m******g
发帖数: 17798 | 1 现在想想，茄子onside，让钢人一个飞狗，应该有足够的时间进攻，争取OT的。。。 |
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Y******e
发帖数: 20256 | 2 看，我都说了，还不如搞个onside kick. |
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r***l
发帖数: 9084 | 3 球没抓到倒算了，又被罚了30码，几秒后就被TD,太伤士气了。
真是没必要搞那个onside. |
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l*****y
发帖数: 4887 | 4 仔细看了好几遍，还是没怎么看清楚
好像和一般设计好的onside kick不同
Bama的这个trick play是直接踢了个高球，而不是弹地反弹的pooch kick
所以有一个问题是，Clemson的队员是否有机会fair catch
理论上kickoff，球不触地，不接触接球方，
飞行10码以后是可以被接球一方fair catch的
如果可以，就又出现一个伴生的问题
具体到这个例子，那个区域没有Clemson球员
那么一个后面的球员，
随便谁，哪怕不在接球区域，基本没可能catch到球，是否能做fair catch手势
我的理解是，做了fair catch的手势，至少Bama球员就不能在球落地前触球
因为fair catch rule要在落地以后才解除
这样至少还有bounce起来后，双方抢滚地球的机会
总之感觉这个kick处理怪怪的 |
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B*******o
发帖数: 212 | 5 完全懵了吧，哪想到这个。就看到橘黄教练之后气急败坏
[在 lonephy (12345) 的大作中提到：]
：仔细看了好几遍，还是没怎么看清楚
：好像和一般设计好的onside kick不同
：........... |
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B*****e
发帖数: 9375 | 7
我说了两句话 是哪句话不对？
"On a kick off, either side can get the ball." -- 这是对的吧
＂踢球方确实不能干扰阻挡他接球＂ -- 我是说这句话是错的
是说(10码过后 接球方没有叫fair catch的情况下)
踢球方也可以像接球方一样理直气壮的去抢球 不必谦让
如果在这抢球过程中"干扰阻挡"了接球方 so be it
Which was exactly what happened on this onside kick last night. |
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B**********2
发帖数: 923 | 8 我在现场第一反应就是为什么没有人 signal for fair catch. 这样球弹地再抢得手率
高一些。
仔细想想可能球员从小到大没碰到过这种情况，经验上有欠缺。
：仔细看了好几遍，还是没怎么看清楚
：好像和一般设计好的onside kick不同 |
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s**********l
发帖数: 8966 | 9 我觉得这个是正解：
bama昨天偷袭了一下没有先踢地，dabo不了解规则以为没先踢地kickoff方不能接球所
以大吵大闹。Saban就是欺负clemson球员站位不好同时忘了onside如果不先着地可以
fair catch这事儿。
最后裁判review宣布有效。 |
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E********t
发帖数: 4091 | 10 "Active NCAA official here with an answer...
You can fair catch a kickoff (rule 6-5-1c), but it doesn’t afford any
special opportunity to catch the ball, it’s just a promise not to advance
the ball in exchange for not being hit.
The opportunity to catch a kick is covered by rule 6-4 and is separate from
the fair catch rule. If a player is in a position to catch the ball (on a
kickoff or scrimmage kick), they have to be given an opportunity to field
the kick, fair catch signal or no.
