c*****t
发帖数: 562 | 1 算了一下, 1 therm = 29.3kwh
1 therm算1刀,29.3kwh算3刀
furnace算80%效率,电暖气算100%效率
热一个MB估计还是比热一层楼核算
楼上楼下我射55度,不会爆水管就好 |
c********h
发帖数: 7827 | |
R**R
发帖数: 3318 | 3 太累。
【在 c*****t 的大作中提到】
: 算了一下, 1 therm = 29.3kwh
: 1 therm算1刀,29.3kwh算3刀
: furnace算80%效率,电暖气算100%效率
: 热一个MB估计还是比热一层楼核算
: 楼上楼下我射55度,不会爆水管就好
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 4 So your goal is save money, right?
They make a heating wire that can wrap around water pipe to keep it from
frozen. If you do that, you can keep the house temp below 32 F, that will
save a lot of energy dropping from the 55 F in your design.
A better way to is insulate the house and get better windows. I have helped
a friend design and built a house in northern Canada a few years back, his
main goal was to cut down heating cost and be comfortable. We did everything
we can to insulate the house a
【在 c*****t 的大作中提到】
: 算了一下, 1 therm = 29.3kwh
: 1 therm算1刀,29.3kwh算3刀
: furnace算80%效率,电暖气算100%效率
: 热一个MB估计还是比热一层楼核算
: 楼上楼下我射55度,不会爆水管就好
|
S*****g
发帖数: 282 | |
c*****t
发帖数: 562 | 6 Our house is a new construction, with pretty good insulation, I think the R
value is 58 which the builder said is good enough for mid atlantic. The
house seems to hold heat well, it actually barely drops below 60F through
the night.
I also want to keep the inside temp at a reasonable level while try to save
some money if possible. I won't go either direction to an extreme point.
helped
everything
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: So your goal is save money, right?
: They make a heating wire that can wrap around water pipe to keep it from
: frozen. If you do that, you can keep the house temp below 32 F, that will
: save a lot of energy dropping from the 55 F in your design.
: A better way to is insulate the house and get better windows. I have helped
: a friend design and built a house in northern Canada a few years back, his
: main goal was to cut down heating cost and be comfortable. We did everything
: we can to insulate the house a
|
m***y
发帖数: 14763 | 7 It's not energy-efficient :) |
c********h
发帖数: 7827 | 8 very impressive!
请问建筑成本上升多少？想知道经济性如何？
helped
everything
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: So your goal is save money, right?
: They make a heating wire that can wrap around water pipe to keep it from
: frozen. If you do that, you can keep the house temp below 32 F, that will
: save a lot of energy dropping from the 55 F in your design.
: A better way to is insulate the house and get better windows. I have helped
: a friend design and built a house in northern Canada a few years back, his
: main goal was to cut down heating cost and be comfortable. We did everything
: we can to insulate the house a
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 9 About 3700 sq ft not including finished basement, cost about $120,000 (
including some furniture to match the cabinets) in material and paid labor.
Most of the hired labor cost was spent on concrete pump truck and crane to
put up the SIP in garage.
95% of the materials and 99% of the tools are shipped from China (6 40 foot
container), and he and some friends did most of the inside work. I only
helped in design and put up the basic structure.
【在 c********h 的大作中提到】
: very impressive!
: 请问建筑成本上升多少？想知道经济性如何？
:
: helped
: everything
|
c********h
发帖数: 7827 | 10 12万是完全自己建还是只是加绝缘？
.
foot
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: About 3700 sq ft not including finished basement, cost about $120,000 (
: including some furniture to match the cabinets) in material and paid labor.
: Most of the hired labor cost was spent on concrete pump truck and crane to
: put up the SIP in garage.
: 95% of the materials and 99% of the tools are shipped from China (6 40 foot
: container), and he and some friends did most of the inside work. I only
: helped in design and put up the basic structure.
|
|
|
p******0
发帖数: 290 | 11 看家里有多少人吧。
家里人少，就小电热器比较划算。 |
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 12 There is the total cost of the house built from scratch, does not count the
labor provided by the owner and a few of his friends that helped over
weekend. It does count for most of the furniture and decoration that is in
the house. I helped him get (and custom make) the stuff from China, so I
know the cost. Since he was my friend I did not make any money on this, so
figure another 5 to 10%. But his house helped me gained a lot of clients, so
it worked out ok for me too.
