的大作中提到】
: 经常打6/12 limit, 很少打 no limit.
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 42 in live, ppl tend to slow play more? as i observe.
the flop is relatively dry, BTN is afraid if he bets when checked to, 90%+
time he'll just take this small pot down, and "waste" a hard flopped top set
. after all, with his 99 (take out a lot of 9x hands), how many hands can
limp preflop and check call a reasonable bet of, say, $20? not many.
OP has this typical asian nit image as i guess, so most of time, checking is
a real indicator of weakness.
on the other hand, BTN doesn't c-bet like he "should" with tons of trash
hands, which is a strong signal of something fishy.
why does BTN like this K so much? and believes his $90 big raise has a good
chance getting called at least once? he must be assuming OP is betting for
value with a good Kx hand.
as for those 2 pair hands, chances are actually pretty low here if we take
the preflop/flop action into review.
【在 k***n 的大作中提到】
: Villain is the button, so why wouldn't he just c-bet the flop when checked
: to? Wouldn't that disguise his top set more? I know online people c-bet
: flops in position very high % of the time, so checking would be very
: suspicious. Is live game different?
:
: K9/
: hits
: shove
| k***n
发帖数: 849 | 43 Good analysis. The tip I get is I'm gonna cbet 973r flops 100% of the time
in a live game, if I ever play one :P
set
is
good
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: in live, ppl tend to slow play more? as i observe.
: the flop is relatively dry, BTN is afraid if he bets when checked to, 90%+
: time he'll just take this small pot down, and "waste" a hard flopped top set
: . after all, with his 99 (take out a lot of 9x hands), how many hands can
: limp preflop and check call a reasonable bet of, say, $20? not many.
: OP has this typical asian nit image as i guess, so most of time, checking is
: a real indicator of weakness.
: on the other hand, BTN doesn't c-bet like he "should" with tons of trash
: hands, which is a strong signal of something fishy.
: why does BTN like this K so much? and believes his $90 big raise has a good
| C***C
发帖数: 216 | 44 分析的好。
正因为他slow play at flop. I put him on AK or KQ...on the turn
set
is
good
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: in live, ppl tend to slow play more? as i observe.
: the flop is relatively dry, BTN is afraid if he bets when checked to, 90%+
: time he'll just take this small pot down, and "waste" a hard flopped top set
: . after all, with his 99 (take out a lot of 9x hands), how many hands can
: limp preflop and check call a reasonable bet of, say, $20? not many.
: OP has this typical asian nit image as i guess, so most of time, checking is
: a real indicator of weakness.
: on the other hand, BTN doesn't c-bet like he "should" with tons of trash
: hands, which is a strong signal of something fishy.
: why does BTN like this K so much? and believes his $90 big raise has a good
|
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