O*****O
发帖数: 341 | 1 What do you normally do?
Is finding an internship a big issue? |
c**d
发帖数: 3888 | 2 If you can pull it off, work for a firm or clerk for a judge. If not, work
for the government or public interest (quite possibly for free) and get a
good reference. Or research for a professor. The possibilities are many, but
do something law-related.
Internships in the federal government are generally more competitive than
those in the state and local ones. |
O*****g
发帖数: 1257 | 3 I worked as a law clerk. It seemed to have helped me get my 2L SA job.
【在 O*****O 的大作中提到】
: What do you normally do?
: Is finding an internship a big issue?
|
O*****O
发帖数: 341 | 4 Fed gov normally requires citizenship, at least US Attorney's office does.
What about USDOJ, anyone has any idea how to get in with crappy grades? |
c**d
发帖数: 3888 | 5 If you don't have US citizenship, you can pretty much forget about working
for the federal government including the DOJ. |
a*******u
发帖数: 31 | 6 I don't have citizenship/green card and I got an externship with a circuit
judge. |
o****e
发帖数: 195 | 7 externship is free labor and does not put you on the federal payroll.
any fed job that pays requires citizenship, as required by the law. |
c**d
发帖数: 3888 | 8 The judiciary is usually not considered part of the government. I'm surprised someone with a circuit court clerkship is not clear on this distinction.
【在 a*******u 的大作中提到】
: I don't have citizenship/green card and I got an externship with a circuit
: judge.
|
a*******u
发帖数: 31 | 9 I thought you were talking about public interest work in general. As of
federal government, I don't know about DOJ, but I had a friend who worked in
HHS who had green card but was not a citizen. In fed government, there are
two types of jobs: contractor and federal employee. You generally don't need
citizenship to be a contractor, except national security related positions.
surprised someone with a circuit court clerkship is not clear on this
distinction.
【在 c**d 的大作中提到】
: The judiciary is usually not considered part of the government. I'm surprised someone with a circuit court clerkship is not clear on this distinction.
|
O*****O
发帖数: 341 | 10 During interview or internship, have you ever felt you were treated
differently as an "international student", given different type of
assignment, or evaluated under different criteria?
Do you feel you are less competitive than peer classmates? |
|
|
o****e
发帖数: 195 | 11 "Under an appropriations act restriction that is codified annually in a note
to 5 U.S.C. 3101, Congress has prohibited the use of appropriated funds to
pay federal employees whose post of duty is in the continental United States
unless they are United States citizens or meet one of several exceptions. "
One of such exceptions is that you can work for the Feds if you hold a 6.4 "
blood card."
See:
https://lawclerks.ao.uscourts.gov/employinfo.htm
and
5. U.S.C. 3101 |
l*********h
发帖数: 77 | 12
Yes. In fact I wanted to be treated differently and made sure my
interviewers knew my "international student" status. It only worked to my
advantage and added a lot to the conversation.
No, and no. Makes no sense for the employers to do this, or the
international student to expect this.
No. I feel just the opposite. To a prospective employer, I am probably a
more attractive candidate than those who don't speak another language. And
Chinese is a good language to know these days.
【在 O*****O 的大作中提到】
: During interview or internship, have you ever felt you were treated
: differently as an "international student", given different type of
: assignment, or evaluated under different criteria?
: Do you feel you are less competitive than peer classmates?
|
c****y
发帖数: 27 | 13 1. Of course they treat me differently during interview because I am a
Chinese international student who has spent only several years in the US.
But I do not think it hurt my chance at all. Instead, it helped a lot.
Foreign lawyers in the US are scarce now. For firms who have an
international interst, they are willing to hire some foreign lawyers from a
certain country, especially China. They risked little by extending a summer
internship anyway since they can simply reject my application f
【在 O*****O 的大作中提到】
: During interview or internship, have you ever felt you were treated
: differently as an "international student", given different type of
: assignment, or evaluated under different criteria?
: Do you feel you are less competitive than peer classmates?
|
O*****O
发帖数: 341 | 14 I've ever had an interview with a 9th circuit App Ct judge. She asked me a
tough question: you have been using English for a much shorter time than
native speakers, how can I believe you can write better than the others?
I provided her my writing sample and everything she asked for, but still I
had the bad feeling of being stereotyped by a judge.She had the presumption
that an international student can't be a sophisticated writer with good
legal reasoning, but put more attention on picking gramm
【在 l*********h 的大作中提到】
:
: Yes. In fact I wanted to be treated differently and made sure my
: interviewers knew my "international student" status. It only worked to my
: advantage and added a lot to the conversation.
: No, and no. Makes no sense for the employers to do this, or the
: international student to expect this.
: No. I feel just the opposite. To a prospective employer, I am probably a
: more attractive candidate than those who don't speak another language. And
: Chinese is a good language to know these days.
|
o****e
发帖数: 195 | 15
Legal writing is more than just writing sophisticated, impressive prose.
