f**********n
发帖数: 29853 | |
f*******y
发帖数: 8358 | 2 劳模学习很猛。现在看来不比白人差。加州也是这个情况，现在加州劳模的入学比例几
乎快赶上人口比例了。全美排名前十的高中大概有2，3个是纯劳模高中。
【在 f**********n 的大作中提到】
: http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/national/2016/01/07/decidersbu
: 结巴布什，很有趣的政客。
|
f**********n
发帖数: 29853 | 3 是的，大力表扬勤劳劳模
【在 f*******y 的大作中提到】
: 劳模学习很猛。现在看来不比白人差。加州也是这个情况，现在加州劳模的入学比例几
: 乎快赶上人口比例了。全美排名前十的高中大概有2，3个是纯劳模高中。
|
f*******y
发帖数: 8358 | 4 劳模现在做faculty的也很多。都很聪明。
劳模这个族群的智商应该是和白人亚裔差不多的。
【在 f**********n 的大作中提到】
: 是的，大力表扬勤劳劳模
|
f**********n
发帖数: 29853 | 5 天道酬勤，我打字不方便现在。：)
【在 f*******y 的大作中提到】
: 劳模现在做faculty的也很多。都很聪明。
: 劳模这个族群的智商应该是和白人亚裔差不多的。
|
t******l
发帖数: 10908 | 6 能上进的 social economic disadvantaged 劳模应该给予支持帮助。
所谓防止社会阶层固化的真正意义，是在于不能逼良为盗。否则社会有不安定的危险。
【在 f*******y 的大作中提到】
: 劳模现在做faculty的也很多。都很聪明。
: 劳模这个族群的智商应该是和白人亚裔差不多的。
|
d****g
发帖数: 7460 | 7 哎妈，顿悟，epiphany, 原来AA是党派之争。
所以我说什么AA的替代10%政策对亚裔有哪些弊端，你们不在乎，反AA，因为这是共和
党的政策。
所以我说亚裔问题的关键是holistic过程中的隐形歧视，你们不在乎，反AA，因为这是
共和党的政策。
那我还辩论什么亚裔利益啊？你们关注的又不是亚裔，是共和党。
那你们还把整个亚裔都卖给自己政党了，说不反AA就是民族自恨，臭不要脸呢。
现在论题终于明了了。如果说讨论共和党的话，共和党反不劳而获，反对大政府，所以
你们愤黑。明白了！早说啊！ |
t******l
发帖数: 10908 | 8 正常程度的党派之争也是人之常情。是人总有立场，或多或少。
不是人之常情的，是那种 By Any Means Necessary 极端主义不择手段型党派之争。
【在 d****g 的大作中提到】
: 哎妈，顿悟，epiphany, 原来AA是党派之争。
: 所以我说什么AA的替代10%政策对亚裔有哪些弊端，你们不在乎，反AA，因为这是共和
: 党的政策。
: 所以我说亚裔问题的关键是holistic过程中的隐形歧视，你们不在乎，反AA，因为这是
: 共和党的政策。
: 那我还辩论什么亚裔利益啊？你们关注的又不是亚裔，是共和党。
: 那你们还把整个亚裔都卖给自己政党了，说不反AA就是民族自恨，臭不要脸呢。
: 现在论题终于明了了。如果说讨论共和党的话，共和党反不劳而获，反对大政府，所以
: 你们愤黑。明白了！早说啊！
|
f**********n
发帖数: 29853 | 9 我就是因为反AA才由民主党立场变成共和党的。
党派在美国，就是思想立场而已，不要装纯了。
【在 d****g 的大作中提到】
: 哎妈，顿悟，epiphany, 原来AA是党派之争。
: 所以我说什么AA的替代10%政策对亚裔有哪些弊端，你们不在乎，反AA，因为这是共和
: 党的政策。
: 所以我说亚裔问题的关键是holistic过程中的隐形歧视，你们不在乎，反AA，因为这是
: 共和党的政策。
: 那我还辩论什么亚裔利益啊？你们关注的又不是亚裔，是共和党。
: 那你们还把整个亚裔都卖给自己政党了，说不反AA就是民族自恨，臭不要脸呢。
: 现在论题终于明了了。如果说讨论共和党的话，共和党反不劳而获，反对大政府，所以
: 你们愤黑。明白了！早说啊！
|
t******l
发帖数: 10908 | 10 我本来是无党派的，后来 SCA5 以后倾向于共和党。
当然相对于我的 liberal conservative 的政见，也不算奇怪。
【在 f**********n 的大作中提到】
: 我就是因为反AA才由民主党立场变成共和党的。
: 党派在美国，就是思想立场而已，不要装纯了。
|
|
|
f**********n
发帖数: 29853 | 11 跟我一模一样的时间点。sca5真是撕掉了民主党政客虚伪的面纱。
【在 t******l 的大作中提到】
: 我本来是无党派的，后来 SCA5 以后倾向于共和党。
: 当然相对于我的 liberal conservative 的政见，也不算奇怪。
|
f**********n
发帖数: 29853 | |
f**********n
发帖数: 29853 | 13 再发誓一次，隶属任何政党组织死全家。奶奶地，我啥时候掩饰过我的右派立场了？
人活在世上靠自己，我可以帮别人，但谁也别欺负我。AA去死。 |
t******l
发帖数: 10908 | 14 liberal / conservative 里面其实还细分。
比如 conservative 里的 liberal conservative 就相对偏左不少，但也不是
conservative 里最左的。
Liberal conservatism is a political ideology combining conservative policies
with liberal stances, especially on economic and social issues, or a brand
of political conservatism strongly influenced by liberalism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_conservatism
【在 f**********n 的大作中提到】
: 再贴一次，左派还是右派
: http://www.studentnewsdaily.com/conservative-vs-liberal-beliefs
|
d****g
发帖数: 7460 | 15 我team dinner,发现我同事都是共和党。：）
我肯定不能说共和党观点一无是处。那么大个党呢。
福利制度的确有问题。但共和党也没提出什么改变现状的举措。
美国的黑人问题是个超越党派的大问题。都是当年蓄奴惹得祸。拉美国家要么混血化，
不存在这个问题；要么如牙买加，黑人翻身做了主人，自治了，也算解决了这个问题。
美国来了个南北战争，融儿不合，我就不扮演“啥都明白”了。 |
t******l
发帖数: 10908 | 16 美国共和党也不是中国共产党，既没有党员一说，自称共和党但三观不一致的，多了去
了。
【在 d****g 的大作中提到】
: 我team dinner,发现我同事都是共和党。：）
: 我肯定不能说共和党观点一无是处。那么大个党呢。
: 福利制度的确有问题。但共和党也没提出什么改变现状的举措。
: 美国的黑人问题是个超越党派的大问题。都是当年蓄奴惹得祸。拉美国家要么混血化，
: 不存在这个问题；要么如牙买加，黑人翻身做了主人，自治了，也算解决了这个问题。
: 美国来了个南北战争，融儿不合，我就不扮演“啥都明白”了。
|
u*****a
发帖数: 6276 | 17 你居然吃饭的时候讨论政治！估计你们那里天气太好了。
【在 d****g 的大作中提到】
: 我team dinner,发现我同事都是共和党。：）
: 我肯定不能说共和党观点一无是处。那么大个党呢。
: 福利制度的确有问题。但共和党也没提出什么改变现状的举措。
: 美国的黑人问题是个超越党派的大问题。都是当年蓄奴惹得祸。拉美国家要么混血化，
: 不存在这个问题；要么如牙买加，黑人翻身做了主人，自治了，也算解决了这个问题。
: 美国来了个南北战争，融儿不合，我就不扮演“啥都明白”了。
|
f**********n
发帖数: 29853 | |
w*********o
发帖数: 3030 | 19 Your comment is against your position on SCA5, which is essentially set up
with the intention to help 能上进的 social economic disadvantaged 劳模 in
California at the the expense of everyone else.
