c*****d
发帖数: 164 | 1 The whole world is witnessing the rise of Chinese economy and purchase power
. Just want to bring up a discussion: anyone here as US-based physician is
thinking of tapping into Chinese market.
Recently, I have been talking to a local practice that is planning on
bringing Chinese neo rich to the US for medical care. Of course, it is going
to be boutique practice and will be ALL CASH business.
We all have friends and classmates in major hospitals in China, what do you
think the possibilities to do such business? What would be the obstacles for
such an operations?
Open for all discussions. Thanks |
A*******s
发帖数: 9638 | 2 I think it is doable.
1. A clinic like Mayo clinic, which is capable to finish a problem focused
workup within a week. Get all the consultation done at an as needed base.
These Doctors are better mandarin speaking.
2. The clinic has to be set up at a major city with direct flights to China. like
LA, Seattle, NY, Chicago, etc.
3. In China, you need a good advertisement/operation team with a logo like "A
Second Opinion in the US." It also will arrange all businesses regarding
travel and medical appointment.
4. Libility Insurance. I think it should be covered by our existing
malpractice insurance.
5. Forget about your collegues in China. :)
power
going
you
for
【在 c*****d 的大作中提到】
: The whole world is witnessing the rise of Chinese economy and purchase power
: . Just want to bring up a discussion: anyone here as US-based physician is
: thinking of tapping into Chinese market.
: Recently, I have been talking to a local practice that is planning on
: bringing Chinese neo rich to the US for medical care. Of course, it is going
: to be boutique practice and will be ALL CASH business.
: We all have friends and classmates in major hospitals in China, what do you
: think the possibilities to do such business? What would be the obstacles for
: such an operations?
: Open for all discussions. Thanks
|
c*****d
发帖数: 164 | 3 Thanks, Aplusplus, for pitching in.
Apparently, there is only one Mayo Clinic in the world; but it is totally
possible to have all work-up and consultation done within a week in a metro
area, if you pay cash.
I really think there is market need for such a service. In the US, as long
as you can pay, definitely you can get better care than in China.
You really brought up a good point: how to compete with a clinic like Mayo.
A couple of things I can think of are:
1. We speak Chinese and know how to navigate US medical system (and to play
with insurance benefit, if you know what I am talking about)
2. We have contact in Chinese hospitals to get patients from China.
A consulting service from us probably makes more sense than just delivering
medical service alone. That is what I am thinking about to start - not much
to invest, and return can be huge.
Would be interested to have more inputs from CMGs here.
Thanks |
A*******s
发帖数: 9638 | 4 Sorry， cybermd， I don't understand what you mean on your things #1:
1. We speak Chinese and know how to navigate US medical system (and to play
with insurance benefit, if you know what I am talking about)
For the part 2， I don't think it is important.
2. We have contact in Chinese hospitals to get patients from China.
But I have to take hats off to your idea. It could be a very successful
business model. Once the rich chinese patients influx into US for
healthcare, the most important direct impact on CMGs will be a surge on
demand for our CMGs as well as CMG residency recruitment. Can't anyone see
it?
I am very surprised to see that only cybermd and me are discussing this
interesting topic. Shame on you, our CMG attendings, residents and
residents to be. LOL!
metro
.
play
【在 c*****d 的大作中提到】
: Thanks, Aplusplus, for pitching in.
: Apparently, there is only one Mayo Clinic in the world; but it is totally
: possible to have all work-up and consultation done within a week in a metro
: area, if you pay cash.
: I really think there is market need for such a service. In the US, as long
: as you can pay, definitely you can get better care than in China.
: You really brought up a good point: how to compete with a clinic like Mayo.
: A couple of things I can think of are:
: 1. We speak Chinese and know how to navigate US medical system (and to play
: with insurance benefit, if you know what I am talking about)
|
f******w
发帖数: 10267 | 5 非常好的主意，不知道签证上会不会有问题？主要是一个策划组织的过程，把每一步的
appointment都做的紧凑一些，可以节省很多时间。cash付，可以，但是跟病人说的时
候，是先付钱呢？还是等医院账单？我知道很多医生是要求无保险的病人pay up front
，但是医院的检查呢？
抢先声明一下，我有兴趣跟你合作。
power
going
you
for
【在 c*****d 的大作中提到】
: The whole world is witnessing the rise of Chinese economy and purchase power
: . Just want to bring up a discussion: anyone here as US-based physician is
: thinking of tapping into Chinese market.
: Recently, I have been talking to a local practice that is planning on
: bringing Chinese neo rich to the US for medical care. Of course, it is going
: to be boutique practice and will be ALL CASH business.
: We all have friends and classmates in major hospitals in China, what do you
: think the possibilities to do such business? What would be the obstacles for
: such an operations?
: Open for all discussions. Thanks
|
f******w
发帖数: 10267 | 6 Marketing is the key。但是，难点会在与收费上。美国这里，很多时候是事后告诉你
多少钱，这就为打广告增添了很多难度。
直飞大城市是最好的，但是，像MD Anderson或者St Jude这样的医院所在地，未必有直
飞吧？最好是建立起网络，用牌子最响的医院。
don't quite get #4.
China. like
"A
【在 A*******s 的大作中提到】
: I think it is doable.
: 1. A clinic like Mayo clinic, which is capable to finish a problem focused
: workup within a week. Get all the consultation done at an as needed base.
: These Doctors are better mandarin speaking.
: 2. The clinic has to be set up at a major city with direct flights to China. like
: LA, Seattle, NY, Chicago, etc.
: 3. In China, you need a good advertisement/operation team with a logo like "A
: Second Opinion in the US." It also will arrange all businesses regarding
: travel and medical appointment.
: 4. Libility Insurance. I think it should be covered by our existing
|
f******w
发帖数: 10267 | 7 对不起，家里出点儿事儿，来晚了，A兄不要生气。
泰国一直在做medical tourism，把老美吸引到那里做保险不给付的手术。同样，
cybermd同学这是一个很好的提议。
play
see
【在 A*******s 的大作中提到】
: Sorry， cybermd， I don't understand what you mean on your things #1:
: 1. We speak Chinese and know how to navigate US medical system (and to play
: with insurance benefit, if you know what I am talking about)
: For the part 2， I don't think it is important.
: 2. We have contact in Chinese hospitals to get patients from China.
