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Programming版 - 读Bjarne Stroustrup写得The C++ programming language 是不是经常有不知所谓的感觉。
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相关话题的讨论汇总
话题: c++话题: language话题: java话题: coders话题: doesn
进入Programming版参与讨论
1 (共1页)
m****r
发帖数: 51
1
读Bjarne Stroustrup写得The C++ programming language 是不是经常有不知所谓的
感觉。水平该怎么提高呢?
N***m
发帖数: 4460
2
那就使劲地看,可劲的看,直到看懂。

【在 m****r 的大作中提到】
: 读Bjarne Stroustrup写得The C++ programming language 是不是经常有不知所谓的
: 感觉。水平该怎么提高呢?

m****r
发帖数: 51
3
就不要取笑了,已经很懊恼了。
写C++也有几年了,想系统提高一下。是不是这本书本身很晦涩! 还是本人学习方法不
对,实在想请教一下。

【在 N***m 的大作中提到】
: 那就使劲地看,可劲的看,直到看懂。
r*********r
发帖数: 3195
4
这本书其实是写给 language designer level 的人看的,
至少要学过点 compiler, os, PL 之类的才知道他想要说什么.
如果你自己设计过一个小编程语言的话, 就更能 appreciate 他为什么
花那么大力气设计这么复杂的一个语言.
a****l
发帖数: 8211
5
没这么高深吧?这本书是写的好,基本上是做标准看的,那也是没办法,谁让这书是语言的
原作者写的呢?不过一般人也应该是很容易看懂的,看不懂的实在是有问题.

【在 r*********r 的大作中提到】
: 这本书其实是写给 language designer level 的人看的,
: 至少要学过点 compiler, os, PL 之类的才知道他想要说什么.
: 如果你自己设计过一个小编程语言的话, 就更能 appreciate 他为什么
: 花那么大力气设计这么复杂的一个语言.

t****t
发帖数: 6806
6
这本书是不容易懂, 但是也不难懂. 你需要经常想一想. 不像scott meyers的书不太需
要想, 他都替你想好了.
(当然我不是说看meyers的书就不用想了)

【在 a****l 的大作中提到】
: 没这么高深吧?这本书是写的好,基本上是做标准看的,那也是没办法,谁让这书是语言的
: 原作者写的呢?不过一般人也应该是很容易看懂的,看不懂的实在是有问题.

N***m
发帖数: 4460
7
没有任何取笑的意思啊。

【在 m****r 的大作中提到】
: 就不要取笑了,已经很懊恼了。
: 写C++也有几年了,想系统提高一下。是不是这本书本身很晦涩! 还是本人学习方法不
: 对,实在想请教一下。

a**e
发帖数: 5794
8
我没看过英文版的,但是中文版挺好懂的。

【在 r*********r 的大作中提到】
: 这本书其实是写给 language designer level 的人看的,
: 至少要学过点 compiler, os, PL 之类的才知道他想要说什么.
: 如果你自己设计过一个小编程语言的话, 就更能 appreciate 他为什么
: 花那么大力气设计这么复杂的一个语言.

r*********r
发帖数: 3195
9
要是那么好懂的话,这个版上就不会有这么多问c++的了。
a***n
发帖数: 665
10
书读百遍,其意自现。
俺正在读第5遍... 目标是6-10遍,hehe
相关主题
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(zz)C++11新特性C++必备书籍推荐
进入Programming版参与讨论
g*****g
发帖数: 34805
11
语言是个工具,整得这么复杂本身就是个大错误。

【在 a***n 的大作中提到】
: 书读百遍,其意自现。
: 俺正在读第5遍... 目标是6-10遍,hehe

d****p
发帖数: 685
12
You are so judgemental.
Language is just a tool, that's right. So complicated or simple, it is up to
who uses it.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: 语言是个工具,整得这么复杂本身就是个大错误。
g*****g
发帖数: 34805
13
Language is to make simple things simple, complicated
things possible. C++ doesn't excel in either statement.
People are forced to focus on the language, not business
logic, that's a waste of time.

to

【在 d****p 的大作中提到】
: You are so judgemental.
: Language is just a tool, that's right. So complicated or simple, it is up to
: who uses it.

d***q
发帖数: 1119
14

it is one of the best c++ books i ever read...based on my experience, this
book is quite hard to follow without many years experience...

