l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 1 By Lee DeCovnick
The hard progressive left in America has been unleashed into the streets by
the community organizer in the White House. The current crop of street
pawns, the banal cattle of Occupy Wall Street movement, are fed, herded, and
coldly led by the professional agitators from ACORN, SEIU, and the
Communist Party of America. These hardcore Alinskyites are well-funded and
well-organized. Through a series of set-piece street actions and media
events coordinated with the White House, th... 阅读全帖 |
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l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 2 Déjà Vu Pension Woes
Going into debt to fund pensions seems like a ridiculous thing to do,
especially for a company had a chance to shed more of those pension
obligations in bankruptcy.
Please consider the Wall Street Journal story GM Wants to Up Credit Line
General Motors Co. is in preliminary talks with banks to potentially
double its $5 billion line of credit as the auto maker looks to strengthen
its balance sheet and shrink pension obligations, according to people with
knowledge of the d... 阅读全帖 |
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c*****r
发帖数: 8227 | 3 不要偷换概念好不好？
本人对Private Sector Union的兴衰不持任何预设立场。UAW厉害吧？曾几何时，是如
何的
呼风唤雨，不顾一切给自己捞好处。最后把底特律搞趴下了，终于懂得皮之不存，毛将
焉附的道理，现在，乖多了吧？
但是，对于Public Sector Unions,本人深恶痛绝！Wisconsin的形势发展，其实多少也
代表了民意，大势所趋，是限制Public Sector Unions泛滥的时候了。
pressure |
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Q****r
发帖数: 7340 | 4 自己查UAW是什么。
delphi工会什么时候建立的？什么时候开始亏损的？为啥以前没亏损？没有工会，你觉
得是资本家高兴呢，还是工人高兴？工程师自己没有工会所以也看不得别人有工会？
★ Sent from iPhone App: iReader Mitbbs Lite 7.56 |
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m*****e
发帖数: 789 | 5 The problem for these car makers are pension, which they promised during
booming time. None of their management saw the problem down the road. 5
years ago, they realized they were in financial trouble, then started to
break their promise and put the blame on the worker union. |
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l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 6 双方都有问题． 但主要问题在ｕｎｉｏｎ．他们比较贪得无厌． 当初management因
为公司还赚钱,所以就让步了,但后来公司情况不好了,就不能让步了.但union已经惯坏
了. |
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y****t
发帖数: 10233 | 7 None of their management saw the problem down the road?
you are kidding me right.
lol... |
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C*E
发帖数: 785 | 8 都在这说20块啊90块啊, 谁能上传个/发布个可靠信息源啊? |
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l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 10 这个GM破产的时候,网上已经有GM的工资和Toyota的工资的比较. 具体数字记不得了,但
这个27-28应该不止的. |
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d***p
发帖数: 937 | 11 每小时工资大约28美元。现在新员工14~17。
70几块钱的是GM为了把失败的责任推倒工会身上自己撺出来的每小时Labor Cost。
就是把所有的人头费用，包括医疗，Paid Vacation和Holiday，目前退休人员的退休金
和医疗费用，往Pension Fund里填的钱，等等加在一起的总费用，再除以目前工人实际
的工作小时数得出来的。即使这样，也招来好多质疑。
那个90多的数字纯粹是某ID胡编出来的。 |
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c******i
发帖数: 4091 | 12 你的credit还不如屎地粪坑呢，还没有屎地粪坑的娱乐性，赶紧先吃点通稿补补脑子吧
，呵呵 |
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d***p
发帖数: 937 | 14 你不就是以前的地下五毛党Piaoke吗。
现在又假装Conservative，污言秽语破坏Conservative的名声。 |
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c******i
发帖数: 4091 | 15 你这傻婢后清小黄门海外质子小喇叭现在一仆二主抱民主党粗腿，大政府的通稿给你喂
肥了没有？
你的骈头走地鸡看样子比你混得好，你也赶紧去DC按摩院当个临时公吧，说不准哪天有
民主党贵人能提拔你当个米国党棍。
呵呵 |
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l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 16 你讲的是base pay吧.不包括其他福利的. 看了下网上说的, average base pay 就是28
刀一个小时. |
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Q****r
发帖数: 7340 | 17 80年代，8万一年
你有概念么？
那个工人在Milford上班，别跟我扯什么detroit city。十几万？MI房价跌的最低时候
还差不多，west bloomingfield的富人区，过去从来没有低于50万的房子，现在有跌倒
20万。十几万连修4000尺房子的钱都不够
跟谁比只多一天？12月底，不放2周了？你看过哪些公司圣诞放两周？有多少公司放了
复活节?