: But I have to take hats off to your idea. It could be a very successful
: business model. Once the rich chinese patients influx into US for
: healthcare, the most important direct impact on CMGs will be a surge on
: demand for our CMGs as well as CMG residency recruitment. Can't anyone see
: it?
|
A*******s
发帖数: 9638 | 8 让中国人到美国来消费healthcare， 美国大使馆不给签证美国国会是不会答应的。：）
具体细节应该不是问题。
front
【在 f******w 的大作中提到】
: 非常好的主意，不知道签证上会不会有问题？主要是一个策划组织的过程，把每一步的
: appointment都做的紧凑一些，可以节省很多时间。cash付，可以，但是跟病人说的时
: 候，是先付钱呢？还是等医院账单？我知道很多医生是要求无保险的病人pay up front
: ，但是医院的检查呢？
: 抢先声明一下，我有兴趣跟你合作。
:
: power
: going
: you
: for
|
A*******s
发帖数: 9638 | 9 我们不需要MD anderson， 我们需要MD anderson的专家。
医疗保险应该不是问题。
【在 f******w 的大作中提到】
: Marketing is the key。但是，难点会在与收费上。美国这里，很多时候是事后告诉你
: 多少钱，这就为打广告增添了很多难度。
: 直飞大城市是最好的，但是，像MD Anderson或者St Jude这样的医院所在地，未必有直
: 飞吧？最好是建立起网络，用牌子最响的医院。
: don't quite get #4.
:
: China. like
: "A
|
c*****d
发帖数: 164 | 10 Really appreciate you keeping this discussion going.
I'd like to see what you guys think of the following issues.
1. Market need:
There is already medical tourism existing to US from China: baby delivering
in CA. The upside for that operation is because it involves a citizenship.
But when people get sick and they have means, they will spend their money to
save or extend their lives. Top 0.1% Chinese still makes a huge number. In
addition, it is not cheap anyway to get top medical care in China otherwise.
2. Patient source and marketing: through chinese local doctors (patients
need follow up later anyway) and through marketing machinery.
3. How to charge: The fees for consultations and imaging can be negotiated
with local providers (if cash can be paid). A initial medical record review
and consultation fee will be paid before anything. Travel and other
arrangement will come with a fee for service. Charge chinese insurance
company or government money (possible if we deal with local officials).
4. Team: ?
futurehw and Aplusplus, maybe you guys can help to assemble a team from
here? lol. |
|
|
A*******s
发帖数: 9638 | 11 我觉得顺序应该是这样：
1. 硬件， 一个像mayo clinic的医疗机构。
2. 软件， 需要Top notch specialists including mandarin speaking Docs， full
cooperation， quality control，customer service， etc
3. 财政评估， 包括pricing， profit sharing， etc
4. Marketing， 可以让专业的广告公司做， 这是唯一需要花大钱的地方。
5. 最后是协调工作， 像travel arrangement， making appointment， 与中美医生沟
通， 这些可以contract， 也可以让有志在这方面发展的CMGs做。
看病可以与家属旅游结合起来， 这样还可以克服签证的困难。 我强调direct flight
， 因为一个病人是经不起转机的折腾的。
delivering
to
In
otherwise.
【在 c*****d 的大作中提到】
: Really appreciate you keeping this discussion going.
: I'd like to see what you guys think of the following issues.
: 1. Market need:
: There is already medical tourism existing to US from China: baby delivering
: in CA. The upside for that operation is because it involves a citizenship.
: But when people get sick and they have means, they will spend their money to
: save or extend their lives. Top 0.1% Chinese still makes a huge number. In
: addition, it is not cheap anyway to get top medical care in China otherwise.
: 2. Patient source and marketing: through chinese local doctors (patients
: need follow up later anyway) and through marketing machinery.
|
f******w
发帖数: 10267 | 12 几点疑惑，为啥要#1？#2，top notch如何评价？报名做3，4，5！
还有一个问题？这些病人怎样的病会选择来美国second opinion? 患感冒的来看美一眼
医生是不是没啥必要？
full
flight
【在 A*******s 的大作中提到】
: 我觉得顺序应该是这样：
: 1. 硬件， 一个像mayo clinic的医疗机构。
: 2. 软件， 需要Top notch specialists including mandarin speaking Docs， full
: cooperation， quality control，customer service， etc
: 3. 财政评估， 包括pricing， profit sharing， etc
: 4. Marketing， 可以让专业的广告公司做， 这是唯一需要花大钱的地方。
: 5. 最后是协调工作， 像travel arrangement， making appointment， 与中美医生沟
: 通， 这些可以contract， 也可以让有志在这方面发展的CMGs做。
: 看病可以与家属旅游结合起来， 这样还可以克服签证的困难。 我强调direct flight
: ， 因为一个病人是经不起转机的折腾的。
|
k********n
发帖数: 756 | 13 Why the rich ppl need u guys? They already have network. All major center
provide service u r proposing. |
m********4
发帖数: 607 | 14 Obviously, some people don't know who they are.
Pity ! |
A*******s
发帖数: 9638 | 15 你没到过mayo clinic吧？ 看看mayo的病历， 你就知道什么是一流的硬件了。
【在 f******w 的大作中提到】
: 几点疑惑，为啥要#1？#2，top notch如何评价？报名做3，4，5！
: 还有一个问题？这些病人怎样的病会选择来美国second opinion? 患感冒的来看美一眼
: 医生是不是没啥必要？
:
: full
: flight
|
A*******s
发帖数: 9638 | 16 You should ask:
Why the riches in China never thought about us?
In practice, I really think people missed my appointment actually have
missed a better care. :)
【在 k********n 的大作中提到】
: Why the rich ppl need u guys? They already have network. All major center
: provide service u r proposing.
|
k********n
发帖数: 756 | 17 Unless u r a super cow and dealing w a rare dz by cutting edge techs, no
much difference among good docs across the world. The rich don't need
anyone here to get into top notched medical center in US. |
c*****d
发帖数: 164 | 18 I appreciate any opinions here.
For those who have doubt here, for the record, this operation is already in
place in the practice I have daily contact with, and I have already started
to see occasional Chinese patients myself.
By the way, they are not super cows by any standards but they are indeed
physicians with business acumen.
The cost might not be as much as you think because of the bargin power of
cash; for example, a PET/CT only costs 1200 if paid in cash and can be done
the next day.
I am trying to see what you guys think, from a CMG point of view.