【在 m****r 的大作中提到】
: 读Bjarne Stroustrup写得The C++ programming language 是不是经常有不知所谓的
: 感觉。水平该怎么提高呢?

e****d
发帖数: 895
15
Doesn't C++ provide a better way to model business logic?
The tradeof of C++'s flexibility is that people need to
spend more time to master it. The downside of C++ is that
it doesn't have as many open source libraries and frameworks
as other languages such as Java.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: Language is to make simple things simple, complicated
: things possible. C++ doesn't excel in either statement.
: People are forced to focus on the language, not business
: logic, that's a waste of time.
:
: to

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
16
C++ will be a much better language if it doesn't try to
be compatible with C alone.

【在 e****d 的大作中提到】
: Doesn't C++ provide a better way to model business logic?
: The tradeof of C++'s flexibility is that people need to
: spend more time to master it. The downside of C++ is that
: it doesn't have as many open source libraries and frameworks
: as other languages such as Java.

D*****r
发帖数: 6791
17
Why? I like that. C++ is a language for system programming.
What language would you use to write JVM?

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: C++ will be a much better language if it doesn't try to
: be compatible with C alone.

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
18
Java can call a native function when it needs to.
But it doesn't mean you have to have C code compiled inside
Java. That's the way I would design C++, C++ is getting abused
with C compatiblity.

【在 D*****r 的大作中提到】
: Why? I like that. C++ is a language for system programming.
: What language would you use to write JVM?

e****d
发帖数: 895
19
When you said C++ abusing with C compatibility, do you mean
the C++ compiler implementation or the way how developers
use C++?

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: Java can call a native function when it needs to.
: But it doesn't mean you have to have C code compiled inside
: Java. That's the way I would design C++, C++ is getting abused
: with C compatiblity.

c**b
发帖数: 2999
20
国内流行c++ primer plus

【在 m****r 的大作中提到】
: 读Bjarne Stroustrup写得The C++ programming language 是不是经常有不知所谓的
: 感觉。水平该怎么提高呢?

相关主题
问个C++的operator conversation function问题我现在常用语言是LABVIEW和ACCESS
重新捡起C++怎么上手?What programming languages do what?
程序語言有兩種。c++ cast problem
进入Programming版参与讨论
c**b
发帖数: 2999
21
其实c++ 的目的还是很明确的.比如helper operators,copy constructors等等,看得出
来c++让程序员自己定义class到自己定义operators.當然,它的堆栈的概念在c语言里就
显得很高妙. 反正看C++的书,很有兴趣.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: 语言是个工具,整得这么复杂本身就是个大错误。
g*****g
发帖数: 34805
22
Both, it makes C++ compiler difficult to develop and maintain.
And of course developer abuse are more visible for individual.

【在 e****d 的大作中提到】
: When you said C++ abusing with C compatibility, do you mean
: the C++ compiler implementation or the way how developers
: use C++?

c**b
发帖数: 2999
23
还好了,你怎么欺负compiler她都不会打你,脾气已经够好了,比老婆还好,哈哈

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: Both, it makes C++ compiler difficult to develop and maintain.
: And of course developer abuse are more visible for individual.

d****p
发帖数: 685
24
So C++ is bad since
1. Its compiler is too complicated?
2. Its compability with C makes it easy for C++ coders to write bad code?
And you may need define what C++'s compability with C means.
Don't know how you get these points. Any examples?

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: Both, it makes C++ compiler difficult to develop and maintain.
: And of course developer abuse are more visible for individual.

e****d
发帖数: 895
25
Abusing with global variables, static class data member, static
class member function ? Some examples might help explain it.

【在 d****p 的大作中提到】
: So C++ is bad since
: 1. Its compiler is too complicated?
: 2. Its compability with C makes it easy for C++ coders to write bad code?
: And you may need define what C++'s compability with C means.
: Don't know how you get these points. Any examples?

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
26
Well, haven't been working on C++ for very long.
But that's the feeling I got when reading BS's book.
It's like you don't actually want to use these features
although there are there. And these features being the
C stuff.

