d*******i
发帖数: 77 | 1 作为码工， 年轻人还是应该在小一点的公司或者著名点的IT公司工作或者financial
company。大公司的IT部门还是不要去了。
为了免费吃住和酒水，我做咨询两年多了，分别做过consulting company 的
consultant 也做过software product company的 pso。一年到头 不停的travel, 去过
10几家不同的fortune 500。
这些公司，资金雄厚雇的起每小时高到300刀的onshore consulting, 却又执着于想方
设法雇完全没有经验的印度offshore consulting 低到15刀。 我做过一些项目，呕心
沥血引进新技术新的想法， 所谓的“architect” 听完presentation, 一句offshore
team 不会理解来搪塞。
大量廉价的consulting 不仅把咨询这个词彻底搞臭， 还把自己公司搞得乌烟瘴气。大
部分这些公司IT部门， contractors 占到了一半或者一半以上。 不少公司 "人性" 管
理， full time 几乎很难被fire， 也很难被hire. 所以full time 很牛， 迟到早退
晒太阳不求上进。contractor 由于廉价， 很多地方100刀以下就可以招到很有经验的
人， 但hiring process 非常简单 也有很多的层的 sub contracting. 这些层层的公
司，都只在乎找到人赶紧收人头钱， 根本没有办法保证质量。
公司氛围很政治性。 往往谁呆得久，谁就是老大，说什么其他人就乱七八糟找个理由
跟风， 完全没有技术上的理性讨论。
这些公司往往还只从好的高校里招好的GPA毕业生。 年轻人来到这里我可以看到很痛苦
， 一些人慢慢能做10年以上熬日子， 不少人很快也就跳到节奏快的地方了。筛下的人
可想而知技术水平。 | c******1
发帖数: 435 | 2 和体制内风格很像啊。楼主赶紧熬到 full time的就解脱了。 | c*********r
发帖数: 2733 | 3 我自己就在这种500强公司的IT部门做contractor。感觉周围的氛围就是像LZ说的那样。 | a******g
发帖数: 13519 | 4 小公司干真的很刺激啊。我们公司前个月开始，走了一个大牛BA，接下来两个最牛的Sr
developer跳走了。一个混日子的DA跟老板的情妇吵架被炒了。现在，TMD，活全压在
我身上。我艹，我也要考虑要不要走了。其实，公司效益很好的。我怀疑是那个BA把那
两个大牛挖走的。 | c*********8
发帖数: 561 | 5 RE
"不少公司 "人性" 管理， full time 几乎很难被fire， 也很难被hire. 所以full
time 很牛， 迟到早退晒太阳不求上进。" | b*******3
发帖数: 109 | 6 哈哈, 俺就是那迟到早退嗮太阳的.
offshore
【在 d*******i 的大作中提到】
: 作为码工， 年轻人还是应该在小一点的公司或者著名点的IT公司工作或者financial
: company。大公司的IT部门还是不要去了。
: 为了免费吃住和酒水，我做咨询两年多了，分别做过consulting company 的
: consultant 也做过software product company的 pso。一年到头 不停的travel, 去过
: 10几家不同的fortune 500。
: 这些公司，资金雄厚雇的起每小时高到300刀的onshore consulting, 却又执着于想方
: 设法雇完全没有经验的印度offshore consulting 低到15刀。 我做过一些项目，呕心
: 沥血引进新技术新的想法， 所谓的“architect” 听完presentation, 一句offshore
: team 不会理解来搪塞。
: 大量廉价的consulting 不仅把咨询这个词彻底搞臭， 还把自己公司搞得乌烟瘴气。大
| w*****g
发帖数: 1415 | 7 我就在这样的公司IT部门工作，fulltime。新手，所以不敢混日子。
你要想想，要不是混日子的多，哪有那么多的consultants? | d*******i
发帖数: 77 | 8 My point is to say that young people should avoid this environment and
pursue better opportunities.