I agree that there is always competition from large institutions such as
Mayo, but you do not need 100% market share and smaller operations have
their own advantages. For this matter, that is why there are still private
practices instead of 100% large medical center market share.
Anyway, isn't it fun to think something outside of box? especially for us
without any training in business? |
A*******s
发帖数: 9638 | 19 True。 It is a braintease not a brainstorm.
Just like baobao's YY: Kobe Jordan is better than mike Jordan or Kobe Brian
， isn't he？ ：)
in
started
done
【在 c*****d 的大作中提到】
: I appreciate any opinions here.
: For those who have doubt here, for the record, this operation is already in
: place in the practice I have daily contact with, and I have already started
: to see occasional Chinese patients myself.
: By the way, they are not super cows by any standards but they are indeed
: physicians with business acumen.
: The cost might not be as much as you think because of the bargin power of
: cash; for example, a PET/CT only costs 1200 if paid in cash and can be done
: the next day.
: I am trying to see what you guys think, from a CMG point of view.
|
d******h
发帖数: 503 | 20
power
going
you
for
【在 c*****d 的大作中提到】
: The whole world is witnessing the rise of Chinese economy and purchase power
: . Just want to bring up a discussion: anyone here as US-based physician is
: thinking of tapping into Chinese market.
: Recently, I have been talking to a local practice that is planning on
: bringing Chinese neo rich to the US for medical care. Of course, it is going
: to be boutique practice and will be ALL CASH business.
: We all have friends and classmates in major hospitals in China, what do you
: think the possibilities to do such business? What would be the obstacles for
: such an operations?
: Open for all discussions. Thanks
|
|
|
d******h
发帖数: 503 | 21 i do not think the chinese rich will come US to see a cmg. you know how
chinese don't trust chinese.
chinese rich would come to md anderson for md anderson, not for a particular
surgeon.
chinese rich came to japan for care is much easier.
power
going
you
for
【在 c*****d 的大作中提到】
: The whole world is witnessing the rise of Chinese economy and purchase power
: . Just want to bring up a discussion: anyone here as US-based physician is
: thinking of tapping into Chinese market.
: Recently, I have been talking to a local practice that is planning on
: bringing Chinese neo rich to the US for medical care. Of course, it is going
: to be boutique practice and will be ALL CASH business.
: We all have friends and classmates in major hospitals in China, what do you
: think the possibilities to do such business? What would be the obstacles for
: such an operations?
: Open for all discussions. Thanks
|
m****t
发帖数: 138 | 22 Well said
particular
【在 d******h 的大作中提到】
: i do not think the chinese rich will come US to see a cmg. you know how
: chinese don't trust chinese.
: chinese rich would come to md anderson for md anderson, not for a particular
: surgeon.
: chinese rich came to japan for care is much easier.
:
: power
: going
: you
: for
|
m******r
发帖数: 1904 | 23 Anyone here think about serving poor people in China? Quite curious about
this topic.
Does the money mean everything? |
w***0
发帖数: 222 | 24 Interesting idea but is it really profitable individually if you are using
the BIG names of medical centers here? If so, don't you believe that you
will simply end up dong advertising things for those centers in China?
Unless doing introduction of your own facility to the Chinese market.
power
going
you
for
【在 c*****d 的大作中提到】
: The whole world is witnessing the rise of Chinese economy and purchase power
: . Just want to bring up a discussion: anyone here as US-based physician is
: thinking of tapping into Chinese market.
: Recently, I have been talking to a local practice that is planning on
: bringing Chinese neo rich to the US for medical care. Of course, it is going
: to be boutique practice and will be ALL CASH business.
: We all have friends and classmates in major hospitals in China, what do you
: think the possibilities to do such business? What would be the obstacles for
: such an operations?
: Open for all discussions. Thanks
|
A*******s
发帖数: 9638 | 25 Would you mind starting a thread on that?
【在 m******r 的大作中提到】
: Anyone here think about serving poor people in China? Quite curious about
: this topic.
: Does the money mean everything?
|
A*******s
发帖数: 9638 | 26 I agree. I don't think you can succeed with a private practice or a small
group. This thing requires COOPERATION.
For me, I would avoid seeing any individual Chinese speaking only patient
because it is too time consuming.
【在 w***0 的大作中提到】
: Interesting idea but is it really profitable individually if you are using
: the BIG names of medical centers here? If so, don't you believe that you
: will simply end up dong advertising things for those centers in China?
: Unless doing introduction of your own facility to the Chinese market.
:
: power
: going
: you
: for
|
A*******s
发帖数: 9638 | 27 Education makes difference, that's why I emphasize the importance of
advertisement.
For Chinese rich ppl, they should know why US educated Chinese scientists
get Nobel prizes but none from mainland China so far.
For CMGs in US, we work for ourselves, not for any individuals. Patients
need our help, not we beg their money as charity, right? :)
particular
【在 d******h 的大作中提到】
: i do not think the chinese rich will come US to see a cmg. you know how
: chinese don't trust chinese.
: chinese rich would come to md anderson for md anderson, not for a particular
: surgeon.
: chinese rich came to japan for care is much easier.
:
: power
: going
: you
: for
|
b*w
发帖数: 2062 | 28 能多说两句吗？
【在 A*******s 的大作中提到】
: 你没到过mayo clinic吧？ 看看mayo的病历， 你就知道什么是一流的硬件了。
|
A*******s
发帖数: 9638 | 29 每一个到Mayo clinic看病的人， 都会带回来一个厚厚的病历夹， 读一下里面的内容
， 你就知道他们的水平了。 接诊医生第一天看完病， 提出可能的诊断， 然后开始收
集证据， 包括检查， 会诊， 最后提出最终诊断和治疗方案， 一般一个星期时间，
病人住在医院附近， 节省了住院费用。
我用过很多大医学院的会诊，很少看到有不同于我自己诊断的。 Mayo是例外， 结果总
是让我吃惊。 所以我对我病人说， 如果有条件， 去Mayo at MN。 别的Mayo就不要费
劲了。
经常看看自己病人的mayo会诊， 对自己的诊疗水平绝对是一个促进。
【在 b*w 的大作中提到】
: 能多说两句吗？
|
d******h
发帖数: 503 | 30 less ads is better than more. If you can publish more on pubmed, it might
help you. In medicine, obvious promotion is bad. Subtlety is golden.
