m****r 发帖数: 51 | 1 读Bjarne Stroustrup写得The C++ programming language 是不是经常有不知所谓的
感觉。水平该怎么提高呢? |
N***m 发帖数: 4460 | 2 那就使劲地看,可劲的看,直到看懂。
【在 m****r 的大作中提到】 : 读Bjarne Stroustrup写得The C++ programming language 是不是经常有不知所谓的 : 感觉。水平该怎么提高呢?
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m****r 发帖数: 51 | 3 就不要取笑了,已经很懊恼了。
写C++也有几年了,想系统提高一下。是不是这本书本身很晦涩! 还是本人学习方法不
对,实在想请教一下。
【在 N***m 的大作中提到】 : 那就使劲地看,可劲的看,直到看懂。
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r*********r 发帖数: 3195 | 4 这本书其实是写给 language designer level 的人看的,
至少要学过点 compiler, os, PL 之类的才知道他想要说什么.
如果你自己设计过一个小编程语言的话, 就更能 appreciate 他为什么
花那么大力气设计这么复杂的一个语言. |
a****l 发帖数: 8211 | 5 没这么高深吧?这本书是写的好,基本上是做标准看的,那也是没办法,谁让这书是语言的
原作者写的呢?不过一般人也应该是很容易看懂的,看不懂的实在是有问题.
【在 r*********r 的大作中提到】 : 这本书其实是写给 language designer level 的人看的, : 至少要学过点 compiler, os, PL 之类的才知道他想要说什么. : 如果你自己设计过一个小编程语言的话, 就更能 appreciate 他为什么 : 花那么大力气设计这么复杂的一个语言.
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t****t 发帖数: 6806 | 6 这本书是不容易懂, 但是也不难懂. 你需要经常想一想. 不像scott meyers的书不太需
要想, 他都替你想好了.
(当然我不是说看meyers的书就不用想了)
【在 a****l 的大作中提到】 : 没这么高深吧?这本书是写的好,基本上是做标准看的,那也是没办法,谁让这书是语言的 : 原作者写的呢?不过一般人也应该是很容易看懂的,看不懂的实在是有问题.
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N***m 发帖数: 4460 | 7 没有任何取笑的意思啊。
【在 m****r 的大作中提到】 : 就不要取笑了,已经很懊恼了。 : 写C++也有几年了,想系统提高一下。是不是这本书本身很晦涩! 还是本人学习方法不 : 对,实在想请教一下。
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a**e 发帖数: 5794 | 8 我没看过英文版的,但是中文版挺好懂的。
【在 r*********r 的大作中提到】 : 这本书其实是写给 language designer level 的人看的, : 至少要学过点 compiler, os, PL 之类的才知道他想要说什么. : 如果你自己设计过一个小编程语言的话, 就更能 appreciate 他为什么 : 花那么大力气设计这么复杂的一个语言.
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r*********r 发帖数: 3195 | 9 要是那么好懂的话,这个版上就不会有这么多问c++的了。 |
a***n 发帖数: 665 | 10 书读百遍,其意自现。
俺正在读第5遍... 目标是6-10遍,hehe |
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g*****g 发帖数: 34805 | 11 语言是个工具,整得这么复杂本身就是个大错误。
【在 a***n 的大作中提到】 : 书读百遍,其意自现。 : 俺正在读第5遍... 目标是6-10遍,hehe
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d****p 发帖数: 685 | 12 You are so judgemental.
Language is just a tool, that's right. So complicated or simple, it is up to
who uses it.
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : 语言是个工具,整得这么复杂本身就是个大错误。
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g*****g 发帖数: 34805 | 13 Language is to make simple things simple, complicated
things possible. C++ doesn't excel in either statement.
People are forced to focus on the language, not business
logic, that's a waste of time.
to
【在 d****p 的大作中提到】 : You are so judgemental. : Language is just a tool, that's right. So complicated or simple, it is up to : who uses it.
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d***q 发帖数: 1119 | 14
it is one of the best c++ books i ever read...based on my experience, this
book is quite hard to follow without many years experience...
