g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 1 说得很实在，大家可以看看。
http://blog.appfog.com/node-js-is-taking-over-the-enterprise-wh
I started my career in the late 1990's, in a wave of young Java guys who
were seizing enterprise space from C/C++ and midrange/mainframe languages.
Having been on the other side of that coin myself, I've always looked over
my shoulder for the next wave creeping up behind me. When the Rails hype
exploded 6-7 years ago, I started using Ruby in my personal projects. When
Google hired Guido van Rossum and got behind Python in a big way, I started
looking for excuses to sneak that language into my company. Also, while I
mostly work on the back-end professionally, I've maintained enough of other
people's JavaScript code to build a secondary skillset in that area.
So I keep myself (and my resume!) prepared for any of these languages to "
take over the enterprise", like the Java wave that brought me here. However,
it just doesn't work that way. Rails carved out a niche for itself, but
nobody *fears* Ruby anymore. Its good ideas were quickly copied by everyone
else, and its hype settled down. The early cloud work that Google did with
Python was eventually adapted to Java-based offerings. As the author hints
at here, the core concepts in Node.js are already being co-opted in the
enterprise Java world too (e.g. Scala, JBoss Netty, Apache MINA, etc).
The consistent real world pattern is that "community" languages produce
exciting trends, and then the "corporate" languages (i.e. Java and .NET)
absorb them. There are a few reasons for this:
[1] INDUSTRY MOMENTUM: I would wager that total worldwide investment in Java
and .NET over the past 15 years has easily reached the multi-**trillion**
dollar range. Given the explosive growth in IT that started in the 1990's,
there has probably been investment in these two platforms than in all
previous languages combined. I don't think these two platforms will last
forever, but there is literally no precedent for guessing how long it will
take that kind of staggering momentum to wane.
[2] DEVELOPER MOMENTUM: With most jobs, it's usually pretty easy to "sneak
in" another language for small tasks, to get it on your resume as a
secondary skillset. However, until you have extensively worked with it as
your primary tool, you will rightfully be seen as junior-level with the
secondary language.
To be blunt about it, senior-level Java developers generally make tens of
thousands of dollars a year more than junior-level "dynamic" language devs.
So why would any enterprise developer *voluntarily* slash their job market
leverage, by switching their primary platform before the need was clearly
inevitable? This is not the kind of move that most people make when they
reach their 30's, start families, etc. Moreover, what if you make the wrong
bet? If I had made a professional shift toward Ruby during the 2006 wave of
Rails hype, my enterprise career might NEVER have reached its current level.
Because dramatic career change is prohibitive, the inclination is to borrow
cool concepts and apply them incrementally in your current career path. I
can use Groovy instead of Ruby, Scala or Netty instead of Node.js, and my
resume looks more coherent because these things are considered part of the
Java ecosystem.
[3] ECOSYSTEMS ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN LANGUAGES: As a 15-year Java veteran,
I will freely admit that even I find it painful to write Java code. The
effort needed to simply read the contents of a file is staggering compared
to other languages. However, the wider "ecosystem" around a language is more
important than the language itself!
The Java world figured out packaging and dependency-management standards
over a decade ago, while useful Ruby tools (i.e. RVM and Bundler) emerged
recently and seem inspired by Maven. The closest thing that Python has to an
enterprise-class persistence framework (i.e. SQLAlchemy) resembles the
state of Hibernate from five years ago. Etc, etc, etc... I'm not sure if an
ESB solution isn't based on Java or .NET even *exists*.
"Community" languages are awesome for prototyping cool programming concepts
(e.g. functional style, asynchronous event-based logic, etc). However, the "
corporate" languages have ecosystems better geared toward the types of
issues found in the enterprise domain. The corporate side has been good at
copying the community (e.g. Groovy, Scala, etc), but the community side is
less equipped to copy the enterprise stuff, because a lot of those guys don'
t have experience dealing with those issues. What Luc suggests here, that
you can take a front-end AJAX guy and magically declare him a back-end
enterprise guy overnight, is naive to the point of being flatly ridiculous.
The programming language may be the same, but the domains are *worlds* apart
. Frankly, it's easier to learn a new language than a new domain.
Admittedly, many of these issues are mitigated through PaaS hosting such as
AppFog. However, I can't help but point out that "the cloud" was barely even
a novelty in the enterprise world, until these providers all started
supporting Java. :) The industry and developer momentum that I talked about
are just too great. | k**********g
发帖数: 989 | | c****3
发帖数: 10787 | 3 IT的终极目标还是做出象人这样可以自我思考自我学习的机器，从这个目标讲，各种编
程语言都是中间的过渡工具，最后都要进垃圾桶的。
对个人来讲，如果是以打工做技术为终极目标，还是挑那种语言，最容易找工作，工资
最高，对自己现在和未来最有利。
如果不是以打工为终极目标，是以自己干为目标，那么语言就是工具，找雇人成本最低
，又能完成任务的，这样可以实现利益最大化
started
other
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: 说得很实在，大家可以看看。
: http://blog.appfog.com/node-js-is-taking-over-the-enterprise-wh
: I started my career in the late 1990's, in a wave of young Java guys who
: were seizing enterprise space from C/C++ and midrange/mainframe languages.