【在 c********h 的大作中提到】
: 12万是完全自己建还是只是加绝缘？
:
: .
: foot
|
c********h
发帖数: 7827 | 13 真便宜啊！admire!
你知道他的额外开销多少？就是和一般的building code要求比
the
so
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: There is the total cost of the house built from scratch, does not count the
: labor provided by the owner and a few of his friends that helped over
: weekend. It does count for most of the furniture and decoration that is in
: the house. I helped him get (and custom make) the stuff from China, so I
: know the cost. Since he was my friend I did not make any money on this, so
: figure another 5 to 10%. But his house helped me gained a lot of clients, so
: it worked out ok for me too.
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 14
Not sure what you are asking here, but he worked on it for about 6 month,
most of the time was spent laying the brick, trim all the window and doors,
tile all 6 bathroom, sheet rock and paint, I know he spend almost 1 month
just on his home theater (was completed after he moved in).
就是和一般的building code要求比
The building meets the code and was inspected along the way, not sure how
much the permit cost, but I guess not so much.
【在 c********h 的大作中提到】
: 真便宜啊！admire!
: 你知道他的额外开销多少？就是和一般的building code要求比
:
: the
: so
|
c********h
发帖数: 7827 | 15 sorry我没问明白
我的意思是code要求的R肯定没有110吧？比如说50，你能估计多花了多少钱从50提高到
110？
,
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
:
: Not sure what you are asking here, but he worked on it for about 6 month,
: most of the time was spent laying the brick, trim all the window and doors,
: tile all 6 bathroom, sheet rock and paint, I know he spend almost 1 month
: just on his home theater (was completed after he moved in).
: 就是和一般的building code要求比
: The building meets the code and was inspected along the way, not sure how
: much the permit cost, but I guess not so much.
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 16 No code is much much less.
Every city and county have their own code, so you have to find that info
locally.
Here is a guide line from DOE.
http://www.energycodes.gov/training/consumer_ed/insulation.stm
110 is way way over engineered, but that is what my friend wanted, and he
did spend extra money on it (at least 10K I would say). But depending on
where you live, if you can achieve 50 over all (not just the ceiling), you
are doing way better than code, I believe it even exceed energy star
requir
【在 c********h 的大作中提到】
: sorry我没问明白
: 我的意思是code要求的R肯定没有110吧？比如说50，你能估计多花了多少钱从50提高到
: 110？
:
: ,
|
T*********e
发帖数: 9208 | 17 是啊，封得那么死，那他们家怎么换气？
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: No code is much much less.
: Every city and county have their own code, so you have to find that info
: locally.
: Here is a guide line from DOE.
: http://www.energycodes.gov/training/consumer_ed/insulation.stm
: 110 is way way over engineered, but that is what my friend wanted, and he
: did spend extra money on it (at least 10K I would say). But depending on
: where you live, if you can achieve 50 over all (not just the ceiling), you
: are doing way better than code, I believe it even exceed energy star
: requir
|
c********h
发帖数: 7827 | 18 我就是说和他当地的要求比。
这个1万花得很值啊，谢谢，学习了。
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: No code is much much less.
: Every city and county have their own code, so you have to find that info
: locally.
: Here is a guide line from DOE.
: http://www.energycodes.gov/training/consumer_ed/insulation.stm
: 110 is way way over engineered, but that is what my friend wanted, and he
: did spend extra money on it (at least 10K I would say). But depending on
: where you live, if you can achieve 50 over all (not just the ceiling), you
: are doing way better than code, I believe it even exceed energy star
: requir
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 19 Use energy recovery ventilation. It is the energy recovery process of
exchanging the energy contained in normally exhausted building and using it
to treat the incoming outdoor ventilation air in the HVAC systems. The
benefit of using energy recovery is the ability to meet the ASHRAE
ventilation & energy standards, while improving indoor air quality, and
reducing total HVAC equipment capacity.