In this case... 阅读全帖 |
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E********t
发帖数: 4091 | 11
看链接 Saban和教练组通过录像发现除了Clemson的球员习惯密集站位外 那个角落的队
员Kearse通常习惯是不等球落地就回跑 所以再经过前三节确认对手这两个pattern没有
改变 于是就果断的call了这个play 开球时Kearse虽然没立刻开跑 但是平时的习惯导
致重心跟不上 于是就悲剧了
再一个细节是接球的Bama特工队员Humphrey是美国2013青年田径锦标赛上110米和400米
栏的冠军 跑的又快 跳的又高
这个onside kick的练习的细节程度基本已经让Clemson无解了... |
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l*****y
发帖数: 4887 | 12 关键这个“no receiver was in a position to catch the kick”太主观
球还在空中，谁接得到接不到不太好说，落地了当然没问题
所以Pooch Kick的onside kick才那么流行，直接反弹一次后，大家抢。。。
做了fair catch手势，理论上就不能阻挡他接球
落地之前被抱住，相当于他被阻挡了opportunity to field the kick
当然了，所谓not in a position这种主观判断在Football里面也不少
比如uncatchable，所以没PI，
就是想知道这个not in a position to receive 是不是裁判的判断
是否这个判断是fair catch不成立的必要条件。
from |
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s*****c
发帖数: 753 | 13 There is a key point you didn't cover. When a ball is kicked directly to the
air, the receiving side can call fair catch to ensure he can get the ball.
Once the ball is bounced, it is live ball. Kicking side can block the
receiving side. That is why in almost all circumstances, the onside kicker
will kick the ball to the ground to let it bounce.
fair |
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n******r
发帖数: 4455 | 14 如果一场被人玩成两次onside kick，特工队教练是不是最好自尽了 |
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Y******e
发帖数: 20256 | 15 那这样踢出界给35 yard开始不就行了。onside kick要到40yard 了。 |
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S****o
发帖数: 503 | 17 这跟你跑回多远没有任何关系。因为你一直处于“offside”的状态，“offside”的状
态是队友触球时决定的，你自己是不能回到“onside”的。
什么时候可变成“onside”状态？USSF的Advice to Referee中是这么说的：
11.7 Becoming Onside
The status of being in an onside or an offside position is determined at the
moment the ball is last touched/played by a teammate and continues until
one of the following events occurs:
• a teammate again touches or plays the ball,
• a defender plays (possesses and controls, not simply deflects) the
ball, or
• the ball goes out of play... 阅读全帖 |
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b******u
发帖数: 469 | 18 onside kick, wikipedia写，03-06年的成功率是20%
这还是在大家都不expect你onside的情况下。如果你onside的可能性增加，成功率肯定
还要小
如果对方recover，大概在你的40码处。如果你不onside kick，算在对方的30码处，差
30码。大概
是这样。 |
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l*****a
发帖数: 3630 | 19 我觉得最大的影响不是这会让returner变得不重要，而是这个变化会提高onside kick
的发生机会。
3年前30yd的时候算onside踢大约10yd, 这样随便攻一下，即使没拿到FD, 也基本进入
kicker射程了。
如果现在变成40yd,那么onside失败的话很可能也是在对方的45-50yd范围，给防守组更
大的缓冲空间。
所以如果这个提案通过的话，比赛中会有更多的onside kick出现。 |
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L*******d
发帖数: 2760 | 20 如果这个规则不合理，早就被取消了。
不能怨这个onside kick，真是是橙虎的没站好位置，onside kick他们那边怎么可能一
大片空白。
onside kick 踢得人风险很大，从25yard开始踢，不能踢太远，一旦失败，大部分情况
至少送3分。但是，对方的风险在于很容易被kick方抢到球。
这样的规则使得游戏更有趣味性，更加耐看，而且橙虎今天不一定光输在这个onside
kick上面，那个punt return TD是一个致命的失误。另外，好多次的漏人这些你都选择
性的忽略？巴马防守基本没有大的失误，毕竟面对的是梦森。 |
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s*********i
发帖数: 1813 | 21 想起来一个关于onside kick的问题。根据定义，The ball must travel 10 yards
downfield before the kicking team can touch it unless the receiving team
touches it first within 10 yards. If the kickoff doesn't travel 10 yards
downfield the receiving team is not obligated to attempt a return.
那假如知道对方要onside kick，那receiving team可不可以干脆就不接这个球，因为
onside kick规定必须要receving team先touch球，kicking team才有可能recover。所
以干脆不接这个球，岂不是对防守队很有利？ |
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B*****e
发帖数: 9375 | 22 但是onside kick并没有甚么特殊,
没有特殊规则, 也没有特殊的手势/信号,
只是按常理来说特殊.
