T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 1 I want to start a new post on this question, also as a response to Yisu's
post earlier.
I also feel that the will to understand the Truth is very important, and it
is closely related to the faith.
Well, what is the will to find the Truth? What is it exactly? Is it the
belief that there must be a reason, aka, karma? Is it the faith that there
must be a way out, aka, nirvana? Or is it the intuition (built-in essence of
a soul, or collective unconscious, or whatever it's called) that keeps
calling on us to pursue it?
Do you think that there is only ONE, or only nirvana is the ultimate ONE? I
want an answer not by Buddhism Sutra, but by what you feel in heart, or what
you understand as of now, in your current status.
I am asking this also because I was reading that book "Conversations with
God, book 2" over the Thanksgiving break, and I watched the DVD, which might
be based on book 1 that I haven't read yet. In the DVD, Neale had
encountered a very bad car accident, lost his job, lived in a tent in a park
as being practically homeless for a long time, before he found himself a
new job, and yet this radio station (he was a DJ there) went bankrupt
without anyone telling him anything beforehand. That's when he asked God why
why why till he found the answers in his head that he just needed to write
it down on a notepad.
The key thing I want to understand more is the concept of time, and this
book explains it as being a spindle with leaves of pages, as if each page is
a time instant, and they are always there, and we can peek into the past or
the future, or essentially there's no time, or, there is only present
moment.
Then regarding where God is, this book answers it as everywhere, as What It
Is. Since it's everywhere, it's also nowhere, as any place of itself would
be a separation from other places, but it's not, it's everywhere. Also, as
mentioned by freeman08, nowhere= Now Here.
发信人: Yisu (大头教主), 信区: Wisdom
标 题: Re: Carl Jung's Near Death Experience in 1944 (zz)
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Nov 24 11:55:10 2011, 美东)
Sorry, I missed this post..Let me take a look..the question is why do you
think that Buddha can become Budda?
En...I think firstly it because he, like anyone else, has the potential to
become a Budda. It's like a seed planted, and with certain condition, it
surely will flourish one day. According to the Budda, everyone has the seed,
and everyone will eventually be there. But speaking of the last one, why is
him, not Y is U, or not Y is me..
I think the most imporant difference between he and us is the WILL.
And also how strong the will is to know the truth, to practice, and to get
there.
The inital will is so strong that it supports practise over the countless
lifes and the practice on the way reversely make the will stronger, making
it a healhty progressing.
Those who think he has not been improved over years should check the will
first, is that strong enough. Like the exmaple I mentioned in another post,
sth like a person's will to get above the water.
I believed he has undergone much much more practices and tests than us in
all his lifes. looks like that's the reason, but that could be a result at
the same time too.. | K*****k
发帖数: 1611 | 2 呵呵，你好像问不只一个问题
will, belief, intuition,
GOD(s), truth, faith, time...
估计没有一个是有标准答案的
就个人感觉友情灌点水。
“Well, what is the will to find the Truth? What is it exactly? Is it the
belief that there must be a reason, aka, karma? Is it the faith that there
must be a way out, aka, nirvana? Or is it the intuition (built-in essence of
a soul, or collective unconscious, or whatever it's called) that keeps
calling on us to pursue it?”
不太清楚，但是圣经里的一句话，
比较符合我的感觉
...and the truth will set you free." (John 8:32)
“Do you think that there is only ONE, or only nirvana is the ultimate ONE?
I
want an answer not by Buddhism Sutra, but by what you feel in heart, or what
you understand as of now, in your current status.”
就我个人而言，GOD就一个
那就是自然界的规律。
但反映到人的意识时
会有不同的认识。
“The key thing I want to understand more is the concept of time, and this
book explains it as being a spindle with leaves of pages, as if each page is
a time instant, and they are always there, and we can peek into the past or
the future, or essentially there's no time, or, there is only present
moment.”
我对时间认识来自钟和相对论
但是我还是不懂的时间到底是什麽。呵呵
“Then regarding where God is, this book answers it as everywhere, as What
It
Is. Since it's everywhere, it's also nowhere, as any place of itself would
be a separation from other places, but it's not, it's everywhere. Also, as
mentioned by freeman08, nowhere= Now Here.”
自然规律无处不在。
所以GOD也是无处不在。
it
of
I
【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: I want to start a new post on this question, also as a response to Yisu's
: post earlier.
: I also feel that the will to understand the Truth is very important, and it
: is closely related to the faith.
: Well, what is the will to find the Truth? What is it exactly? Is it the
: belief that there must be a reason, aka, karma? Is it the faith that there
: must be a way out, aka, nirvana? Or is it the intuition (built-in essence of
: a soul, or collective unconscious, or whatever it's called) that keeps
: calling on us to pursue it?