【在 d****p 的大作中提到】
: So C++ is bad since
: 1. Its compiler is too complicated?
: 2. Its compability with C makes it easy for C++ coders to write bad code?
: And you may need define what C++'s compability with C means.
: Don't know how you get these points. Any examples?

d****p
发帖数: 685
27
Agree that C++ coders may need to be aware of C stuff.
But that's all. Like coders using other languages, C++ coders spend most of
their time on meetings, bug fixes, reading other peoples' code, and debating
with Java guys why C++ is not bad :-) To me, C++ is on the right track by
incorporating high level stuff like Boost into standard/practise. I don't
see the commonly claimed C++ badies happen to me or people around me - a few
years' experience willmake you a good C++ coder, and there is no shortcut
to become a good coder by selecting specific languages.
C++'s compiler is indeed complicated but that's why C++ coders can enjoy the
ability to control resource and language constructs to perform high level
stuff like design. It is not a perfect language but it does provide power
for certain cases.
You are a veteran coder and pls don't provide misleading information on C++
T*******x
发帖数: 8565
28
还是同意goodbug多一点。

most of
debating
track by
don't
a few
shortcut
enjoy the
level

【在 d****p 的大作中提到】
: Agree that C++ coders may need to be aware of C stuff.
: But that's all. Like coders using other languages, C++ coders spend most of
: their time on meetings, bug fixes, reading other peoples' code, and debating
: with Java guys why C++ is not bad :-) To me, C++ is on the right track by
: incorporating high level stuff like Boost into standard/practise. I don't
: see the commonly claimed C++ badies happen to me or people around me - a few
: years' experience willmake you a good C++ coder, and there is no shortcut
: to become a good coder by selecting specific languages.
: C++'s compiler is indeed complicated but that's why C++ coders can enjoy the
: ability to control resource and language constructs to perform high level

N***m
发帖数: 4460
29
致命的是C++开发太慢了,大多数场景下面C++性价比太差。
所以如果没有C++情结的话,建议学/用C#,效率高多了。

of
debating
few
the

【在 d****p 的大作中提到】
: Agree that C++ coders may need to be aware of C stuff.
: But that's all. Like coders using other languages, C++ coders spend most of
: their time on meetings, bug fixes, reading other peoples' code, and debating
: with Java guys why C++ is not bad :-) To me, C++ is on the right track by
: incorporating high level stuff like Boost into standard/practise. I don't
: see the commonly claimed C++ badies happen to me or people around me - a few
: years' experience willmake you a good C++ coder, and there is no shortcut
: to become a good coder by selecting specific languages.
: C++'s compiler is indeed complicated but that's why C++ coders can enjoy the
: ability to control resource and language constructs to perform high level

r*********r
发帖数: 3195
30
and get stuck with windows/microsoft?

【在 N***m 的大作中提到】
: 致命的是C++开发太慢了,大多数场景下面C++性价比太差。
: 所以如果没有C++情结的话,建议学/用C#,效率高多了。
:
: of
: debating
: few
: the

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进入Programming版参与讨论
e****d
发帖数: 895
31
Sometimes, meeting some critical performance requirements
is more important than short development cycle. C++ will
be a perfect fit for this.

【在 N***m 的大作中提到】
: 致命的是C++开发太慢了,大多数场景下面C++性价比太差。
: 所以如果没有C++情结的话,建议学/用C#,效率高多了。
:
: of
: debating
: few
: the

s***o
发帖数: 2191
32
你自己不是在玩java吗,你到底哪头的:)

【在 N***m 的大作中提到】
: 致命的是C++开发太慢了,大多数场景下面C++性价比太差。
: 所以如果没有C++情结的话,建议学/用C#,效率高多了。
:
: of
: debating
: few
: the

r*********r
发帖数: 3195
33
i often write in python. with all its libraries,
it's extremely fast to implement a system.
for the critical parts, they can be swapped out with
c++ code.
N***m
发帖数: 4460
34
现在工作还没着落,哪一个都得玩:)

【在 s***o 的大作中提到】
: 你自己不是在玩java吗,你到底哪头的:)
N***m
发帖数: 4460
35
at least you can use java then.