Probably you have already learned that many classmates of yours would tell
your potential client that American doctors get less cases, less practice,
and less experience than themselves.
No. You are attracting patients with everything you have. Patients have
choices.
【在 A*******s 的大作中提到】
: Education makes difference, that's why I emphasize the importance of
: advertisement.
: For Chinese rich ppl, they should know why US educated Chinese scientists
: get Nobel prizes but none from mainland China so far.
: For CMGs in US, we work for ourselves, not for any individuals. Patients
: need our help, not we beg their money as charity, right? :)
:
: particular
|
|
|
A*******s
发帖数: 9638 | 31 我觉得在最开始的时候， 应该有一个大张旗鼓的宣传， 以后就是reputation了。
中国的医生看的病人很多， 这对医生来说很重要， 可是， 什么样的师父带出什么样
的徒弟， 经验可不是医学的全部。
最近一次在北京开的国际会议， 了解到中国医生还在用甘露醇治疗急诊室的头疼。 问
他们为什么，说是常规， 降低脑水肿/颅内压。 他们应该知道， 绝大部分的头疼颅内
压是正常的。 即使颅内压高， 也不是那么个降法。
我20年前就知道他们这么做， 现在还是没变， 有意思。
【在 d******h 的大作中提到】
: less ads is better than more. If you can publish more on pubmed, it might
: help you. In medicine, obvious promotion is bad. Subtlety is golden.
: Probably you have already learned that many classmates of yours would tell
: your potential client that American doctors get less cases, less practice,
: and less experience than themselves.
: No. You are attracting patients with everything you have. Patients have
: choices.
|
d******h
发帖数: 503 | 32 If you want to go this route, the best strategy should be going back to
China and set up your international clinic over there.
【在 A*******s 的大作中提到】
: 我觉得在最开始的时候， 应该有一个大张旗鼓的宣传， 以后就是reputation了。
: 中国的医生看的病人很多， 这对医生来说很重要， 可是， 什么样的师父带出什么样
: 的徒弟， 经验可不是医学的全部。
: 最近一次在北京开的国际会议， 了解到中国医生还在用甘露醇治疗急诊室的头疼。 问
: 他们为什么，说是常规， 降低脑水肿/颅内压。 他们应该知道， 绝大部分的头疼颅内
: 压是正常的。 即使颅内压高， 也不是那么个降法。
: 我20年前就知道他们这么做， 现在还是没变， 有意思。
|
y******a
发帖数: 590 | 33 说说他们看一个病人花多长时间
【在 A*******s 的大作中提到】
: 每一个到Mayo clinic看病的人， 都会带回来一个厚厚的病历夹， 读一下里面的内容
: ， 你就知道他们的水平了。 接诊医生第一天看完病， 提出可能的诊断， 然后开始收
: 集证据， 包括检查， 会诊， 最后提出最终诊断和治疗方案， 一般一个星期时间，
: 病人住在医院附近， 节省了住院费用。
: 我用过很多大医学院的会诊，很少看到有不同于我自己诊断的。 Mayo是例外， 结果总
: 是让我吃惊。 所以我对我病人说， 如果有条件， 去Mayo at MN。 别的Mayo就不要费
: 劲了。
: 经常看看自己病人的mayo会诊， 对自己的诊疗水平绝对是一个促进。
|
y******a
发帖数: 590 | 34 并不是看得多看得快的大夫就是好大夫
【在 d******h 的大作中提到】
: less ads is better than more. If you can publish more on pubmed, it might
: help you. In medicine, obvious promotion is bad. Subtlety is golden.
: Probably you have already learned that many classmates of yours would tell
: your potential client that American doctors get less cases, less practice,
: and less experience than themselves.
: No. You are attracting patients with everything you have. Patients have
: choices.
|
R**H
发帖数: 50 | 35 这个以后一定要搞一个看看。
【在 A*******s 的大作中提到】
: 每一个到Mayo clinic看病的人， 都会带回来一个厚厚的病历夹， 读一下里面的内容
: ， 你就知道他们的水平了。 接诊医生第一天看完病， 提出可能的诊断， 然后开始收
: 集证据， 包括检查， 会诊， 最后提出最终诊断和治疗方案， 一般一个星期时间，
: 病人住在医院附近， 节省了住院费用。
: 我用过很多大医学院的会诊，很少看到有不同于我自己诊断的。 Mayo是例外， 结果总
: 是让我吃惊。 所以我对我病人说， 如果有条件， 去Mayo at MN。 别的Mayo就不要费
: 劲了。
: 经常看看自己病人的mayo会诊， 对自己的诊疗水平绝对是一个促进。
|
e*********d
发帖数: 41 | 36 Very interesting discussions.
I also think this is a good business model and there will be a huge market
in China for this.
I think the key, or the only key, here is marketing in China; all other
elements mentioned in A++'s post are currently available somewhere and can
be accomplished through contracting with existing service vendors, like US
hospitals, physician groups, travel agencies etc.
Also, Chinese patients can get most of radiology or pathology related
services in China; that will save them a lot of money once they land in US;
they only need to pay for surgeries, drugs and inpatient services.
Again, very interested in your insights. |
A*******s
发帖数: 9638 | 37 30 min-1 hr.
【在 y******a 的大作中提到】
: 说说他们看一个病人花多长时间
|
A*******s
发帖数: 9638 | 38 This topic actually is very complex.
International healthcare is no long medicine only but businesses. So we
surely need to talk about the market. As long as there is a need, there
will be business there.
For CMGs staying in US, some specialties including GPs probably are not
going to benefit out of it. International patients are more like VIPs, and
you will end up with more effort less pay. Certain specialties like surgery
, however, may be profitable.
Anyone thought about building a hospital in China to take Americans for their
healthcare? I know Indians are doing that.
;
【在 e*********d 的大作中提到】
: Very interesting discussions.
: I also think this is a good business model and there will be a huge market
: in China for this.
: I think the key, or the only key, here is marketing in China; all other
: elements mentioned in A++'s post are currently available somewhere and can
: be accomplished through contracting with existing service vendors, like US
: hospitals, physician groups, travel agencies etc.
: Also, Chinese patients can get most of radiology or pathology related
: services in China; that will save them a lot of money once they land in US;
: they only need to pay for surgeries, drugs and inpatient services.
|
c*****d
发帖数: 164 | 39 The whole world is witnessing the rise of Chinese economy and purchase power
. Just want to bring up a discussion: anyone here as US-based physician is
thinking of tapping into Chinese market.
