d*********e
发帖数: 3835 | 1 关于以下词汇的定义，有高人可以解释一下吗？
anglation
inclination
pivot
steer
phase 1/phase 2/phase 3 |
r********7
发帖数: 229 | 2 滑完雪回来抛个砖
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6f9serXLpM&feature=g-user-
u&context=G2d21c53UCGXQYbcTJ33Znw6q5_HRYrowMAsM_Cd9Sb6U
_y-yFUb8
angulation @3'03''
inclination @ 2'59''
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tB0_wM97ocw&feature=g-user-
u&context=G244b613UCGXQYbcTJ33Znw6q5_HRYrvcPGWk4w6hT6KG
67MqH4hA
steer @1'16'' |
d*********e
发帖数: 3835 | 3 cool, thanks, how do I achieve inclination without falling off (over
inclining)
And how about those other things? |
d*********e
发帖数: 3835 | |
r********7
发帖数: 229 | 5 您是前辈牛人，小弟滑雪只是第4个雪季，不敢讲解。只是说下我的感受
inclination without falling off
我感觉如果只是inclination的话不容易把edge立的很高。要结合angulation就容易。
我好几次就是over inclination without proper angulation而向turn内侧跌倒。如果
这时候把头或者两肩往turn外侧摆一点（其实也就是加上angulation）,就不太会向
turn内侧跌倒了。
还有关于inclination VS angulation
onedge大侠去年的一个帖子我觉得非常好
http://www.mitbbs.com/article/Ski/31232877_3.html
这里面的 “小回转：全身拧转” 就是 inclination
“小回转：腰部以下拧转”就是加上了angulation
随便说说，欢迎指正
其它的就不太懂了，坐板凳等牛人讲解。
happy skiing！ |
d*********e
发帖数: 3835 | |
O****e
发帖数: 3290 | 7 谢谢提到俺，你的理解很深刻，我和你一样，喜欢瞎琢磨。要想在各种雪况，不同坡度
的情况下都能carving是相当难的，不比滑mogul容易，我甚至觉得比滑mogul还难。
【在 r********7 的大作中提到】
: 您是前辈牛人，小弟滑雪只是第4个雪季，不敢讲解。只是说下我的感受
: inclination without falling off
: 我感觉如果只是inclination的话不容易把edge立的很高。要结合angulation就容易。
: 我好几次就是over inclination without proper angulation而向turn内侧跌倒。如果
: 这时候把头或者两肩往turn外侧摆一点（其实也就是加上angulation）,就不太会向
: turn内侧跌倒了。
: 还有关于inclination VS angulation
: onedge大侠去年的一个帖子我觉得非常好
: http://www.mitbbs.com/article/Ski/31232877_3.html
: 这里面的 “小回转：全身拧转” 就是 inclination
|
O****e
发帖数: 3290 | 8 胖海绵大侠是在考大家。
【在 d*********e 的大作中提到】
: 摩拜一下大侠
|
s*******r
发帖数: 1285 | 9 The following are PSIA's definitions:
angulation - "The formation of angles between major adjacent and supportive
body segments through movement in a diagonal or lateral plane."
inclination - "Whole-body tipping, with the line of action perpendicular to
the base of support."
pivoting - "Rotating the skis or snowboard about an axis perpendicular to
the base(s)."
steering - "The act of guiding the skis or snowboard. Using muscular
movements to aid the skis through the turn."
【在 d*********e 的大作中提到】
: 关于以下词汇的定义，有高人可以解释一下吗？
: anglation
: inclination
: pivot
: steer
: phase 1/phase 2/phase 3
|
d*********e
发帖数: 3835 | 10 I really arne't that good, and don't know much about those things ... I am
here to learn
【在 O****e 的大作中提到】
: 胖海绵大侠是在考大家。
|
|
|
O****e
发帖数: 3290 | 11 我跟你一样，学习了。
【在 d*********e 的大作中提到】
: I really arne't that good, and don't know much about those things ... I am
: here to learn
|
d*********e
发帖数: 3835 | 12 能讲解一下吗？
supportive
to
【在 s*******r 的大作中提到】
: The following are PSIA's definitions:
: angulation - "The formation of angles between major adjacent and supportive
: body segments through movement in a diagonal or lateral plane."