The good part is house is virtually dust free. In his case, it can exchange
all the air in it from 7 tim
【在 T*********e 的大作中提到】
: 是啊，封得那么死，那他们家怎么换气？
|
c********h
发帖数: 7827 | 20 你是做这个专业吗?
it
exchange
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: Use energy recovery ventilation. It is the energy recovery process of
: exchanging the energy contained in normally exhausted building and using it
: to treat the incoming outdoor ventilation air in the HVAC systems. The
: benefit of using energy recovery is the ability to meet the ASHRAE
: ventilation & energy standards, while improving indoor air quality, and
: reducing total HVAC equipment capacity.
: The good part is house is virtually dust free. In his case, it can exchange
: all the air in it from 7 tim
|
|
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 21 I design, make, import and sell high end building material. I also expand a
little into energy efficient construction now.
【在 c********h 的大作中提到】
: 你是做这个专业吗?
:
: it
: exchange
|
l******e
发帖数: 24 | 22 太厉害了！
我家是new built house，不知道在现有的基础上还能做什么改进？
你朋友家的房子是哪年的？
from
will
helped
his
everything
The
real
mostly
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: So your goal is save money, right?
: They make a heating wire that can wrap around water pipe to keep it from
: frozen. If you do that, you can keep the house temp below 32 F, that will
: save a lot of energy dropping from the 55 F in your design.
: A better way to is insulate the house and get better windows. I have helped
: a friend design and built a house in northern Canada a few years back, his
: main goal was to cut down heating cost and be comfortable. We did everything
: we can to insulate the house a
|
h********y
发帖数: 3778 | 23 excellent!
ICF+SIP，那基本上是现在民用住房最好的envelope了
不过ICF本身的建筑成本很不低啊，而且ICF contractor不像stick built framer那么
多，不好找哇
helped
everything
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: So your goal is save money, right?
: They make a heating wire that can wrap around water pipe to keep it from
: frozen. If you do that, you can keep the house temp below 32 F, that will
: save a lot of energy dropping from the 55 F in your design.
: A better way to is insulate the house and get better windows. I have helped
: a friend design and built a house in northern Canada a few years back, his
: main goal was to cut down heating cost and be comfortable. We did everything
: we can to insulate the house a
|
h********y
发帖数: 3778 | 24 这个价钱肯定是得自己码ICF form吧
这个也需要点skills的。owner本人是不是有这方面的基础？
.
foot
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: About 3700 sq ft not including finished basement, cost about $120,000 (
: including some furniture to match the cabinets) in material and paid labor.
: Most of the hired labor cost was spent on concrete pump truck and crane to
: put up the SIP in garage.
: 95% of the materials and 99% of the tools are shipped from China (6 40 foot
: container), and he and some friends did most of the inside work. I only
: helped in design and put up the basic structure.
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 25 My friend's house is built in 2006 to 2007.
Tell me where you live first, or provide avg summer and winter temp at least
. I give you a few suggestions.
【在 l******e 的大作中提到】
: 太厉害了！
: 我家是new built house，不知道在现有的基础上还能做什么改进？
: 你朋友家的房子是哪年的？
:
: from
: will
: helped
: his
: everything
: The
|
l*********d
发帖数: 21519 | 26 我什么都不想用，我就喜欢晚上外面冷得要死，自己缩在暖暖的被窝里，可惜这里怕水
管被冻裂，害我晚上都把自己的房间开点窗户。 |
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 27 Yes, he setup the ICF himself, the whole thing was done in less than 3 days,
very easy once you figure out what to do. A concrete truck stop by every 1/
2 hour, he rented the pump truck for the whole day. All you need to do is
send a vibrator up and down after concrete is poured in. In order to prevent
any crack in the future, we used 18000 psi super crete for the foundation.
Owner was an IT person, with no experience building house before.
【在 h********y 的大作中提到】
: 这个价钱肯定是得自己码ICF form吧
: 这个也需要点skills的。owner本人是不是有这方面的基础？
:
: .
: foot
|
h********y
发帖数: 3778 | 28 多谢提点！
这个帖子看得太过瘾了，又一次勾起我对ICF的兴趣
能再嘴问句吗？
ICF房子的design是不是和普通的不一样，最好找有这方面经验的architect?