【在 t******l 的大作中提到】
: 能上进的 social economic disadvantaged 劳模应该给予支持帮助。
: 所谓防止社会阶层固化的真正意义，是在于不能逼良为盗。否则社会有不安定的危险。
|
z***e
发帖数: 1757 | 20 SCA5要修改加州宪法，取消加州对种族优待的禁止。哪里提到social economic
disadvantaged? 现在加州宪法并不禁止对social economic disadvantages的优待，压
根就不需要SCA5
【在 w*********o 的大作中提到】
: Your comment is against your position on SCA5, which is essentially set up
: with the intention to help 能上进的 social economic disadvantaged 劳模 in
: California at the the expense of everyone else.
|
|
|
w*********o
发帖数: 3030 | 21 Hispanic American basically enjoy the benefit of minority in policy and the
majority in public opinion (lighter skin plus religious). They are the
second boss in the eyes of die hard GOP supporters on this website, somebody
they want to fight for too.
US-cuba relationship are normalized. However, you don't see politician try
to revoke the preferential treatment of Cuban immigrants. I guess their skin
is lighter those who come over through land. |
w*********o
发帖数: 3030 | 22 I am against SCA5. You have no idea how things work in real world.
【在 z***e 的大作中提到】
: SCA5要修改加州宪法，取消加州对种族优待的禁止。哪里提到social economic
: disadvantaged? 现在加州宪法并不禁止对social economic disadvantages的优待，压
: 根就不需要SCA5
|
z***e
发帖数: 1757 | 23 that is so helpful. please enlighten me.
【在 w*********o 的大作中提到】
: I am against SCA5. You have no idea how things work in real world.
|
w*********o
发帖数: 3030 | 24 Are you pretend you don't know that?
You can find every piece of information you want yourself if you care enough
to try.
【在 z***e 的大作中提到】
: that is so helpful. please enlighten me.
|
z***e
发帖数: 1757 | 25 I have no idea how things worked in the real world.
enough
【在 w*********o 的大作中提到】
: Are you pretend you don't know that?
: You can find every piece of information you want yourself if you care enough
: to try.
|
u*****a
发帖数: 6276 | 26 Based on publicly accessible data, it is indisputable that both in absolute
numbers and percentages, minorities that attend the University of California
have increased. Comparing the data in 1996 and 2013: Black students'
population increased from 4% to 4.3% out of 6.6% of the California
population, Chicanos and Latinos increased from 14.3% to 27.8% out of 38.2%
population, Asian increased from 32% to 35.9% out of 13.9% population. The
only race group with decreased student population is whites (decreased from
41% to 27.9%, out of 39.4% population)
1）白人真可怜
2）墨西哥裔会追上白人，然后超过亚裔
看来我上次贴的图，有效啊。十个墨西哥裔里面，至少会出一个秀才！
其实 BLUM 先生，应该找个墨西哥裔的学生当傀儡才对。那样，气势更大。架不住人家
墨西哥裔人多呀。 |
u*****a
发帖数: 6276 | 27 发信人: uvachja (鹤立鸡群), 信区: Parenting
标 题: Re: 【华裔迫切需要关注的大学入学AA】
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue Jan 5 14:38:22 2016, 美东)
哈佛对西班牙裔的门槛仍然远远高于20年前
20年来美国适龄西班牙裔的人口增加了一倍多，但是哈佛西班牙裔比例一直在13%左右
不变
从 1970 年到 2014年，美国西班牙裔的人口增长了 4.5 倍之多。如果 1970 年哈佛西
班牙裔只占 4% 的话，那么 2014 年应该升到 22% 才没有歧视作怪呀。
人家西班牙裔的人口在2010 和 2014 年之间增加的人口数，比亚裔目前在美国的总合
还多。可被 哈佛录取的比例，根本没有变化!
歧视呀!
充满正义感的 Mr. Blum，应该拔钱包相助被哈佛无耻歧视的广大西班牙裔学生，再告
一次哈佛。 |
u*****a
发帖数: 6276 | 28 发信人: timefall (时光崩塌), 信区: Parenting
标 题: Re: 【华裔迫切需要关注的大学入学AA】
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue Jan 5 15:22:55 2016, 美东)
增加的西裔人口。一大部分是 undocumented immigrants，不太会说英语，也不
bother 学超过体力劳动需要的英语。另一大部分是西裔对后代重数量不中质量。
如果要改变这个比例，首先是堵掉undocumented immigrants 的口子，提高移民的质量
和对美国长期发展的考虑。否则你再完善的系统也经不起 undocumented immigrants
钱塘江浪潮般的冲击。
但民主党显然不会干这事，这件事上支持共和党可能是唯一的办法。
【在 t******l 的大作中提到】
: 能上进的 social economic disadvantaged 劳模应该给予支持帮助。
: 所谓防止社会阶层固化的真正意义，是在于不能逼良为盗。否则社会有不安定的危险。
|
t******l
发帖数: 10908 | 29 It is YOU don't understand how things work in real world.
However I wouldn't waste time argue with you on details. There are more
trusted channel than this BBS.