【在 m****r 的大作中提到】 : 读Bjarne Stroustrup写得The C++ programming language 是不是经常有不知所谓的 : 感觉。水平该怎么提高呢?
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e****d 发帖数: 895 | 15 Doesn't C++ provide a better way to model business logic?
The tradeof of C++'s flexibility is that people need to
spend more time to master it. The downside of C++ is that
it doesn't have as many open source libraries and frameworks
as other languages such as Java.
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : Language is to make simple things simple, complicated : things possible. C++ doesn't excel in either statement. : People are forced to focus on the language, not business : logic, that's a waste of time. : : to
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g*****g 发帖数: 34805 | 16 C++ will be a much better language if it doesn't try to
be compatible with C alone.
【在 e****d 的大作中提到】 : Doesn't C++ provide a better way to model business logic? : The tradeof of C++'s flexibility is that people need to : spend more time to master it. The downside of C++ is that : it doesn't have as many open source libraries and frameworks : as other languages such as Java.
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D*****r 发帖数: 6791 | 17 Why? I like that. C++ is a language for system programming.
What language would you use to write JVM?
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : C++ will be a much better language if it doesn't try to : be compatible with C alone.
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g*****g 发帖数: 34805 | 18 Java can call a native function when it needs to.
But it doesn't mean you have to have C code compiled inside
Java. That's the way I would design C++, C++ is getting abused
with C compatiblity.
【在 D*****r 的大作中提到】 : Why? I like that. C++ is a language for system programming. : What language would you use to write JVM?
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e****d 发帖数: 895 | 19 When you said C++ abusing with C compatibility, do you mean
the C++ compiler implementation or the way how developers
use C++?
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : Java can call a native function when it needs to. : But it doesn't mean you have to have C code compiled inside : Java. That's the way I would design C++, C++ is getting abused : with C compatiblity.
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c**b 发帖数: 2999 | 20 国内流行c++ primer plus
【在 m****r 的大作中提到】 : 读Bjarne Stroustrup写得The C++ programming language 是不是经常有不知所谓的 : 感觉。水平该怎么提高呢?
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c**b 发帖数: 2999 | 21 其实c++ 的目的还是很明确的.比如helper operators,copy constructors等等,看得出
来c++让程序员自己定义class到自己定义operators.當然,它的堆栈的概念在c语言里就
显得很高妙. 反正看C++的书,很有兴趣.
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : 语言是个工具,整得这么复杂本身就是个大错误。
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g*****g 发帖数: 34805 | 22 Both, it makes C++ compiler difficult to develop and maintain.
And of course developer abuse are more visible for individual.
【在 e****d 的大作中提到】 : When you said C++ abusing with C compatibility, do you mean : the C++ compiler implementation or the way how developers : use C++?
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c**b 发帖数: 2999 | 23 还好了,你怎么欺负compiler她都不会打你,脾气已经够好了,比老婆还好,哈哈
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : Both, it makes C++ compiler difficult to develop and maintain. : And of course developer abuse are more visible for individual.
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d****p 发帖数: 685 | 24 So C++ is bad since
1. Its compiler is too complicated?
2. Its compability with C makes it easy for C++ coders to write bad code?
And you may need define what C++'s compability with C means.
Don't know how you get these points. Any examples?
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : Both, it makes C++ compiler difficult to develop and maintain. : And of course developer abuse are more visible for individual.
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e****d 发帖数: 895 | 25 Abusing with global variables, static class data member, static
class member function ? Some examples might help explain it.
【在 d****p 的大作中提到】 : So C++ is bad since : 1. Its compiler is too complicated? : 2. Its compability with C makes it easy for C++ coders to write bad code? : And you may need define what C++'s compability with C means. : Don't know how you get these points. Any examples?
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g*****g 发帖数: 34805 | 26 Well, haven't been working on C++ for very long.
But that's the feeling I got when reading BS's book.
It's like you don't actually want to use these features
although there are there. And these features being the
C stuff.
【在 d****p 的大作中提到】 : So C++ is bad since : 1. Its compiler is too complicated? : 2. Its compability with C makes it easy for C++ coders to write bad code? : And you may need define what C++'s compability with C means. : Don't know how you get these points. Any examples?