: inclination - "Whole-body tipping, with the line of action perpendicular to
: the base of support."
: pivoting - "Rotating the skis or snowboard about an axis perpendicular to
: the base(s)."
: steering - "The act of guiding the skis or snowboard. Using muscular
: movements to aid the skis through the turn."
|
a*******r
发帖数: 3452 | 13 高深高深，重心平移（前后左右）还有（膝盖，腰部，肩部以上，。。。）扭转，都有
说道嘛。咱还在"arms front, up and down"二维控制阶段。
昨天，帮儿子上一个又老又快的缆车座位，不慎吧滑雪杆给別断了一只，从山顶下来，
被迫模仿经常看到的教练教学生方法下山：平举双臂横托一根半雪杖，一下子轻松多了
，对重心前移又有了新的体会。
看来高手比我们多几维控制手段，一个一个的来还有希望。
有学力学的给模型化一下么？或许好理解点。 |
s*******r
发帖数: 1285 | 14 angulation - 就是把所有關節都用上以便造成雪板的立刃(engaging edges) 而不過度
傾斜全身
inclination - 全身傾斜
pivoting - 在雪地上以中軸旋轉雪板 (一般就90度而已)
steering - 滑行引動雪板至新的方向
【在 d*********e 的大作中提到】
: 能讲解一下吗？
:
: supportive
: to
|
d*********e
发帖数: 3835 | 15 在雪地上以中軸旋轉雪板 ==> I suppose this is the body axis (vertical)? which
means there is an ankle twist motion at turns? which part of the turn
should it be?
And what is the difference between pivot and steer? |
O****e
发帖数: 3290 | 16 Steer may lead to pivot.
which
【在 d*********e 的大作中提到】
: 在雪地上以中軸旋轉雪板 ==> I suppose this is the body axis (vertical)? which
: means there is an ankle twist motion at turns? which part of the turn
: should it be?
: And what is the difference between pivot and steer?
|
d*********e
发帖数: 3835 | 17 so bare with me, are those below correct statements?
steer = skis turn by themselve
pivot = skis turned by skier |
O****e
发帖数: 3290 | 18 I am not sure these are accurate statements.
My understanding: pivot is mostly or is supposed to be the result of
steering which is initiated by the skier. But, it can be the result of
anything a crazy skier can do.
A skier can achieve steering by simply engaging the edge or by actively
turning his feet. Normally, pivot is the result of turning feet. Engaging
edge in general will not lead to pivot. So, it is correct to say steering
may or may not lead to pivot.
【在 d*********e 的大作中提到】
: so bare with me, are those below correct statements?
: steer = skis turn by themselve
: pivot = skis turned by skier
|
d*********e
发帖数: 3835 | 19 then what is the relationship between those two? or are they even related (
remotely?) |
B*N
发帖数: 147 | 20 [from pmts forum, by HeluvaSkier (a video of his skiing: http://vimeo.com/33632516)]
===================
Man... there seems to be some confusion. Let me clear it up for everyone.
This is really simple to understand.
It is an expanded version of the following variables:
Steering = variable 's'
Edging = variable 'e'
Pressure = variable 'p'
Balance = variable 'b'
SO you have:
s + e + p + b = Skiing [See its easy, not so hard to understand, and very
straight forward...]
Let's expand this with some variables though (we don't want to be vague...