【在 w*********o 的大作中提到】
: I am against SCA5. You have no idea how things work in real world.
|
u*****a
发帖数: 6276 | |
|
|
f**********n
发帖数: 29853 | 31 难得看见AA支持者鹤立鸡群贴数据，有胆敢理性讨论，不搅拌，不复制粘贴，不贴乱七
八糟的图不？
我先提问，请给出这段话的来源，和你想证明啥结论？
absolute
California
%
from
【在 u*****a 的大作中提到】
: Based on publicly accessible data, it is indisputable that both in absolute
: numbers and percentages, minorities that attend the University of California
: have increased. Comparing the data in 1996 and 2013: Black students'
: population increased from 4% to 4.3% out of 6.6% of the California
: population, Chicanos and Latinos increased from 14.3% to 27.8% out of 38.2%
: population, Asian increased from 32% to 35.9% out of 13.9% population. The
: only race group with decreased student population is whites (decreased from
: 41% to 27.9%, out of 39.4% population)
: 1）白人真可怜
: 2）墨西哥裔会追上白人，然后超过亚裔
|
t******l
发帖数: 10908 | 32 我觉得他是想拿票仓吓人。
【在 f**********n 的大作中提到】
: 难得看见AA支持者鹤立鸡群贴数据，有胆敢理性讨论，不搅拌，不复制粘贴，不贴乱七
: 八糟的图不？
: 我先提问，请给出这段话的来源，和你想证明啥结论？
:
: absolute
: California
: %
: from
|
f**********n
发帖数: 29853 | 33 这段话，就是鸡兄典型的胡搅蛮缠，每辩驳一次，过不久就又出来一次，一个字都不改。
在亚裔诉哈佛的brief里，有这样的推理。
1, 在1976年和1978年之间，新生班级里亚裔的比例从3.6%增加到了6.5%，这个和大规
模 增加的亚裔申请率重合。(插一句，这个大概又会有人说，增长不大嘛，兄弟，想清
楚，这增长是(6.5-3.6)/3.6. 巨大，惊人的增长)
2,不顾这个增长，哈佛大学提高了亚裔学生的录取标准。
3,在1983年，一个在哈佛招生办公室工作过的本科生写了个报告“不可能的录取”。调
查了25个大学，发现，尽管亚裔对哈佛和其他大学的申请大幅增加， 亚裔的录取 几
乎完全没有增加。
现在鸡兄是以全美西裔人口的比例，来直接对照哈佛的西裔学生比例。这当中缺了一个
申请哈佛的西裔学生比例和数目。
另外，我在研究密州录取的时候，就发现用总人口数目非常不妥，因为适龄人口数和总
人口数目关系很小。鸡兄在这问题上和我纠缠好久适龄人口该是17还是18岁，可见她明
白这个道理，但他的西裔哈佛论述里照样缺了一个适龄西裔人口数目。
他明白又怎么样呢？物转星移，搅拌依旧。
【在 u*****a 的大作中提到】
: 发信人: uvachja (鹤立鸡群), 信区: Parenting
: 标 题: Re: 【华裔迫切需要关注的大学入学AA】
: 发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue Jan 5 14:38:22 2016, 美东)
: 哈佛对西班牙裔的门槛仍然远远高于20年前
: 20年来美国适龄西班牙裔的人口增加了一倍多，但是哈佛西班牙裔比例一直在13%左右
: 不变
: 从 1970 年到 2014年，美国西班牙裔的人口增长了 4.5 倍之多。如果 1970 年哈佛西
: 班牙裔只占 4% 的话，那么 2014 年应该升到 22% 才没有歧视作怪呀。
: 人家西班牙裔的人口在2010 和 2014 年之间增加的人口数，比亚裔目前在美国的总合
: 还多。可被 哈佛录取的比例，根本没有变化!
|
w*********o
发帖数: 3030 | 34 Really funny to see anti-AA IDs jump to safeguard the reputation of
hispanics. |
f**********n
发帖数: 29853 | 35 胡说，我的“天道酬勤“解释了一切。
【在 w*********o 的大作中提到】
: Really funny to see anti-AA IDs jump to safeguard the reputation of
: hispanics.
|
u*****a
发帖数: 6276 | 36 发信人: uvachja (鹤立鸡群), 信区: Parenting
标 题: Re: 【华裔迫切需要关注的大学入学AA】
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue Jan 5 15:36:39 2016, 美东)
你是从中国农村出来的吗？咋这么看不起俺们乡下人？！
即使你城里人聪明，俺们村里人笨，可架不住俺们村人多啊。你生一个，我生十个。你
的孩子凭啥比我的孩子聪明十倍呀？
你有什么证据说明你们城里人生出来的人都是精英，俺们村里人生出来的都是鼠辈呀？
歧视啊！
俺村里的总人口虽然没你们城里多，但也有诺贝尔奖得主：
Mexico：
Mario José Molina Henríquez*, Chemistry, 1995
Octavio Paz Lozano, Literature, 1990
Alfonso García Robles, Peace, 1982
你凭啥说就你们城里人聪明啊？哈佛大学的大门，又不是只给你们城里人开的。
【在 t******l 的大作中提到】
: 我觉得他是想拿票仓吓人。
|
w*********o
发帖数: 3030 | 37 Confucius has nothing to do with US history or current US political reality.
Are you saying Hernandez sponsored SCA5 because he thinks Hispanic American
in California should work harder?
【在 f**********n 的大作中提到】
: 胡说，我的“天道酬勤“解释了一切。
|
f**********n
发帖数: 29853 | 38 任何努力工作的人都应该得到回报。
大部分华人重视教育，搅拌鸡的外族裔小孩努力学习，都应该得到尊重和回报。任何基
于种族的特殊优待政策都是对努力的人的侮辱。
是为，天道酬勤。
reality.
American
【在 w*********o 的大作中提到】
: Confucius has nothing to do with US history or current US political reality.
: Are you saying Hernandez sponsored SCA5 because he thinks Hispanic American
: in California should work harder?
|
t*******d
发帖数: 12895 | 39 你反SCA5, 真的？
如果真的，但你支持AA
你精神分裂还是带任务？
【在 w*********o 的大作中提到】
: I am against SCA5. You have no idea how things work in real world.
|
w*********o
发帖数: 3030 | 40 If you couldn't comprehend the fact that somebody could be anti-SCA5 and not
buying into those anti-AA crap you have been selling, I am not sure
thinking harder would do you any good.
【在 t*******d 的大作中提到】
: 你反SCA5, 真的？
: 如果真的，但你支持AA
: 你精神分裂还是带任务？
|
|
|
z***e
发帖数: 1757 | 41 Your problem is that you never offer up anything substantive or add to the
discussion. All you did is being dismissive to others. If you want to
clarify your positions with respect to SCA5 and anti-race-based preferential
treatment we are against here, we are all ears.
not
【在 w*********o 的大作中提到】
: If you couldn't comprehend the fact that somebody could be anti-SCA5 and not
: buying into those anti-AA crap you have been selling, I am not sure
: thinking harder would do you any good.
|
z***e
发帖数: 1757 | 42 While we are at it, you still have not answered question below or clarify
your statement further below.