当时所用的icf form是哪家的,也是从国内进口来的吗？
都有哪些建筑材料可以考虑从国内进口，我所知道有石材，cabinet,灯
it
exchange
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: Use energy recovery ventilation. It is the energy recovery process of
: exchanging the energy contained in normally exhausted building and using it
: to treat the incoming outdoor ventilation air in the HVAC systems. The
: benefit of using energy recovery is the ability to meet the ASHRAE
: ventilation & energy standards, while improving indoor air quality, and
: reducing total HVAC equipment capacity.
: The good part is house is virtually dust free. In his case, it can exchange
: all the air in it from 7 tim
|
h********y
发帖数: 3778 | 29 cool！！！
多谢多谢，严肃考虑这个option中。。。虽然我曾经考虑过也放弃过 :D
days,
1/
prevent
.
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: Yes, he setup the ICF himself, the whole thing was done in less than 3 days,
: very easy once you figure out what to do. A concrete truck stop by every 1/
: 2 hour, he rented the pump truck for the whole day. All you need to do is
: send a vibrator up and down after concrete is poured in. In order to prevent
: any crack in the future, we used 18000 psi super crete for the foundation.
: Owner was an IT person, with no experience building house before.
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 30 If you are afraid the pipe will freeze, why don't you winterize it. Even a
simple circulation pump will prevent it from freezing unless your house is
really cold. If it get below freeze for long time, you will need to worry
about the water in the drain.
Just curious to know: what is the outside temp when you still leave your
window open.
【在 l*********d 的大作中提到】
: 我什么都不想用，我就喜欢晚上外面冷得要死，自己缩在暖暖的被窝里，可惜这里怕水
: 管被冻裂，害我晚上都把自己的房间开点窗户。
|
|
|
h********y
发帖数: 3778 | 31 18000psi的水泥！！！我见过的貌似用的是4000psi哇
那rebar是不是也要粗很多，贵出不少钱钱吧。。。
浇水泥的时候应该也要请有经验的人浇吧（除了租用pump truck之外），感觉浇水泥也
是一
技术活，比码Form技术性强些
days,
1/
prevent
.
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: Yes, he setup the ICF himself, the whole thing was done in less than 3 days,
: very easy once you figure out what to do. A concrete truck stop by every 1/
: 2 hour, he rented the pump truck for the whole day. All you need to do is
: send a vibrator up and down after concrete is poured in. In order to prevent
: any crack in the future, we used 18000 psi super crete for the foundation.
: Owner was an IT person, with no experience building house before.
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 32 You can use almost all existing house plan (there is some span limit on roof
and floor) so the largest room you can make is some what limited to which
ICF system you go with. I think most architect should be ok. Almost
everything in the house is imported from China (some item, such as Marble
was imported from Italy to China first). Very few things at that time are
bought here (because China does not make them yet, such as PEX and sharkbite
), but I believe 99.9% can be bought from china now, but
【在 h********y 的大作中提到】
: 多谢提点！
: 这个帖子看得太过瘾了，又一次勾起我对ICF的兴趣
: 能再嘴问句吗？
: ICF房子的design是不是和普通的不一样，最好找有这方面经验的architect?
: 当时所用的icf form是哪家的,也是从国内进口来的吗？
: 都有哪些建筑材料可以考虑从国内进口，我所知道有石材，cabinet,灯
:
: it
: exchange
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 33 Super crete is only used for foundation, he want to make sure it will not
crack even after many years, that is the same concrete mix used to build
skyscraper. Walls are 8 inch 4500 psi concrete with fiber and ash added to
the mix.
Once the ICFs are built and supported, pouring concrete is a easy job with
pump truck. Plus you do not need to finish any suface (all the concrete is
inside the foam and you will never see them).
His garage floor is SIP (too long for ICF to span), he did hire pro for t
【在 h********y 的大作中提到】
: 18000psi的水泥！！！我见过的貌似用的是4000psi哇
: 那rebar是不是也要粗很多，贵出不少钱钱吧。。。
: 浇水泥的时候应该也要请有经验的人浇吧（除了租用pump truck之外），感觉浇水泥也
: 是一
: 技术活，比码Form技术性强些
:
: days,
: 1/
: prevent
: .
|
D*r
发帖数: 1298 | 34 2楼的地板也用ICF吗？我们也在考虑建ICF的房子，正在调查可行性。
谢谢你share你的经验。你在美国吗？从中国进口建材到美国有没有什么特殊要求？
that
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: Super crete is only used for foundation, he want to make sure it will not
: crack even after many years, that is the same concrete mix used to build
: skyscraper. Walls are 8 inch 4500 psi concrete with fiber and ash added to
: the mix.