所以一方要是onside kick, 没抢着球,
然后说我那其实不是onside, 就是一正常的kick off, kicker踢漏脚而已.
你怎么反驳他呢? |
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b**j
发帖数: 20742 | 23 NFL早就考虑好了
APPROVED RULINGS
A.R. 16.1 KICKOFF RETURN FOR TOUCHDOWN
Team B receives the opening kickoff and returns it for a touchdown.
Ruling: Game over. Team B wins.
A.R. 16.2 ONSIDE KICK
On the opening kickoff of overtime, Team A legally recovers the ball at the
A41.
Ruling: A’s ball, first-and-10 on A41. A kickoff is considered an opportuni
ty to possess for the receiving team. Team B is
considered to have had an opportunity to possess the ball.
A.R. 16.3 ONSIDE KICK
On the opening kickoff of ... 阅读全帖 |
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d***o
发帖数: 6117 | 24 富康昨天俩onside
一个6分钟左右标准onside踢了刚到10码被吕晚cover了，然后成了飞狗
另外一个2分多钟落后6分踢了20码远被猪泥深稳稳抱住，后来给td了
界最后一个onside很费解
如果能防3档那踢再远点胖回来直接就有机会反超，而如果是飞狗还得俩drive
些。 |
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b**l
发帖数: 33123 | 25 ☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
bluepen (bluepen) 于 (Thu Feb 2 01:37:45 2017, 美东) 提到:
TNND 太震惊了 29岁就退了
最喜欢的colts队员之一
香菇 蓝瘦
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
lpx (老胖雄) 于 (Thu Feb 2 07:28:31 2017, 美东) 提到:
From Wikipedia
McAfee attended Plum High School in his hometown of Plum, Pennsylvania,
playing both soccer and football. As a senior, he borrowed $100 from a
friend and played poker at an illegal poker club, turning it into $1,400. He
used the funds to finance a trip ... 阅读全帖 |
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l**k
发帖数: 45267 | 26 onside kick 失败说明了之前KSU落后两次得分
你让我们庆幸onside kick失败，还不如让KSU庆幸最后一次进攻得了分
因为onside本来就是九成概率失败，得分倒是五五开 |
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c****n
发帖数: 21367 | 27 LOTG Q&A 2006 11-6
Player A plays the ball to a team-mate B in an onside position, although
there is another attacker C in an offside position. Play continues, and
afterwards, in the next phase of play, player B sends the ball to player
C, who now is in an onside position. He scores a goal. What action
does the referee take?
The referee awards the goal; because when player C received the ball
he was in an onside position. He would not be penalised for being in
an offside position in the first ph |
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w****b
发帖数: 623 | 28 Think again. Pinning down CQ does not help. You still only have 8 tricks. You
still need to bring in D.
The problem is not about percentage play. Percertange wise discarding 2 D is
the right play, since C only requires Q onside where D requires Q onside and
3-2 -- that's what happened on our table.
But there's also a very subtle sign that may lead you to the anti-percentage
but successful line...
discarding |
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w****b
发帖数: 623 | 29 Finessing H succeeds when H is 3-2, and HK onside, a 31% chance. The chance of
finessing D is more complex. You succeed when DK onside, D3-3, or 4-2, but the
person holding short D does not have Hxxx. It's actually slightly better that,
since if you play DQ, if East has DKx Hxxx, it's hard for him not to cover.
Then even he has Kxxx, there's a likelyhood that he'll cover (you might have
AJxx). So you will make this most of the time even when East had AQxxx Kx Kxxx
xx.
So I'd say finesse D. |
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i****e
发帖数: 642 | 30
You are right.
It is enough to ruff one D if DK is onside. However, wimptb's line 1 is much
better if DK is onside. |
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a****s
发帖数: 524 | 31 Already gone all-in betting on DQ offside.
If you play it onside, you will get either a bottom or an average, if you
play it offside, a bottom or a top.