: Do you think that there is only ONE, or only nirvana is the ultimate ONE? I
| Y**u
发帖数: 5466 | 3 哈，为了能表达清楚一些，我还是用中文吧，
这么多问题，也不知道该从哪里开始说，就说到哪里是哪里吧。。反正都是个人看法.
佛是悟了的众生，而众生是未悟得佛。 可是佛为什么能悟呢，却也不是和众生豪无关
系，佛的力量来自众生。 为什么这么说呢？
还是举了例子吧。 一杯水，你拿起来摇一摇，有一滴水掉了出来。 我们来仔细考察一
下这一滴掉出来的水珠。 是什么让他掉了出来，而不是别的水珠？ 摇动是一个因，还
有什么呢？
是否可以说，没有别的水珠，在相同的摇动下，它也可以出来呢？ 显然，其它的水珠
的存在是这个水珠出来的另一原因(反作用力)。唯一不同的是水珠没有人一样的意识。
佛的觉悟过程也是类似的，在因缘条件满足下，肯定有一个人要成佛，但这是统一作用
的结果，即是个人的愿望和实践，又是众生的愿望和实践。
佛在忍辱仙人的时候，被人肢解，反对那个人说，以后我成佛，先来度你。 什么意思
？ 因为正是这个人帮了他大忙。 佛法在世间，不离世间觉。 世间无常是苦，觉者反
转为菩提。 佛以众生心为心，众生有多苦，佛就有多少慈悲。 所以我们问佛的力量和
智慧从哪里来，我觉得就是众生。
那么这个世界的本质是不是一个。 与神对话是一本很有意思的书。我认同其中很多道
理。比如说第一本中提到的神圣二分法。 这一点在中国传统宗教中，尤其是道教，反
映的比较多。道教是隐晦隐晦地讲，而这本书就是明明白白地说。
是，这本书的确很多地方提到了唯一的存在。我个人觉得可能是语言文字的效果， 那
可能并不是他想要表达的。 襌宗有以个公案讲的是有益个和尚问赵州：万法归一，一
归何所？赵州曰：“老僧在青州，作得一领布衫，重七斤。。。
这个公案是在打破这个和尚对一的执着。 每一个执着， 不管是对一也好，对万也好
，都是应该放下的。 一又在哪里呢？ 一不就是万法吗。。道家讲道生一，一生。。。
， 一从道来， 但是道却非一非二。 道非一二，却以一二的形式来展现。
所以我不认为有这么“一个”，因为我希望能真正见到这么“一个”。
it
of
I
【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: I want to start a new post on this question, also as a response to Yisu's
: post earlier.
: I also feel that the will to understand the Truth is very important, and it
: is closely related to the faith.
: Well, what is the will to find the Truth? What is it exactly? Is it the
: belief that there must be a reason, aka, karma? Is it the faith that there
: must be a way out, aka, nirvana? Or is it the intuition (built-in essence of
: a soul, or collective unconscious, or whatever it's called) that keeps
: calling on us to pursue it?
: Do you think that there is only ONE, or only nirvana is the ultimate ONE? I
| N*******n
发帖数: 348 | 4 Interesting discussion and I want to give you my thoughts.
The "ONE" or nirvana, or whatever you want to call it, is within you. It is
your true nature. So what it our true nature? We all want to be happy, we
all love our our parents, we all want to be worry free, we all want to do
things effortlessly and fearlessly, etc., this is our true nature - the
state of happiness, love and kindness, fearless and no worry. This state is
born with us, it is our true nature. Nothing can change this state, and this
state does not depend on any outside support. This is the truth. When we
don't recognize our true nature, this is called "无明". Buddhism is a path
to discover our true nature and be with our true nature so that we don't
have suffering.
it
of
I
【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: I want to start a new post on this question, also as a response to Yisu's
: post earlier.
: I also feel that the will to understand the Truth is very important, and it
: is closely related to the faith.
: Well, what is the will to find the Truth? What is it exactly? Is it the
: belief that there must be a reason, aka, karma? Is it the faith that there
: must be a way out, aka, nirvana? Or is it the intuition (built-in essence of
: a soul, or collective unconscious, or whatever it's called) that keeps
: calling on us to pursue it?
: Do you think that there is only ONE, or only nirvana is the ultimate ONE? I
| T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 5 hehe, Zan 友情灌水. I agree that everyone may have his/her own
interpretation on this.
【在 K*****k 的大作中提到】
: 呵呵，你好像问不只一个问题
: will, belief, intuition,
: GOD(s), truth, faith, time...
: 估计没有一个是有标准答案的
: 就个人感觉友情灌点水。
: “Well, what is the will to find the Truth? What is it exactly? Is it the
: belief that there must be a reason, aka, karma? Is it the faith that there
: must be a way out, aka, nirvana? Or is it the intuition (built-in essence of
: a soul, or collective unconscious, or whatever it's called) that keeps
: calling on us to pursue it?”
| T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 6 en. It makes sense.