: Once the ICFs are built and supported, pouring concrete is a easy job with
: pump truck. Plus you do not need to finish any suface (all the concrete is
: inside the foam and you will never see them).
: His garage floor is SIP (too long for ICF to span), he did hire pro for t
|
D*r
发帖数: 1298 | 35 我们在西雅图，average summer 大概73-80，average winter大概35-40。
winter wet, summer dry.
最高的risk是地震，请问你有什么好建议？
现在的建材和labor不比06，07年贵多少吧？
least
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: My friend's house is built in 2006 to 2007.
: Tell me where you live first, or provide avg summer and winter temp at least
: . I give you a few suggestions.
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 36
yes.
我们也在考虑建ICF的房子，正在调查可行性。
yes, east coast near DC.
从中国进口建材到美国有没有什么特殊要求？
Depending on what you bring, most of them does not have special requirement.
It is best you get at least one 20 ft container at a time. Most average
size house from ground up can take 4 to 6 40 ft container worth of material.
Some of the large single piece can be very heavy, you will need muscle to
move them. I have shipped large one piece marble tub that weigh nearly 6000
lb, one piece carved marble fire place that weigh
【在 D*r 的大作中提到】
: 2楼的地板也用ICF吗？我们也在考虑建ICF的房子，正在调查可行性。
: 谢谢你share你的经验。你在美国吗？从中国进口建材到美国有没有什么特殊要求？
:
: that
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 37 Your climate is very mild, so spend more to increase your R value is not so
important. I would suggest a ICF or SIP house anywhere in US. If you build
your house that way, R value should be more than enough. Get good window and
doors, you can also design the house with window and over hang just right
so you can get solar heating in winter and almost no sun in the summer time.
I don't much about how to make a building earth quake proof, but I have
known a few people that have built ICF home with
【在 D*r 的大作中提到】
: 我们在西雅图，average summer 大概73-80，average winter大概35-40。
: winter wet, summer dry.
: 最高的risk是地震，请问你有什么好建议？
: 现在的建材和labor不比06，07年贵多少吧？
:
: least
|
c********h
发帖数: 7827 | 38 谢谢，我加你好友了，将来要有机会自己盖，一定找你咨询
a
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: I design, make, import and sell high end building material. I also expand a
: little into energy efficient construction now.
|
h********y
发帖数: 3778 | 39 嗯，是的，北方或者南方建ICF主要在绝热方面的benefit比较高
西雅图地区大概主要的benefit是抗震。因为ICF是水泥浇灌的，本身就很durable。
再想增加抗震可能就是在某些细节方面.其实这也是我犹豫之处,因为气候mild,
夏天基本上不用空调，冬天暖气也不怎么费。
你们当时建房ICF+SIP是用ICF的外墙+SIP的屋顶，车库的地板是SIP，二楼的floor
也是ICF的我还没见过哩，太强了。我见过的都是ICF外墙+I joist subfloor+
truss roof+木头的内墙。我感觉ICF floor要增加不少建筑成本啊，能做
到12万/3700sq ft简直太不敢想像了。
SIP manufacturer好像好几个都在加拿大，可能这方面成本要比美国低一些？
so
and
time.
less
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: Your climate is very mild, so spend more to increase your R value is not so
: important. I would suggest a ICF or SIP house anywhere in US. If you build
: your house that way, R value should be more than enough. Get good window and
: doors, you can also design the house with window and over hang just right
: so you can get solar heating in winter and almost no sun in the summer time.
: I don't much about how to make a building earth quake proof, but I have
: known a few people that have built ICF home with
|
h********y
发帖数: 3778 | 40 我们这里气候mild,是我当时放弃ICF的主要原因。因为夏天不需要空调，冬天暖气
也不怎么费，所以ICF在节省能源方面我们基本benefit很少。加上ICF势必会增加
的那部分建筑成本，不知道多少年能pay back.所以如果选ICF，大概肯定会自己
码form来平衡下建筑成本。
so
and
time.
less
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: Your climate is very mild, so spend more to increase your R value is not so
: important. I would suggest a ICF or SIP house anywhere in US. If you build
: your house that way, R value should be more than enough. Get good window and
: doors, you can also design the house with window and over hang just right
: so you can get solar heating in winter and almost no sun in the summer time.
