m*****r
发帖数: 3822 | 1 rally其实都是55开，费老发球功力短期内不会衰退，估计还能统治一两年 |
m******n
发帖数: 15691 | 2 嗯,靠这发球,至少温布尔登没啥问题
【在 m*****r 的大作中提到】
: rally其实都是55开，费老发球功力短期内不会衰退，估计还能统治一两年
|
f*******7
发帖数: 2210 | |
m*****r
发帖数: 3822 | 4 起伏是比以前大，但是打5盘的比赛还是费费胜算大
【在 f*******7 的大作中提到】
: 这个状态啊，我看半决赛就难。
|
n******r
发帖数: 1247 | 5 费老的移动比所有人还是都高一个level
【在 m*****r 的大作中提到】
: rally其实都是55开，费老发球功力短期内不会衰退，估计还能统治一两年
|
f*******7
发帖数: 2210 | 6 不是我说，他第一盘的状态真是太差了，什么球都能打丢，到了第3盘，达维也突然就
这样了，真是。。。。。。
【在 m*****r 的大作中提到】
: 起伏是比以前大，但是打5盘的比赛还是费费胜算大
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 7 I cannot disagree more, hehe.
【在 n******r 的大作中提到】
: 费老的移动比所有人还是都高一个level
|
n******r
发帖数: 1247 | 8 you will see, after this game, no one can stop him
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: I cannot disagree more, hehe.
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 9 The No.1 statistic for movement is return of service. Both Nadal
and Murray are way ahead of Federer.
【在 n******r 的大作中提到】
: you will see, after this game, no one can stop him
|
n******r
发帖数: 1247 | 10 The first sentence is a joke.
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: The No.1 statistic for movement is return of service. Both Nadal
: and Murray are way ahead of Federer.
|
|
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 11 Then please tell me what other statistic is a better indicator.
Number of aces? or maybe forehand winners? or breakpoint saved?
【在 n******r 的大作中提到】
: The first sentence is a joke.
|
n******r
发帖数: 1247 | 12 If the return of service can be the no.1 statistics of movement, why not
body weight?
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: Then please tell me what other statistic is a better indicator.
: Number of aces? or maybe forehand winners? or breakpoint saved?
|
d****r
发帖数: 1499 | 13 老费和豆子，僵尸不一样，那两个经常被别人打的两边飞奔，然后搞个神仙球，老费不
会轻易退让，就算UE多，也要坚持把自己的手感找到。工兵今天开场就在和老费拼谁快
，一阵子吧费费压得透不过起来，快得让人毛骨悚然，一发都可以被他发力回出winner
.不过从工兵和Verdasko的比赛就可以看出他更适合打三盘两胜的比赛。 |
n******r
发帖数: 1247 | 14 差距在老费知道对方即使再hot，也会有冷的时候，劳模觉得一旦自己hot了，一天都
hot了
winner
【在 d****r 的大作中提到】
: 老费和豆子，僵尸不一样，那两个经常被别人打的两边飞奔，然后搞个神仙球，老费不
: 会轻易退让，就算UE多，也要坚持把自己的手感找到。工兵今天开场就在和老费拼谁快
: ，一阵子吧费费压得透不过起来，快得让人毛骨悚然，一发都可以被他发力回出winner
: .不过从工兵和Verdasko的比赛就可以看出他更适合打三盘两胜的比赛。
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 15 Because body weight is not a tennis statistic publicly available.
Official statistics on ATP website include aces, 1st serve%, 1st serve
points won, 2nd serve points won, service games won, break points
saved, points won returning 1st serve/2nd serve, break points converted,
return games won.
【在 n******r 的大作中提到】
: If the return of service can be the no.1 statistics of movement, why not
: body weight?
|
r****x
发帖数: 3613 | 16
forced error和 ue吧，一个是对手打太好，一个是自己打太差
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: Then please tell me what other statistic is a better indicator.
: Number of aces? or maybe forehand winners? or breakpoint saved?
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 17 Davydenko's net game hasn't improved a single bit over the years, hehe.