GM破产前是如此，正是因为这么高的福利，加上罢工，GM无法和toyota竞争。人家
toyota直接把工厂建在南部的州，就是为了躲避UAW
我们谈的是工会如何把公司破产的，不是谈破产后的福利。
放音乐的算不上组装线上的工人，Milford也没有组装线。但确实是组装车，组装出来
测试用的。
我说三大engineer懒洋洋的是大部分，没什么错，少量的非常勤奋。三大工作过的都知
道，三大工作轻松。同样说过这个话的还有ford, chrysler的朋友。大家朔委婉点就说
是，很轻松。
老子salary的employee。
10
Salary |
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d***p
发帖数: 937 | 18 UAW员工住west bloomfield? 你还说你不造谣？
工人们没有401K。到可以拿SS时就相应减少。engineer 有401k的就没有pension.
话说回来， 你不抱怨把公司搞得论起乱七八糟还拿几千万的CEO们，不怪剥削你的
contact house, 却眼红工人那点假期。
在你眼里，他们就该象中国的打工仔们拿着微薄地工资，为了多挣点拼死拼活加班。
你Contract 员工没有这些福利怨不得别人。 |
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Q****r
发帖数: 7340 | 19 我说UAW的员工住west bloomingfield么？你眼睛瞎了
我说west bloomingfield的房子过去50万都买不了，现在20万都有。说明MI房价跌的利
害。工人4000尺的房子，你说只有10多万，我就告诉你，现在10多万有可能，房子腰斩
了一半多，原来也是有
30万的。
老子不是contract，老子跟着放了假，出了MI才发现，没有一家公司这么放假。你连着
嗲你都不承认？三大的公假很多？
算了老子懒得跟你说，你也就是没工作吃福利的，嫉妒中产，盼望中产缴税的，所以你
才会把你自己的想法强加给我，说我是contract。
话说回来，老子要是contract就好了，原来三大给contract engineer是100块一个小时
。老子同事就是两口子，一个正式一个contract，日子过得好得很。 |
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c****t
发帖数: 424 | 20 uaw 比中国打工仔强在哪儿了？ 为什么不能拼死拼活干？ |
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t******o
发帖数: 6493 | 21 Re. 这才是正常benefit嘛。
眼红UAW的真是没见过市面的 |
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a*********a
发帖数: 3656 | 22 TARP was a good program. Proposed by a republic president, passed with
bipartisan supports.
Bill Clinton said on your favorate Daily Show: "tax payers made money in
TARP, you made money in TAPR".
Well that was only true if you exclude the part hijacked by Obama to buy off
UAW. You could say Clinton lied, but I think he was just mis-informed by
Obama. |
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w******g
发帖数: 2047 | 24 i think all the US car companies will still survive without the bailout,
maybe in differrent names,maybe even stronger than they are now, at least
they can get rid of the UAW union crap |
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a*********a
发帖数: 3656 | 25 unions can contribute equally as corporations to candidates and superpacts.
in addition, unions do not shy away from telling their members how to vote.
just go lookat uaw.org : "solidarity Obama". and http://www.utla.net/ (united teachers LA) : "Yes on 30, No on 32". These are on the front page of these union websites.
public unions have the additional tool like strikes to influnce govt
administration decisions. And they vote for govt officials who they then
collectively bargain with.
