p****r
发帖数: 9164 | 1 how many hands do we need in hands history for 3 betting or 4 betting
stat to be meaningful?
There is very important decision to make when you face 4 betting when
holding KK, especially when you are 120BB+ deep. I think againt player whose
4 betting range is below 1.0 on a 4 betting pot, we should fold KK against
a shove if not too committed. Since AA and KK are 0.9 of top hand range,
you are drawing to chop against 4 betting from these gugys on a 4 betting
pot with KK.
I am sure you need many hands for the 4 betting stat to be
statistically meaningful. Somebody from card runner said it takes several
thousand hands for 3 betting or 4 betting stat to be meaning,but no clear
answer. I need somewhat precise answer how many hands I need for the 4
betting range stat to be meaningful, like 4k, 6k, or 8k. I have many
player's stat's 4 betting range is 0 even I have over 1k hand of them.
Got another ultimate cooler last nite, mp raise, SB ( a reg with
around 320$) 3 bet to 40, I 4 bet to 100 with KK on BB, mp folded, SB shoved
. I checked her 4 betting range is 0.9( kk or AA in her range), but just not
displined enough to fold KK in this spot and ends with paying her AA off.
She is from Germany, usually tight. so I need somewhat clear idea on how
many hands needed for 4 betting range stat to be meaningful to laydown KK.
Not too many reg on electro, so you can collect many reg's HH.
Also, for 3 betting stat, it should take less hand for it to be
meaningful. You guys know how many? my guess is something like 2-3k should
be fine.
thanks | c****1
发帖数: 457 | 2 ask winstoremm ? He might know
betting
when
whose
against | p****r
发帖数: 9164 | 3 I never fold KK in tourney as well. KK VS AA comes every 6k hand in in 9
handed game. For the tourney pay out structure, always wanna get in with KK.
For cash game , it is differnt, I think, especailly you are 150+ BB deep.
【在 c****1 的大作中提到】
: ask winstoremm ? He might know
: betting
: when
: whose
: against
| h*******s
发帖数: 3932 | 4 3bet: I feel 100 hands is enough to smell the tendency, and 200 hands stat
should get quite close to the accurate number.
4bet: i haven't got a reliable reading on this yet after maybe 18k hands.
the max number of hands i had with any player probably is around 300-400
hands, but 4bets are still so rare. any 4bet involves a 3bet first. my gut
feeling is 50 3bets probably can tell you his 4bet tendency. So if he FACEs
3bets 5%, you need about 1k hands. But to be safe you may need 2k hands.
4bet range: i don't check this stat yet since 4bet is not accurate for me.
its accuracy should be in line with 4bet.
If I see suspiciously high (but not very high) 4bet stat after 1k hands, I
may not trust it. it could be due to past luck, or maybe he's having good
luck right now.
But if I see comfortably low 4bet stat (like 1% 4bet range) after 1k hands,
I will trust it no matter if he's bluffing right now.
betting
when
whose
against
【在 p****r 的大作中提到】
: I never fold KK in tourney as well. KK VS AA comes every 6k hand in in 9
: handed game. For the tourney pay out structure, always wanna get in with KK.
: For cash game , it is differnt, I think, especailly you are 150+ BB deep.
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 5 folding KK at NL400 preflop? I don't think you can ever do that UNLESS you have specific read. Even folding AK is unacceptable sometimes~ My approach is get it in AK KK AA most of the time. You could only fold these preflop when you have a specific read which should not be too often (like a total nit, even a total nit spazz out sometimes) or the stack is deep like 200bb or more. Obviously position matters too. you 3 bet utg he goes 4 bet is a lot different from you 3 bet bb vs button/sb and he goes for a 4 bet. But you could also go above a level on this to use these image to your advantage.
Here is an example of reg spazzing.
=========================
Full Tilt Poker $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players -
Hero (BTN): $122.35
SB: $103.25
BB: $205.45
UTG: $124.20
UTG+1: $101.00
UTG+2: $132.75
MP1: $100.00
MP2: $122.80
CO: $100.00
Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is BTN with Kc Ah
6 folds, Hero raises to $3, 1 fold, BB raises to $12, Hero raises to $28, BB
raises to $205.45 all in, Hero calls $94.35 all in
Flop: ($245.20) As 5h Th (2 players - 2 are all in)
Turn: ($245.20) 6d (2 players - 2 are all in)
River: ($245.20) 5s (2 players - 2 are all in)
Final Pot: $245.20
Hero shows Kc Ah (two pair, Aces and Fives)
BB shows Ac 2s (two pair, Aces and Fives)
Hero wins $242.20
(Rake: $3.00) | p****r
发帖数: 9164 | 6
you have specific read. Even folding AK is unacceptable sometimes~ My
approach is get it in AK KK AA most of the time. You could only fold these
preflop when you have a specific read which should not be too often (like a
total nit, even a total nit spazz out sometimes) or the stack is deep like
200bb or more. Obviously position matters too. you 3 bet utg he goes 4 bet
is a lot different from you 3 bet bb vs button/sb and : he goes for a 4 bet.
But you could also go above a level on this to use these image to your
advantage.
my approach to KK is to play flop after 3/4 betting when stack size
is over 600, otherwise, get it preflop if we do not know the player and try
to get a cheap showdown. Againt certain nits, folding KK vs 4 betting is
not a big mistake.
I got a horrible run this week, got 4 times KK vs AA in one
session. I know it comes around every 6k hands, but I got 4 times in 1300
hands. I got over 20 times this month so far.
I seldom got in with AK preflop when 100 BB deep, unless it is SB
vs BB, sometimes Button vs blind. now I often fold AK preflop against 3
betting from player's 3 betting range is below 3. OOP since it is so hard to
play OOP.
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: folding KK at NL400 preflop? I don't think you can ever do that UNLESS you have specific read. Even folding AK is unacceptable sometimes~ My approach is get it in AK KK AA most of the time. You could only fold these preflop when you have a specific read which should not be too often (like a total nit, even a total nit spazz out sometimes) or the stack is deep like 200bb or more. Obviously position matters too. you 3 bet utg he goes 4 bet is a lot different from you 3 bet bb vs button/sb and he goes for a 4 bet. But you could also go above a level on this to use these image to your advantage.
: Here is an example of reg spazzing.
: =========================
: Full Tilt Poker $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players -
: Hero (BTN): $122.35
: SB: $103.25
: BB: $205.45
: UTG: $124.20
: UTG+1: $101.00
: UTG+2: $132.75
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