Effective, persuasive legal writing is often easy to understand, and often
directs the reader's attention to the reasoning behind the writing rather
than the language itself. Good legal writing is based on rigorous thinking
and bullet-proof reasoning. Such intellectual rigor cannot be learned in a
short period of time, and certainly is not limited to native English
speakers.
Good legal writers are good not only because
【在 O*****O 的大作中提到】
: I've ever had an interview with a 9th circuit App Ct judge. She asked me a
: tough question: you have been using English for a much shorter time than
: native speakers, how can I believe you can write better than the others?
: I provided her my writing sample and everything she asked for, but still I
: had the bad feeling of being stereotyped by a judge.She had the presumption
: that an international student can't be a sophisticated writer with good
: legal reasoning, but put more attention on picking gramm
|
O*****O
发帖数: 341 | 16 When someone wants to interview me, they are motivated by the curiosity
about my "very special background" and holding different expectations on my
qualification. How to meet their expectations imposes a challenge--I'd like
to learn more about the specific resolutions.
Thanks for their curiosity, I can get more interesting interviews than my
classmates. I tried not to leave them the impression that, an int'l student
is deemed to do int'l law, or an immigrant is deemed to practice immigration
or
【在 o****e 的大作中提到】
:
: Legal writing is more than just writing sophisticated, impressive prose.
: Effective, persuasive legal writing is often easy to understand, and often
: directs the reader's attention to the reasoning behind the writing rather
: than the language itself. Good legal writing is based on rigorous thinking
: and bullet-proof reasoning. Such intellectual rigor cannot be learned in a
: short period of time, and certainly is not limited to native English
: speakers.
: Good legal writers are good not only because
|
a*******u
发帖数: 31 | 17 Which 9th cir judge is this?
presumption
we
【在 O*****O 的大作中提到】
: I've ever had an interview with a 9th circuit App Ct judge. She asked me a
: tough question: you have been using English for a much shorter time than
: native speakers, how can I believe you can write better than the others?
: I provided her my writing sample and everything she asked for, but still I
: had the bad feeling of being stereotyped by a judge.She had the presumption
: that an international student can't be a sophisticated writer with good
: legal reasoning, but put more attention on picking gramm
|
i****y
发帖数: 5184 | 18 support!
Law is the best panel I've ever read on this bbs. Learned a lot here.
my
like
student
immigration
many
【在 O*****O 的大作中提到】
: When someone wants to interview me, they are motivated by the curiosity
: about my "very special background" and holding different expectations on my
: qualification. How to meet their expectations imposes a challenge--I'd like
: to learn more about the specific resolutions.
: Thanks for their curiosity, I can get more interesting interviews than my
: classmates. I tried not to leave them the impression that, an int'l student
: is deemed to do int'l law, or an immigrant is deemed to practice immigration
: or
|
l*********h
发帖数: 77 | 19 "I've ever had an interview with a 9th circuit App Ct judge..."
don't take this the wrong way, but it looks like she had good reasons to ask
the question. :)
Maybe you could have kindly pointed to her colleague, alex kozinski, and
reminded her that while it's fair to presume that non-native speakers don't
write as well as do native speakers (in English anyway), some do write remarkably
well, if given the chance to prove themselves.
"Personally I appeared to be modest and nice during interivews |
O*****O
发帖数: 341 | 20 Thanks. I do agree interviewers have legitimate reasons to ask questions and
I am supposed to be better prepared.
I once talked to some law review editors regarding how the law review
experience improves their chance of getting dream jobs.
So Littlenorth and those who are on law review, what do you think of the pros
and cons of being an editor, is it sth worth significant efforts to write on? |
|
|
l*********h
发帖数: 77 | 21 I really don't know whether being on a journal can help land a dream job.
My 2L summer gig certainly won't qualify as a "dream" job by any standard,
and I doubt whether being on a journal will matter much when the time comes
for me to pursue my dream job. It does help, but not a whole lot. Some of
my classmates who are not on any journal will be working at the so-called "
V5" firms this summer (if that's any indication of firm selectivity), and
some of my colleagues at the law review had no |
t******r
发帖数: 71 | 22 truly enlightening
thinking
a
their
【在 o****e 的大作中提到】
:
: Legal writing is more than just writing sophisticated, impressive prose.
: Effective, persuasive legal writing is often easy to understand, and often
: directs the reader's attention to the reasoning behind the writing rather
: than the language itself. Good legal writing is based on rigorous thinking
: and bullet-proof reasoning. Such intellectual rigor cannot be learned in a
: short period of time, and certainly is not limited to native English
: speakers.
: Good legal writers are good not only because
|
t******r
发帖数: 71 | 23
my
like
student
immigration
many
totally agree!
【在 O*****O 的大作中提到】
: When someone wants to interview me, they are motivated by the curiosity
: about my "very special background" and holding different expectations on my
: qualification. How to meet their expectations imposes a challenge--I'd like
: to learn more about the specific resolutions.