So if corp... 阅读全帖 |
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d*******p
发帖数: 2525 | 26 如果不bail out,那么UAW根本就没有任何ground去继续fight for their greedy
pension/benefit了，也就是说破产后整合出来的新公司不会像现在一样仍然被union
worker的fat pay给束缚住了。 |
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d*******p
发帖数: 2525 | 27 如果不bail out,那么UAW根本就没有任何ground去继续fight for their greedy
pension/benefit了，也就是说破产后整合出来的新公司不会像现在一样仍然被union
worker的fat pay给束缚住了。 |
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d*******p
发帖数: 2525 | 28 UAW的pension本来就不可能是sustainable的，纯粹greedy堆积出来的自杀性行为
union had served its purpose, but now it's the time to let union go. |
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a*********a
发帖数: 3656 | 29 I m against union, for right to work. if you don't like union either then
you won't like the auto detail if you learn more details. UAW was one big
winner in the auto bail out.
I m for cutting entitlement. I support what Romney proposed, if you are rich
, then you should not get the same amount of SS or medicare. Obama does not
have a clear plan for entitlement reform except lowering the reimbursement
rate to medicare doctors. Some doctors already stopped taking medicare.
I m also for cutting de... 阅读全帖 |
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m******O
发帖数: 596 | 30 无法融资这个问题非常好办 - 政府手里有钱啊。所以正常的办法是你先破产摆脱掉不
良资产包括Union，然后政府给你注资。
而这个政府出钱硬撑住不让破产，就是为了保住UAW而进行的政治收买。 |
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l**t
发帖数: 6971 | 31
这版上的人，真是什么都不懂，什么都敢说。
GM没有破产吗？Chrysler没有破产吗？全都破产了啊！所谓政府bail out，就是政府出
钱参与chapter 11破产重组。UAW的pension也减了，工资也减了，福利也减了，对老员
工买断工龄，整个就是跟朱镕基学的。
还三大不如一个Amazon值钱。。。像你这种人要是炒股，非亏死不可。你按market cap
算买一个公司的成本？连什么是enterprise value都不知道？知道三大欠了多少债务吗？
Ford不需要bail out，但是GM和Chrysler的CEO去国会作证要求bail out的时候，Ford
的CEO是一块儿去作证的，是去要求国会bail out他的两家竞争对手的。为什么？难道
他傻啊？出卖股东啊？GM/Chrysler一旦倒闭，一大群suppliers都要跟着倒闭，Ford也
没法生产了，也得跟着倒闭。外国在美国的汽车公司用的是独立的供应链，倒是不受影
响。我看你不是日本人，就是韩国人。
在当时的条件下，如果没有一个政府这样的强有力的backer来支持chapter 11重组，甚
至你让他file cha... 阅读全帖 |
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a*********a
发帖数: 3656 | 32 I was trying to make a point that bail out and bail out are different.
To answer the PE point, a PE or a consortium of investors with SHORT TERM
govt assistant could have participated in GM chap 11.
And if the law was respected, GM could have restructured pension much more
aggressively in Chap 11, cut labor cost significantly, cut 10% head count
and 10% wage is not unheard of and cuts the cost by 20% instantly. (Less
liability and lower cost)
Existing bond holders could have been persuaded to be... 阅读全帖 |
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d***p
发帖数: 937 | 33 其实第一笔政府援助是小布什批准的。Obama是又增加了。
这说明当时不管是共和党政府还是民主党政府以及他们的智囊团都认为，三大不能倒，
必须挺住。小布什可是非常恨UAW的。 |
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d*********2
发帖数: 48111 | 34 当然是underpaid, 但是因为竞争的存在， 最后经济上就会balance到劳工经济上能争
取到的最大利益。
这个世界没什么平等。
美国劳工再追求full paid interest, 再追求平等， 那就真的一个工作都剩不下了。
UAW就是前车之鉴。
每个系统都有其内部自我的平衡之道
take |
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l********7
发帖数: 1077 | 35 将来还是有可能的
不是所有美国行业都向UAW那样
据我所知
美国建筑业有高达40%的非法劳工
工资也不是太高
中国普通建筑工人的工资现在每月500-1000美元
比21世纪初增长了10倍，如果这个速度增长下去
工资会接近美国的 |
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y*****n
发帖数: 11251 | 36 This is an example how media lies about truth in history, from Washington
Post,
"the United Auto Workers. Founded in 1935, the union organized auto workers,
winning wages and benefits that transformed assembly-line work into solid
middle-class jobs."
