H******S
发帖数: 6011 | | b*****e
发帖数: 5133 | 2 HK 416的民用版不是MR 556吗？
HK 417的民用版才是MR 762吧。
【在 H******S 的大作中提到】
: http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/heckler-koch-hk-mr762a1/
| H******S
发帖数: 6011 | | H******S
发帖数: 6011 | 4 quoted from the HK website:
"Introduced in January 2012, the MR762A1’s Suggested Retail Price is $3,995" | h*********l
发帖数: 615 | 5 holy $3995
995"
【在 H******S 的大作中提到】
: quoted from the HK website:
: "Introduced in January 2012, the MR762A1’s Suggested Retail Price is $3,995"
| k**0
发帖数: 19737 | 6 我就等和谐版ACR了
【在 h*********l 的大作中提到】
: holy $3995
:
: 995"
| b*****e
发帖数: 5133 | 7 当初HK 416的upper 就可以不止四千刀。
【在 h*********l 的大作中提到】
: holy $3995
:
: 995"
| H******S
发帖数: 6011 | 8 军用fully automatic的情有可原,这民用一发一发打的就稍嫌有点过分.
【在 b*****e 的大作中提到】
: 当初HK 416的upper 就可以不止四千刀。
| b*****e
发帖数: 5133 | 9 不是啦。AR upper除了本来大家都可以买的automatic BCG没有自动半自动一说，那是
lower里的firing group的活。
HK416一直不卖给平民，但有人能搞到军警的416 upper在市场上倒卖，还真有人买。
【在 H******S 的大作中提到】
: 军用fully automatic的情有可原,这民用一发一发打的就稍嫌有点过分.
| h*********2
发帖数: 2508 | | | | b*****e
发帖数: 5133 | 11 便宜着买就不叫HK了，那是HP(HiPoint)啊，哈哈。
【在 h*********2 的大作中提到】
: 为啥这么贵，是进口税？
| d*****h
发帖数: 1266 | 12 知道，HK也是大户货，跟那耳机一样。 :-)
【在 b*****e 的大作中提到】
: 便宜着买就不叫HK了，那是HP(HiPoint)啊，哈哈。
| b*****e
发帖数: 5133 | 13 根本不能和稍微像样点的1911比价:)
停产的P7不算，贵到头的那Mk23现在才多少钱，HK的手枪价格也就欺负一下其它塑料枪
而已。
【在 d*****h 的大作中提到】
: 知道，HK也是大户货，跟那耳机一样。 :-)
| T*R
发帖数: 25894 | 14 钱多，人傻，速来。
【在 b*****e 的大作中提到】
: 不是啦。AR upper除了本来大家都可以买的automatic BCG没有自动半自动一说，那是
: lower里的firing group的活。
: HK416一直不卖给平民，但有人能搞到军警的416 upper在市场上倒卖，还真有人买。
| H******S
发帖数: 6011 | 15 我们就是被欺负到底层的塑料枪. :D :D :D
【在 b*****e 的大作中提到】
: 根本不能和稍微像样点的1911比价:)
: 停产的P7不算，贵到头的那Mk23现在才多少钱，HK的手枪价格也就欺负一下其它塑料枪
: 而已。
| h*********2
发帖数: 2508 | 16 可以定义是高端实用主义吧 =D
【在 b*****e 的大作中提到】
: 根本不能和稍微像样点的1911比价:)
: 停产的P7不算，贵到头的那Mk23现在才多少钱，HK的手枪价格也就欺负一下其它塑料枪
: 而已。
| S**********s
发帖数: 4534 | 17 比SCAR 17S重两磅， 还贵1000多。 慢走不送。
P.S: 附上一篇老段子
http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/2007/10/09/hk-because-you-suc
"An open letter to the gun community from HK’s marketing department: In a
world of compromises, some people put the bullets in the magazine backwards
…But it doesn’t matter, because our gun is on the cover of the Rainbow Six
video games. Look how cool that SEAL coming out of the water looks… If you
buy a $2,000 SOCOM, you will be that cool of an operator too. And chicks
will dig you.
At HK, we stuck a piston on an AR15, just like a bunch of other companies
have done, dating back to about 1969. However ours is better, because we
refuse to sell it to civilians. Because you suck, and we hate you.
Our XM8 is the greatest rifle ever developed. It may melt, and it doesn’t
fit any accessories known to man, but that is your fault. If you were a real
operator, you would love it. Once again, look at Rainbow Six, that G36 sure
is cool isn’t it? Yeah, you know you want one.And by the way, check out
our new HK45. We decided that humans don’t need to release the magazine
with their thumbs. If you were a really manly teutonic operator, you would
be able to reach the controls. Plus we’ve fired 100,000,000 rounds through
one with zero malfunctions, and that was while it was buried in a lake of
molten lava, on the moon. If you don’t believe us, it is because you aren’
t a real operator.
