f**********c
发帖数: 15 | 1 从2010-2015年，legacy的录取率34%，一般人是6%。
“From 2010 to 2015, Harvard’s admission rate for legacies was 34%, while
its admission rate for non-legacies was 6%.”
每五个白人中一个是legacy录取进来的，而这个数字黑人是4.8%，亚裔6.6%,西裔7%。
“Not surprisingly, legacy applicants are likely to be white. More than one-
fifth of white applicants admitted to Harvard between 2010 and 2015 were
legacies. By comparison, only 4.8% of African American students admitted
were legacies. The rate was only slightly higher among Asian American
students (6.6%) and Hispanic students (7%). ”
根据数据数据亚裔女性录取机会比白人女性略有优势
In fact, analyses of the data（有数据来源的网址） show that Asian American
women had a small advantage over white women, although the difference was
not statistically significant.
source：Harvard may discriminate against Asian Americans, but its preference
for legacy students is the bigger problem.
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-lee-harvard-legacy-student-advantage-20180622-story.html
哈佛新生1/3是legacy学生
斯坦福legacy学生比一般学生多45%机会录取
“The case is the same at Stanford. In fact, across the top 30 schools in
the U.S., one review from 2011 discussed in the Washington Post found that
children of alumni "had a 45 percent greater chance of admission" than other
applicants."
source:Harvard's incoming freshman class is one-third legacy—here's why
that's a problem
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/06/harvards-incoming-class-is-one-third-legacy.
html
普林斯顿校友子弟41.7%录取率，一般人9.2%
In 2009, Princeton admitted 41.7% of legacy applicants—more than 4.5 times
the 9.2% rate of non-legacies.
legacy的学生SAT160分加分
At some schools, legacy preferences have an effect on admissions comparable
to other factors such as being a recruited athlete or affirmative action.
One study of three selective private research universities in the United
States showed the following effects (admissions disadvantage and advantage
in terms of SAT points on the new 1600-point scale):
Blacks: +230
Hispanics: +185
Asians: -50
Recruited athletes: +200
Legacies (children of alumni): +160[13]
虽然大部分美国民众反对，但是legacy的受益人占据议员和法院高位，因此保护这个制
度。
While the majority of Americans have been shown to strongly oppose legacy
admissions, its beneficiaries hold key positions in Congress and the
judiciary, protecting this practice from political and legal challenge.[20]
欧洲不许允许legacy制度。
Legacy preferences are generally not allowed in Europe.
加州大学体系90年代取消AA,包括legacy制度。
In the 1990s, the University of California's Board of Regents voted to ban
the use of affirmative action preferences throughout the system, and legacy
privilege was abandoned across the University of California system soon
after.[18]
source:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_preferences
legacy一定对捐款大有帮助吗？
MIT现在没有legacy制度，加州大学系没有legacy制度，但是得到的捐款和一些进性
legacy制度的学校差不多
Just To Be Clear: We Don’t Do Legacy
https://mitadmissions.org/blogs/entry/just-to-be-clear-we-dont-do-legacy/
https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2017/2/8/harvard-fundraising-tops-
stanford/
legacy都是校友子女吗？
有的学校只算本科生，有的学校研究生也算。有的学校只是对校友的子女，有的是外孙
子女，兄弟姐妹，外甥侄子外甥女侄女都算。
Schools vary in how broadly they extend legacy preferences, with some
schools granting this favor only to children of undergraduate alumni, while
other schools extend the favor to children, grandchildren, siblings, nephews
, and nieces of alumni of undergraduate and graduate programs.[2]
source：https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_preferences
哈佛的legacy只用在本科毕业生的孩子身上
"a group he defined as children of Harvard College alumni and Radcliffe
College alumnae."