SCA5要修改加州宪法，取消加州对种族优待的禁止。哪里提到social economic
disadvantaged? 现在加州宪法并不禁止对social economic disadvantages的优待，压
根就不需要SCA5
【在 z***e 的大作中提到】
: SCA5要修改加州宪法，取消加州对种族优待的禁止。哪里提到social economic
: disadvantaged? 现在加州宪法并不禁止对social economic disadvantages的优待，压
: 根就不需要SCA5
|
m**n
发帖数: 9010 | 43 他是有你说的这个问题.
不过他前面面对的是一个问"你精神分裂还是带任务"的同学,
是动不动就出来质疑并要求别人个人信息的同学.
如果那么说话不是你的喜好, 我建议你谨慎使用"we".
preferential
【在 z***e 的大作中提到】
: Your problem is that you never offer up anything substantive or add to the
: discussion. All you did is being dismissive to others. If you want to
: clarify your positions with respect to SCA5 and anti-race-based preferential
: treatment we are against here, we are all ears.
:
: not
|
w**d
发帖数: 2334 | 44 not sure if he was trying to represent anyone, but using too many I's isn't
good at all,
unless you are in a right position to be forceful, or if you want to sound
forceful
【在 m**n 的大作中提到】
: 他是有你说的这个问题.
: 不过他前面面对的是一个问"你精神分裂还是带任务"的同学,
: 是动不动就出来质疑并要求别人个人信息的同学.
: 如果那么说话不是你的喜好, 我建议你谨慎使用"we".
:
: preferential
|
m**n
发帖数: 9010 | 45 当然我不认为他/她在想代表谁.
我的贴子也不是真的针对zhyue同学.
我只是表达了, 如果是我, 会避免使用让人觉得我与某人
是"我们"的这种说法.
比如, 可以把"we"换成"people".
't
【在 w**d 的大作中提到】
: not sure if he was trying to represent anyone, but using too many I's isn't
: good at all,
: unless you are in a right position to be forceful, or if you want to sound
: forceful
|
t*******d
发帖数: 12895 | 46 要求别人个人信息? 真的？怎么要求的？
【在 m**n 的大作中提到】
: 当然我不认为他/她在想代表谁.
: 我的贴子也不是真的针对zhyue同学.
: 我只是表达了, 如果是我, 会避免使用让人觉得我与某人
: 是"我们"的这种说法.
: 比如, 可以把"we"换成"people".
:
: 't
|
w*********o
发帖数: 3030 | 47 I have clarified my understanding of the difference between SCA5 and the
Harvard case (back drop of current anti-AA campaign on this website) long,
long time ago. You can look it up if you are interested in my opinion, but I
highly doubt that.
I have no interest in repeating myself, especially when it is clear to me
that nobody here is really discussing anything.
I also stopped asking IDs to stop using "we" unless the "we" comes with
detailed clarification, since I might be racial profiling IDs who like to
use "we" to strengthen their arguments.
preferential
【在 z***e 的大作中提到】
: Your problem is that you never offer up anything substantive or add to the
: discussion. All you did is being dismissive to others. If you want to
: clarify your positions with respect to SCA5 and anti-race-based preferential
: treatment we are against here, we are all ears.
:
: not
|
w*********o
发帖数: 3030 | 48 I believe that if passed, the only group that would benefit from SCA5 (or
anything similar) are Hispanic Americans in CA, at the expense of all other
people and the public college education system of CA. In reality, Hispanic
Americans are not a minority group, especially in CA.
【在 z***e 的大作中提到】
: While we are at it, you still have not answered question below or clarify
: your statement further below.
:
: SCA5要修改加州宪法，取消加州对种族优待的禁止。哪里提到social economic
: disadvantaged? 现在加州宪法并不禁止对social economic disadvantages的优待，压
: 根就不需要SCA5
|
z***e
发帖数: 1757 | 49 Why are you against Hispanic in CA? Are they counted as "diversity" in your
book or may be not? So you are against one case of race-based preferential
treatment (SCA5, presumably proposed only for the benefits of Hispanics in
your view; not that I agree), but you are for race-based preferential
treatment in other cases? Where do you draw the line? You said Hispanics are
not minority, so in your book only African Americans can receive race-based
preferential treatment, because they are true "minority" (I am leaving
native Indians out for this purpose)?
other
【在 w*********o 的大作中提到】
: I believe that if passed, the only group that would benefit from SCA5 (or
: anything similar) are Hispanic Americans in CA, at the expense of all other
: people and the public college education system of CA. In reality, Hispanic
: Americans are not a minority group, especially in CA.
|
w**d
发帖数: 2334 | 50 read his post one more time. there is certain ambiguity, but very hard to
be crystal clear.
you gotta use 'some people' in some places, and 'people' in some other
places.
even worse, do we need to be specific when we use “you" every time?
【在 m**n 的大作中提到】
: 当然我不认为他/她在想代表谁.
: 我的贴子也不是真的针对zhyue同学.
: 我只是表达了, 如果是我, 会避免使用让人觉得我与某人
: 是"我们"的这种说法.
: 比如, 可以把"we"换成"people".
:
: 't
|
|
|
m**n
发帖数: 9010 | 51 他前面回答了你这个"why"吧. 他说他认为Hispanic在CA不是minority group.
他也已经对race-based preferentialrace-based preferential treatment
"draw the line"了.
你真正需要问的, 是他如何对minority group的确认"draw the line".
your
are
based
【在 z***e 的大作中提到】
: Why are you against Hispanic in CA? Are they counted as "diversity" in your
: book or may be not? So you are against one case of race-based preferential
: treatment (SCA5, presumably proposed only for the benefits of Hispanics in
: your view; not that I agree), but you are for race-based preferential
: treatment in other cases? Where do you draw the line? You said Hispanics are
: not minority, so in your book only African Americans can receive race-based
: preferential treatment, because they are true "minority" (I am leaving
: native Indians out for this purpose)?
:
: other
|
m**n
发帖数: 9010 | 52 所以我只是建议么. 而且我针对显然不是他, 只是借着"建议"说句话而已.
换句话说, 如果当时我是他, 我用了"we", 然后有人指责我:
"你们怎么那么爱去拿别人身份做文章"的话;
我是很难用"噢, 那不是我, 是别人"来反驳的, 因为这个反驳
会直接招来"那你刚才说we的时候想什么呢"?
正因为我从来不愿意为别人说的话负责, 所以我很注意这方面.
而"some people"与"people"的差别, 基本没人会拿出来针对说话
者挑理儿.
【在 w**d 的大作中提到】
: read his post one more time. there is certain ambiguity, but very hard to
: be crystal clear.
: you gotta use 'some people' in some places, and 'people' in some other
: places.