By the way, our cheap, mass-produced, stamped sheet metal guns like the G3
and MP5 are the bestest things ever, and totally worth asinine scalpers
prices, but note that cheap, mass-produced, stamped sheet metal guns from
other countries are commie garbage. Not that it matters, because you’re
civilians, so we won’t sell them to you anyway. Because you suck, and we
hate you, but we know you’ll be back. We can beat you down like a trailer
park wife, but you’ll come back, you always do.
Buy our stuff.
Sincerely
HK Marketing DepartmentHK. Because you suck. And we hate you.
I don’t know if you can tell, but I’m not the biggest fan of H und K. I
posted that letter on THR a long time ago as a joke, but it sure did manage
to tick a lot of people off. Ironically, the tag line, HK. Because you
suck. And we hate you, has been popping up in various places ever since.
Sure, they’re decently reliable, decently accurate guns, but they’re
massively overpriced and overrated by legions of fan boys. One of the most
frustrating things about dealing with gun people on the interweb is that
folks tend to pick a brand, and then base some of their self-esteem on that
brand. Kind of like rabid sports fans who feel the need to burn cars if
their team wins, or loses, or they just felt like burning stuff. Say
something negative about that team to one of those rabid fans, and you’re
probably going to get beat up. Likewise, if you say anything negative about
the Teutonic superiority of HK, people get mad at you.
Well, I love hate mail, so here goes.
For each of their wunder guns, you can get something else that costs a lot
less, and works better, and has ergonomics designed by people that actually
shoot. HK came about when some Nazis fled to Spain and built the Cetme.
But Cetme doesn’t sound very tough, does it? So they went back to Germany
and became H and K, and if you call it H and K, fan boys will get mad, and
insist that it is HK, because manly Teutonic operators and Navy SEALs don’t
have time to say the word And. So HK rose to prominence by building the G3
, which is what the Germans call the Cetme.
Now the G3 is a decent rifle. It is a cheap, stamped sheet metal, battle
rifle. It has terrible ergonomics, with a hard to use safety, (and this is
coming from a guy with gorilla hands), and difficult to use charging handle.
It is reliable, because of the roller locking bolt that destroys your
brass, and recoils worse than other competing .308 rifles. The FAL smokes
the G3, and the only reason the G3 exists is because the Germans were too
proud to pay royalties to those uppity Belgians.
The G3 can be really accurate, if you weld a bunch of metal to the sides of
it, stick on a nice barrel, and jack the price up $10,000. And no, that’s
not a typo. The PSG1 is absurdly priced, and the cheaper version, the MSG90
is proof that if make anything absurdly heavy enough, it can be accurate.
There is a collapsible stock available, which is awesome, if you like
getting hit in the face with a piece of rebar, which is what their $400
stock feels like when you shoot it. Germans must be tougher than we are or
something.
Other stamped, sheet metal guns exist, but HK fan boys mock those as commie
garbage. See, if you build a cheap gun, but it is from Germany, then it is
superior, but if you build a stamped gun in the eastern block (a hundred
miles from Germany) then it is commie garbage.
But what brought HK to international fame and the cover of Dick Marcinko
books (for example, Rogue Force Delta Green Team 7 Ninja Force Alpha II:
The beginning) was the G3s little brother, the MP5. Take a G3, shrink it,
and chamber it in 9mm. At the time, CQB doctrine was to use 9mm subguns.
Now the MP5 is a neat little gun. I have two. They work well, and if
compared to the other subguns of the day, like the Uzi or the Mac, then the
MP5 was a lot easier to use, easier to hit with, and was decently reliable.
The MP5 became famous when the SAS used them to kick the living hell out of
some bad guys at the Iranian embassy. This was marketing gold, and HK rode
the wave. Pretty soon everybody wanted an MP5. It was what all the cool
kids were using. Soon every video game and action movie was filled with HK
stuff. HK may have overrated guns, but they’ve got the best marketing
department in the gun business, and they milked that fee cow until it was
dry.
But the MP5 isn’t as great as people make them out to be. They still
malfunction. (if you’re favorite gun hasn’t malfed, you haven’t shot it
enough). The mags are hard to insert on a closed bolt. Safety still sucks.
Most versions don’t have a bolt hold open. Honestly, if I had to get
into a gunfight with a subgun, then I would rather have my PPsH.
HK long guns were mostly unobtainable to US civilians, primarily because HK
hates the civilian market. If you don’t believe me, go talk to them at
SHOT show, and watch them sneer at regular people. They can’t help
themselves. But like all unobtainable things, like Ferraris, and super
models, regular folks start to imagine these unobtainable things as
perfection, when really they’re just an expensive car that spends most of
its time in the shop, or a chick with mental problems and Bulimia. That’s
what happened with HK. Their products took on this aura of coolness amongst
the fans, that just isn’t real.