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d****p 发帖数: 685 | 27 Agree that C++ coders may need to be aware of C stuff.
But that's all. Like coders using other languages, C++ coders spend most of
their time on meetings, bug fixes, reading other peoples' code, and debating
with Java guys why C++ is not bad :-) To me, C++ is on the right track by
incorporating high level stuff like Boost into standard/practise. I don't
see the commonly claimed C++ badies happen to me or people around me - a few
years' experience willmake you a good C++ coder, and there is no shortcut
to become a good coder by selecting specific languages.
C++'s compiler is indeed complicated but that's why C++ coders can enjoy the
ability to control resource and language constructs to perform high level
stuff like design. It is not a perfect language but it does provide power
for certain cases.
You are a veteran coder and pls don't provide misleading information on C++ |
T*******x 发帖数: 8565 | 28 还是同意goodbug多一点。
most of
debating
track by
don't
a few
shortcut
enjoy the
level
【在 d****p 的大作中提到】 : Agree that C++ coders may need to be aware of C stuff. : But that's all. Like coders using other languages, C++ coders spend most of : their time on meetings, bug fixes, reading other peoples' code, and debating : with Java guys why C++ is not bad :-) To me, C++ is on the right track by : incorporating high level stuff like Boost into standard/practise. I don't : see the commonly claimed C++ badies happen to me or people around me - a few : years' experience willmake you a good C++ coder, and there is no shortcut : to become a good coder by selecting specific languages. : C++'s compiler is indeed complicated but that's why C++ coders can enjoy the : ability to control resource and language constructs to perform high level
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N***m 发帖数: 4460 | 29 致命的是C++开发太慢了,大多数场景下面C++性价比太差。
所以如果没有C++情结的话,建议学/用C#,效率高多了。
of
debating
few
the
【在 d****p 的大作中提到】 : Agree that C++ coders may need to be aware of C stuff. : But that's all. Like coders using other languages, C++ coders spend most of : their time on meetings, bug fixes, reading other peoples' code, and debating : with Java guys why C++ is not bad :-) To me, C++ is on the right track by : incorporating high level stuff like Boost into standard/practise. I don't : see the commonly claimed C++ badies happen to me or people around me - a few : years' experience willmake you a good C++ coder, and there is no shortcut : to become a good coder by selecting specific languages. : C++'s compiler is indeed complicated but that's why C++ coders can enjoy the : ability to control resource and language constructs to perform high level
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r*********r 发帖数: 3195 | 30 and get stuck with windows/microsoft?
【在 N***m 的大作中提到】 : 致命的是C++开发太慢了,大多数场景下面C++性价比太差。 : 所以如果没有C++情结的话,建议学/用C#,效率高多了。 : : of : debating : few : the
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e****d 发帖数: 895 | 31 Sometimes, meeting some critical performance requirements
is more important than short development cycle. C++ will
be a perfect fit for this.
【在 N***m 的大作中提到】 : 致命的是C++开发太慢了,大多数场景下面C++性价比太差。 : 所以如果没有C++情结的话,建议学/用C#,效率高多了。 : : of : debating : few : the
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s***o 发帖数: 2191 | 32 你自己不是在玩java吗,你到底哪头的:)
【在 N***m 的大作中提到】 : 致命的是C++开发太慢了,大多数场景下面C++性价比太差。 : 所以如果没有C++情结的话,建议学/用C#,效率高多了。 : : of : debating : few : the
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r*********r 发帖数: 3195 | 33 i often write in python. with all its libraries,
it's extremely fast to implement a system.
for the critical parts, they can be swapped out with
c++ code. |
N***m 发帖数: 4460 | 34 现在工作还没着落,哪一个都得玩:)
【在 s***o 的大作中提到】 : 你自己不是在玩java吗,你到底哪头的:)
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N***m 发帖数: 4460 | 35 at least you can use java then.
【在 r*********r 的大作中提到】 : and get stuck with windows/microsoft?