I tend to believe that it does not matter which way one chooses to be
connected with this ONE/Wisdom/God (whatever it's called), and religions are
especially limiting with rituals and bans. There's some discussion in this
book on how Christianity is ridiculously practiced, and it seems the same to
me in other religions. However, a good teacher is also very helpful on this
journey. Both are needed.
.佛是悟了的众生，而众生是未悟得佛。 可是佛为什么能悟呢，却也不是和众生豪无关
系，佛的力量来自众生。 为什么这么说呢？
一下这一滴掉出来的水珠。 是什么让他掉了出来，而不是别的水珠？ 摇动是一个因，
还有什么呢？是否可以说，没有别的水珠，在相同的摇动下，它也可以出来呢？ 显然
，其它的水珠的存在是这个水珠出来的另一原因(反作用力)。唯一不同的是水珠没有人
一样的意识。
【在 Y**u 的大作中提到】
: 哈，为了能表达清楚一些，我还是用中文吧，
: 这么多问题，也不知道该从哪里开始说，就说到哪里是哪里吧。。反正都是个人看法.
: 佛是悟了的众生，而众生是未悟得佛。 可是佛为什么能悟呢，却也不是和众生豪无关
: 系，佛的力量来自众生。 为什么这么说呢？
: 还是举了例子吧。 一杯水，你拿起来摇一摇，有一滴水掉了出来。 我们来仔细考察一
: 下这一滴掉出来的水珠。 是什么让他掉了出来，而不是别的水珠？ 摇动是一个因，还
: 有什么呢？
: 是否可以说，没有别的水珠，在相同的摇动下，它也可以出来呢？ 显然，其它的水珠
: 的存在是这个水珠出来的另一原因(反作用力)。唯一不同的是水珠没有人一样的意识。
: 佛的觉悟过程也是类似的，在因缘条件满足下，肯定有一个人要成佛，但这是统一作用
| T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 7 Thank you very much! I really appreciate it.
I also believe that every soul has that born and true nature, and every soul
is truly equal in this journey.
In Buddhism, there are different levels of awareness. That's something that
I am still pondering upon. How would one evaluate that? Although I hear that
measuring itself is also an obstacle to reaching either level. I want to
understand this evaluation more, as I want to know how would one know other
approaches, other than Buddhism, do not reach the same One? Could you share
more thoughts on this?
is your true nature. So what it our true nature? We all want to be happy, we
all love our our parents, we all want to be worry free, we all want to do
things effortlessly and fearlessly, etc., this is our true nature - the
state of happiness, love and kindness, fearless and no worry. This state is
born with us, it is our true nature. Nothing can change this state, and this
state does not depend on any outside support. This is the truth. When we
don't recognize our true nature, this is called "无明". Buddhism is a path
to discover our true nature and be with our true nature so that we don't
【在 N*******n 的大作中提到】
: Interesting discussion and I want to give you my thoughts.
: The "ONE" or nirvana, or whatever you want to call it, is within you. It is
: your true nature. So what it our true nature? We all want to be happy, we
: all love our our parents, we all want to be worry free, we all want to do
: things effortlessly and fearlessly, etc., this is our true nature - the
: state of happiness, love and kindness, fearless and no worry. This state is
: born with us, it is our true nature. Nothing can change this state, and this
: state does not depend on any outside support. This is the truth. When we
: don't recognize our true nature, this is called "无明". Buddhism is a path
: to discover our true nature and be with our true nature so that we don't
| N*******n
发帖数: 348 | 8 You are welcome. Good discussion is nice to have.
I am not sure what you mean by "levels of awareness". Can you explain?
If we give awareness a definition, I would say awareness is the ability to
see the movement in the mind. Or one can say awareness is the clearity of
the mind. It's the same meaning. The awareness is born with us and it can
cut though anything appears in the mind. As a begginer meditator, the
awareness is hidden behind the thoughts and emotions and can not be seen. As
one progresses in medition, the mind become calmer and the awareness become
clearer. As the meditator continues to progress, the awareness become so
clear, that it is realizes as the natural born wisdom. The awareness is the
same awareness, but the experience changes as the meditation progress.
As for your question regarding how could one know other approaches, other
than Buddhism, do not reach the same One, I can not say other approaches can
not reach the same level as Buddha. But I can say for sure that no other
approaches can surpass the level of Buddha. The awareness, this natural born
wisdom, is so sharp and it can cut through anything and any suffering, what
else can surpass it?
soul
that
that
other
share
we
【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: Thank you very much! I really appreciate it.
: I also believe that every soul has that born and true nature, and every soul
: is truly equal in this journey.