The truth from Wikipedia,
(Henry) Ford astonished the world in 1914 by offering a $5 per day wage ($
120 today), which more than doubled the rate of most of his workers.
Henry Ford was not the founder of UAW. Instead, he "thought they were too
heavi... 阅读全帖 |
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t**********3
发帖数: 12623 | 37 RTW brings competition to workforce market and it drives up average wage by
increasing efficiency.
Do some homework on UAW union workers vs. Toyota, Honda, Subaru, BMW non-
union workers.
You little libtard can also learn some ECON 101. |
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l******a
发帖数: 3803 | 38
丘吉尔二战后就被英国人选下去了。一点怜悯都灭有。
那个位置的要求变了，根本不是给不适合的人的-无论
多么劳苦功高。
工会多少年前的确做出了贡献。但那以后，就吃老本，
拖死宿主，搞垮了多少美国企业-企业毕竟要盈利。
这倒好，纳税人的税率是可以涨的，就吃到撑死。而且
根本不顾宿主的健康，只管自己海塞。工会的领导阶层，
就如同票蛆党的高层，享尽荣华富贵，早已脱离了它们代表的
工人阶层，彻底成为人渣。
另外，美国的business-friendly的州，前十个有9个
是RTW州。美国工人也不是傻逼，UAW好几年想撬开南方
州，尤其外国汽车厂的大门，结果被工人（yes, workers)
给菊爆回来了。凭什么北方的工人没有选择的权利？？ |
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E*******n
发帖数: 29 | 39 Alabama is a good place to build a factory. Wish they will learn from Toyota
and BMW that also have some factories in Alabama. Union is not an issue in
many of the southern states. UAW has tried many times to unionize auto
factory workers in some southern states. All drivings have failed so far.
They normally have right to work laws. |
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r****p
发帖数: 480 | 40 这篇你怎么不看？
http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/13/news/companies/ford-truck-mexic
"We're actively pursuing other alternatives for the Wayne plant that will be
discussed with our UAW friends. We haven't decided what will go there,"
said Ford spokeswoman Kristina Adamski.
Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump recently said that if he's
elected he would take steps to make it more expensive for manufacturers to
shift work to Mexico and then export the items back to the United States.
"How does that ... 阅读全帖 |
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h******n
发帖数: 3599 | 41 UAW 这种东西， 其实有利有弊， 也不是完全一无是处， |
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c*******o
发帖数: 8869 | 42 【 以下文字转载自 Military 讨论区 】
发信人: THR (???), 信区: Military
标 题: 我越来越左了
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Fri Feb 19 11:32:31 2016, 美东)
现在最盼望的就是美国医院完全国有化，这样俺也能混进FEDERAL EMPLOYEE的队伍里。
或者至少来个全国性的护士工会，象UAW那样，以后LAYOFF论资排辈来。现在加州护士
都有工会罩着，爽得很。
加点税我反倒不在乎了。岁数大了，对多一点少一点钱不那么敏感，但是越来越担心工
作的稳定性。 |
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f********8
发帖数: 5601 | 44 居然工会UAW还在捐？？Sanders要气死了。 |
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a***r
发帖数: 594 | 45 shovel ready, cash for clunker, UAW bail out. 1 trillion+ tax payer money
squandered in just a couple years.
using procedure loophole to force through O8care on party line. that s the
last straw for me.
BLM参 |
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发帖数: 1 | 48 United Automobile Workers |
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发帖数: 1 | 49 United Automobile Workers
就靠这些工人兄弟抬老唐进白宫了 |
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h*******n
发帖数: 8906 | 50 再来一届巴马the same 汽车制造业工会好进回收站了 |
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