Recently, I have been talking to a local practice that is planning on
bringing Chinese neo rich to the US for medical care. Of course, it is going
to be boutique practice and will be ALL CASH business.
We all have friends and classmates in major hospitals in China, what do you
think the possibilities to do such business? What would be the obstacles for
such an operations?
Open for all discussions. Thanks |
A*******s
发帖数: 9638 | 40 I think it is doable.
1. A clinic like Mayo clinic, which is capable to finish a problem focused
workup within a week. Get all the consultation done at an as needed base.
These Doctors are better mandarin speaking.
2. The clinic has to be set up at a major city with direct flights to China. like
LA, Seattle, NY, Chicago, etc.
3. In China, you need a good advertisement/operation team with a logo like "A
Second Opinion in the US." It also will arrange all businesses regarding
travel and medical appointment.
4. Libility Insurance. I think it should be covered by our existing
malpractice insurance.
5. Forget about your collegues in China. :)
power
going
you
for
【在 c*****d 的大作中提到】
: The whole world is witnessing the rise of Chinese economy and purchase power
: . Just want to bring up a discussion: anyone here as US-based physician is
: thinking of tapping into Chinese market.
: Recently, I have been talking to a local practice that is planning on
: bringing Chinese neo rich to the US for medical care. Of course, it is going
: to be boutique practice and will be ALL CASH business.
: We all have friends and classmates in major hospitals in China, what do you
: think the possibilities to do such business? What would be the obstacles for
: such an operations?
: Open for all discussions. Thanks
|
|
|
c*****d
发帖数: 164 | 41 Thanks, Aplusplus, for pitching in.
Apparently, there is only one Mayo Clinic in the world; but it is totally
possible to have all work-up and consultation done within a week in a metro
area, if you pay cash.
I really think there is market need for such a service. In the US, as long
as you can pay, definitely you can get better care than in China.
You really brought up a good point: how to compete with a clinic like Mayo.
A couple of things I can think of are:
1. We speak Chinese and know how to navigate US medical system (and to play
with insurance benefit, if you know what I am talking about)
2. We have contact in Chinese hospitals to get patients from China.
A consulting service from us probably makes more sense than just delivering
medical service alone. That is what I am thinking about to start - not much
to invest, and return can be huge.
Would be interested to have more inputs from CMGs here.
Thanks |
A*******s
发帖数: 9638 | 42 Sorry， cybermd， I don't understand what you mean on your things #1:
1. We speak Chinese and know how to navigate US medical system (and to play
with insurance benefit, if you know what I am talking about)
For the part 2， I don't think it is important.
2. We have contact in Chinese hospitals to get patients from China.
But I have to take hats off to your idea. It could be a very successful
business model. Once the rich chinese patients influx into US for
healthcare, the most important direct impact on CMGs will be a surge on
demand for our CMGs as well as CMG residency recruitment. Can't anyone see
it?
I am very surprised to see that only cybermd and me are discussing this
interesting topic. Shame on you, our CMG attendings, residents and
residents to be. LOL!
metro
.
play
【在 c*****d 的大作中提到】
: Thanks, Aplusplus, for pitching in.
: Apparently, there is only one Mayo Clinic in the world; but it is totally
: possible to have all work-up and consultation done within a week in a metro
: area, if you pay cash.
: I really think there is market need for such a service. In the US, as long
: as you can pay, definitely you can get better care than in China.
: You really brought up a good point: how to compete with a clinic like Mayo.
: A couple of things I can think of are:
: 1. We speak Chinese and know how to navigate US medical system (and to play
: with insurance benefit, if you know what I am talking about)
|
f******w
发帖数: 10267 | 43 非常好的主意，不知道签证上会不会有问题？主要是一个策划组织的过程，把每一步的
appointment都做的紧凑一些，可以节省很多时间。cash付，可以，但是跟病人说的时
候，是先付钱呢？还是等医院账单？我知道很多医生是要求无保险的病人pay up front
，但是医院的检查呢？
抢先声明一下，我有兴趣跟你合作。
power
going
you
for
【在 c*****d 的大作中提到】
: The whole world is witnessing the rise of Chinese economy and purchase power
: . Just want to bring up a discussion: anyone here as US-based physician is
: thinking of tapping into Chinese market.
: Recently, I have been talking to a local practice that is planning on
: bringing Chinese neo rich to the US for medical care. Of course, it is going
: to be boutique practice and will be ALL CASH business.
: We all have friends and classmates in major hospitals in China, what do you
: think the possibilities to do such business? What would be the obstacles for
: such an operations?
: Open for all discussions. Thanks
|
f******w
发帖数: 10267 | 44 Marketing is the key。但是，难点会在与收费上。美国这里，很多时候是事后告诉你
多少钱，这就为打广告增添了很多难度。
直飞大城市是最好的，但是，像MD Anderson或者St Jude这样的医院所在地，未必有直
飞吧？最好是建立起网络，用牌子最响的医院。
don't quite get #4.
China. like
"A
【在 A*******s 的大作中提到】
: I think it is doable.
: 1. A clinic like Mayo clinic, which is capable to finish a problem focused
: workup within a week. Get all the consultation done at an as needed base.
: These Doctors are better mandarin speaking.
: 2. The clinic has to be set up at a major city with direct flights to China. like
: LA, Seattle, NY, Chicago, etc.
: 3. In China, you need a good advertisement/operation team with a logo like "A
: Second Opinion in the US." It also will arrange all businesses regarding
: travel and medical appointment.
: 4. Libility Insurance. I think it should be covered by our existing
|
f******w
发帖数: 10267 | 45 对不起，家里出点儿事儿，来晚了，A兄不要生气。
泰国一直在做medical tourism，把老美吸引到那里做保险不给付的手术。同样，
cybermd同学这是一个很好的提议。
play
see
【在 A*******s 的大作中提到】
: Sorry， cybermd， I don't understand what you mean on your things #1:
: 1. We speak Chinese and know how to navigate US medical system (and to play
: with insurance benefit, if you know what I am talking about)
: For the part 2， I don't think it is important.
: 2. We have contact in Chinese hospitals to get patients from China.