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D*******a 发帖数: 3688 | 36 that's how we C++ programmers keep our jobs. Higher pay than java guys and
less productive work. Long live C++ hahaha!
but yes, we C++ programmers need to learn java/c# now because more and more
people hate C++ now. so one day it will become something like cobol.
oh, wait, I thought who knows cobol these days got the highest paid since
banks need them to maintain the legacy systems?
of
debating
few
the
【在 d****p 的大作中提到】 : Agree that C++ coders may need to be aware of C stuff. : But that's all. Like coders using other languages, C++ coders spend most of : their time on meetings, bug fixes, reading other peoples' code, and debating : with Java guys why C++ is not bad :-) To me, C++ is on the right track by : incorporating high level stuff like Boost into standard/practise. I don't : see the commonly claimed C++ badies happen to me or people around me - a few : years' experience willmake you a good C++ coder, and there is no shortcut : to become a good coder by selecting specific languages. : C++'s compiler is indeed complicated but that's why C++ coders can enjoy the : ability to control resource and language constructs to perform high level
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r*********r 发帖数: 3195 | 37 even worse: sun is already dead. oracle is kinda a wild card.
【在 N***m 的大作中提到】 : at least you can use java then.
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N***m 发帖数: 4460 | 38 That's just your personal point of view.
【在 r*********r 的大作中提到】 : even worse: sun is already dead. oracle is kinda a wild card.
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N***m 发帖数: 4460 | 39 cobol got less pay even than c#.
more
【在 D*******a 的大作中提到】 : that's how we C++ programmers keep our jobs. Higher pay than java guys and : less productive work. Long live C++ hahaha! : but yes, we C++ programmers need to learn java/c# now because more and more : people hate C++ now. so one day it will become something like cobol. : oh, wait, I thought who knows cobol these days got the highest paid since : banks need them to maintain the legacy systems? : : of : debating : few
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D*******a 发帖数: 3688 | 40 you sure? given the vast supply of Indian C# programmers...
【在 N***m 的大作中提到】 : cobol got less pay even than c#. : : more
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s***o 发帖数: 2191 | 41 why do people hate C++? but it seems it is the trend according to this:
http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.htm
and
more
since
【在 D*******a 的大作中提到】 : that's how we C++ programmers keep our jobs. Higher pay than java guys and : less productive work. Long live C++ hahaha! : but yes, we C++ programmers need to learn java/c# now because more and more : people hate C++ now. so one day it will become something like cobol. : oh, wait, I thought who knows cobol these days got the highest paid since : banks need them to maintain the legacy systems? : : of : debating : few
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D*******a 发帖数: 3688 | 42 because we have to read other's sucky C++ programs. and soon others will
have
to read ours.
【在 s***o 的大作中提到】 : why do people hate C++? but it seems it is the trend according to this: : http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.htm : : and : more : since
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N***m 发帖数: 4460 | 43 according to simplyhired.com,
average cobol pay is 68K,
c# is 75K, java is 78K, c++ is 80k, j2ee is 80k.
【在 D*******a 的大作中提到】 : you sure? given the vast supply of Indian C# programmers...
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D*******a 发帖数: 3688 | 44 thanks for the education
【在 N***m 的大作中提到】 : according to simplyhired.com, : average cobol pay is 68K, : c# is 75K, java is 78K, c++ is 80k, j2ee is 80k.
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N***m 发帖数: 4460 | 45 and actually j2ee is 81k.
but a few K doesn't matter.
【在 D*******a 的大作中提到】 : thanks for the education
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D*******a 发帖数: 3688 | 46 that's why goodbug is so tenacious.
【在 N***m 的大作中提到】 : and actually j2ee is 81k. : but a few K doesn't matter.
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N***m 发帖数: 4460 | 47 最终scripting language will dominate.
其他像C++,java什么的终将是昨日黄花。
【在 D*******a 的大作中提到】 : that's why goodbug is so tenacious.
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e****d 发帖数: 895 | 48 Some interesting data, not sure whether it's out of dated or not.
http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/
【在 N***m 的大作中提到】 : 最终scripting language will dominate. : 其他像C++,java什么的终将是昨日黄花。
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D*******a 发帖数: 3688 | 49 I can't hate scripts more. not read-able. no type checking. bugs everywhere.