: In Buddhism, there are different levels of awareness. That's something that
: I am still pondering upon. How would one evaluate that? Although I hear that
: measuring itself is also an obstacle to reaching either level. I want to
: understand this evaluation more, as I want to know how would one know other
: approaches, other than Buddhism, do not reach the same One? Could you share
: more thoughts on this?
:
| T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 9 Thank you so much!
By different levels of awareness, I meant different levels or kinds of 解脱,
and the different levels of souls such as 佛、菩薩、天、人、阿修羅, etc. It
somehow seems to me that it's either a yes to be in that awareness or a no,
at each instant, but not something like 50% there, 90% there, etc. However,
I do have a level in mind, as how evolved a soul can be, in the sense how
often the soul can maintain that awareness. Once a soul reaches some
awareness, the soul may not stay in that awareness though. May I know what
you want to say more about this?
I liked your explanation on the awareness. I don't think that there's any
way that surpasses another, but rather all lead to the same One (or
awareness, or wisdom, etc). As I mentioned on this board earlier, Eckhart
Tolle, or Byron Katie, or many others had some profound spiritual
experiences, how do you evaluate their experiences by Buddhism standard, and
how confident are you in such evaluation?
see the movement in the mind. Or one can say awareness is the clearity of
the mind. It's the same meaning. The awareness is born with us and it can
cut though anything appears in the mind. As a begginer meditator, the
awareness is hidden behind the thoughts and emotions and can not be seen. As
one progresses in medition, the mind become calmer and the awareness become
clearer. As the meditator continues to progress, the awareness become so
clear, that it is realizes as the natural born wisdom. The awareness is the
【在 N*******n 的大作中提到】
: You are welcome. Good discussion is nice to have.
: I am not sure what you mean by "levels of awareness". Can you explain?
: If we give awareness a definition, I would say awareness is the ability to
: see the movement in the mind. Or one can say awareness is the clearity of
: the mind. It's the same meaning. The awareness is born with us and it can
: cut though anything appears in the mind. As a begginer meditator, the
: awareness is hidden behind the thoughts and emotions and can not be seen. As
: one progresses in medition, the mind become calmer and the awareness become
: clearer. As the meditator continues to progress, the awareness become so
: clear, that it is realizes as the natural born wisdom. The awareness is the
| N*******n
发帖数: 348 | 10 佛、菩薩、天、人、等不同是在执着的程度上不同,awareness 上的区别是有没有确定
的认知.任何人都可以说"我有awareness","我认知了awareness",但是通常他们所认知
的是mind, not true awareness.
我对Eckhart Tolle, Byron Katie都不了解, 没法作评价. 通常来说, 佛的境界,如果
没有传承,没有系统学习的是很难达到的. 就算某些人真的认知了觉性,那也只是在去除
执着的漫漫长路上的一个起点.
脱,
It
no,
However,
【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: Thank you so much!
: By different levels of awareness, I meant different levels or kinds of 解脱,
: and the different levels of souls such as 佛、菩薩、天、人、阿修羅, etc. It
: somehow seems to me that it's either a yes to be in that awareness or a no,
: at each instant, but not something like 50% there, 90% there, etc. However,
: I do have a level in mind, as how evolved a soul can be, in the sense how
: often the soul can maintain that awareness. Once a soul reaches some
: awareness, the soul may not stay in that awareness though. May I know what
: you want to say more about this?
: I liked your explanation on the awareness. I don't think that there's any
| | | T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 11 en. I see. Thank you! I think that I need to think more, and/or experience
more, to really understand this; also, not just mentally understanding it,
but knowing it.
定的认知.任何人都可以说"我有awareness","我认知了awareness",但是通常他们所认
知的是mind, not true awareness.
果没有传承,没有系统学习的是很难达到的. 就算某些人真的认知了觉性,那也只是在去
除执着的漫漫长路上的一个起点.
【在 N*******n 的大作中提到】
: 佛、菩薩、天、人、等不同是在执着的程度上不同,awareness 上的区别是有没有确定
: 的认知.任何人都可以说"我有awareness","我认知了awareness",但是通常他们所认知
: 的是mind, not true awareness.
: 我对Eckhart Tolle, Byron Katie都不了解, 没法作评价. 通常来说, 佛的境界,如果
: 没有传承,没有系统学习的是很难达到的. 就算某些人真的认知了觉性,那也只是在去除
: 执着的漫漫长路上的一个起点.
:
: 脱,
: It
: no,
| s*****l
发帖数: 263 | 12 其大无外 其小无内，若有所相，皆属虚妄。
CWG 我想主要是写给现在西方人看的。
it : is closely related to the faith.
belief that there must be a reason, aka, karma? Is it the faith that there :
must be a way out, aka, nirvana? Or is it the intuition (built-in essence
of: a soul, or collective unconscious, or whatever it's called) that keeps
I
【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: I want to start a new post on this question, also as a response to Yisu's
: post earlier.