This doesn't look like a good gamble, unless you can guess correctly at the
end most of the times (more than 2/3). Because you could have locked in a 50
% by taking the finesse earlier.
Since I am a bad guesser, I would have taken the finesse earlier.
Now seems the DQ is onside, I am more into taking the finesse. Yeah, like a
wimp, fold after go... 阅读全帖 |
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i****e
发帖数: 642 | 32 I was tricking you :)
You are right that the real chance is actually CQ onside. But playing
squeeze will take care of the unlikely chance with CQx offside.
LHO has:
KJTxx
-
KJxxx
Qxx
At the table, a commentator said it would be a make since declarer has no
way to go wrong. He meant both SK and CQ are onside, and CQ will drop in
third round. But after giving up the finesse on SJ lead, all those nice
options are gone, except C finesse.
In fact, LHO was squeezed in 3 suits, so he had to give up CQ... 阅读全帖 |
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i****e
发帖数: 642 | 33 Possible choice for the first hand:
1. CQ onside, then either C 3-3, or HQ drops;
2. drop singlton DQ or J from RHO;
3. DQJ onside.
Or someway to combine some of above. What do you start first? |
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t********6
发帖数: 1728 | 34 但是教练还是主要问题，这个Caldwell就是个没有GUTS和能力的怂包。
上半场快结束时，三次跑攻，没能拿下first down，结果不得不punt, 让Saints最后拿
了三分。打发太保守了，就让PM扔，拿下first down，不说自己得分，至少Sanits不会
半场前不会得分。要是Sean Payton, 我敢打赌他会叫Bree 扔的，拿下first down.
下半场开始的onside kick, Caldwell更是猪头。Sean Payton已经显示了不会按常理出
牌,结果onside kick，Colts一点准备都没有。
另外，Caldwell不用管进攻吧，那就搞搞防守，结果防守就像个筛子，而且毫无调整和
办法。这样的猪头，趁早滚蛋! |
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g**********y
发帖数: 14569 | 35 昨天的球看得很郁闷，不止是我支持的扣子输了，而且是完败；完败都不郁闷，最郁闷
的是完败给细节。输完了觉得很窝囊。这种感觉上一次是98年巴西打法国。我很不鸟法
国乌龟队，不出错的防守，加上完美中场，和花瓶前锋，耗完所有时间，冷不丁的后卫
给你搞进个球，比赛就结束了。但是就是这样的乌龟队，把巴西打了个3：0，法国进3
个球没什么，那只巴西队被零封，真让人受不了，尤其是耳朵，简直不能相信自己眼睛
真的看的是耳朵在踢球。
回过头来说说昨天吧。五个错，一是Garcon的掉球，那个球接住就意味着扣子defense
能喘口气，比分也有可能拉开。二是3-and-1, 选择了稳健的跑，结果是丢掉一个飞狗
。三是onside kick, 被人埋伏了，没辙。四是Manning的interception。数错了？没有
。这四个错，任何一个都不致命，但是这四个背后还有一个：Saints的offense慢吞吞
地一步一步推进，扣子无解，这就玩完了。我看见掉球和onside kick时，觉得还可以
打。但是看见Drew Brees 5-yard, 10-yard地传球，最近的防守队员都离了4，5码时，
我开始觉得不 |
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A*********u
发帖数: 8976 | 36 扣子保守了
Saints求胜欲不是一般地强
昨天的球看得很郁闷，不止是我支持的扣子输了，而且是完败；完败都不郁闷，最郁闷
的是完败给细节。输完了觉得很窝囊。这种感觉上一次是98年巴西打法国。我很不鸟法
国乌龟队，不出错的防守，加上完美中场，和花瓶前锋，耗完所有时间，冷不丁的后卫
给你搞进个球，比赛就结束了。但是就是这样的乌龟队，把巴西打了个3：0，法国进3
个球没什么，那只巴西队被零封，真让人受不了，尤其是耳朵，简直不能相信自己眼睛
真的看的是耳朵在踢球。
回过头来说说昨天吧。五个错，一是Garcon的掉球，那个球接住就意味着扣子defense
能喘口气，比分也有可能拉开。二是3-and-1, 选择了稳健的跑，结果是丢掉一个飞狗
。三是onside kick, 被人埋伏了，没辙。四是Manning的interception。数错了？没有
。这四个错，任何一个都不致命，但是这四个背后还有一个：Saints的offense慢吞吞
地一步一步推进，扣子无解，这就玩完了。我看见掉球和onside kick时，觉得还可以
打。但是看见Drew Brees 5-yard, 10-yard地传球， |
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G******y
发帖数: 1831 | 37 The key is that both team needs to have the ball if only field goal is made.
