w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 1 In poker, there are many situation that can produce odds difference among
each side.When one side has bigger odds than other side(sides), I call it OA
( odds advantage).
Odds advantage is an objective term, it doesn't relate to players' skill.
OA是一个客观存在,不因为牌手水平的不同而改变.好比搏斗双方一个拿刀,一个空手.虽
然空手的武艺高很多,也能赢拿刀的,但正常情况下,拿刀的应该赢空手的.就是说拿刀的
具有OA.
Now I give a few examples:
1. PocketQQ vs pocket JJ:
This is the simplest OA. flop A,K,2 rainbow, a better player can bluff QQ
away with JJ.But in normal situation, QQ | c****u
发帖数: 3277 | 2 it's related to player's image. If his bluffing frequency is very very
high, it's still possible for the other party to call him down.
So with a high bluffing frequency, it's often right to make huge
value bets and they'll call you down.
Yesterday,
I bluffed a whole buyin out with 22, mid-pair called me down and won.
Then later, he just can't fold his cards and paid me back with interest.
OA
advantage can
【在 w***w 的大作中提到】
: In poker, there are many situation that can produce odds difference among
: each side.When one side has bigger odds than other side(sides), I call it OA
: ( odds advantage).
: Odds advantage is an objective term, it doesn't relate to players' skill.
: OA是一个客观存在,不因为牌手水平的不同而改变.好比搏斗双方一个拿刀,一个空手.虽
: 然空手的武艺高很多,也能赢拿刀的,但正常情况下,拿刀的应该赢空手的.就是说拿刀的
: 具有OA.
: Now I give a few examples:
: 1. PocketQQ vs pocket JJ:
: This is the simplest OA. flop A,K,2 rainbow, a better player can bluff QQ
| i********r
发帖数: 1153 | 3 Generally the more aggressive one has a better chance to take down the pot.
I think that's the spirit of this OA thing.
Because ppl rarely make big hands, thus without a read, they usually can't
stand too much pressure. The one who put in a lot of money has a better
chance to win the pot. The key here is without a read. Because as soon as
ppl realize what you are doing, they will call you down with top pair type
of hand. But before that, a thinking player probably can't call all-in with
top pair
【在 w***w 的大作中提到】
: In poker, there are many situation that can produce odds difference among
: each side.When one side has bigger odds than other side(sides), I call it OA
: ( odds advantage).
: Odds advantage is an objective term, it doesn't relate to players' skill.
: OA是一个客观存在,不因为牌手水平的不同而改变.好比搏斗双方一个拿刀,一个空手.虽
: 然空手的武艺高很多,也能赢拿刀的,但正常情况下,拿刀的应该赢空手的.就是说拿刀的
: 具有OA.
: Now I give a few examples:
: 1. PocketQQ vs pocket JJ:
: This is the simplest OA. flop A,K,2 rainbow, a better player can bluff QQ
| w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 4 We are talking about different things.
You talk about read, but I already said OA is not related to read.If you put
read or player skill in, then we are no longer talking about OA.
Image a player you never know his image, and this is his first hand. Now he
allin on a board with A, and you have pocket KK, would you call his allin?
That is his OA, even he is bluffing, you are less likely to call.
这三张桌牌的客观形式就是对他有利.至于你以后通过了解他的风格,做出一些相应调整
,可能也会call,那已经不在我的讨论范围之内.我想讨论的是,桌上牌的构成,有没有给
他一个对他有利的形势.
再举一个以前说
【在 c****u 的大作中提到】
: it's related to player's image. If his bluffing frequency is very very
: high, it's still possible for the other party to call him down.
: So with a high bluffing frequency, it's often right to make huge
: value bets and they'll call you down.
: Yesterday,
: I bluffed a whole buyin out with 22, mid-pair called me down and won.
: Then later, he just can't fold his cards and paid me back with interest.
:
: OA
: advantage can
| w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 5 You probably got the best part of OA.
When I realize the situation on a board are always advantageous to some side
(while some players know to take advantage and some don't dare), I realize
that as long as a player doesn't have nuts, there is always chance that he
can be bluffed away.
The closer his hand to nuts, the less chance he could be bluffed. And the
more you put pressure, the more chance he could be bluffed.
Now suppose you are at button, SB and BB and you all limp in. Then SB and BB ch
【在 i********r 的大作中提到】
: Generally the more aggressive one has a better chance to take down the pot.
: I think that's the spirit of this OA thing.