but of course this is OVERLY simplified):
Within 's' there is:
Rotary = rt
Pivoting = pvt
Steering angle = sa
Guiding = g
Drifting = d
Sliding = sld
Slipping = slp
Within 'e' there is:
Inclindation = i
Counter = c
Hip Angulation = ha
Knee Angulation = ka
Spine Angulation = sa
Banking = bk
Cross Over = co
Cross Under = cu
Cross Through = ct
Within 'p' there is:
Up-unweighting = uuw
Down-unweighting = duw
Extension = ex
Retraction = rct
Terrain-unweighting = tuw
Rebound-unweighting = ruw
Pressure Control = pc
Within 'b' there is:
Stance = st
Fore = for
Aft = aft
Lateral = lat
Weighting = wt
Blocking = bl
Anticipation = ant
So it is still pretty simple really... A, B, C, ... Z ... AD variables
indicate varied amounts of each skill:
s = A(rt) + B(pvt) + C(sa) + D(g) + E(d) + F(sld) + G(slp)
e = H(i) + I(c) + J(ha) + K(ka) + L(sa) + M(bk) + N(co) + O(cu) + P(ct)
p = Q(uuw) + R(duw) + S(ex) + T(rct) + U(tuw) + V(ruw) + W(pc)
b = X(st) + Y(for) + Z(aft) + AA(lat) + AB(wt) + AC(bl) + AD(ant)
So expanded we have:
Skiing = [A(rt) + B(pvt) + C(sa) + D(g) + E(d) + F(sld) + G(slp)] + [H(i) +
I(c) + J(ha) + K(ka) + L(sa) + M(bk) + N(co) + O(cu) + P(ct)] + [Q(uuw) + R(
duw) + S(ex) + T(rct) + U(tuw) + V(ruw) + W(pc)] + [X(st) + Y(for) + Z(aft)
+ AA(lat) + AB(wt) + AC(bl) + AD(ant)]
Of course this is also a variable that changes depending on where you are in
four different phases of the turn… So, simplistically speaking you get:
Skiing = [f(Preparation) = [A(rt) + B(pvt) + C(sa) + D(g) + E(d) + F(sld) +
G(slp)] + [H(i) + I(c) + J(ha) + K(ka) + L(sa) + M(bk) + N(co) + O(cu) + P(
ct)] + [Q(uuw) + R(duw) + S(ex) + T(rct) + U(tuw) + V(ruw) + W(pc)] + [X(st)
+ Y(for) + Z(aft) + AA(lat) + AB(wt) + AC(bl) + AD(ant)]] + [f(Initiation)
= [A(rt) + B(pvt) + C(sa) + D(g) + E(d) + F(sld) + G(slp)] + [H(i) + I(c) +
J(ha) + K(ka) + L(sa) + M(bk) + N(co) + O(cu) + P(ct)] + [Q(uuw) + R(duw) +
S(ex) + T(rct) + U(tuw) + V(ruw) + W(pc)] + [X(st) + Y(for) + Z(aft) + AA(
lat) + AB(wt) + AC(bl) + AD(ant)]] + [f(Control) = [A(rt) + B(pvt) + C(sa) +
D(g) + E(d) + F(sld) + G(slp)] + [H(i) + I(c) + J(ha) + K(ka) + L(sa) + M(
bk) + N(co) + O(cu) + P(ct)] + [Q(uuw) + R(duw) + S(ex) + T(rct) + U(tuw) +
V(ruw) + W(pc)] + [X(st) + Y(for) + Z(aft) + AA(lat) + AB(wt) + AC(bl) + AD(
ant)]] + [f(Finish) = [A(rt) + B(pvt) + C(sa) + D(g) + E(d) + F(sld) + G(slp
)] + [H(i) + I(c) + J(ha) + K(ka) + L(sa) + M(bk) + N(co) + O(cu) + P(ct)] +
[Q(uuw) + R(duw) + S(ex) + T(rct) + U(tuw) + V(ruw) + W(pc)] + [X(st) + Y(
for) + Z(aft) + AA(lat) + AB(wt) + AC(bl) + AD(ant)]]
Don't forget to adjust for conditions and terrain though - which will adjust
the entire turn in every phase to varying degrees...