: Having been on the other side of that coin myself, I've always looked over
: my shoulder for the next wave creeping up behind me. When the Rails hype
: exploded 6-7 years ago, I started using Ruby in my personal projects. When
: Google hired Guido van Rossum and got behind Python in a big way, I started
: looking for excuses to sneak that language into my company. Also, while I
: mostly work on the back-end professionally, I've maintained enough of other
| P********l
发帖数: 452 | 4 还能说得更无聊吗？
你还不如说：zhaoce,给你两万刀，把春运那点玩意给我整出来．剩下的都是你的． 多
爽！
【在 c****3 的大作中提到】
: IT的终极目标还是做出象人这样可以自我思考自我学习的机器，从这个目标讲，各种编
: 程语言都是中间的过渡工具，最后都要进垃圾桶的。
: 对个人来讲，如果是以打工做技术为终极目标，还是挑那种语言，最容易找工作，工资
: 最高，对自己现在和未来最有利。
: 如果不是以打工为终极目标，是以自己干为目标，那么语言就是工具，找雇人成本最低
: ，又能完成任务的，这样可以实现利益最大化
:
: started
: other
| c****3
发帖数: 10787 | 5 可惜是很多人不明白。语言之争放到大的方面，纯属生态圈的利益之争。
就像java做的那点东西，C#,.net也都能做，可能大系统上C#,.net不方便，可是大部分
应用是到不了这个层面。具体用什么语言好，要看你的利益在哪里，是在微软的生态圈
，还是在java生态圈。
对个人，其实都没有任何关系，争来争去，也不能让你的生态圈获胜，还是想办法涨工
资，或自己做老板，才是正途
【在 P********l 的大作中提到】
: 还能说得更无聊吗？
: 你还不如说：zhaoce,给你两万刀，把春运那点玩意给我整出来．剩下的都是你的． 多
: 爽！
| m*******l
发帖数: 12782 | 6 大牛说的好
【在 c****3 的大作中提到】
: 可惜是很多人不明白。语言之争放到大的方面，纯属生态圈的利益之争。
: 就像java做的那点东西，C#,.net也都能做，可能大系统上C#,.net不方便，可是大部分
: 应用是到不了这个层面。具体用什么语言好，要看你的利益在哪里，是在微软的生态圈
: ，还是在java生态圈。
: 对个人，其实都没有任何关系，争来争去，也不能让你的生态圈获胜，还是想办法涨工
: 资，或自己做老板，才是正途
| l*********s
发帖数: 5409 | 7 That is why ppls keep pumping the language they know well and dumping the
languages they can get heads around, even though very few are actually in
the position to decide which languages to use.
If makes them feel good, but it hardly matters in reality.
【在 c****3 的大作中提到】
: 可惜是很多人不明白。语言之争放到大的方面，纯属生态圈的利益之争。
: 就像java做的那点东西，C#,.net也都能做，可能大系统上C#,.net不方便，可是大部分
: 应用是到不了这个层面。具体用什么语言好，要看你的利益在哪里，是在微软的生态圈
: ，还是在java生态圈。
: 对个人，其实都没有任何关系，争来争去，也不能让你的生态圈获胜，还是想办法涨工
: 资，或自己做老板，才是正途
| z****e
发帖数: 54598 | 8 做这么大，只出两万刀，太少了，这个只够一个ibm appserver的licence用一年
没法搞，铁老大就出这点钱搞系统，不行的，魏老师要是愿意接这单
让给他了
【在 P********l 的大作中提到】
: 还能说得更无聊吗？
: 你还不如说：zhaoce,给你两万刀，把春运那点玩意给我整出来．剩下的都是你的． 多
: 爽！
| b******0
发帖数: 101 | 9 忠恳。严重同意！
【在 c****3 的大作中提到】
: 可惜是很多人不明白。语言之争放到大的方面，纯属生态圈的利益之争。
: 就像java做的那点东西，C#,.net也都能做，可能大系统上C#,.net不方便，可是大部分
: 应用是到不了这个层面。具体用什么语言好，要看你的利益在哪里，是在微软的生态圈
: ，还是在java生态圈。
: 对个人，其实都没有任何关系，争来争去，也不能让你的生态圈获胜，还是想办法涨工
: 资，或自己做老板，才是正途
|
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