For example, go to any thread on the internet where somebody brings up “
What is the Best Rifle EVAR!” and there is a poll. On the poll will be
some HK long guns that 99.85% of the gun owning public has never seen, let
alone shot, but those guns will have the most votes, because the HK
marketing department told you how awesome they are.
Read up about the XM8 on most gun boards. According to the interweb, the
XM8 is the finest combat implement of all time. In actuality it is a
plastic AR18, that tends to melt, break, and is universally loathed by the
Army staff that had to test it. It takes bizarre attachments, so no US
accessories will work. They took the G36, which is basically a blah rifle,
used by a handful of countries that don’t ever actually shoot people, and
uglied it up so that it looks like the demented lovechild of Bloaty the
Pizza Hog and a Super-Soaker.
Or the HK416. According to the internet, the HK416 is the best gun EVER! It
is called THE AWESOME. Lightning bolts of coolness fly from the gun and
smite your enemies with Teutonic fury! However you can’t have one, because
you’re a civilian, ergo, you suck. And HK hates you.
The 416 is basically an AR with a gas piston, which has been done by like
ten companies now, but somehow the HK is better, because it was on Future
Weapons, and HK won’t sell it to civilians. In fact, a couple of 416s
slipped out into civilian hands, and HK freaked out about it. There is no
legal reason that 416 uppers can’t be sold, but HK despises regular people,
and the idea of you having their long guns offends them.
You can get civilian HK long guns, once in a while, when HK feels like it,
but they’re usually hyper-neutered and over priced. Hell, the last ones
were actually grey, because you know, black is too dangerous, or something.
HK’s new subgun is the UMP. They tend to break. One of our local PDs
traded all of theirs in after they broke all the stocks. Cool idea, because
everybody loves .45, but bad execution.
HK’s flagship pistols, the USP line, are decent polymer handguns. They are
extremely reliable, that is the plus side. On the down side, their
triggers universally suck, but they don’t have to. HK likes to use a
square peg in a round hole, (literally) that makes the trigger pull a lot
heavier and grittier than it needs to be. Why? Beats the heck out of me.
The USP series should be reliable, they’re enormous.
The most annoying thing about the HK pistols is how they cost almost twice
as much as every other polymer handgun on the market. Somehow being made in
Germany means the USP series is worth $800-$1000, when all of the polymer
guns made within a thousand miles are $400-$600. Only most of those guns
tend to have better triggers, are just as reliable, and are usually more
accurate.
Then there is the Mk23. Which is huge, accurate, reliable, (which it damn
well better be, since it is the size and weight of a Mini-14) costs as much
as a used car, huge, and is universally despised by the SF that it is issued
to. Talk to anyone that is in an SF unit. The Mk23s they’ve been issued
sit unused in arms room. Did I mention that it is HUGE? But that’s okay,
because the HK fan boys will explain that it is an OFFENSIVE handgun. (
scratches head) whatever the hell that is supposed to mean.
They are reliable, but so is a $125 Makarov. Only the Mak has a better
trigger.
I have two guys that I work with that have been to the HK armorer’s school.
If you think I’m biased, you should talk to them. They especially love
working with the Germans. One fellow was yelled at because he had two
magazines clamped together on his MP5, because “NEIN! That is not the H
und K way!” Even though he had bought the mag clamp from HK. When you ask
why the original MP5 doesn’t have a last shot bolt hold open, they’ll
yell at you and say, “NEIN! Why would you want your enemy to know your gun
is empty!” Hell, Hans, I just want to know when my gun is empty!
One friend of mine took his personal MP5, and cut an extra notch into the
collapsible stock, so it would be shorter for when he was wearing his armor,
and also it removed the nasty wobble that all HK collapsible stocks have.
It is an easy fix, and a no-brainer that the HK should have been doing for
years. Fritz at the armorer’s school damn near had an aneurism when he saw
this blasphemy against his ineffectual German gods.
Look, gun owning public, just because you saw it on Future Weapons, or read
about it on the internet, doesn’t make it true. For the love of John Moses
Browning, before you formulate super strong opinions about a weapon, you
should have at least shot the damn thing first.
Do I have anything positive to say about HK? Yes, the sneer of disdain
they give you at SHOT is priceless and entertaining." | a***a
发帖数: 8941 | 18 我也特别不爽HK417太重。
还有那个ACR也tmd太重。
只有SCAR的重量让人心动。 | f********t
发帖数: 4574 | 19 这段是不是再说HK hates you呀？既然能干出圆孔里用方销钉的事情。。。
USP的枪管轴线高度是我玩过的半自动手枪里最高的，比1911还要高出一截。谁来说说
HK塑料枪为啥比别的塑料枪贵一倍？
are
extremely reliable, that is the plus side. On the down side, their
triggers universally suck, but they don’t have to. HK likes to use a
square peg in a round hole, (literally) that makes the trigger pull a lot
heavier and grittier than it needs to be. Why? Beats the heck out of me.