: even worse, do we need to be specific when we use “you" every time?
|
w*********o
发帖数: 3030 | 53 I am not against Hispanic in CA. I just called out an apple to be an apple,
SCA5 was proposed to benefit Hispanics in CA.
There are definitely "race-based preferential treatment" cases because of
the affirmative action at federal level. I just don't think those cases
were at the expense of Chinese Americans. And I also believe the situation
of Chinese American would be worse, not better without those cases.
Chinese Americans are a minority group. That's a fact. Without equal
representations, the rules can be easily adjusted against any minority group.
your
are
based
【在 z***e 的大作中提到】
: Why are you against Hispanic in CA? Are they counted as "diversity" in your
: book or may be not? So you are against one case of race-based preferential
: treatment (SCA5, presumably proposed only for the benefits of Hispanics in
: your view; not that I agree), but you are for race-based preferential
: treatment in other cases? Where do you draw the line? You said Hispanics are
: not minority, so in your book only African Americans can receive race-based
: preferential treatment, because they are true "minority" (I am leaving
: native Indians out for this purpose)?
:
: other
|
w**d
发帖数: 2334 | 54 不扯了，最后又是我只挑这些人的刺，而 你只挑那些人的刺。
然后就是看你屁股占哪边。
【在 m**n 的大作中提到】
: 所以我只是建议么. 而且我针对显然不是他, 只是借着"建议"说句话而已.
: 换句话说, 如果当时我是他, 我用了"we", 然后有人指责我:
: "你们怎么那么爱去拿别人身份做文章"的话;
: 我是很难用"噢, 那不是我, 是别人"来反驳的, 因为这个反驳
: 会直接招来"那你刚才说we的时候想什么呢"?
: 正因为我从来不愿意为别人说的话负责, 所以我很注意这方面.
: 而"some people"与"people"的差别, 基本没人会拿出来针对说话
: 者挑理儿.
|
w*********o
发帖数: 3030 | 55 When I say Hispanics are not a minority group in CA, I didn't imagine that:
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06000.html |
t*******d
发帖数: 12895 | 56 为什么黑人不会受益？
other
【在 w*********o 的大作中提到】
: I believe that if passed, the only group that would benefit from SCA5 (or
: anything similar) are Hispanic Americans in CA, at the expense of all other
: people and the public college education system of CA. In reality, Hispanic
: Americans are not a minority group, especially in CA.
|
m**n
发帖数: 9010 | 57 只要你刺挑的没什么问题，那么你不挑我的刺，我就不会太在意。
挑点刺很正常，过了就不好了。
我更在意的是挑的方式 - 就算你我立场不同，你挑的方式属于我不反感的话，
我照样不找你麻烦。
【在 w**d 的大作中提到】
: 不扯了，最后又是我只挑这些人的刺，而 你只挑那些人的刺。
: 然后就是看你屁股占哪边。
|
t*******d
发帖数: 12895 | 58 属实
【在 w**d 的大作中提到】
: 不扯了，最后又是我只挑这些人的刺，而 你只挑那些人的刺。
: 然后就是看你屁股占哪边。
|
w*********o
发帖数: 3030 | 59 US colleges are easy to get in, difficult to get out.
Even if AA were strictly enforced and the percentage of African American
students were increased by force, I suspect those who got pulled in most
likely won't have the family and community support to pull through and
graduate. Indian American might have similar issues. It is a different story
for Hispanic community, which are really religious, have strong family
values and respect women.
【在 t*******d 的大作中提到】
: 为什么黑人不会受益？
:
: other
|
z***e
发帖数: 1757 | 60 why does this matter? Proponents of SCA5 claimed that they are under-
represented in California higher education institutions, especially those at
the top. Yes, they are a big part of the population, but only represent a
relatively small part of the college students population. So they wanted
race-based preferential treatment.
Furthermore, the proposed amendment to CA constitution did not say Hispanics
only. It tried to revere the ban for use of race. It could benefit African
Americans too, if used for that purpose by someone.
【在 w*********o 的大作中提到】
: When I say Hispanics are not a minority group in CA, I didn't imagine that:
: http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06000.html
|
|
|
t*******d
发帖数: 12895 | 61 讨论的焦点不就是大学入学AA吗？
那你为什么在加州要反AA（反SCA5），而全国范围要支持AA？
story
value
【在 w*********o 的大作中提到】
: US colleges are easy to get in, difficult to get out.
: Even if AA were strictly enforced and the percentage of African American
: students were increased by force, I suspect those who got pulled in most
: likely won't have the family and community support to pull through and
: graduate. Indian American might have similar issues. It is a different story
: for Hispanic community, which are really religious, have strong family
: values and respect women.
|
z***e
发帖数: 1757 | 62 So you buy into the mis-match theory. Then why you endorse the application
of race-based preferential treatment as applicable to African American, if
you admit to the effect predicted by mis-match theory?
story
【在 w*********o 的大作中提到】
: US colleges are easy to get in, difficult to get out.
: Even if AA were strictly enforced and the percentage of African American
: students were increased by force, I suspect those who got pulled in most
: likely won't have the family and community support to pull through and
: graduate. Indian American might have similar issues. It is a different story
: for Hispanic community, which are really religious, have strong family
: values and respect women.
|
z***e
发帖数: 1757 | 63 point well taken. obviously I am not the only one here advocating against
race-based preferential treatment.
【在 m**n 的大作中提到】
: 他是有你说的这个问题.
: 不过他前面面对的是一个问"你精神分裂还是带任务"的同学,
: 是动不动就出来质疑并要求别人个人信息的同学.
: 如果那么说话不是你的喜好, 我建议你谨慎使用"we".
:
: preferential
|
w*********o
发帖数: 3030 | 64 US is a federation and all politics are local.,
AA impacts far beyond college admission.
【在 t*******d 的大作中提到】
: 讨论的焦点不就是大学入学AA吗？
: 那你为什么在加州要反AA（反SCA5），而全国范围要支持AA？
:
: story
: value
|
z***e
发帖数: 1757 | 65 SCA 5 很明确，白纸黑字的写了，要取消在California state public university
system对use of race的ban。你这句"AA impacts far beyond college admission"怎
么理解？
【在 w*********o 的大作中提到】
: US is a federation and all politics are local.,
: AA impacts far beyond college admission.
|
w*********o
发帖数: 3030 | 66 You keep on using the term "race-based preferential treatment". However,
this is not a term appears anywhere in real policy. I agree it is part of
the consequence of current affirmative action policy (intended or non-
intended). You are painting it as if it is carries the same meaning as
affirmative action and something that can be interchanged freely.
【在 z***e 的大作中提到】
: So you buy into the mis-match theory. Then why you endorse the application
: of race-based preferential treatment as applicable to African American, if
: you admit to the effect predicted by mis-match theory?