source:https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2011/5/11/admissions-fitzsimmons-
legacy-legacies/
小道消息是普林研究生的子女也算
source：https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2011/5/11/admissions-fitzsimmons-
legacy-legacies/ |
d*****u
发帖数: 17243 | |
d**********6
发帖数: 382 | 3 应该的，大数据的结果。白人哈佛毕业后常年给母校捐款，小黄人毕业后就没影了，所
有孩子也是得到不同待遇。 |
M*******z
发帖数: 1 | 4 管我们屁事。华人的孩子只上UCLA，谁他妈闲得蛋疼上哈佛 |
d*****u
发帖数: 17243 | 5 美国下中产根本不羡慕哈佛，觉得跟自己生活无关。
不像中国贫困县的农村子弟也要考北大清华。 |
f**********c
发帖数: 15 | 6 认为哈佛招生歧视亚裔的人们，
为啥不反对legacy呢？
这才是不公平的大头。他们才占据最多的名额。
难道是不敢反对有钱有势的白人，但是欺负黑墨更容易？
MIT和UC系列不legacy，得到的校友捐款也不少。所以说捐款并非legacy的主要因素。
如果认真看过有关legacy的研究和wiki就会知道，legacy中白人多，是因为他们祖先时
代在美国的人数多。那时候排华法案和歧视黑人，亚裔和黑人能入读哈耶普的人数不多
，所以靠legacy的亚裔和黑人不多。
这实际是白人上层为了维持在美国把持议员和法院这些立法机构（美国法律体系中法官
判决也是法律的一部分），世代相传的政策。
所以华裔如果要想扩大影响力，在目前的AA制度下。华裔女生申哈佛（优势比白人女生
大），男生申哈佛艺术史专业，哲学专业（这是虎妈两个女儿读的专业。读哲学能做出
好的argument，美国的法庭是adversarial system就是双方deliver their best
arguments,法官是裁判。所以能做出好的argument是很重要的能力。艺术史是因为old
money的专业，进去能接交old money的子弟。比如威廉王子读这个专业。）亚裔男生学
艺术的少，会被AA照顾。然后毕业之后都考法学院。然后努力做议员和法官。然后他们
的子弟legacy继续读哈佛。
读医科和工程整体收入再高，也不能进入制定政策的群体，也不会因收入高而认为华裔
的社会地位也自然提高了。不能影响美国的政策，只会成为待宰的小肥羊。 |
h***n
发帖数: 1275 | 7 华男上了哈佛人家也不带你玩，毕业要么是马公，要么是个体户比如医生
华女你懂的，别说ABC女，一代国女来美国久了都看不起国男，不信你问问华人上的大
妈有几个把自己老公当回事的。
一代华女参加个白人里高等人西式婚礼，晚宴，high party都不稀奇，国男有几个见过
这世面的？
老中男在美国doomed
【在 f**********c 的大作中提到】
: 认为哈佛招生歧视亚裔的人们，
: 为啥不反对legacy呢？
: 这才是不公平的大头。他们才占据最多的名额。
: 难道是不敢反对有钱有势的白人，但是欺负黑墨更容易？
: MIT和UC系列不legacy，得到的校友捐款也不少。所以说捐款并非legacy的主要因素。
: 如果认真看过有关legacy的研究和wiki就会知道，legacy中白人多，是因为他们祖先时
: 代在美国的人数多。那时候排华法案和歧视黑人，亚裔和黑人能入读哈耶普的人数不多
: ，所以靠legacy的亚裔和黑人不多。
: 这实际是白人上层为了维持在美国把持议员和法院这些立法机构（美国法律体系中法官
: 判决也是法律的一部分），世代相传的政策。
|
j*****y
发帖数: 1916 | 8 你说的是20年前的情况。不要刻舟求剑了。
文贵就在Hudson上面开游艇，白妞左拥右抱。
【在 h***n 的大作中提到】
: 华男上了哈佛人家也不带你玩，毕业要么是马公，要么是个体户比如医生
: 华女你懂的，别说ABC女，一代国女来美国久了都看不起国男，不信你问问华人上的大
: 妈有几个把自己老公当回事的。
: 一代华女参加个白人里高等人西式婚礼，晚宴，high party都不稀奇，国男有几个见过
: 这世面的？
: 老中男在美国doomed
|
B*Q
发帖数: 25729 | 9 龙生龙凤生凤
老鼠的儿子会打洞
马公的儿子要想走这条路
得好几代人
【在 f**********c 的大作中提到】
: 认为哈佛招生歧视亚裔的人们，
: 为啥不反对legacy呢？
: 这才是不公平的大头。他们才占据最多的名额。
: 难道是不敢反对有钱有势的白人，但是欺负黑墨更容易？
: MIT和UC系列不legacy，得到的校友捐款也不少。所以说捐款并非legacy的主要因素。
: 如果认真看过有关legacy的研究和wiki就会知道，legacy中白人多，是因为他们祖先时
: 代在美国的人数多。那时候排华法案和歧视黑人，亚裔和黑人能入读哈耶普的人数不多
: ，所以靠legacy的亚裔和黑人不多。
: 这实际是白人上层为了维持在美国把持议员和法院这些立法机构（美国法律体系中法官
: 判决也是法律的一部分），世代相传的政策。
|
w*******2
发帖数: 2199 | 10 因为legacy录取目前不违反宪法
只能逐渐施压降低legacy比例
【在 f**********c 的大作中提到】
: 认为哈佛招生歧视亚裔的人们，
: 为啥不反对legacy呢？
: 这才是不公平的大头。他们才占据最多的名额。
: 难道是不敢反对有钱有势的白人，但是欺负黑墨更容易？
: MIT和UC系列不legacy，得到的校友捐款也不少。所以说捐款并非legacy的主要因素。
: 如果认真看过有关legacy的研究和wiki就会知道，legacy中白人多，是因为他们祖先时
: 代在美国的人数多。那时候排华法案和歧视黑人，亚裔和黑人能入读哈耶普的人数不多
: ，所以靠legacy的亚裔和黑人不多。
: 这实际是白人上层为了维持在美国把持议员和法院这些立法机构（美国法律体系中法官
: 判决也是法律的一部分），世代相传的政策。
|
|
|
f**********c
发帖数: 15 | 11 华二代需要要读liberal art的专业,比如艺术史才能和old money有“谈资”。
有几个old money的子弟读码工的和华二代闲聊的时候交流代码？
（In the tradition of European aristocrats, they study liberal arts rather