【在 N***m 的大作中提到】 : 最终scripting language will dominate. : 其他像C++,java什么的终将是昨日黄花。
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r*********r 发帖数: 3195 | 50 what is this? for fresh undergraduates? sounds pretty low.
【在 N***m 的大作中提到】 : according to simplyhired.com, : average cobol pay is 68K, : c# is 75K, java is 78K, c++ is 80k, j2ee is 80k.
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s***o 发帖数: 2191 | 51 LOL
【在 D*******a 的大作中提到】 : that's why goodbug is so tenacious.
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s***o 发帖数: 2191 | 52 Hopefully M$ will do something in the next release of Visual Studio since
their "strategy has shifted..."
everywhere.
【在 D*******a 的大作中提到】 : I can't hate scripts more. not read-able. no type checking. bugs everywhere.
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r*********r 发帖数: 3195 | 53 python 3 has type annotation. it's not for type checking,
just for documentation purpose.
on the other hand, the new c++ will have auto var, which doesn't
have explicit type declarations.
everywhere.
【在 D*******a 的大作中提到】 : I can't hate scripts more. not read-able. no type checking. bugs everywhere.
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D*******a 发帖数: 3688 | 54 I've burned by python as someone inadvertently switched the order of
parameters in a function call. took a long time to figure out the bug. this
will not happen in other strongly-typed languages.
var is ok because basically the compiler will resolve the type for you, just
like C#. Sometimes it gives trouble though, especially in LINQ in C#.
【在 r*********r 的大作中提到】 : python 3 has type annotation. it's not for type checking, : just for documentation purpose. : on the other hand, the new c++ will have auto var, which doesn't : have explicit type declarations. : : everywhere.
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N***m 发帖数: 4460 | 55 You are just arguing on the wrong side. remember:nothing is perfect.
this
just
【在 D*******a 的大作中提到】 : I've burned by python as someone inadvertently switched the order of : parameters in a function call. took a long time to figure out the bug. this : will not happen in other strongly-typed languages. : var is ok because basically the compiler will resolve the type for you, just : like C#. Sometimes it gives trouble though, especially in LINQ in C#.
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N***m 发帖数: 4460 | 56 C++ is not designed to be a perfect language, neither is jave, python,
they are just practical tools. so just pick up the one that you feel handy.
If you just want to find a job, there is really no need to discuss more
on this.
【在 N***m 的大作中提到】 : You are just arguing on the wrong side. remember:nothing is perfect. : : this : just
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l******e 发帖数: 12192 | 57 不错,你这个初学者能有这个见识比很多老鸟强
【在 N***m 的大作中提到】 : C++ is not designed to be a perfect language, neither is jave, python, : they are just practical tools. so just pick up the one that you feel handy. : If you just want to find a job, there is really no need to discuss more : on this.
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g*****g 发帖数: 34805 | 58 I don't want to make this another C++ vs. Java thread,
I am merely saying C++ will be better off if it doesn't try
to make C first class citizen. Strictly requiring it to be
called as external functions wrapped in certain class
will make C++ code much cleaner and consistent in OO sense.
Why do you need things like void*, char*, global function in
C++? #Define is often abused too. And there's no such things
like good C++ coders don't do that. There are always more
bad coders than good coders in every language domain. Once
you open the Pandora box, you invite evil.
I understand it's too late to make that kind of change due
to legacy reason. But it's safe to say BS had a bad choice there.
【在 D*******a 的大作中提到】 : that's why goodbug is so tenacious.
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r*********r 发帖数: 3195 | 59 object-oriented is overrated. |
r*********r 发帖数: 3195 | 60 python, c++, javascript, SQL, R, latex pretty much cover all i use.
they are all standard, free, open.
would never use proprietary languages like java, c#, vb, matlab.
【在 N***m 的大作中提到】 : C++ is not designed to be a perfect language, neither is jave, python, : they are just practical tools. so just pick up the one that you feel handy. : If you just want to find a job, there is really no need to discuss more : on this.
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