: I don't much about how to make a building earth quake proof, but I have
: known a few people that have built ICF home with
|
|
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D*r
发帖数: 1298 | 41 2曾楼的房子水泥灌注你朋友没请工人也自己做的吗？好厉害。
requirement.
material.
6000
那你们当初是怎么搬回去的？搬家公司肯定干不了这活，什么公司能做这样的labor呢？
ICF的form，我看网上的推荐觉得BuildBlock好（http://www.buildblock.com/），
听说rewardwall也不错。这种的中国也可以买吗？体积占的很大，好像如果从中国进，
就不如knock down的那种了，比如说quadlockhttp://www.quadlock.com/.
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: Your climate is very mild, so spend more to increase your R value is not so
: important. I would suggest a ICF or SIP house anywhere in US. If you build
: your house that way, R value should be more than enough. Get good window and
: doors, you can also design the house with window and over hang just right
: so you can get solar heating in winter and almost no sun in the summer time.
: I don't much about how to make a building earth quake proof, but I have
: known a few people that have built ICF home with
|
D*r
发帖数: 1298 | 42 从12万3700来看，ICF实际比木头成本低！
水泥中国比美国便宜多了吧？主要还是ICF labor不需要木头那么多了。
尤其是如果自己能垒2楼的form，还能灌水泥。木头房子的frame很少
homeowner能做的吧？
【在 h********y 的大作中提到】
: 我们这里气候mild,是我当时放弃ICF的主要原因。因为夏天不需要空调，冬天暖气
: 也不怎么费，所以ICF在节省能源方面我们基本benefit很少。加上ICF势必会增加
: 的那部分建筑成本，不知道多少年能pay back.所以如果选ICF，大概肯定会自己
: 码form来平衡下建筑成本。
:
: so
: and
: time.
: less
|
D*r
发帖数: 1298 | 43 对了，我们这种气候，是不是ICF墙选4 inch，门窗double pane就行了？
能不能外墙6，内墙4呢？还是说内墙用木头更好？
我看到一些木头房子的设计，1楼和2楼的大窗户正好错开，ICF的设计是不是
窗户开口上下对上比较好？因为要两层楼的钢筋。还是说，反正钢筋可以弯，
无所谓？再或者，有门窗的地方就不能放钢筋了？
so
and
time.
less
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: Your climate is very mild, so spend more to increase your R value is not so
: important. I would suggest a ICF or SIP house anywhere in US. If you build
: your house that way, R value should be more than enough. Get good window and
: doors, you can also design the house with window and over hang just right
: so you can get solar heating in winter and almost no sun in the summer time.
: I don't much about how to make a building earth quake proof, but I have
: known a few people that have built ICF home with
|
h********y
发帖数: 3778 | 44 一般ICF都是6 inch墙。4 inch反而少见，成本不一定会便宜。
至于内墙是否还用ICF，是我我就不会用，我会用2x4 stud
窗户是不是错开无所谓吧？我的印象里1楼的外墙先浇，浇完上
二层的floor,然后再做2楼的外墙。不过我还没做过，目前还是
纸上谈兵。
有门窗的地方肯定不放钢筋的。
【在 D*r 的大作中提到】
: 对了，我们这种气候，是不是ICF墙选4 inch，门窗double pane就行了？
: 能不能外墙6，内墙4呢？还是说内墙用木头更好？
: 我看到一些木头房子的设计，1楼和2楼的大窗户正好错开，ICF的设计是不是
: 窗户开口上下对上比较好？因为要两层楼的钢筋。还是说，反正钢筋可以弯，
: 无所谓？再或者，有门窗的地方就不能放钢筋了？
:
: so
: and
: time.