than vocational skills. [1]）
这年头种族主义比以前好一些，要有谈资的话，至少还能有一聊。[2]
old money也就是upper-upper class
华一代没事看Economist Magazine，华二代也会看。
[1]
Upper-Uppers
The upper-upper class, sometimes called “blue bloods” or simply “society,
” includes less than 1 percent of the U.S. population (Coleman & Neugarten,
1971; Baltzell, 1995). Membership is almost always the result of birth, as
suggested by the joke that the easiest way to become an upper-upper is to be
born one. Most but not all of these families possess enormous wealth, which
is primarily inherited. As a general rule, the more a family’s income
comes from inherited wealth in the form of stocks and bonds, real estate,
and other investments, the stronger a family’s claim to being a member of
the upper-upper class. For this reason, members of the upper-upper class are
said to have “old money.”
Set apart by their wealth, upper-uppers live in old, exclusive neighborhoods
, such as Beacon Hill in Boston, Rittenhouse Square in Philadelphia, the
Gold Coast of Chicago, and Nob Hill in San Francisco. Their children
typically attend private schools with others of similar background and
complete their schooling at high-prestige colleges and universities.In the
tradition of European aristocrats, they study liberal arts rather than
vocational skills.
Women of the upper-upper class do volunteer work for charitable
organizations. Such activities serve a dual purpose: They help the larger
community, and they build networks that broaden this elite’s power (
Ostrander, 1980, 1984).
source: "sociology"
https://www.amazon.com/Sociology-15th-John-J-Macionis/dp/0205985602
[2]
谈资比名牌包还贵的社会等级演变
https://wemedia.ifeng.com/43069257/wemedia.shtml
Conspicuous consumption is over. It’s all about intangibles now
https://aeon.co/ideas/conspicuous-consumption-is-over-its-all-about-
intangibles-now
【在 h***n 的大作中提到】
: 华男上了哈佛人家也不带你玩，毕业要么是马公，要么是个体户比如医生
: 华女你懂的，别说ABC女，一代国女来美国久了都看不起国男，不信你问问华人上的大
: 妈有几个把自己老公当回事的。
: 一代华女参加个白人里高等人西式婚礼，晚宴，high party都不稀奇，国男有几个见过
: 这世面的？
: 老中男在美国doomed
|
f**********c
发帖数: 15 | 12 根据如下这个，是违反宪法的。
There are also legal arguments against legacy preferences. In public schools
, legacy preferences may violate the Nobility Clause and the Equal
Protection Clause of the U.S. Constitution by creating a hereditary
privilege and discriminating on the basis of ancestry.[27] Legacy
preferences in both public and private universities may be illegal under the
Civil Rights Act of 1866 (now codified in Section 1981 of the U.S. Code).
source:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_preferences
因为历代重要议员和法官大多是legacy制度的受益者，所以不会改变。
While the majority of Americans have been shown to strongly oppose legacy
admissions, its beneficiaries hold key positions in Congress and the
judiciary, protecting this practice from political and legal challenge.