: But I have to take hats off to your idea. It could be a very successful
: business model. Once the rich chinese patients influx into US for
: healthcare, the most important direct impact on CMGs will be a surge on
: demand for our CMGs as well as CMG residency recruitment. Can't anyone see
: it?
|
A*******s
发帖数: 9638 | 46 让中国人到美国来消费healthcare， 美国大使馆不给签证美国国会是不会答应的。：）
具体细节应该不是问题。
front
【在 f******w 的大作中提到】
: 非常好的主意，不知道签证上会不会有问题？主要是一个策划组织的过程，把每一步的
: appointment都做的紧凑一些，可以节省很多时间。cash付，可以，但是跟病人说的时
: 候，是先付钱呢？还是等医院账单？我知道很多医生是要求无保险的病人pay up front
: ，但是医院的检查呢？
: 抢先声明一下，我有兴趣跟你合作。
:
: power
: going
: you
: for
|
A*******s
发帖数: 9638 | 47 我们不需要MD anderson， 我们需要MD anderson的专家。
医疗保险应该不是问题。
【在 f******w 的大作中提到】
: Marketing is the key。但是，难点会在与收费上。美国这里，很多时候是事后告诉你
: 多少钱，这就为打广告增添了很多难度。
: 直飞大城市是最好的，但是，像MD Anderson或者St Jude这样的医院所在地，未必有直
: 飞吧？最好是建立起网络，用牌子最响的医院。
: don't quite get #4.
:
: China. like
: "A
|
c*****d
发帖数: 164 | 48 Really appreciate you keeping this discussion going.
I'd like to see what you guys think of the following issues.
1. Market need:
There is already medical tourism existing to US from China: baby delivering
in CA. The upside for that operation is because it involves a citizenship.
But when people get sick and they have means, they will spend their money to
save or extend their lives. Top 0.1% Chinese still makes a huge number. In
addition, it is not cheap anyway to get top medical care in China otherwise.
2. Patient source and marketing: through chinese local doctors (patients
need follow up later anyway) and through marketing machinery.
3. How to charge: The fees for consultations and imaging can be negotiated
with local providers (if cash can be paid). A initial medical record review
and consultation fee will be paid before anything. Travel and other
arrangement will come with a fee for service. Charge chinese insurance
company or government money (possible if we deal with local officials).
4. Team: ?
futurehw and Aplusplus, maybe you guys can help to assemble a team from
here? lol. |
A*******s
发帖数: 9638 | 49 我觉得顺序应该是这样：
1. 硬件， 一个像mayo clinic的医疗机构。
2. 软件， 需要Top notch specialists including mandarin speaking Docs， full
cooperation， quality control，customer service， etc
3. 财政评估， 包括pricing， profit sharing， etc
4. Marketing， 可以让专业的广告公司做， 这是唯一需要花大钱的地方。
5. 最后是协调工作， 像travel arrangement， making appointment， 与中美医生沟
通， 这些可以contract， 也可以让有志在这方面发展的CMGs做。
看病可以与家属旅游结合起来， 这样还可以克服签证的困难。 我强调direct flight
， 因为一个病人是经不起转机的折腾的。
delivering
to
In
otherwise.
【在 c*****d 的大作中提到】
: Really appreciate you keeping this discussion going.
: I'd like to see what you guys think of the following issues.
: 1. Market need:
: There is already medical tourism existing to US from China: baby delivering
: in CA. The upside for that operation is because it involves a citizenship.
: But when people get sick and they have means, they will spend their money to
: save or extend their lives. Top 0.1% Chinese still makes a huge number. In
: addition, it is not cheap anyway to get top medical care in China otherwise.
: 2. Patient source and marketing: through chinese local doctors (patients
: need follow up later anyway) and through marketing machinery.
|
f******w
发帖数: 10267 | 50 几点疑惑，为啥要#1？#2，top notch如何评价？报名做3，4，5！
还有一个问题？这些病人怎样的病会选择来美国second opinion? 患感冒的来看美一眼
医生是不是没啥必要？
full
flight
【在 A*******s 的大作中提到】
: 我觉得顺序应该是这样：
: 1. 硬件， 一个像mayo clinic的医疗机构。
: 2. 软件， 需要Top notch specialists including mandarin speaking Docs， full
: cooperation， quality control，customer service， etc
: 3. 财政评估， 包括pricing， profit sharing， etc
: 4. Marketing， 可以让专业的广告公司做， 这是唯一需要花大钱的地方。
: 5. 最后是协调工作， 像travel arrangement， making appointment， 与中美医生沟
: 通， 这些可以contract， 也可以让有志在这方面发展的CMGs做。
: 看病可以与家属旅游结合起来， 这样还可以克服签证的困难。 我强调direct flight
: ， 因为一个病人是经不起转机的折腾的。
|
|
|
k********n
发帖数: 756 | 51 Why the rich ppl need u guys? They already have network. All major center
provide service u r proposing. |
m********4
发帖数: 607 | 52 Obviously, some people don't know who they are.
Pity ! |
A*******s
发帖数: 9638 | 53 你没到过mayo clinic吧？ 看看mayo的病历， 你就知道什么是一流的硬件了。
【在 f******w 的大作中提到】
: 几点疑惑，为啥要#1？#2，top notch如何评价？报名做3，4，5！
: 还有一个问题？这些病人怎样的病会选择来美国second opinion? 患感冒的来看美一眼
: 医生是不是没啥必要？
:
: full
: flight
|
A*******s
发帖数: 9638 | 54 You should ask:
Why the riches in China never thought about us?
In practice, I really think people missed my appointment actually have
missed a better care. :)
【在 k********n 的大作中提到】
: Why the rich ppl need u guys? They already have network. All major center
: provide service u r proposing.
|
k********n
发帖数: 756 | 55 Unless u r a super cow and dealing w a rare dz by cutting edge techs, no
much difference among good docs across the world. The rich don't need
anyone here to get into top notched medical center in US. |
c*****d
发帖数: 164 | 56 I appreciate any opinions here.
For those who have doubt here, for the record, this operation is already in
place in the practice I have daily contact with, and I have already started
to see occasional Chinese patients myself.
By the way, they are not super cows by any standards but they are indeed
physicians with business acumen.
The cost might not be as much as you think because of the bargin power of
cash; for example, a PET/CT only costs 1200 if paid in cash and can be done
the next day.
I am trying to see what you guys think, from a CMG point of view.
I agree that there is always competition from large institutions such as
Mayo, but you do not need 100% market share and smaller operations have
their own advantages. For this matter, that is why there are still private
practices instead of 100% large medical center market share.