: I also feel that the will to understand the Truth is very important, and it
: is closely related to the faith.
: Well, what is the will to find the Truth? What is it exactly? Is it the
: belief that there must be a reason, aka, karma? Is it the faith that there
: must be a way out, aka, nirvana? Or is it the intuition (built-in essence of
: a soul, or collective unconscious, or whatever it's called) that keeps
: calling on us to pursue it?
: Do you think that there is only ONE, or only nirvana is the ultimate ONE? I
| b**d
发帖数: 7644 | 13 俺觉得不是的。俺觉得true nature 是没有高兴或者不高兴。 happiness is a fruit
但是不是truth. Truth is unconditional world.
However, 俺喜欢你这个attitude. 我希望你讲的是真的，但是感觉可能不是的。
is
is
this
【在 N*******n 的大作中提到】
: Interesting discussion and I want to give you my thoughts.
: The "ONE" or nirvana, or whatever you want to call it, is within you. It is
: your true nature. So what it our true nature? We all want to be happy, we
: all love our our parents, we all want to be worry free, we all want to do
: things effortlessly and fearlessly, etc., this is our true nature - the
: state of happiness, love and kindness, fearless and no worry. This state is
: born with us, it is our true nature. Nothing can change this state, and this
: state does not depend on any outside support. This is the truth. When we
: don't recognize our true nature, this is called "无明". Buddhism is a path
: to discover our true nature and be with our true nature so that we don't
| N*******n
发帖数: 348 | 14 True Nature 就是心的本性。心性广大如虚空，但心性不仅是如虚空，不是绝对的空
无所有。超越一切相对的明空与慈悲喜舍其实是不可分割的。我们凡夫的乐往往是有得
失，有对境的乐。而我们与生俱来的心性中的乐与慈是无得失，无对境的广大的乐和慈
。It is unconditional。
当然你说得也没错，你也可以说"happiness is the fruit,但是不是truth." 只是我们
看的角度不同。
fruit
【在 b**d 的大作中提到】
: 俺觉得不是的。俺觉得true nature 是没有高兴或者不高兴。 happiness is a fruit
: 但是不是truth. Truth is unconditional world.
: However, 俺喜欢你这个attitude. 我希望你讲的是真的，但是感觉可能不是的。
:
: is
: is
: this
| J******s
发帖数: 7538 | 15 What is the 'true awareness'?
【在 N*******n 的大作中提到】
: 佛、菩薩、天、人、等不同是在执着的程度上不同,awareness 上的区别是有没有确定
: 的认知.任何人都可以说"我有awareness","我认知了awareness",但是通常他们所认知
: 的是mind, not true awareness.
: 我对Eckhart Tolle, Byron Katie都不了解, 没法作评价. 通常来说, 佛的境界,如果
: 没有传承,没有系统学习的是很难达到的. 就算某些人真的认知了觉性,那也只是在去除
: 执着的漫漫长路上的一个起点.
:
: 脱,
: It
: no,
| T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 16 That book is a conversation between Neale and God, and there're many
references to Christianity, indeed, but it mentions Buddhism as well. I
haven't finished reading it, so I can't say too much now.
【在 s*****l 的大作中提到】
: 其大无外 其小无内，若有所相，皆属虚妄。
: CWG 我想主要是写给现在西方人看的。
:
: it : is closely related to the faith.
: belief that there must be a reason, aka, karma? Is it the faith that there :
: must be a way out, aka, nirvana? Or is it the intuition (built-in essence
: of: a soul, or collective unconscious, or whatever it's called) that keeps
: I
| N*******n
发帖数: 348 | 17 True awareness happens when the awareness sees itself.
【在 J******s 的大作中提到】
: What is the 'true awareness'?
| J******s
发帖数: 7538 | 18 So how could awareness see itself when the subject and object are same?
【在 N*******n 的大作中提到】
: True awareness happens when the awareness sees itself.
| N*******n
发帖数: 348 | 19 The awareness can see itself because there is no subject and no object to
block it.
【在 J******s 的大作中提到】
: So how could awareness see itself when the subject and object are same?
| J******s
发帖数: 7538 | 20 I mean in your sentence 'the awareness can see itself' here subject is
awareness, and object is itself, how could the same subject see the same
object?
I am not asking the reason 'there is no subject and no object', even this is
the reason, I can't see the logical correctness of the causality.
Or can you give a clearer answer? :-)
【在 N*******n 的大作中提到】
: The awareness can see itself because there is no subject and no object to
: block it.
| | | N*******n
发帖数: 348 | 21 Awareness has three special properties: emptiness, clearity and ability to
know. Ability to know I mean it can know what your are thinking or what you
are doing. We are living beings because we all have this natural ability to
know. Empty means it has no shape or color or meaning, and it is not a
subject or object. You can't even describe it. The moment you describe it,
it becomes an object and it not true anymore. Normally because of strong
grasping by the mind, our awareness is covered by the thoughts and emotions.