Skiing = F1[Conditions] * F1[Terrain] * [f(Preparation) = [A(rt) + B(pvt) +
C(sa) + D(g) + E(d) + F(sld) + G(slp)] + [H(i) + I(c) + J(ha) + K(ka) + L(sa
) + M(bk) + N(co) + O(cu) + P(ct)] + [Q(uuw) + R(duw) + S(ex) + T(rct) + U(
tuw) + V(ruw) + W(pc)] + [X(st) + Y(for) + Z(aft) + AA(lat) + AB(wt) + AC(bl
) + AD(ant)]] + F2[Conditions] * F2[Terrain] * [f(Initiation) = [A(rt) + B(
pvt) + C(sa) + D(g) + E(d) + F(sld) + G(slp)] + [H(i) + I(c) + J(ha) + K(ka)
+ L(sa) + M(bk) + N(co) + O(cu) + P(ct)] + [Q(uuw) + R(duw) + S(ex) + T(rct
) + U(tuw) + V(ruw) + W(pc)] + [X(st) + Y(for) + Z(aft) + AA(lat) + AB(wt) +
AC(bl) + AD(ant)]] + F3[Conditions] * F3[Terrain] * [f(Control) = [A(rt) +
B(pvt) + C(sa) + D(g) + E(d) + F(sld) + G(slp)] + [H(i) + I(c) + J(ha) + K(
ka) + L(sa) + M(bk) + N(co) + O(cu) + P(ct)] + [Q(uuw) + R(duw) + S(ex) + T(
rct) + U(tuw) + V(ruw) + W(pc)] + [X(st) + Y(for) + Z(aft) + AA(lat) + AB(wt
) + AC(bl) + AD(ant)]] + F4[Conditions] * F4[Terrain] * [f(Finish) = [A(rt)
+ B(pvt) + C(sa) + D(g) + E(d) + F(sld) + G(slp)] + [H(i) + I(c) + J(ha) + K
(ka) + L(sa) + M(bk) + N(co) + O(cu) + P(ct)] + [Q(uuw) + R(duw) + S(ex) + T
(rct) + U(tuw) + V(ruw) + W(pc)] + [X(st) + Y(for) + Z(aft) + AA(lat) + AB(
wt) + AC(bl) + AD(ant)]]
The perfect turn [no connection to "The Perfect Turn"] is simply the proper
blending of the above skills for the conditions and terrain one is skiing.
If you want to improve - simply correct one of those skills. Its that easy.
...and only 989 words... |
|
|
d*********e
发帖数: 3835 | 21 how about some PED, Blvd Afred Nobel ;) |
d*********e
发帖数: 3835 | 22 I still don't find myself pivot very much on a normal run, most of the time
I pivot to bring the skis cross to brake, or on mogul which is to brake also
. |
d*********e
发帖数: 3835 | 23 And I still don't get that steering ... I mean, what is the body position/
motion for steering? |
r********7
发帖数: 229 | 24 上面的解释都非常全了。这里看到一个关于pivot的video，说不定有用？
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=gikhnEOqGrw&list=FLSfSi3GQ99yjE0uudHExGCg&index=1&feature=
plpp_video
我也和胖海绵一样，很少用到pivot。我觉得pivot就是为了过门，或者是减速
吧？ |
d*********e
发帖数: 3835 | 25 following up on this, what is steering, I still don't understand ... |
O****e
发帖数: 3290 | 26 我觉得不要太focus on 是否pivot了是否steering了，应该把注意力放在重心的flow以
及左右转换是否到位上。一旦感觉顺了，小回转就难免不会pivot，没有脚initiate的
steering，也很难快速的转换。
【在 d*********e 的大作中提到】
: And I still don't get that steering ... I mean, what is the body position/
: motion for steering?
|
d*********e
发帖数: 3835 | 27 我其实就是土八路想学习一下理论，要不一问三不知很丢人的 |
O****e
发帖数: 3290 | 28 嗨，原来是这样，那我也是土八路。
【在 d*********e 的大作中提到】
: 我其实就是土八路想学习一下理论，要不一问三不知很丢人的
|
d*********e
发帖数: 3835 | 29 昨天被人问看看有什么问题，我傻了，挺好的呀。。。人家汗了 |
g**********y
发帖数: 14569 | 30 胖海绵，你要很真诚地看着她的眼睛说：挺好的。。。人家肯定就不汗了。
【在 d*********e 的大作中提到】
: 昨天被人问看看有什么问题，我傻了，挺好的呀。。。人家汗了
|
|
|
d*********e
发帖数: 3835 | |