---"Affirmative Action for the Rich: Legacy Preferences in College
Admissions"
https://www.amazon.com/Affirmative-Action-Rich-Preferences-Admissions/dp/
0870785184
【在 w*******2 的大作中提到】
: 因为legacy录取目前不违反宪法
: 只能逐渐施压降低legacy比例
|
f**********c
发帖数: 15 | 13 一代有这个意识去影响
二代三代可能实现
一代若没这个意识
可能要四代五代才能成功。
【在 B*Q 的大作中提到】
: 龙生龙凤生凤
: 老鼠的儿子会打洞
: 马公的儿子要想走这条路
: 得好几代人
|
l*****i
发帖数: 1 | 14 欢迎来李胖子大学，朝校长我吐口唾沫，就毕业了，再甩个巴掌，就是荣誉博士称号。
one-
【在 f**********c 的大作中提到】
: 从2010-2015年，legacy的录取率34%，一般人是6%。
: “From 2010 to 2015, Harvard’s admission rate for legacies was 34%, while
: its admission rate for non-legacies was 6%.”
: 每五个白人中一个是legacy录取进来的，而这个数字黑人是4.8%，亚裔6.6%,西裔7%。
: “Not surprisingly, legacy applicants are likely to be white. More than one-
: fifth of white applicants admitted to Harvard between 2010 and 2015 were
: legacies. By comparison, only 4.8% of African American students admitted
: were legacies. The rate was only slightly higher among Asian American
: students (6.6%) and Hispanic students (7%). ”
: 根据数据数据亚裔女性录取机会比白人女性略有优势
|
w*******2
发帖数: 2199 | 15 或者说，这就是政治。
谁在台上，都希望玩legacy.
schools
the
【在 f**********c 的大作中提到】
: 根据如下这个，是违反宪法的。
: There are also legal arguments against legacy preferences. In public schools
: , legacy preferences may violate the Nobility Clause and the Equal
: Protection Clause of the U.S. Constitution by creating a hereditary
: privilege and discriminating on the basis of ancestry.[27] Legacy
: preferences in both public and private universities may be illegal under the
: Civil Rights Act of 1866 (now codified in Section 1981 of the U.S. Code).
: source:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_preferences
: 因为历代重要议员和法官大多是legacy制度的受益者，所以不会改变。
: While the majority of Americans have been shown to strongly oppose legacy
|
e***d
发帖数: 8248 | 16 MIT一样有legacy.
藤校都是这样。
【在 f**********c 的大作中提到】
: 认为哈佛招生歧视亚裔的人们，
: 为啥不反对legacy呢？
: 这才是不公平的大头。他们才占据最多的名额。
: 难道是不敢反对有钱有势的白人，但是欺负黑墨更容易？
: MIT和UC系列不legacy，得到的校友捐款也不少。所以说捐款并非legacy的主要因素。
: 如果认真看过有关legacy的研究和wiki就会知道，legacy中白人多，是因为他们祖先时
: 代在美国的人数多。那时候排华法案和歧视黑人，亚裔和黑人能入读哈耶普的人数不多
: ，所以靠legacy的亚裔和黑人不多。
: 这实际是白人上层为了维持在美国把持议员和法院这些立法机构（美国法律体系中法官
: 判决也是法律的一部分），世代相传的政策。
|
E*******F
发帖数: 2165 | 17 不要以为meritocracy就是普遍真理。
阶层过于固化和过于流动都不好。 |
f**********c
发帖数: 15 | 18 MIT自己的招生官说他们没有legacy，还反驳别人指控他们有legacy制度。
Just To Be Clear: We Don’t Do Legacy
https://mitadmissions.org/blogs/entry/just-to-be-clear-we-dont-do-legacy/
【在 e***d 的大作中提到】
: MIT一样有legacy.