But awareness is always there.
Words are pretty much reach its limit here. 你可以去看看禅宗祖师的开示.
is
【在 J******s 的大作中提到】
: I mean in your sentence 'the awareness can see itself' here subject is
: awareness, and object is itself, how could the same subject see the same
: object?
: I am not asking the reason 'there is no subject and no object', even this is
: the reason, I can't see the logical correctness of the causality.
: Or can you give a clearer answer? :-)
| N*******n
发帖数: 348 | 22 I was busy at work this morning and did not have time to type an example.
Now I have a little bit of time and I will try to explain to you with an
example. Suppose you are in a room. When you do not see anybody else in the
room, you know you are the only one in the room. This same situation can be
applied to awareness. Suppose this room has light - awareness is like the
light. Let's say there is nothing in the room except light. The room is
totally empty. Remember the awareness has the ability to know. Normally the
awareness is always busy knowing all the things happening in the room. Now
the room is totally empty. The awareness still try to know what's happening
in the room - try to know. What awareness sees? Only emptiness and clarity (
light), right? What is emptiness and light (clarity)? - Awareness. The
awareness is trying to know what's going on the room, instead it only see
the emptiness and clarity - which is itself. Now let's replace the room with
mind. Mind is just like a busy room, normally have lots of stuff going. But
when the mind is empty, what awareness sees? - Only emptiness and clarity.
This is one way awareness can see itself. That's why 早期襌宗提唱“无念为宗
”。
Without knowing your background on the path of Buddhism, I hope this is not
too strange or too difficult to you. But this is in deed difficult to
understand and also difficult to explain. The awareness has the ability to
know itself. This one of properties of awareness. This is the key point.
is
【在 J******s 的大作中提到】
: I mean in your sentence 'the awareness can see itself' here subject is
: awareness, and object is itself, how could the same subject see the same
: object?
: I am not asking the reason 'there is no subject and no object', even this is
: the reason, I can't see the logical correctness of the causality.
: Or can you give a clearer answer? :-)
| J******s
发帖数: 7538 | 23 I was busy at work this morning and did not have time to type an example.
Now I have a little bit of time and I will try to explain to you with an
example. Suppose you are in a room. When you do not see anybody else in the
room, you know you are the only one in the room. This same situation can be
applied to awareness. Suppose this room has light - awareness is like the
light. Let's say there is nothing in the room except light. The room is
totally empty. Remember the awareness has the ability to know. Normally the
awareness is always busy knowing all the things happening in the room. Now
the room is totally empty. The awareness still try to know what's happening
in the room - try to know. What awareness sees? Only emptiness and clarity (
light), right? What is emptiness and light (clarity)? - Awareness. The
awareness is trying to know what's going on the room, instead it only see
the emptiness and clarity - which is itself. Now let's replace the room with
mind. Mind is just like a busy room, normally have lots of stuff going. But
when the mind is empty, what awareness sees? - Only emptiness and clarity.
This is one way awareness can see itself. That's why 早期襌宗提唱“无念为宗
”。
-----------
First I should say thanks a lot for your detailed reply. :-)
Why does the awareness have the ability to know the room of mind is empty?
How to let the room of mind be empty?
How could the mind be empty?
When the mind is empty, could the awareness still work?
What is the physiological basis of our busy mind and the awareness?
Do they need similar mechanisms to run?
“无念”?
How to perform “无念”?
How to judge the awareness is the true awareness?
Could you give a scientific definition or description of the awareness?
Waiting for more input from you. Thanks! | b**d
发帖数: 7644 | 24 虽然看不懂，但是俺觉得蛮有道理的。 俺的脑海里一直有这么一副画面，就是一具肉
体一动不动，然后灵魂（awareness 再加点其他东东）一附上去，他就活啦。
Our physical body is not really ours, 实在只是一个physical being. awareness
是我们吗？我也不知道。 但是感觉这个话题很有意思。 纯属闲聊了。
【在 N*******n 的大作中提到】
: True awareness happens when the awareness sees itself.
| N*******n
发帖数: 348 | 25 You are welcome. I am not sure I can answer your questions, but I will try.
From your questions, I just realized that our discussion is a little too
advanced for you (don't get offended,:)), so i am going to back down to some
basics. I don't come to this board often and I don't know everyone's
background in Buddhism study. So, first, I want to ask you: do you do
meditation? A lot of things I am talking about above are based on meditation
experience. Without meditation, it is difficult to progress in the Buddhism
study. Second question, what kind of Buddhism text or books have you
studied?