【在 r*********r 的大作中提到】
: and get stuck with windows/microsoft?
D*******a
发帖数: 3688
36
that's how we C++ programmers keep our jobs. Higher pay than java guys and
less productive work. Long live C++ hahaha!
but yes, we C++ programmers need to learn java/c# now because more and more
people hate C++ now. so one day it will become something like cobol.
oh, wait, I thought who knows cobol these days got the highest paid since
banks need them to maintain the legacy systems?

of
debating
few
the

【在 d****p 的大作中提到】
: Agree that C++ coders may need to be aware of C stuff.
: But that's all. Like coders using other languages, C++ coders spend most of
: their time on meetings, bug fixes, reading other peoples' code, and debating
: with Java guys why C++ is not bad :-) To me, C++ is on the right track by
: incorporating high level stuff like Boost into standard/practise. I don't
: see the commonly claimed C++ badies happen to me or people around me - a few
: years' experience willmake you a good C++ coder, and there is no shortcut
: to become a good coder by selecting specific languages.
: C++'s compiler is indeed complicated but that's why C++ coders can enjoy the
: ability to control resource and language constructs to perform high level

r*********r
发帖数: 3195
37
even worse: sun is already dead. oracle is kinda a wild card.

【在 N***m 的大作中提到】
: at least you can use java then.
N***m
发帖数: 4460
38
That's just your personal point of view.

【在 r*********r 的大作中提到】
: even worse: sun is already dead. oracle is kinda a wild card.
N***m
发帖数: 4460
39
cobol got less pay even than c#.

more

【在 D*******a 的大作中提到】
: that's how we C++ programmers keep our jobs. Higher pay than java guys and
: less productive work. Long live C++ hahaha!
: but yes, we C++ programmers need to learn java/c# now because more and more
: people hate C++ now. so one day it will become something like cobol.
: oh, wait, I thought who knows cobol these days got the highest paid since
: banks need them to maintain the legacy systems?
:
: of
: debating
: few

D*******a
发帖数: 3688
40
you sure? given the vast supply of Indian C# programmers...

【在 N***m 的大作中提到】
: cobol got less pay even than c#.
:
: more

相关主题
C++,大家觉得最值得买最想买最不后悔买的书是哪本?C++0x
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哪位大侠有如下书籍的电子版,或者下载地址,多谢有必要开个c++版
进入Programming版参与讨论
s***o
发帖数: 2191
41
why do people hate C++? but it seems it is the trend according to this:
http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.htm

and
more
since

【在 D*******a 的大作中提到】
: that's how we C++ programmers keep our jobs. Higher pay than java guys and
: less productive work. Long live C++ hahaha!
: but yes, we C++ programmers need to learn java/c# now because more and more
: people hate C++ now. so one day it will become something like cobol.
: oh, wait, I thought who knows cobol these days got the highest paid since
: banks need them to maintain the legacy systems?
:
: of
: debating
: few

D*******a
发帖数: 3688
42
because we have to read other's sucky C++ programs. and soon others will
have
to read ours.

【在 s***o 的大作中提到】
: why do people hate C++? but it seems it is the trend according to this:
: http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.htm
:
: and
: more
: since

N***m
发帖数: 4460
43
according to simplyhired.com,
average cobol pay is 68K,
c# is 75K, java is 78K, c++ is 80k, j2ee is 80k.

【在 D*******a 的大作中提到】
: you sure? given the vast supply of Indian C# programmers...
D*******a
发帖数: 3688
44
thanks for the education

【在 N***m 的大作中提到】
: according to simplyhired.com,
: average cobol pay is 68K,
: c# is 75K, java is 78K, c++ is 80k, j2ee is 80k.

N***m
发帖数: 4460
45
and actually j2ee is 81k.
but a few K doesn't matter.

【在 D*******a 的大作中提到】
: thanks for the education
D*******a
发帖数: 3688
46
that's why goodbug is so tenacious.

【在 N***m 的大作中提到】
: and actually j2ee is 81k.
: but a few K doesn't matter.

N***m
发帖数: 4460
47
最终scripting language will dominate.
其他像C++,java什么的终将是昨日黄花。

【在 D*******a 的大作中提到】
: that's why goodbug is so tenacious.
e****d
发帖数: 895
48
Some interesting data, not sure whether it's out of dated or not.
http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/

【在 N***m 的大作中提到】
: 最终scripting language will dominate.
: 其他像C++,java什么的终将是昨日黄花。

D*******a
发帖数: 3688
49
I can't hate scripts more. not read-able. no type checking. bugs everywhere.