Anyway, isn't it fun to think something outside of box? especially for us
without any training in business? |
A*******s
发帖数: 9638 | 57 True。 It is a braintease not a brainstorm.
Just like baobao's YY: Kobe Jordan is better than mike Jordan or Kobe Brian
， isn't he？ ：)
in
started
done
【在 c*****d 的大作中提到】
: I appreciate any opinions here.
: For those who have doubt here, for the record, this operation is already in
: place in the practice I have daily contact with, and I have already started
: to see occasional Chinese patients myself.
: By the way, they are not super cows by any standards but they are indeed
: physicians with business acumen.
: The cost might not be as much as you think because of the bargin power of
: cash; for example, a PET/CT only costs 1200 if paid in cash and can be done
: the next day.
: I am trying to see what you guys think, from a CMG point of view.
|
d******h
发帖数: 503 | 58 i do not think the chinese rich will come US to see a cmg. you know how
chinese don't trust chinese.
chinese rich would come to md anderson for md anderson, not for a particular
surgeon.
chinese rich came to japan for care is much easier.
power
going
you
for
【在 c*****d 的大作中提到】
: The whole world is witnessing the rise of Chinese economy and purchase power
: . Just want to bring up a discussion: anyone here as US-based physician is
: thinking of tapping into Chinese market.
: Recently, I have been talking to a local practice that is planning on
: bringing Chinese neo rich to the US for medical care. Of course, it is going
: to be boutique practice and will be ALL CASH business.
: We all have friends and classmates in major hospitals in China, what do you
: think the possibilities to do such business? What would be the obstacles for
: such an operations?
: Open for all discussions. Thanks
|
m****t
发帖数: 138 | 59 Well said
particular
【在 d******h 的大作中提到】
: i do not think the chinese rich will come US to see a cmg. you know how
: chinese don't trust chinese.
: chinese rich would come to md anderson for md anderson, not for a particular
: surgeon.
: chinese rich came to japan for care is much easier.
:
: power
: going
: you
: for
|
m******r
发帖数: 1904 | 60 Anyone here think about serving poor people in China? Quite curious about
this topic.
Does the money mean everything? |
|
|
w***0
发帖数: 222 | 61 Interesting idea but is it really profitable individually if you are using
the BIG names of medical centers here? If so, don't you believe that you
will simply end up dong advertising things for those centers in China?
Unless doing introduction of your own facility to the Chinese market.
power
going
you
for
【在 c*****d 的大作中提到】
: The whole world is witnessing the rise of Chinese economy and purchase power
: . Just want to bring up a discussion: anyone here as US-based physician is
: thinking of tapping into Chinese market.
: Recently, I have been talking to a local practice that is planning on
: bringing Chinese neo rich to the US for medical care. Of course, it is going
: to be boutique practice and will be ALL CASH business.
: We all have friends and classmates in major hospitals in China, what do you
: think the possibilities to do such business? What would be the obstacles for
: such an operations?
: Open for all discussions. Thanks
|
A*******s
发帖数: 9638 | 62 Would you mind starting a thread on that?
【在 m******r 的大作中提到】
: Anyone here think about serving poor people in China? Quite curious about
: this topic.
: Does the money mean everything?
|
A*******s
发帖数: 9638 | 63 I agree. I don't think you can succeed with a private practice or a small
group. This thing requires COOPERATION.
For me, I would avoid seeing any individual Chinese speaking only patient
because it is too time consuming.
【在 w***0 的大作中提到】
: Interesting idea but is it really profitable individually if you are using
: the BIG names of medical centers here? If so, don't you believe that you
: will simply end up dong advertising things for those centers in China?
: Unless doing introduction of your own facility to the Chinese market.
:
: power
: going
: you
: for
|
A*******s
发帖数: 9638 | 64 Education makes difference, that's why I emphasize the importance of
advertisement.
For Chinese rich ppl, they should know why US educated Chinese scientists
get Nobel prizes but none from mainland China so far.
For CMGs in US, we work for ourselves, not for any individuals. Patients
need our help, not we beg their money as charity, right? :)
particular
【在 d******h 的大作中提到】
: i do not think the chinese rich will come US to see a cmg. you know how
: chinese don't trust chinese.
: chinese rich would come to md anderson for md anderson, not for a particular
: surgeon.
: chinese rich came to japan for care is much easier.
:
: power
: going
: you
: for
|
b*w
发帖数: 2062 | 65 能多说两句吗？
【在 A*******s 的大作中提到】
: 你没到过mayo clinic吧？ 看看mayo的病历， 你就知道什么是一流的硬件了。
|
A*******s
发帖数: 9638 | 66 每一个到Mayo clinic看病的人， 都会带回来一个厚厚的病历夹， 读一下里面的内容
， 你就知道他们的水平了。 接诊医生第一天看完病， 提出可能的诊断， 然后开始收
集证据， 包括检查， 会诊， 最后提出最终诊断和治疗方案， 一般一个星期时间，
病人住在医院附近， 节省了住院费用。
我用过很多大医学院的会诊，很少看到有不同于我自己诊断的。 Mayo是例外， 结果总
是让我吃惊。 所以我对我病人说， 如果有条件， 去Mayo at MN。 别的Mayo就不要费
劲了。
经常看看自己病人的mayo会诊， 对自己的诊疗水平绝对是一个促进。
【在 b*w 的大作中提到】
: 能多说两句吗？
|
d******h
发帖数: 503 | 67 less ads is better than more. If you can publish more on pubmed, it might
help you. In medicine, obvious promotion is bad. Subtlety is golden.
Probably you have already learned that many classmates of yours would tell
your potential client that American doctors get less cases, less practice,
and less experience than themselves.
No. You are attracting patients with everything you have. Patients have
choices.
【在 A*******s 的大作中提到】
: Education makes difference, that's why I emphasize the importance of
: advertisement.
: For Chinese rich ppl, they should know why US educated Chinese scientists
: get Nobel prizes but none from mainland China so far.