First I should say thanks a lot for your detailed reply. :-)
Why does the awareness have the ability to know the room of mind is empty?
How to let the room of mind be empty?
>> Do you mean room or mind? Maybe you did not fully understand the example.
Maybe my example is not good example. :)
How could the mind be empty?
>>For begginers, it is difficult to detect. As you advance in meditation,
just let go of the thoughts, you can experience empty mind.
When the mind is empty, could the awareness still work?
>>Yes.
What is the physiological basis of our busy mind and the awareness?
>>Not sure what you mean. Just look at yourself, is your mind always
thinking about something?
Do they need similar mechanisms to run?
>>Again, not sure what you mean. Do you mean are they the function of the
brain cell? To me, I don't care. I just know from meditation experience and
buddhism study how mind and awareness work.
“无念”?
>>When mind is not thinking anything - no thought.
How to perform “无念”?
>> This is impossible for begginers. 念是心的功能,故无需刻意去造作无念.
How to judge the awareness is the true awareness?
>>For begginers, it is impossible to judge. It is also not neccessary. When
meditation, just be mindful of the meditation object.
Could you give a scientific definition or description of the awareness?
>>No, I don't have scientific definition of the awareness.
Waiting for more input from you. Thanks!
【在 J******s 的大作中提到】
: I was busy at work this morning and did not have time to type an example.
: Now I have a little bit of time and I will try to explain to you with an
: example. Suppose you are in a room. When you do not see anybody else in the
: room, you know you are the only one in the room. This same situation can be
: applied to awareness. Suppose this room has light - awareness is like the
: light. Let's say there is nothing in the room except light. The room is
: totally empty. Remember the awareness has the ability to know. Normally the
: awareness is always busy knowing all the things happening in the room. Now
: the room is totally empty. The awareness still try to know what's happening
: in the room - try to know. What awareness sees? Only emptiness and clarity (
| N*******n
发帖数: 348 | 26 呵呵,有点意思. 看了你这帖,想起了洞山禅师的开悟偈:
切忌从他觅，迢迢与我殊。
我今独自往，处处得逢渠。
渠今正是我，我今不是渠。
应须恁么会，方可契如如。
这里渠就是指awareness.
【 在 bdbd (kakali) 的大作中提到: 】
awareness | J******s
发帖数: 7538 | 27 haha
Could I ask some similar questions to you? How many years did you practice
meditation and to which stage you are? Which kind of books did you read? It
is very nice to hear that you may practice meditation for quite long time.
However, what I can not understand in the discussion there are always such a
lot judgements unrelated to the question itself. All the great teachers I
met never answered my questions in this way.Convincing answers come from
decent logic, clear definitions, the peacefulness and confidence sensed by
the audience.
I was not offended. ha
I asked those questions which may seem quite simple, but actually not so
easy to answer. I asked them because I had some answers or my own opinions
in my mind.
The Buddhism I am learning is quite different with what you prefer. But I
still want to know how you think about those questions.
thanks anyway!
I have sth to do, and may discuss with you in details some days later.
I can give you my answers to those questions.
Best wishes!
.
some
meditation
Buddhism
【在 N*******n 的大作中提到】
: You are welcome. I am not sure I can answer your questions, but I will try.
: From your questions, I just realized that our discussion is a little too
: advanced for you (don't get offended,:)), so i am going to back down to some
: basics. I don't come to this board often and I don't know everyone's
: background in Buddhism study. So, first, I want to ask you: do you do
: meditation? A lot of things I am talking about above are based on meditation
: experience. Without meditation, it is difficult to progress in the Buddhism
: study. Second question, what kind of Buddhism text or books have you
: studied?
:
| N*******n
发帖数: 348 | 28 I appologize for a my last post to you. It was written in a hurry and with
bad attitude. Really sorry for that.
Anyway, thank you for helping me seeing myself and my grasping through the
discussion.
May I recommend a book to you: <
Science of Happiness>>
http://www.amazon.com/Joy-Living-Unlocking-Science-Happiness/dp
It's a great book good for both Buddhist and non-Buddhist.
Have a good day and best wishes.
It
a
【在 J******s 的大作中提到】
: haha
: Could I ask some similar questions to you? How many years did you practice
: meditation and to which stage you are? Which kind of books did you read? It
: is very nice to hear that you may practice meditation for quite long time.
: However, what I can not understand in the discussion there are always such a
: lot judgements unrelated to the question itself. All the great teachers I
: met never answered my questions in this way.Convincing answers come from
: decent logic, clear definitions, the peacefulness and confidence sensed by
: the audience.
