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o*********s
发帖数: 275 | 1 According to SCOTUS live blog, almost the entire Affordable Care Act is
upheld
! Individual mandate survives as a tax... Citizens United still stands as
the worst in a generation. Roberts is a closet liberal! | a**********m
发帖数: 2098 | 2 As I said, he's playing safe. I guess he's pretty certain that he's gonna de
al with the current president for another term.
as
【在 o*********s 的大作中提到】
: According to SCOTUS live blog, almost the entire Affordable Care Act is
: upheld
: ! Individual mandate survives as a tax... Citizens United still stands as
: the worst in a generation. Roberts is a closet liberal!
| L**P
发帖数: 3792 | 3 It is tax in essence all the time but the demo packaged it as so called
penalty so as to minimize potential challenge from republican. Tax is used
as republicans' buzz word to mobilize their base.
as
【在 o*********s 的大作中提到】
: According to SCOTUS live blog, almost the entire Affordable Care Act is
: upheld
: ! Individual mandate survives as a tax... Citizens United still stands as
: the worst in a generation. Roberts is a closet liberal!
| o*********s
发帖数: 275 | 4 It is a tax all along. But it is, most importantly, what the SCOTUS says it
is. Jurisprudence is indeed an elastic thing.
Funny part: Palin is jumping up and down and calling Obama a liar because he
said it was not a tax. She is acting as some little girl who was just
duped by two conspiring weird uncles (Obama and Roberts). | c**d
发帖数: 3888 | 5 Some people are celebrating for political reasons. We should all be weeping
for our future.
It's a tax when the government is taking your money for a public benefit.
It's another thing when the government is forcing you to buy something for
yourself for no other reason than it thinks it knows how to make your
choices for you.
It's a dangerous thing to blur the distinction between a tax and government
imposition of what should be individual choices. It's in our lazy human
nature to slowly give up our individual freedom and let the state dictate
our lives. It's a small surrender today, but the end result is we become
slaves to the state. This is the central theme in history by which
civilizations entered self-destruction.
it
he
【在 o*********s 的大作中提到】
: It is a tax all along. But it is, most importantly, what the SCOTUS says it
: is. Jurisprudence is indeed an elastic thing.
: Funny part: Palin is jumping up and down and calling Obama a liar because he
: said it was not a tax. She is acting as some little girl who was just
: duped by two conspiring weird uncles (Obama and Roberts).
| L**P
发帖数: 3792 | 6 My understanding is that the individual mandate is unconstitutional in the
context of the commerce clause. The court just moved one step further to say
it is constitutional in the context of tax and hold it.
Fair to say that the Gov should not force you buy something if you are not
going to use it. However, for those who do not buy insurance, aren't they
using "free" medical service?
By the way, I assume the penalty the Gov collects is going to fund those "
free" medical service, if true, the Gov is collecting money for a public
benefit. But who knows what they are going to do with the money.
weeping
government
【在 c**d 的大作中提到】
: Some people are celebrating for political reasons. We should all be weeping
: for our future.
: It's a tax when the government is taking your money for a public benefit.
: It's another thing when the government is forcing you to buy something for
: yourself for no other reason than it thinks it knows how to make your
: choices for you.
: It's a dangerous thing to blur the distinction between a tax and government
: imposition of what should be individual choices. It's in our lazy human
: nature to slowly give up our individual freedom and let the state dictate
: our lives. It's a small surrender today, but the end result is we become
| c**d
发帖数: 3888 | 7
I can see your line of logic, and it's convincing. I'm just having a hard
time with the tax argument.
If the government is asking you to buy something, whereas if you don't, the
government will assess a penalty which funds a program providing it to you "
for free," how is it not an outright imposition? How is it a tax??
If this is tax, then the government can force a million more things on us
and call it tax. This is why I called today's decision a dangerous start.
People who applaud the decision can only be doing so for political reasons,
i.e., it looks good for Obama's reelection. They cannot possibly believe it
is a good thing for society that the government starts forcing us to do
what we already had the freedom to do on our own in the first place.
【在 L**P 的大作中提到】
: My understanding is that the individual mandate is unconstitutional in the
: context of the commerce clause. The court just moved one step further to say
: it is constitutional in the context of tax and hold it.
: Fair to say that the Gov should not force you buy something if you are not
: going to use it. However, for those who do not buy insurance, aren't they
: using "free" medical service?
: By the way, I assume the penalty the Gov collects is going to fund those "
: free" medical service, if true, the Gov is collecting money for a public
: benefit. But who knows what they are going to do with the money.
:
| L**P
发帖数: 3792 | 8 1. Most people focus on the fact that the individual mandate is hold
consitiutional. However, we shall also notice that the court denied the Gov'
s assertion of overeaching power under the commerce clause. That is a win
for republican.
2. If the demo had the spine at the first place, they would use the true
name of the penalty, that is tax. But if so, they might not be able to pass
the law at the begining.
3. Penalty is relative. How about give insured people tax credit but deny
uninsured people the tax credit? Will you think about it differently?
4. Most people will have children in their life time. Is it OK for the Gov
to tax people without children more? is it Ok for the Gov to penalize people
without children? Is it OK for the Gov credit people with children? Does
this mean the Gov is forcing people to have children?
5. Most people will use health care in their life time. Is it OK for the Gov
to tax people without health insurance more? is it Ok for the Gov to
penalize people without health insurance? Is it OK for the Gov credit people
with health insurance? Does this mean the Gov is forcing people to buy
health insurance?
6. In the end, I think people should care more "affordable" health care, but
not if everyone is insured. The hight cost of health care is the real
problem.
the
"
,
it
【在 c**d 的大作中提到】
:
: I can see your line of logic, and it's convincing. I'm just having a hard
: time with the tax argument.
: If the government is asking you to buy something, whereas if you don't, the
: government will assess a penalty which funds a program providing it to you "
: for free," how is it not an outright imposition? How is it a tax??
: If this is tax, then the government can force a million more things on us
: and call it tax. This is why I called today's decision a dangerous start.
: People who applaud the decision can only be doing so for political reasons,
: i.e., it looks good for Obama's reelection. They cannot possibly believe it
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