:
: story
|
w*********o
发帖数: 3030 | 67 Well, you don't need to disclose your race, your age, your marital status,
religious affiliation, etc, etc when you vote, apply for jobs, get married,
have children ...
【在 z***e 的大作中提到】
: SCA 5 很明确，白纸黑字的写了，要取消在California state public university
: system对use of race的ban。你这句"AA impacts far beyond college admission"怎
: 么理解？
|
z***e
发帖数: 1757 | 68 I want to be specific as to what I am against. Supreme Court is specific too
. This is the kind of phrases appear in their opinions. I certainly do not
feel it can be interchanged freely with "affirmative action" when used, and
I think I can not be more clear on that point, and do not understand why you
think otherwise.
If you look at other posts on this board, you will see that distinction is
made quite clear by others.
【在 w*********o 的大作中提到】
: You keep on using the term "race-based preferential treatment". However,
: this is not a term appears anywhere in real policy. I agree it is part of
: the consequence of current affirmative action policy (intended or non-
: intended). You are painting it as if it is carries the same meaning as
: affirmative action and something that can be interchanged freely.
|
z***e
发帖数: 1757 | 69 but what is the relationship between that and your stance against SCA 5
while agreeing to affirmative action nationwide? You need to make your logic
clear and easy to follow. Otherwise it is hard to keep this conversation. I
can not have to guess your rationale each time.
,
【在 w*********o 的大作中提到】
: Well, you don't need to disclose your race, your age, your marital status,
: religious affiliation, etc, etc when you vote, apply for jobs, get married,
: have children ...
|
w*********o
发帖数: 3030 | 70 There is difference between opinion and policy. You can enforce a policy,
not an opinion.
In an ideal world, it might be possible to achieve equal representation
without preferential treatment of anybody. But we live in a real world. I
don't think it is healthy to dwell on the perceived "unfair" treatment, for
a person or for a people.
too
and
you
【在 z***e 的大作中提到】
: I want to be specific as to what I am against. Supreme Court is specific too
: . This is the kind of phrases appear in their opinions. I certainly do not
: feel it can be interchanged freely with "affirmative action" when used, and
: I think I can not be more clear on that point, and do not understand why you
: think otherwise.
: If you look at other posts on this board, you will see that distinction is
: made quite clear by others.
|
|
|
z***e
发帖数: 1757 | 71 I would say this. In an ideal world, it might be possible to achieve the
goal you are trying to achieve with such policy, but we live in a real world
, the consequence of the application of such policy is harmful to the
society at large, in my opinion. Just look at who benefited from such policy
. No need to look further than the recent NYT article last week on UM policy
. Two of the three minority students interviewed were from rich/upper-middle
class families. Do they really need race conscious admission policy or
affirmative action (since that is your preferred term)?
for |
w*********o
发帖数: 3030 | 72 My logic has always been simple, SCA5 is especially bad for Chinese
Americans in CA, on top of bad for everybody in CA other than Hispanics.
Affirmative Action is good for Chinese American and for US in general.
logic
I
【在 z***e 的大作中提到】
: but what is the relationship between that and your stance against SCA 5
: while agreeing to affirmative action nationwide? You need to make your logic
: clear and easy to follow. Otherwise it is hard to keep this conversation. I
: can not have to guess your rationale each time.
:
: ,
|
z***e
发帖数: 1757 | 73 well, let me ask you this. Would you characterize your standing on this
issue as that you are for the use of race in other aspects of the life (such
as, you can fill the blank yourself here, employment or whatever you like),
but you are against the use of race in college admission? I ask because I
can't find an example where use of race in college admission is good for
Chinese Americans. If you say yes, then maybe we finally have some common
ground. If you say no, would you care to further clarify?
【在 w*********o 的大作中提到】
: My logic has always been simple, SCA5 is especially bad for Chinese
: Americans in CA, on top of bad for everybody in CA other than Hispanics.
: Affirmative Action is good for Chinese American and for US in general.
:
: logic
: I
|
t*******d
发帖数: 12895 | 74 请focus on大学入学AA（依种族区别对待）
【在 w*********o 的大作中提到】
: My logic has always been simple, SCA5 is especially bad for Chinese
: Americans in CA, on top of bad for everybody in CA other than Hispanics.
: Affirmative Action is good for Chinese American and for US in general.
:
: logic
: I
|
w*********o
发帖数: 3030 | 75 So those two of the three minority students interviewed were from rich/upper
-middle class played the system and took the seats that could have gone to
other people in the same minority group. The policy might not be implemented
100% right. But I don't think you could postulate that into harming the
society.
Also, you are trying to use selective, specific samples to draw general
conclusions. The same kind of arguments were used to try to demonize social
walfare because of abuse of the system by some people. Most things are not
in black and white, but in all shades of grey. IDs on mitbbs and huaren tend
to bash the Welfare system of CA and NY, except when they worry about their
care of their elderly parents.
world
policy
policy
middle
【在 z***e 的大作中提到】
: I would say this. In an ideal world, it might be possible to achieve the
: goal you are trying to achieve with such policy, but we live in a real world
: , the consequence of the application of such policy is harmful to the
: society at large, in my opinion. Just look at who benefited from such policy
: . No need to look further than the recent NYT article last week on UM policy
: . Two of the three minority students interviewed were from rich/upper-middle
: class families. Do they really need race conscious admission policy or
: affirmative action (since that is your preferred term)?
: for
|
t*******d
发帖数: 12895 | 76 http://www.mitbbs.com/article_t/Parenting/32694101.html
http://www.mitbbs.com/article_t/Parenting/32690283.html
and see how it is harming the society.
upper
implemented
social
tend
their
【在 w*********o 的大作中提到】
: So those two of the three minority students interviewed were from rich/upper
: -middle class played the system and took the seats that could have gone to
: other people in the same minority group. The policy might not be implemented
: 100% right. But I don't think you could postulate that into harming the
: society.
: Also, you are trying to use selective, specific samples to draw general
: conclusions. The same kind of arguments were used to try to demonize social
: walfare because of abuse of the system by some people. Most things are not
: in black and white, but in all shades of grey. IDs on mitbbs and huaren tend
: to bash the Welfare system of CA and NY, except when they worry about their
|
z***e
发帖数: 1757 | 77 I mentioned those kids just as an example, a quite convenient example from a
pro-race-based policy journalist. The harm to the society is documented in
mis-match theory (did you say you believe in that?) and other theories. I am
going to use the NYT article as an example again. There were many white and
asian kids in Michigan who are from low-income family but with not-
excellent but respectable academic record, and guess what UM did? When they
found out their use low-income level as a factor in admission, they would
get many white and asian kids, which result apparently was not favored by UM
admission folks, so they stopped doing that. What is the cost to society
here? The cost is that those kids did not get a chance to pursue the
education they deserve, while the two preferred "minority" get in despite
their upper-mid class status. Again, this is just an example, and a quite
vivid example. I don't have statistics on how many low-income kids would
have get into UM if they did not stop their experiment, but I guess UM has.