The USP series should be reliable, they’re enormous.
The most annoying thing about the HK pistols is how they cost almost twice
as much as every other polymer handgun on the market. Somehow being made in
Germany means the USP series is worth $800-$1000, when all of the polymer
guns made within a thousand miles are $400-$600. Only most of those guns
tend to have better triggers, are just as reliable, and are usually more
accurate.
【在 S**********s 的大作中提到】
: 比SCAR 17S重两磅， 还贵1000多。 慢走不送。
: P.S: 附上一篇老段子
: http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/2007/10/09/hk-because-you-suc
: "An open letter to the gun community from HK’s marketing department: In a
: world of compromises, some people put the bullets in the magazine backwards
: …But it doesn’t matter, because our gun is on the cover of the Rainbow Six
: video games. Look how cool that SEAL coming out of the water looks… If you
: buy a $2,000 SOCOM, you will be that cool of an operator too. And chicks
: will dig you.
: At HK, we stuck a piston on an AR15, just like a bunch of other companies
| q**u
发帖数: 12289 | 20 "...some people put the bullets in the magazine backwards"
Hahaha, I remember this.
backwards
Six
you
【在 S**********s 的大作中提到】
: 比SCAR 17S重两磅， 还贵1000多。 慢走不送。
: P.S: 附上一篇老段子
: http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/2007/10/09/hk-because-you-suc
: "An open letter to the gun community from HK’s marketing department: In a
: world of compromises, some people put the bullets in the magazine backwards
: …But it doesn’t matter, because our gun is on the cover of the Rainbow Six
: video games. Look how cool that SEAL coming out of the water looks… If you
: buy a $2,000 SOCOM, you will be that cool of an operator too. And chicks
: will dig you.
: At HK, we stuck a piston on an AR15, just like a bunch of other companies
| | | k*******n
发帖数: 5546 | 21
是吗？我怎么记得P220的管轴比USP高呢？也可能是我打得时候没注意，记错了。
价格HK是太贵了，Riflegear现在促销的USP都在749－799之间，关键是弹夹和配件太贵
了。玩不起。
回到楼主的主题，得多大的冤大头花3995买这个啊？
【在 f********t 的大作中提到】
: 这段是不是再说HK hates you呀？既然能干出圆孔里用方销钉的事情。。。
: USP的枪管轴线高度是我玩过的半自动手枪里最高的，比1911还要高出一截。谁来说说
: HK塑料枪为啥比别的塑料枪贵一倍？
:
: are
: extremely reliable, that is the plus side. On the down side, their
: triggers universally suck, but they don’t have to. HK likes to use a
: square peg in a round hole, (literally) that makes the trigger pull a lot
: heavier and grittier than it needs to be. Why? Beats the heck out of me.
: The USP series should be reliable, they’re enormous.
| S**********s
发帖数: 4534 | 22 HK对待民用市场的态度很讨厌， 就好像屁民的钱不是钱似的。 USP设计有独到的地方
， 质量也不错， 不改零件直接打+P弹， 但价格绝对是把HK自己的广告费什么的都算
进去了再加上以German engineering自命不凡...HK416/417就是这个例子， 一个upper
卖的敢比SCAR整个枪都贵。
【在 f********t 的大作中提到】
: 这段是不是再说HK hates you呀？既然能干出圆孔里用方销钉的事情。。。
: USP的枪管轴线高度是我玩过的半自动手枪里最高的，比1911还要高出一截。谁来说说
: HK塑料枪为啥比别的塑料枪贵一倍？
:
: are
: extremely reliable, that is the plus side. On the down side, their
: triggers universally suck, but they don’t have to. HK likes to use a
: square peg in a round hole, (literally) that makes the trigger pull a lot
: heavier and grittier than it needs to be. Why? Beats the heck out of me.
: The USP series should be reliable, they’re enormous.
| C*******d
发帖数: 15836 | 23 我估计它主打军用市场。如果民用版本太便宜了，军版的价钱就不敢太狠要了。
upper
【在 S**********s 的大作中提到】
: HK对待民用市场的态度很讨厌， 就好像屁民的钱不是钱似的。 USP设计有独到的地方
: ， 质量也不错， 不改零件直接打+P弹， 但价格绝对是把HK自己的广告费什么的都算
: 进去了再加上以German engineering自命不凡...HK416/417就是这个例子， 一个upper
: 卖的敢比SCAR整个枪都贵。
|
|