: For CMGs in US, we work for ourselves, not for any individuals. Patients
: need our help, not we beg their money as charity, right? :)
:
: particular
|
A*******s
发帖数: 9638 | 68 我觉得在最开始的时候， 应该有一个大张旗鼓的宣传， 以后就是reputation了。
中国的医生看的病人很多， 这对医生来说很重要， 可是， 什么样的师父带出什么样
的徒弟， 经验可不是医学的全部。
最近一次在北京开的国际会议， 了解到中国医生还在用甘露醇治疗急诊室的头疼。 问
他们为什么，说是常规， 降低脑水肿/颅内压。 他们应该知道， 绝大部分的头疼颅内
压是正常的。 即使颅内压高， 也不是那么个降法。
我20年前就知道他们这么做， 现在还是没变， 有意思。
【在 d******h 的大作中提到】
: less ads is better than more. If you can publish more on pubmed, it might
: help you. In medicine, obvious promotion is bad. Subtlety is golden.
: Probably you have already learned that many classmates of yours would tell
: your potential client that American doctors get less cases, less practice,
: and less experience than themselves.
: No. You are attracting patients with everything you have. Patients have
: choices.
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d******h
发帖数: 503 | 69 If you want to go this route, the best strategy should be going back to
China and set up your international clinic over there.
【在 A*******s 的大作中提到】
: 我觉得在最开始的时候， 应该有一个大张旗鼓的宣传， 以后就是reputation了。
: 中国的医生看的病人很多， 这对医生来说很重要， 可是， 什么样的师父带出什么样
: 的徒弟， 经验可不是医学的全部。
: 最近一次在北京开的国际会议， 了解到中国医生还在用甘露醇治疗急诊室的头疼。 问
: 他们为什么，说是常规， 降低脑水肿/颅内压。 他们应该知道， 绝大部分的头疼颅内
: 压是正常的。 即使颅内压高， 也不是那么个降法。
: 我20年前就知道他们这么做， 现在还是没变， 有意思。
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y******a
发帖数: 590 | 70 说说他们看一个病人花多长时间
【在 A*******s 的大作中提到】
: 每一个到Mayo clinic看病的人， 都会带回来一个厚厚的病历夹， 读一下里面的内容
: ， 你就知道他们的水平了。 接诊医生第一天看完病， 提出可能的诊断， 然后开始收
: 集证据， 包括检查， 会诊， 最后提出最终诊断和治疗方案， 一般一个星期时间，
: 病人住在医院附近， 节省了住院费用。
: 我用过很多大医学院的会诊，很少看到有不同于我自己诊断的。 Mayo是例外， 结果总
: 是让我吃惊。 所以我对我病人说， 如果有条件， 去Mayo at MN。 别的Mayo就不要费
: 劲了。
: 经常看看自己病人的mayo会诊， 对自己的诊疗水平绝对是一个促进。
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|
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y******a
发帖数: 590 | 71 并不是看得多看得快的大夫就是好大夫
【在 d******h 的大作中提到】
: less ads is better than more. If you can publish more on pubmed, it might
: help you. In medicine, obvious promotion is bad. Subtlety is golden.
: Probably you have already learned that many classmates of yours would tell
: your potential client that American doctors get less cases, less practice,
: and less experience than themselves.
: No. You are attracting patients with everything you have. Patients have
: choices.
|
R**H
发帖数: 50 | 72 这个以后一定要搞一个看看。
【在 A*******s 的大作中提到】
: 每一个到Mayo clinic看病的人， 都会带回来一个厚厚的病历夹， 读一下里面的内容
: ， 你就知道他们的水平了。 接诊医生第一天看完病， 提出可能的诊断， 然后开始收
: 集证据， 包括检查， 会诊， 最后提出最终诊断和治疗方案， 一般一个星期时间，
: 病人住在医院附近， 节省了住院费用。
: 我用过很多大医学院的会诊，很少看到有不同于我自己诊断的。 Mayo是例外， 结果总
: 是让我吃惊。 所以我对我病人说， 如果有条件， 去Mayo at MN。 别的Mayo就不要费
: 劲了。
: 经常看看自己病人的mayo会诊， 对自己的诊疗水平绝对是一个促进。
|
e*********d
发帖数: 41 | 73 Very interesting discussions.
I also think this is a good business model and there will be a huge market
in China for this.
I think the key, or the only key, here is marketing in China; all other
elements mentioned in A++'s post are currently available somewhere and can
be accomplished through contracting with existing service vendors, like US
hospitals, physician groups, travel agencies etc.
Also, Chinese patients can get most of radiology or pathology related
services in China; that will save them a lot of money once they land in US;
they only need to pay for surgeries, drugs and inpatient services.
Again, very interested in your insights. |
A*******s
发帖数: 9638 | 74 30 min-1 hr.
【在 y******a 的大作中提到】
: 说说他们看一个病人花多长时间
|
A*******s
发帖数: 9638 | 75 This topic actually is very complex.
International healthcare is no long medicine only but businesses. So we
surely need to talk about the market. As long as there is a need, there
will be business there.
For CMGs staying in US, some specialties including GPs probably are not
going to benefit out of it. International patients are more like VIPs, and
you will end up with more effort less pay. Certain specialties like surgery
, however, may be profitable.
Anyone thought about building a hospital in China to take Americans for their
healthcare? I know Indians are doing that.
;
【在 e*********d 的大作中提到】
: Very interesting discussions.
: I also think this is a good business model and there will be a huge market
: in China for this.
: I think the key, or the only key, here is marketing in China; all other
: elements mentioned in A++'s post are currently available somewhere and can
: be accomplished through contracting with existing service vendors, like US
: hospitals, physician groups, travel agencies etc.
: Also, Chinese patients can get most of radiology or pathology related
: services in China; that will save them a lot of money once they land in US;
: they only need to pay for surgeries, drugs and inpatient services.
|
D*********r
发帖数: 371 | 76 House MD的真人版啊，感觉如果做内科这种模型太爽了
【在 A*******s 的大作中提到】
: 每一个到Mayo clinic看病的人， 都会带回来一个厚厚的病历夹， 读一下里面的内容
: ， 你就知道他们的水平了。 接诊医生第一天看完病， 提出可能的诊断， 然后开始收
: 集证据， 包括检查， 会诊， 最后提出最终诊断和治疗方案， 一般一个星期时间，
: 病人住在医院附近， 节省了住院费用。
: 我用过很多大医学院的会诊，很少看到有不同于我自己诊断的。 Mayo是例外， 结果总
: 是让我吃惊。 所以我对我病人说， 如果有条件， 去Mayo at MN。 别的Mayo就不要费
: 劲了。
: 经常看看自己病人的mayo会诊， 对自己的诊疗水平绝对是一个促进。
|