: less
|
h********y
发帖数: 3778 | 45 当然了，如果12万3700的成本肯定比木头房子便宜不是一点半点
可这个成本多少人能做到啊
水泥不会也从中国进口的吧？我以为水泥都是在浇灌水泥的公司买的，
告诉他们规格他们直接给调配好，到时候pump truck拉过来现场浇灌
ICF的好处之一也就是home owner可以DIY省点人工。所以现在没什么
tract home用ICF呢，倒是habbitat for humanity这些可以有很多volunteer
的，有的地方HFH的房子是用ICF滴
【在 D*r 的大作中提到】
: 从12万3700来看，ICF实际比木头成本低！
: 水泥中国比美国便宜多了吧？主要还是ICF labor不需要木头那么多了。
: 尤其是如果自己能垒2楼的form，还能灌水泥。木头房子的frame很少
: homeowner能做的吧？
|
D*r
发帖数: 1298 | 46 会便宜啊，水泥少用好多呢。4，6，8的都能买到，越薄越便宜。
我看到的钢筋都是长长的留够，而不是一楼一段，二楼一段。不过
我看的是商业楼的ICF建法。民用的好像他们演示的都是一层的。
水泥那个，如果砖，大理石都能从中国运，那水泥更可以了。自己混
应该也行的吧？否则成本不可能下来。
【在 h********y 的大作中提到】
: 一般ICF都是6 inch墙。4 inch反而少见，成本不一定会便宜。
: 至于内墙是否还用ICF，是我我就不会用，我会用2x4 stud
: 窗户是不是错开无所谓吧？我的印象里1楼的外墙先浇，浇完上
: 二层的floor,然后再做2楼的外墙。不过我还没做过，目前还是
: 纸上谈兵。
: 有门窗的地方肯定不放钢筋的。
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 47 ICF is more expensive for small house, but it is usually cheaper for big
house compare to wood stud frame.
【在 D*r 的大作中提到】
: 从12万3700来看，ICF实际比木头成本低！
: 水泥中国比美国便宜多了吧？主要还是ICF labor不需要木头那么多了。
: 尤其是如果自己能垒2楼的form，还能灌水泥。木头房子的frame很少
: homeowner能做的吧？
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 48 I think 4 inch is not strong enough, I would go at least 6 inch. Some ICF
set up, use 4 inch wall but 6 inch post, I think they should be ok, save
concrete and stong at the same time.
Use Double-Glazed with Moderate-Solar-Gain Low-E Glass, Argon/Krypton Gas
Filled.
I like Wood Clad frame with Low Conductance Spacers.
You can have the window any where, I don't think make any difference. You
still need rebar around the window and door. But it very hard to move the
window to a different location on
【在 D*r 的大作中提到】
: 对了，我们这种气候，是不是ICF墙选4 inch，门窗double pane就行了？
: 能不能外墙6，内墙4呢？还是说内墙用木头更好？
: 我看到一些木头房子的设计，1楼和2楼的大窗户正好错开，ICF的设计是不是
: 窗户开口上下对上比较好？因为要两层楼的钢筋。还是说，反正钢筋可以弯，
: 无所谓？再或者，有门窗的地方就不能放钢筋了？
:
: so
: and
: time.
: less
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 49 Depending on where you live, ICF is more popular now. Concrete is bought
from concrete company, just specify what kind of mix you want. Renting pump
truck is expensive, so try to finish in one day. Also make sure they don't
pump too fast, slow is better.
120K for a large house because owner took time off and use his own labor.
The house is actually bigger, but only 3700 sq ft is finished right now, he
can choose to finish more later on, if their parents come to stay or they
have a lot of kids la
【在 h********y 的大作中提到】
: 当然了，如果12万3700的成本肯定比木头房子便宜不是一点半点
: 可这个成本多少人能做到啊
: 水泥不会也从中国进口的吧？我以为水泥都是在浇灌水泥的公司买的，
: 告诉他们规格他们直接给调配好，到时候pump truck拉过来现场浇灌
: ICF的好处之一也就是home owner可以DIY省点人工。所以现在没什么
: tract home用ICF呢，倒是habbitat for humanity这些可以有很多volunteer
: 的，有的地方HFH的房子是用ICF滴
|
c********h
发帖数: 7827 | 50 靠...这这这..12万盖的房子?!
pump
he
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: Depending on where you live, ICF is more popular now. Concrete is bought
: from concrete company, just specify what kind of mix you want. Renting pump
: truck is expensive, so try to finish in one day. Also make sure they don't
: pump too fast, slow is better.