Not criticizing people who work so leisurely and prone to have a better life
balance.
Not arguing the rational reason why there are so many contractors in these
organizations.
By the way, I do not think most people in these kind of organization can be
called as "consultants". It is just contractors and a misleading concept of
consultants.
Like me, I do not do delivery. Just do coaching, proof of concepts, spike
presentation, architecting and answer questions, while I think it is about "
consulting".
【在 w*****g 的大作中提到】
: 我就在这样的公司IT部门工作，fulltime。新手，所以不敢混日子。
: 你要想想，要不是混日子的多，哪有那么多的consultants?
| e*****x
发帖数: 95 | 9 Ding!~
life
be
of
【在 d*******i 的大作中提到】
: My point is to say that young people should avoid this environment and
: pursue better opportunities.
: Not criticizing people who work so leisurely and prone to have a better life
: balance.
: Not arguing the rational reason why there are so many contractors in these
: organizations.
: By the way, I do not think most people in these kind of organization can be
: called as "consultants". It is just contractors and a misleading concept of
: consultants.
: Like me, I do not do delivery. Just do coaching, proof of concepts, spike
| n*****3
发帖数: 1584 | 10 as long as ppl get paid big $, like 100$+/hour
and extra time *1.5, who care deliver job or not?
when I was an intern years ago, the core system
was developed by some contractors/consultants. You
can not imiging how much they earn even back then. To
me they are just like a mini super guru team; of course
they can only be called contractor, because they
deliver something, something nobody else dare to
update.
BTW in the Enterprise IT , you think ppl need
advice/consultant or need help to have the job done?
life
be
of
【在 d*******i 的大作中提到】
: My point is to say that young people should avoid this environment and
: pursue better opportunities.
: Not criticizing people who work so leisurely and prone to have a better life
: balance.
: Not arguing the rational reason why there are so many contractors in these
: organizations.
: By the way, I do not think most people in these kind of organization can be
: called as "consultants". It is just contractors and a misleading concept of
: consultants.
: Like me, I do not do delivery. Just do coaching, proof of concepts, spike
| d*******i
发帖数: 77 | 11 Reply:
The first paragraph. You are talking about truth, but do not know what
are those related to my point.
Answer your question. Yes. Enterprise IT does need advice. As you said, "
nobody else dare to update". What if the customer found more and more
problems, or when others start using vitalization, continuous integration,
better database and better ERP system, they need advice to advance
technology and save cost in the long term.
You might say that you can hire those $100 independent contractors to do
delivery jobs for one year. But most big companies will do proof of concept
with vendors first, that project is what I called as "consulting", otherwise
those delivery budget will not be approved by board. The vendor will
provide their full time employees from PSO (Professional service
organization) team to do the POC work for a few weeks. The rate of cause
will not be just $100, it typically will be $250 - $400. if you know any PSO
people from big product companies like SAP, Oracle, VMware, Microsoft, you
can ask. Usually Big company will not hire PSO to do the delivery job, since
it is so expensive and not necessary, as long as support relationship is
built and direction is set.
By the way, even you see $250 - $400 are expensive, but product company will
not think PSO revenue is a critical portion for them, since compared the
revenue generated from license, it's nothing. So in another word those big
enterprise companies suck, they prefer spend big money on commercial
licenses to the open source stack, because they have no idea what they are
doing. This opinion may be so agressive :) Good thing is that no one can
avoid open source stack, but it is not because they "like to", just because
that they "have to".
【在 n*****3 的大作中提到】
: as long as ppl get paid big $, like 100$+/hour
: and extra time *1.5, who care deliver job or not?
: when I was an intern years ago, the core system
: was developed by some contractors/consultants. You
: can not imiging how much they earn even back then. To
: me they are just like a mini super guru team; of course
: they can only be called contractor, because they
: deliver something, something nobody else dare to
: update.
: BTW in the Enterprise IT , you think ppl need
| m*******n
发帖数: 9 | |
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