You can ask them.
upper
implemented
social
tend
their
【在 w*********o 的大作中提到】
: So those two of the three minority students interviewed were from rich/upper
: -middle class played the system and took the seats that could have gone to
: other people in the same minority group. The policy might not be implemented
: 100% right. But I don't think you could postulate that into harming the
: society.
: Also, you are trying to use selective, specific samples to draw general
: conclusions. The same kind of arguments were used to try to demonize social
: walfare because of abuse of the system by some people. Most things are not
: in black and white, but in all shades of grey. IDs on mitbbs and huaren tend
: to bash the Welfare system of CA and NY, except when they worry about their
|
w*********o
发帖数: 3030 | 78 It really doesn't matter how you craft your argument when in reality, united
states is a better country now (with AA) than before (without AA).
【在 t*******d 的大作中提到】
: http://www.mitbbs.com/article_t/Parenting/32694101.html
: http://www.mitbbs.com/article_t/Parenting/32690283.html
: and see how it is harming the society.
:
: upper
: implemented
: social
: tend
: their
|
t*******d
发帖数: 12895 | 79 这逻辑！
united
【在 w*********o 的大作中提到】
: It really doesn't matter how you craft your argument when in reality, united
: states is a better country now (with AA) than before (without AA).
|
z***e
发帖数: 1757 | 80 捉急了就出这种没有论证没有逻辑的口号了。恐怕不能服人。对了，我在19点27问你的
问题还等你解答。
united
【在 w*********o 的大作中提到】
: It really doesn't matter how you craft your argument when in reality, united
: states is a better country now (with AA) than before (without AA).
|
|
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w*********o
发帖数: 3030 | 81 I was just commenting the fact he used his arguments as if they were proof
of anything.
I don't see any specific question, but your personal opinions on a specific
matter, even if you phrased as if there were some questions somewhere.
【在 z***e 的大作中提到】
: 捉急了就出这种没有论证没有逻辑的口号了。恐怕不能服人。对了，我在19点27问你的
: 问题还等你解答。
:
: united
|
b*****o
发帖数: 6080 | 82 哇，密歇根大学居然这么做！
的确，这么一来，这两个从种族aa政策中无端得益的种族的小孩会越来越懒越没志气，
还总是
充满victomhood 和entitlement.
高校录取者以及政客中的左派把自己当成大自然母亲或者God 了。也难怪这个国家一直
下坡路走着。
发信人: bepsazo (崭新), 信区: Parenting
标 题: Re: AA对亚裔也有好处
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Wed Dec 30 11:54:08 2015, 美东)
这只能解释为什么有些亚裔女faculty拼死护卫种族aa，并不能说明对亚裔整体是有利
的。等你或你的小朋友们因为肤色被种族多样化雇主拒之门外的时候，你就知道了。
而且，说到底，反对按照种族aa，也并非完全因为aa对亚裔利益有伤害，而是对美国社
会整体发展弊大于利。最大的弊端，是失去社会公平，在入学和工作上建立起种族贵族
。很多人都认可，为了有利社会流动，不埋没人才，可以考虑家庭收入和财产。在美国
，因为历史原因，造成很多黑人居住区偏穷学区差，（我们可以先把黑人也应该反思自
己自强自爱的话放一边，单从平衡因起点差异大造成的结果不公平角度看问题），但是
应该看到也有白西亚裔小朋友生长在差区，也有很多黑人小朋友长在好区，所以按学区
比例录取，同时考虑家庭收入，是美国目前最公平的录取办法。还有很多很多事实，足
以证实种族aa的荒谬，比如，美国早已不象当初，黑白二色，现在是多种族混血，象前
面有人问到的，混血儿应该如何算种族？
a
in
am
and
they
UM |
w*********o
发帖数: 3030 | 83 I see you changed the phrase into "race conscience". I can only say good
luck on forcing your standard of conscience on other people. I have said
from the very beginning, the situation of Chinese American is a battle of
public opinion and the Harvard fiasco (and the anti-AA stand some IDs took)
make the situation worse.
AA sort of defines a lower limit of the minority representation and there is
no clear upper limit. When you try to sell the idea of "unfair college
admission" to the public, people would not stop at some scores, but also
look at the enrollment percentage. Even though they maynot say it to your
face, it won't stop them from thinking how much more do you want and at
whose expense.
world
policy
policy
middle
【在 z***e 的大作中提到】
: I would say this. In an ideal world, it might be possible to achieve the
: goal you are trying to achieve with such policy, but we live in a real world
: , the consequence of the application of such policy is harmful to the
: society at large, in my opinion. Just look at who benefited from such policy
: . No need to look further than the recent NYT article last week on UM policy
: . Two of the three minority students interviewed were from rich/upper-middle
: class families. Do they really need race conscious admission policy or
: affirmative action (since that is your preferred term)?
: for
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z***e
发帖数: 1757 | 84 did I say conscience? must be a typo. I meant race conscious admission
policy, which is the phrase used in oral argument at Supreme Court.
)
is
【在 w*********o 的大作中提到】
: I see you changed the phrase into "race conscience". I can only say good
: luck on forcing your standard of conscience on other people. I have said
: from the very beginning, the situation of Chinese American is a battle of
: public opinion and the Harvard fiasco (and the anti-AA stand some IDs took)
: make the situation worse.
: AA sort of defines a lower limit of the minority representation and there is
: no clear upper limit. When you try to sell the idea of "unfair college
: admission" to the public, people would not stop at some scores, but also
: look at the enrollment percentage. Even though they maynot say it to your
: face, it won't stop them from thinking how much more do you want and at
|
z***e
发帖数: 1757 | 85 I am clear in what I want. I can not stop "others" from thinking what I want
. I do not understand what you meant by lower or upper limit. so no comment
there.
is
【在 w*********o 的大作中提到】
: I see you changed the phrase into "race conscience". I can only say good
: luck on forcing your standard of conscience on other people. I have said
: from the very beginning, the situation of Chinese American is a battle of
: public opinion and the Harvard fiasco (and the anti-AA stand some IDs took)
: make the situation worse.
: AA sort of defines a lower limit of the minority representation and there is
: no clear upper limit. When you try to sell the idea of "unfair college
: admission" to the public, people would not stop at some scores, but also
: look at the enrollment percentage. Even though they maynot say it to your
: face, it won't stop them from thinking how much more do you want and at
|
w*********o
发帖数: 3030 | 86 I had the typo. I meant conscious, which is not enforceable by any means.