Also his EQ is a big issue. He is 28 but is still like "hot & cold".
winner
【在 d****r 的大作中提到】
: 老费和豆子，僵尸不一样，那两个经常被别人打的两边飞奔，然后搞个神仙球，老费不
: 会轻易退让，就算UE多，也要坚持把自己的手感找到。工兵今天开场就在和老费拼谁快
: ，一阵子吧费费压得透不过起来，快得让人毛骨悚然，一发都可以被他发力回出winner
: .不过从工兵和Verdasko的比赛就可以看出他更适合打三盘两胜的比赛。
|
r****x
发帖数: 3613 | 18
有些数据没法统计，比如创造机会的好球，主动变线创造主动的球，等等。
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: Because body weight is not a tennis statistic publicly available.
: Official statistics on ATP website include aces, 1st serve%, 1st serve
: points won, 2nd serve points won, service games won, break points
: saved, points won returning 1st serve/2nd serve, break points converted,
: return games won.
|
n******r
发帖数: 1247 | 19 Then it is so sad such an importment indicator for tenis player movement is
not publicly available or otherwise measuring the player movement would be
much more straight forward.
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: Because body weight is not a tennis statistic publicly available.
: Official statistics on ATP website include aces, 1st serve%, 1st serve
: points won, 2nd serve points won, service games won, break points
: saved, points won returning 1st serve/2nd serve, break points converted,
: return games won.
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 20 I don't know if you are being sarcastic or not but being able to return
well does show the speed of a person. A typical player who has bad
movements usually have bad return of service record, like Roddick,
Soderling.
is
【在 n******r 的大作中提到】
: Then it is so sad such an importment indicator for tenis player movement is
: not publicly available or otherwise measuring the player movement would be
: much more straight forward.
|
|
|
n******r
发帖数: 1247 | 21 How about agassi who has been called the best service returner in the
history of tennis?
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: I don't know if you are being sarcastic or not but being able to return
: well does show the speed of a person. A typical player who has bad
: movements usually have bad return of service record, like Roddick,
: Soderling.
:
: is
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 22 He moves OK with great reflex.
Towards the end of his career he can no longer be called the best
service returner on the tour.
【在 n******r 的大作中提到】
: How about agassi who has been called the best service returner in the
: history of tennis?
|
n******r
发帖数: 1247 | 23 The once best returner only has OK movement. That's why I am saying the no.1
indicator is a joke. At least more people can understand the more weight
you have, the less faster you can move.
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: He moves OK with great reflex.
: Towards the end of his career he can no longer be called the best
: service returner on the tour.
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 24 But there are exceptions too. Soderling is lean but he is slow;
Clijsters is not lean but she is fast.
.1
【在 n******r 的大作中提到】
: The once best returner only has OK movement. That's why I am saying the no.1
: indicator is a joke. At least more people can understand the more weight
: you have, the less faster you can move.
|
n******r
发帖数: 1247 | 25 Ok. No joking anymore. In my mind, if movement as a skill has to be measured
, I would say by the number of "potential winners saved" (since "unforced"
error is in use, that name shouldn't be unreasonable).
I think what makes fed's opponents
mentally collapse during or even before the game (I saw desperateness in
Hewitt's eyes from the start of his game) is the moment when no matter how
much risk you take to hit the big angles, he can get them back. I believe
the way to beat fed on top of good m
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: But there are exceptions too. Soderling is lean but he is slow;
: Clijsters is not lean but she is fast.
:
: .1
|
g*****y
发帖数: 7271 | 26 First of all, you are changing one unmeasurable thing like "movement" to
another unmeasurable so-called "potential winners saved". The potential is
measured against who? Average Joe?
Second of all, movement helps both defense and offense. It does not make
much sense to only measure the saved points.
measured
he
【在 n******r 的大作中提到】
: Ok. No joking anymore. In my mind, if movement as a skill has to be measured
: , I would say by the number of "potential winners saved" (since "unforced"
: error is in use, that name shouldn't be unreasonable).
: I think what makes fed's opponents
: mentally collapse during or even before the game (I saw desperateness in
: Hewitt's eyes from the start of his game) is the moment when no matter how
: much risk you take to hit the big angles, he can get them back. I believe
: the way to beat fed on top of good m
|
n******r
发帖数: 1247 | 27
As I said since another subjective word "enforced" error is there,
potential winners is nothing unreasonable. Simple logic problem and easy to
understand. For example, for any hit Fed saves from Dev that would have been
counted as a winner for Dev and forced error for Fed if he misses, then it
is a potential winner saved. It is as "measurable" as "unforced error".