: I was not offended. ha
| b**d
发帖数: 7644 | 29 俺觉得你的问题在于你自己跟人讨论问题的时候，口气居高临下，不尊重他人。 all
the great teachers you see, I do not believe, they speak the way you do. 你
可以表达你的意见，但是与此同时，你必须明白别人的想法也是经过思考，值得尊重的
。 这只是给你的建议而已。
你说的什么不重要，而是你如何去说。 中国有句古话，一句话让人跳，一句话让人笑
。 I believe most people want others to 笑。。。。。。。。。
It
a
【在 J******s 的大作中提到】
: haha
: Could I ask some similar questions to you? How many years did you practice
: meditation and to which stage you are? Which kind of books did you read? It
: is very nice to hear that you may practice meditation for quite long time.
: However, what I can not understand in the discussion there are always such a
: lot judgements unrelated to the question itself. All the great teachers I
: met never answered my questions in this way.Convincing answers come from
: decent logic, clear definitions, the peacefulness and confidence sensed by
: the audience.
: I was not offended. ha
| N*******n
发帖数: 348 | 30 Jean的这一贴是因为我的回贴态度不好才引起的,所以是我的不对.我已经给她道歉了,
所以大家就不用再互相关爱了.:)
【在 b**d 的大作中提到】
: 俺觉得你的问题在于你自己跟人讨论问题的时候，口气居高临下，不尊重他人。 all
: the great teachers you see, I do not believe, they speak the way you do. 你
: 可以表达你的意见，但是与此同时，你必须明白别人的想法也是经过思考，值得尊重的
: 。 这只是给你的建议而已。
: 你说的什么不重要，而是你如何去说。 中国有句古话，一句话让人跳，一句话让人笑
: 。 I believe most people want others to 笑。。。。。。。。。
:
: It
: a
| | | b**d
发帖数: 7644 | 31 俺觉得她挺不错的，很爱学，讲东西也蛮有道理的，但是就因为说话口气太直，让人误
会，比较可惜，所以才说上面这些话的。 没有要攻击她的意思。估计俺说话也太直啦
。 ：）
【在 N*******n 的大作中提到】
: Jean的这一贴是因为我的回贴态度不好才引起的,所以是我的不对.我已经给她道歉了,
: 所以大家就不用再互相关爱了.:)
| J******s
发帖数: 7538 | 32 现在国内,翻过来的,就不多敲字了.谢谢推荐,我会认真读的,哈
:-)
其实我对你态度没有太大质疑了,不过我个人就比较喜欢就问题讨论问题
当然我讨论问题方式态度也有待改善,哈
and
【在 N*******n 的大作中提到】
: I appologize for a my last post to you. It was written in a hurry and with
: bad attitude. Really sorry for that.
: Anyway, thank you for helping me seeing myself and my grasping through the
: discussion.
: May I recommend a book to you: <: Science of Happiness>>
: http://www.amazon.com/Joy-Living-Unlocking-Science-Happiness/dp
: It's a great book good for both Buddhist and non-Buddhist.
: Have a good day and best wishes.
:
| J******s
发帖数: 7538 | 33 多谢指出缺点哈
我没居高临下的意思,不过我大概知道自己的问题了
我说的是好老师从不拿资历身份来讨论问题,当然老师大多数情况是合适不合适的区别
我给别人意见credit了
:-)
我觉得说什么和怎么说一样重要,你说的对方式确实很重要,但是取决于我们说话的目的
至于是让人跳还是笑,我理解的是让听众觉得舒服更好
thanks!
【在 b**d 的大作中提到】
: 俺觉得你的问题在于你自己跟人讨论问题的时候，口气居高临下，不尊重他人。 all
: the great teachers you see, I do not believe, they speak the way you do. 你
: 可以表达你的意见，但是与此同时，你必须明白别人的想法也是经过思考，值得尊重的
: 。 这只是给你的建议而已。
: 你说的什么不重要，而是你如何去说。 中国有句古话，一句话让人跳，一句话让人笑
: 。 I believe most people want others to 笑。。。。。。。。。
:
: It
: a
| J******s
发帖数: 7538 | 34 never mind:-)
【在 b**d 的大作中提到】
: 俺觉得她挺不错的，很爱学，讲东西也蛮有道理的，但是就因为说话口气太直，让人误
: 会，比较可惜，所以才说上面这些话的。 没有要攻击她的意思。估计俺说话也太直啦
: 。 ：）
| N*******n
发帖数: 348 | 35 我给你推荐的那本书，国内能买到中文版的，书名叫《世界上最快乐的人》。非常好的
讲述了禅修与生活的融合。如果你读了，有问题可以贴到版上来，我们大家一起学习讨
论。
【在 J******s 的大作中提到】
: 现在国内,翻过来的,就不多敲字了.谢谢推荐,我会认真读的,哈
: :-)
: 其实我对你态度没有太大质疑了,不过我个人就比较喜欢就问题讨论问题
: 当然我讨论问题方式态度也有待改善,哈
:
: and
|
|