【在 z***e 的大作中提到】
: did I say conscience? must be a typo. I meant race conscious admission
: policy, which is the phrase used in oral argument at Supreme Court.
:
: )
: is
|
z***e
发帖数: 1757 | 87 I prefer the term race based preferential treatment, but I can not control
what term the judges and lawyers for both sides want to use. but you know
what I refer to.
【在 w*********o 的大作中提到】
: I had the typo. I meant conscious, which is not enforceable by any means.
|
w*********o
发帖数: 3030 | 88 In order to get what you want, you have to have other people's support.
Otherwise, you might get opposite of what you want.
In this case, I don't think anybody else would really appreciate the anti-
college-AA stand coming from some Asian Americans.
want
comment
【在 z***e 的大作中提到】
: I am clear in what I want. I can not stop "others" from thinking what I want
: . I do not understand what you meant by lower or upper limit. so no comment
: there.
:
: is
|
w*********o
发帖数: 3030 | 89 That term is not that good either.
When the complain comes from non-jewish, non-hispanic white, it sounds like
sour grapes, but they do have a case. When the complain comes from Asian
American, it sounds selfish and greedy. Complaining about good things happen
to other people is never good. It's just not the right fight to pick.
【在 z***e 的大作中提到】
: I prefer the term race based preferential treatment, but I can not control
: what term the judges and lawyers for both sides want to use. but you know
: what I refer to.
|
z***e
发帖数: 1757 | 90 you may not appreciate it, but I take comfort from the fact that I know
others who appreciate it. I do not see what "opposite" we will get. I am
optimistic.
【在 w*********o 的大作中提到】
: In order to get what you want, you have to have other people's support.
: Otherwise, you might get opposite of what you want.
: In this case, I don't think anybody else would really appreciate the anti-
: college-AA stand coming from some Asian Americans.
:
: want
: comment
|
|
|
t*******d
发帖数: 12895 | 91 是的，期待Fisher案结果。
【在 z***e 的大作中提到】
: you may not appreciate it, but I take comfort from the fact that I know
: others who appreciate it. I do not see what "opposite" we will get. I am
: optimistic.
|
z***e
发帖数: 1757 | 92 interesting. why whites have a case but not asians? I ageee that non-jewish
non- hispanic whites are the biggest looser in current system, but asians
are held back by the system as well. As I said earlier, in my mind getting
rid of race consideration is just first step.I will deal with other implicit
biases against asians one step a time.
like
happen
【在 w*********o 的大作中提到】
: That term is not that good either.
: When the complain comes from non-jewish, non-hispanic white, it sounds like
: sour grapes, but they do have a case. When the complain comes from Asian
: American, it sounds selfish and greedy. Complaining about good things happen
: to other people is never good. It's just not the right fight to pick.
|
w*********o
发帖数: 3030 | 93 How about less percentage than the current percentage Asian American have?
The current standard of practice (race included) can very well be replaced
by something worse for Asian Americans, or Chinese Americans in particular
since it would be some kind of compromise. And how about even less Chinese
American in politics, hold public offices since there is no need to enforce
equal representation any more. Like I said, way beyond college.
At least you admit you are relying on your optimism, not trying to sell it
as certainty.
【在 z***e 的大作中提到】
: you may not appreciate it, but I take comfort from the fact that I know
: others who appreciate it. I do not see what "opposite" we will get. I am
: optimistic.
|
z***e
发帖数: 1757 | 94 你这是没有根据的危言耸听，来吓唬人的。有根据的话，列出来。
Chinese
enforce
【在 w*********o 的大作中提到】
: How about less percentage than the current percentage Asian American have?
: The current standard of practice (race included) can very well be replaced
: by something worse for Asian Americans, or Chinese Americans in particular
: since it would be some kind of compromise. And how about even less Chinese
: American in politics, hold public offices since there is no need to enforce
: equal representation any more. Like I said, way beyond college.
: At least you admit you are relying on your optimism, not trying to sell it
: as certainty.
|
z***e
发帖数: 1757 | 95 另外我还是没有理解您为什么反对加州的SCA5缺支持在其他地方大学入学的种族优待。
可否再详细解释一下。您提到hispanics在加州不是minority, 可人家觉得人家在加州
大学里的学生中的比例低了。是您觉得hispanics不如非裔值得优待吗？
Chinese
enforce
【在 w*********o 的大作中提到】
: How about less percentage than the current percentage Asian American have?
: The current standard of practice (race included) can very well be replaced
: by something worse for Asian Americans, or Chinese Americans in particular
: since it would be some kind of compromise. And how about even less Chinese
: American in politics, hold public offices since there is no need to enforce
: equal representation any more. Like I said, way beyond college.
: At least you admit you are relying on your optimism, not trying to sell it
: as certainty.
|
w*********o
发帖数: 3030 | 96 How many non-asian americans would agree that asian americans are held back
by current college admission system in US? Heck, how many asians really
think the college admission system (Gaokao or Gaokao-like) in their home
countries are better than US's system?
"bias" is a similar word like "conscious", you can't enforce your opinion on
others. In my eyes, your opinion that asians are held back by current
college admission system is a bias. So far, all the grievances have been
from not getting into the ideal colleges.
jewish
implicit
【在 z***e 的大作中提到】
: interesting. why whites have a case but not asians? I ageee that non-jewish
: non- hispanic whites are the biggest looser in current system, but asians
: are held back by the system as well. As I said earlier, in my mind getting
: rid of race consideration is just first step.I will deal with other implicit
: biases against asians one step a time.
:
: like
: happen
|
w*********o
发帖数: 3030 | 97 Affirmative action at federal level is to protect the equal representation
of a minority group. It is a guideline in spirit, nobody tells any school,
let alone private schools that they have to enforce certain numeric cut off.
Otherwise, there wouldn't be 20% asian americans in Harvard.
"hispanics在加州不是minority, 可人家觉得人家在加州大学里的学生中的比例低了。
" -- that's why SCA5 won't fly, because it doesn't make sense.
I think affirmative action was and is about representation, not one minority
vs. another minority. It is not what I think who deserves what, it's what
everybody could agree on. Looks to me that current main stream opinion is
that African American community need all the help they can get, including AA
.
【在 z***e 的大作中提到】
: 另外我还是没有理解您为什么反对加州的SCA5缺支持在其他地方大学入学的种族优待。
: 可否再详细解释一下。您提到hispanics在加州不是minority, 可人家觉得人家在加州
: 大学里的学生中的比例低了。是您觉得hispanics不如非裔值得优待吗？
:
: Chinese
: enforce
|