: 藤校都是这样。
|
e***d
发帖数: 8248 | 19 入学申请表上会问你家有人上过MIT么。
【在 f**********c 的大作中提到】
: MIT自己的招生官说他们没有legacy，还反驳别人指控他们有legacy制度。
: Just To Be Clear: We Don’t Do Legacy
: https://mitadmissions.org/blogs/entry/just-to-be-clear-we-dont-do-legacy/
|
f**********c
发帖数: 15 | 20 meritocracy并非普遍真理，这个道理受过好教育的都知道的。
以下来自美国大学基础课优秀高中生学的社会学课
Meritocracy
The concept of meritocracy refers to social stratification based on personal
merit. Because industrial societies need to develop a broad range of
abilities beyond farming, stratification is based not just on the accident
of birth but also on merit (from a Latin word meaning “earned”), which
includes a person’s knowledge, abilities, and effort. A rough measure of
merit is the importance of a person’s job and how well it is done. To
increase the extent of meritocracy, industrial societies expand equality of
opportunity and teach people to expect
unequal rewards based on individual performance. A pure meritocracy has
never existed, but in such a system social position would depend entirely on
a person’s ability and effort. Such a system would have ongoing social
mobility, blurring social categories as individuals continuously move up or
down in the
system, depending on their latest performance.
Caste societies define merit in different terms, emphasizing loyalty to the
system— that is, dutifully performing whatever job comes with the social
position a person has from birth. Because they assign jobs before anyone can
know anything about a person’s talents or interests, caste systems waste
human potential. On the other hand, because caste systems clearly assign
everyone a “place” in society and a general type of work, they are very
stable and orderly. A need for some amount of order is one reason industrial
and postindustrial societies keep some elements of caste—such as letting
wealth
pass from generation to generation—rather than becoming complete
meritocracies.
A pure meritocracy would have individuals moving up and down the social
ranking
all the time. Such extreme social mobility would pull apart families and
other social groupings. After all, economic performance is not everything:
Would we want to evaluate our family members solely on how successful they
are in their jobs outside the home? Probably not. Class systems in
industrial societies develop some meritocracy to promote productivity and
efficiency, but they keep caste elements, such as family, to maintain order
and social unity.
(PP278)
此外我们还学过美国现状是一部分meritocracy一部分Caste
U.S. Stratification: Merit and Caste
As we discussed in Chapter 10 (“Social Stratification”), the U.S. class
system is partly a meritocracy in that social position reflects individual
talent and effort. But it alsohas caste elements, because birth—which
socially locates each person in a particular family, as well as assigning
traits such as race, ethnicity, and gender—plays a part in what we become
later in life.
(PP 305)
source：“Sociology"
https://www.amazon.com/Sociology-15th-John-J-Macionis/dp/0205985602
主贴是提问，反对族裔AA的人们也许是支持meritocracy的，如果支持meritocracy的话
是不是也应该反对经济上的AA政策？
（Affirmative Action for the Rich: Legacy Preferences in College Admissions
这本书的名字就是legacy就是有钱人的AA）
如果只是反对族裔AA，不反对有钱人的AA，是不是就是不支持meritocracy的，且是种
族主义的？
【在 E*******F 的大作中提到】
: 不要以为meritocracy就是普遍真理。
: 阶层过于固化和过于流动都不好。
|
|
|
f**********c
发帖数: 15 | 21 相对于招生官的文章，这是circumstantial evidence。
【在 e***d 的大作中提到】
: 入学申请表上会问你家有人上过MIT么。
|
f**********c
发帖数: 15 | 22 还有这条：
05-01-2012 at 11:32 am
The official position is that legacy does not increase admission chances.
Admissions staff at MIT has said that the Dean of Admissions will give
legacy rejects a once-over to see if there was an egregious error as a
courtesy to alumni parents. Even so, having a grandfather alumnus is not
typically thought of as a legacy.
Also, giving money to the school does not matter either.
It doesn't help your son's case, but it is why it was one of two elite
schools which was held up in Golden's "The Price of Admissions" as being
meritocracies. The other school was Caltech.
source：https://talk.collegeconfidential.com/massachusetts-institute-
technology/1333955-mit-legacy-advantage.html
【在 e***d 的大作中提到】
: 入学申请表上会问你家有人上过MIT么。
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f**********c
发帖数: 15 | 23 欧洲大学没有legacy。
Legacy preferences are generally not allowed in Europe.
source:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_preferences
可能欧洲没有政治，也可能欧洲想玩但是没玩成功。
【在 w*******2 的大作中提到】
: 或者说，这就是政治。
: 谁在台上，都希望玩legacy.
:
: schools
: the
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f***x
发帖数: 1 | 24 文贵算个毛。
文贵在houston有多少资源？
【在 j*****y 的大作中提到】
: 你说的是20年前的情况。不要刻舟求剑了。
: 文贵就在Hudson上面开游艇，白妞左拥右抱。
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h********a
发帖数: 1120 | |