【在 N***m 的大作中提到】
: 最终scripting language will dominate.
: 其他像C++,java什么的终将是昨日黄花。

r*********r
发帖数: 3195
50
what is this? for fresh undergraduates? sounds pretty low.

【在 N***m 的大作中提到】
: according to simplyhired.com,
: average cobol pay is 68K,
: c# is 75K, java is 78K, c++ is 80k, j2ee is 80k.

相关主题
Bjarne Stroustrup C++第四版电子版出来了重新捡起C++怎么上手?
C++必备书籍推荐程序語言有兩種。
问个C++的operator conversation function问题我现在常用语言是LABVIEW和ACCESS
进入Programming版参与讨论
s***o
发帖数: 2191
51
LOL

【在 D*******a 的大作中提到】
: that's why goodbug is so tenacious.
s***o
发帖数: 2191
52
Hopefully M$ will do something in the next release of Visual Studio since
their "strategy has shifted..."

everywhere.

【在 D*******a 的大作中提到】
: I can't hate scripts more. not read-able. no type checking. bugs everywhere.
r*********r
发帖数: 3195
53
python 3 has type annotation. it's not for type checking,
just for documentation purpose.
on the other hand, the new c++ will have auto var, which doesn't
have explicit type declarations.

everywhere.

【在 D*******a 的大作中提到】
: I can't hate scripts more. not read-able. no type checking. bugs everywhere.
D*******a
发帖数: 3688
54
I've burned by python as someone inadvertently switched the order of
parameters in a function call. took a long time to figure out the bug. this
will not happen in other strongly-typed languages.
var is ok because basically the compiler will resolve the type for you, just
like C#. Sometimes it gives trouble though, especially in LINQ in C#.

【在 r*********r 的大作中提到】
: python 3 has type annotation. it's not for type checking,
: just for documentation purpose.
: on the other hand, the new c++ will have auto var, which doesn't
: have explicit type declarations.
:
: everywhere.

N***m
发帖数: 4460
55
You are just arguing on the wrong side. remember:nothing is perfect.

this
just

【在 D*******a 的大作中提到】
: I've burned by python as someone inadvertently switched the order of
: parameters in a function call. took a long time to figure out the bug. this
: will not happen in other strongly-typed languages.
: var is ok because basically the compiler will resolve the type for you, just
: like C#. Sometimes it gives trouble though, especially in LINQ in C#.

N***m
发帖数: 4460
56
C++ is not designed to be a perfect language, neither is jave, python,
they are just practical tools. so just pick up the one that you feel handy.
If you just want to find a job, there is really no need to discuss more
on this.

【在 N***m 的大作中提到】
: You are just arguing on the wrong side. remember:nothing is perfect.
:
: this
: just

l******e
发帖数: 12192
57
不错,你这个初学者能有这个见识比很多老鸟强

【在 N***m 的大作中提到】
: C++ is not designed to be a perfect language, neither is jave, python,
: they are just practical tools. so just pick up the one that you feel handy.
: If you just want to find a job, there is really no need to discuss more
: on this.

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
58
I don't want to make this another C++ vs. Java thread,
I am merely saying C++ will be better off if it doesn't try
to make C first class citizen. Strictly requiring it to be
called as external functions wrapped in certain class
will make C++ code much cleaner and consistent in OO sense.
Why do you need things like void*, char*, global function in
C++? #Define is often abused too. And there's no such things
like good C++ coders don't do that. There are always more
bad coders than good coders in every language domain. Once
you open the Pandora box, you invite evil.
I understand it's too late to make that kind of change due
to legacy reason. But it's safe to say BS had a bad choice there.

【在 D*******a 的大作中提到】
: that's why goodbug is so tenacious.
r*********r
发帖数: 3195
59
object-oriented is overrated.
r*********r
发帖数: 3195
60
python, c++, javascript, SQL, R, latex pretty much cover all i use.
they are all standard, free, open.
would never use proprietary languages like java, c#, vb, matlab.

【在 N***m 的大作中提到】
: C++ is not designed to be a perfect language, neither is jave, python,
: they are just practical tools. so just pick up the one that you feel handy.
: If you just want to find a job, there is really no need to discuss more
: on this.

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