: 120K for a large house because owner took time off and use his own labor.
: The house is actually bigger, but only 3700 sq ft is finished right now, he
: can choose to finish more later on, if their parents come to stay or they
: have a lot of kids la
|
|
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g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 51 Yes, but only 3700 sq ft of inside is finished.
Please also remember owner spend almost half a year working on it. And most
of the stuff is bought from China factory direct (so very very cheap compare
to US retail)
【在 c********h 的大作中提到】
: 靠...这这这..12万盖的房子?!
:
: pump
: he
|
D*r
发帖数: 1298 | 52 So cool! I will definitely build one, not buy one.
Is it stucco? So with ICF, stucco is also ok for wet
locations?
Wow.
btw, how much is the import duty to the US for most of the material?
bought
pump
don't
labor.
now, he
they
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: Depending on where you live, ICF is more popular now. Concrete is bought
: from concrete company, just specify what kind of mix you want. Renting pump
: truck is expensive, so try to finish in one day. Also make sure they don't
: pump too fast, slow is better.
: 120K for a large house because owner took time off and use his own labor.
: The house is actually bigger, but only 3700 sq ft is finished right now, he
: can choose to finish more later on, if their parents come to stay or they
: have a lot of kids la
|
D*r
发帖数: 1298 | 53 What was the ICF form you used? Did you also get that from China?
And what are NOT bought from China?
1. concrete
2. stucco
3. stone
4. wood
5. windows/doors
6. rebar
7. support tools (Jiao Shou Jia)
8. roof
9. bathroom items
10. kitchen items excluding appliance
11. interior decoration
12. pluming thingy
13. elec thingy
14. furnace
15. floor
most
compare
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: Yes, but only 3700 sq ft of inside is finished.
: Please also remember owner spend almost half a year working on it. And most
: of the stuff is bought from China factory direct (so very very cheap compare
: to US retail)
|
c********h
发帖数: 7827 | 54 。。。光finish的就3700乐，真是豪宅阿
most
compare
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: Yes, but only 3700 sq ft of inside is finished.
: Please also remember owner spend almost half a year working on it. And most
: of the stuff is bought from China factory direct (so very very cheap compare
: to US retail)
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 55
Depending on what you import, most of them are in the 5 to 15% range, but
remember the price is very cheap to begin with.
【在 D*r 的大作中提到】
: So cool! I will definitely build one, not buy one.
: Is it stucco? So with ICF, stucco is also ok for wet
: locations?
: Wow.
: btw, how much is the import duty to the US for most of the material?
:
: bought
: pump
: don't
: labor.
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 56 What was the ICF form you used? Did you also get that from China?
China made using BASF neopor
And what are NOT bought from China?
1. concrete
2. stucco
3. stone
4. wood
5. windows/doors
6. rebar
7. support tools (Jiao Shou Jia)
8. roof
9. bathroom items
10. kitchen items excluding appliance
11. interior decoration
12. pluming thingy
13. elec thingy
14. furnace
15. floor
Only (1) from your list is not bought from China from your list.
He did import all the thinset/cement/grout needed for the til |
D*r
发帖数: 1298 | 57 Thanks gezhi89, your answers are sooooo helpful!
I wish you were in Seattle so that you can be our GC.
All the things you described encouraged us in DIYing
an ICF house in foreseeable future. We will share the
process here once we start.
Some more questions: did you also use ICF as basement floor?
or did you use SIP? Did you pour concrete on plumbing and
electricity? I always wonder how can they be maintained
once the concrete is set. |
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 58
Yes, SIP is only used for garage floor because the span was to long for the
ICP floor system we are using. (The space below the garage is built to be
the safe room of the house)
Electricity and plumbing are not in the concrete, they are on the inside
foam part cut using hot wire knife/saw.
【在 D*r 的大作中提到】
: Thanks gezhi89, your answers are sooooo helpful!
: I wish you were in Seattle so that you can be our GC.
: All the things you described encouraged us in DIYing
: an ICF house in foreseeable future. We will share the
: process here once we start.
: Some more questions: did you also use ICF as basement floor?
: or did you use SIP? Did you pour concrete on plumbing and
: electricity? I always wonder how can they be maintained
: once the concrete is set.
|