Thus if the kick off team decides to onside kick and lose the ball, the
other team kicks a field goal should win. On the contrary, if the team who
kicks the onside kick recovers and gets a field goal, the game does not end. |
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t*******n
发帖数: 417 | 38 how come?
A onside kick to B, B recover and fg, the game should continue, right? A
never had possession, onside kick or otherwise. |
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t*******n
发帖数: 417 | 39 这种低成功率是因为大家都没有苦练onside。
以后每个队都养个专练onside的，死命往天上踢，就看掉下来馅饼砸到谁。 |
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l*****8
发帖数: 16949 | 40 是不是Onside Kick没关系，只要Kick off receiving team没有拿到球，就是突然死亡
。这个可能是因为onside kick,也可能是因为receiving team fumble. |
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G**Y
发帖数: 33224 | 41 今年季后赛，onside没成功过，
seahawks踢了个极不错的，还是没能recover
以前看统计，设计的onside的成功率极低，偷袭的成功率略高。 |
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l*x
发帖数: 14021 | 42 4 onsite kicks then 11－man blitz
Arkansas power leads team 29-0 before it can run a play
http://rivals.yahoo.com/highschool/blog/prep_rally/post/Arkansa
If you thought the onside kicks would stop with a near 30-point lead, you're wrong. Pulaski actually attempted a fourth straight onside kick, but Cabot finally recovered. Yet the plays immediately following Cabot's recovery were hardly more successful, as Pulaski used an 11-man rush to fluster Cabot's quarterback, who promptly fired off incomple... 阅读全帖 |
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l*****8
发帖数: 16949 | 44 据说古代二在考虑取消kick off.得分的队伍从己方30码4th and 15开球。这样通常都
会胖球。如果要类似onside kick的赌博，也可以一试。这个队有好QB的是利好消息，
recover的机会是不是比onside大一点？ |
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l*****8
发帖数: 16949 | 45 其实这样的话，愿意搞偷袭的反而少了。因为不成功的话对方就已经可以踢飞狗了。以
前的onside失败的话还好一点。而且我觉得如果都没准备，onside可能成功率高一点。
但如果都有准备，4th and 15成功率会高一点。 |
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B*****e
发帖数: 9375 | 46 Right, thus all the onside (it's onside, folks, not on-site as in job
interviews:) kicks are drilled to the ground first,
eliminating the opposing teams' option to call a fair catch.
As to the discussion that followed:
1. In a kick off, any team can recover the ball after it travels more than
10 yards;
2. No, you cannot score a FG on a kick off, because, among other
requirements, only a drop kick (without a tee) can be used for scoring;
3. In a punt, ball possession is surrendered as soon as t... 阅读全帖 |
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b******d
发帖数: 9694 | 47 不得不说Mike Smith是猪头， 尼玛搞了一个Onside已经是行大运了， 剩下三分钟还再
搞Onside， 真以为玩Madden呢？ |
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l**k
发帖数: 45267 | 48 不练onside也不练防onside在季后赛要吃大亏啊 |
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l*****a
发帖数: 3630 | 49 这个改动其实对落后的球队更有利一些，感觉成功率比onside高一些。onside运气成分
太大了。 |
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b*****e
发帖数: 53215 | 50 吴那时候已经棋力比秀哉高了，坊门一家子才勉强赢下来，根本不是onside
onside |
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