It makes much much more sense than "return service" rates. Besides, movement
performances in defense and offense are highly corelate
【在 g*****y 的大作中提到】
: First of all, you are changing one unmeasurable thing like "movement" to
: another unmeasurable so-called "potential winners saved". The potential is
: measured against who? Average Joe?
: Second of all, movement helps both defense and offense. It does not make
: much sense to only measure the saved points.
:
: measured
: he
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 28 Although you might disagree, using your criteria I still see
Nadal and Murray topping the men's tour in the "potential
winners saved" category, which corresponds to their positions
in the return of service category.
to
been
it
movement
【在 n******r 的大作中提到】
:
: As I said since another subjective word "enforced" error is there,
: potential winners is nothing unreasonable. Simple logic problem and easy to
: understand. For example, for any hit Fed saves from Dev that would have been
: counted as a winner for Dev and forced error for Fed if he misses, then it
: is a potential winner saved. It is as "measurable" as "unforced error".
: It makes much much more sense than "return service" rates. Besides, movement
: performances in defense and offense are highly corelate
|
h*******e
发帖数: 1171 | 29 我觉得接发，移动，挽救制胜分之间都不是什么一对一的线性联系，就不要用一个推另
一个了，呵呵 |
n******r
发帖数: 1247 | 30 I am not a fan of Fed. When I say his movement is one level above other
players I didn't think to defende it by measurable statistics. For example
the easiness he saves those "potential winners" can be much more mentallying
destroying to his oppents than the fact he saved the point itself.
When you brought the No.1 statistics up, I only want to show "return service
rate" is as a joke as "body weight" to indicate ones movement performance
if one believes the movement can be indicated by those pub
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: Although you might disagree, using your criteria I still see
: Nadal and Murray topping the men's tour in the "potential
: winners saved" category, which corresponds to their positions
: in the return of service category.
:
: to
: been
: it
: movement
|
|
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 31 I don't know if you track Federer's matches a lot, but nowadays
his movement is largely compromised due to aging and cannot
compete with 2005-2007. If you say Federer used to be one level
above all, I totally agree -- but not at present.
An example of that is the USOpen 2009 final. Federer was more
awkward in defending than Del Potro. Even yesterday, although
Federer used very efficient footwork, but speed restricted his
coverage. Be it 2 years ago, Davydenko wouldn't take a set from
Fed (see 20
【在 n******r 的大作中提到】
: I am not a fan of Fed. When I say his movement is one level above other
: players I didn't think to defende it by measurable statistics. For example
: the easiness he saves those "potential winners" can be much more mentallying
: destroying to his oppents than the fact he saved the point itself.
: When you brought the No.1 statistics up, I only want to show "return service
: rate" is as a joke as "body weight" to indicate ones movement performance
: if one believes the movement can be indicated by those pub
|
n******r
发帖数: 1247 | 32 I agree Fed is not as good as he was two years ago. But I also think this
deline in performance is exaggerated in many's eyes here because the fact
his performance did meet their expectation. I think his oppnents are not as
optimistic as some here in thinking their chance to beat Fed. I only see
more desperateness in Hewitt's eyes than before and Dev still collapes in
minutes after getting two consecutive wins from Fed.
Besides, Dev has improved a lot for his backhand and net skill and those a
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: I don't know if you track Federer's matches a lot, but nowadays
: his movement is largely compromised due to aging and cannot
: compete with 2005-2007. If you say Federer used to be one level
: above all, I totally agree -- but not at present.
: An example of that is the USOpen 2009 final. Federer was more
: awkward in defending than Del Potro. Even yesterday, although
: Federer used very efficient footwork, but speed restricted his
: coverage. Be it 2 years ago, Davydenko wouldn't take a set from
: Fed (see 20
|
l*******s
发帖数: 3562 | 33 I agree with you.
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: I don't know if you track Federer's matches a lot, but nowadays
: his movement is largely compromised due to aging and cannot
: compete with 2005-2007. If you say Federer used to be one level
: above all, I totally agree -- but not at present.
: An example of that is the USOpen 2009 final. Federer was more
: awkward in defending than Del Potro. Even yesterday, although
: Federer used very efficient footwork, but speed restricted his
: coverage. Be it 2 years ago, Davydenko wouldn't take a set from
: Fed (see 20
|