: Thanks for their curiosity, I can get more interesting interviews than my
: classmates. I tried not to leave them the impression that, an int'l student
: is deemed to do int'l law, or an immigrant is deemed to practice immigration
: or
|
t******r
发帖数: 71 | 24 LOL, you are really aboard
【在 i****y 的大作中提到】
: support!
: Law is the best panel I've ever read on this bbs. Learned a lot here.
:
: my
: like
: student
: immigration
: many
|
c**d
发帖数: 3888 | 25 You are very humble for your credentials.
standard,
【在 l*********h 的大作中提到】
: I really don't know whether being on a journal can help land a dream job.
: My 2L summer gig certainly won't qualify as a "dream" job by any standard,
: and I doubt whether being on a journal will matter much when the time comes
: for me to pursue my dream job. It does help, but not a whole lot. Some of
: my classmates who are not on any journal will be working at the so-called "
: V5" firms this summer (if that's any indication of firm selectivity), and
: some of my colleagues at the law review had no
|
O*****O
发帖数: 341 | 26 I certainly appreciate littlenorth and nemo's input and hope every Chinese
JD can give it a shot. I will take it as an one week assignment and do it on
my flight back home. Bluebook and note should be sth we can figure out
eventually. |
o****e
发帖数: 195 | 27 I agree with littlenorth regarding the (lack of) benefit of law review (not
to diminish his achievements).
It's quite simple: If one can't land a good job without law review, doing
law review will not change that. Law review is simply not one of the
deciding factors in the hiring process.
Doing law review is not the best way to improve writing skills either. A
lot of time is spent on bluebooking, which in my opinion is an overkill. In
comparison, moot court would be much more effective for |
O*****O
发帖数: 341 | 28 Otheme, tell me more about it.
So did you manage to do both, or how do you make that comparison?
Called US Trustee's Office, they do require citizenship for employee. But
for volunteer interns, theoratically citizenship is not necessary but since
that means huge cost on conducting comprehensive background check, they
basically gave it up and impose the same requirement on everyone.
not
In
【在 o****e 的大作中提到】
: I agree with littlenorth regarding the (lack of) benefit of law review (not
: to diminish his achievements).
: It's quite simple: If one can't land a good job without law review, doing
: law review will not change that. Law review is simply not one of the
: deciding factors in the hiring process.
: Doing law review is not the best way to improve writing skills either. A
: lot of time is spent on bluebooking, which in my opinion is an overkill. In
: comparison, moot court would be much more effective for
|
m**********n
发帖数: 71 | 29 Littlenorth, it's just so easy to google out the information about you based
on this post. Now I'v known your name and education. Even found the student
note that you just wrote. A really brilliant one I cannot understand. Hehe.
standard,
comes
of
"
).
【在 l*********h 的大作中提到】
: I really don't know whether being on a journal can help land a dream job.
: My 2L summer gig certainly won't qualify as a "dream" job by any standard,
: and I doubt whether being on a journal will matter much when the time comes
: for me to pursue my dream job. It does help, but not a whole lot. Some of
: my classmates who are not on any journal will be working at the so-called "
: V5" firms this summer (if that's any indication of firm selectivity), and
: some of my colleagues at the law review had no
|
c**d
发帖数: 3888 | 30 Let's not engage in a game of outing people. Even if I could identify
someone based on the information he or she posted, I'd keep it to myself
unless he or she has demonstrated a willingness to be identified. Just my 0.02.
I know a few people on this board that know who I am but have not outed me.
I appreciate their respect for my privacy.
based
student
Hehe.
【在 m**********n 的大作中提到】
: Littlenorth, it's just so easy to google out the information about you based
: on this post. Now I'v known your name and education. Even found the student
: note that you just wrote. A really brilliant one I cannot understand. Hehe.
:
: standard,
: comes
: of
: "
: ).
|
|
|
l*********h
发帖数: 77 | 31 hehe, didn't think at all about the possibility of being outted when i wrote
the post. thanks for the reminder and i will be more careful next time.
i realize i may have hijacked the thread -- going back to OP's original
question, I fully agree with czjd's original comment that either a firm job
or a judicial internship will be an excellent choice as a 1L summer job.
Working for big-name professors is another excellent option. Also, if you
are into litigation at all, don't forget to apply to |
O*****O
发帖数: 341 | 32 So what is your opinion about moot Ct? I didn't have the courage to run for
Jessup b/c of lack of confidence.
wrote
job
【在 l*********h 的大作中提到】
: hehe, didn't think at all about the possibility of being outted when i wrote
: the post. thanks for the reminder and i will be more careful next time.
: i realize i may have hijacked the thread -- going back to OP's original
: question, I fully agree with czjd's original comment that either a firm job
: or a judicial internship will be an excellent choice as a 1L summer job.
: Working for big-name professors is another excellent option. Also, if you
: are into litigation at all, don't forget to apply to
|