: Because ppl rarely make big hands, thus without a read, they usually can't
: stand too much pressure. The one who put in a lot of money has a better
: chance to win the pot. The key here is without a read. Because as soon as
: ppl realize what you are doing, they will call you down with top pair type
: of hand. But before that, a thinking player probably can't call all-in with
: top pair
| c****u
发帖数: 3277 | 6 the basic idea is not to win a pot, but win more money. It's actually fine
to be bluffed away from small pots IMO. Also, QQ can do some double
bluffs sometimes that JJ can't call. For example, QQ checks, jj bets
QQ raises, JJ has to fold. Basically, a player in this game can win 99% of
the pots and lose the key pot and lose his stack. That's the key issue of
this game IMO.
side
he
BB check,you bet 2BB, SB fold and BB call. Now on turn he check and you bet
10BB, would he call again? Even he has
【在 w***w 的大作中提到】
: You probably got the best part of OA.
: When I realize the situation on a board are always advantageous to some side
: (while some players know to take advantage and some don't dare), I realize
: that as long as a player doesn't have nuts, there is always chance that he
: can be bluffed away.
: The closer his hand to nuts, the less chance he could be bluffed. And the
: more you put pressure, the more chance he could be bluffed.
: Now suppose you are at button, SB and BB and you all limp in. Then SB and BB ch
| w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 7 I made a few examples to show there are opportunities,but those examples are not
necessarily the best way to explore these opportunites.
In example 2,one don't have to allin, if he only bet on flop and turn, also
can be profitable.
In example 3, I tend to allin.
Generally, good way to bluff, is to bluff weakness and stop when there is
strength. Good way to fight bluffing,is not lower your standard to call
, (like call with lower pair), but show weakness and let your opponent run
into your mons | c****u
发帖数: 3277 | 8 the best way against a bluff is not call, but raise, if you read a bet
as a bluff, you should raise and it's often very hard for the bluffer
to call, even the most loose player in this galaxy.
Actually there are some situations that you should try a check-raise
bluff instead of a direct bluff.
Suppose your opp is very loose and likes bluffing. If you bet 3/4 pot
as a bluff,
you may get called 1/2 of times from his bluff catching hands. However, if
you
check, induce a bluff of 75% times, known fr
【在 w***w 的大作中提到】
: I made a few examples to show there are opportunities,but those examples are not
: necessarily the best way to explore these opportunites.
: In example 2,one don't have to allin, if he only bet on flop and turn, also
: can be profitable.
: In example 3, I tend to allin.
: Generally, good way to bluff, is to bluff weakness and stop when there is
: strength. Good way to fight bluffing,is not lower your standard to call
: , (like call with lower pair), but show weakness and let your opponent run
: into your mons
| w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 9 If by read you can easily decide the bet is a bluff, then this is a bad
bluff and it matters little whether you call or reraise, anyway he won't get
you.The tough thing is that bluffs are mixed with bets with good hands, and
usually you won't be able to pick out which one is real bluff and which is
not.So when you reraise you could run into a monster and you lose more than
your win when you catch real bluffs.What I mean a good way to fight bluff,
I don't assume you can outsmart your opponent o
【在 c****u 的大作中提到】
: the best way against a bluff is not call, but raise, if you read a bet
: as a bluff, you should raise and it's often very hard for the bluffer
: to call, even the most loose player in this galaxy.
: Actually there are some situations that you should try a check-raise
: bluff instead of a direct bluff.
: Suppose your opp is very loose and likes bluffing. If you bet 3/4 pot
: as a bluff,
: you may get called 1/2 of times from his bluff catching hands. However, if
: you
: check, induce a bluff of 75% times, known fr
| c****u
发帖数: 3277 | 10 it's a matter of frequency. Suppose you suspect it's a monster hand 5%
a bluff 50%, and you only have a bluff catcher hand, certainly you should
at least call any normal sized bets. However, sometimes, your bluff catcher
can be beaten by his bluff hands, like 30%,
like bottom pair beaten by bottom pair
with better kicker. You should thus raise so that he just can't call you
down with that type of hands. If your raise gets called, or reraised,
you can be happy to fold, that happens only 5%, the o
【在 w***w 的大作中提到】
: If by read you can easily decide the bet is a bluff, then this is a bad
: bluff and it matters little whether you call or reraise, anyway he won't get
: you.The tough thing is that bluffs are mixed with bets with good hands, and
: usually you won't be able to pick out which one is real bluff and which is
: not.So when you reraise you could run into a monster and you lose more than
: your win when you catch real bluffs.What I mean a good way to fight bluff,
: I don't assume you can outsmart your opponent o
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