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T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 1 http://evelynrodriguez.typepad.com/pointingtothemoon/2007/02/by
Above is a description on how she got her knowledge, and she experienced that no-me and no-name feeling.
I like that whole blog, and I will zz the full blog below.
The four questions are actually only one question "is it true?", as no thought is true. But for people not yet there, such as me, choosing the truer thought is a re-entry into this world. She said it so well.
====================================================================
Her website is here:
The very simple approach, The Work:
http://thework.com/thework-4questions.php
Some workshop videos:
http://www.thework.com/watch.php
====================================================================
Byron Katie's Awakening
Less than two weeks after I entered the halfway house, my life changed completely. What follows is a very approximate account.
One morning I woke up. I had been sleeping on the floor as usual. Nothing special had happened the night before; I just opened my eyes. But I was seeing without concepts, without thoughts or an internal story. There was no me. It was as if something else had woken up. It opened its eyes. It was looking through Katie's eyes. And it was crisp, it was clear, it was new, it had never been here before. Everything was unrecognizable. And it was so delighted! Laughter welled up from the depths and just poured out. It breathed and was ecstasy. It was intoxicated with joy: totally greedy for everything. There was nothing separate, nothing unacceptable to it. Everything was its very own self. For the first time I — it — experienced the love of its own life. I — it —was amazed!
In trying to be as accurate as possible, I am using the word “it” for this delighted, loving awareness, in which there was no me or world, and in which everything was included. There just isn't another way to say how completely new and fresh the awareness was. There was no I observing the “it.” There was nothing but the “it.” And even the realization of an “it” came later.
Let me say this in a different way. A foot appeared; there was a cockroach crawling over it. It opened its eyes, and there was something on the foot; or there was something on the foot, and then it opened its eyes — I don't know the sequence, because there was no time in any of this. So, to put it in slow motion: it opened its eyes, looked down at the foot, a cockroach was crawling across the ankle, and … it was awake! It was born. And from then on, it's been observing. But there wasn't a subject or an object. It was — is — everything it saw. There's no separation in it, anywhere.
All my rage, all the thoughts that had been troubling me, my whole world, the whole world, was gone. The only thing that existed was awareness. The foot and the cockroach weren't outside me; there was no outside or inside. It was all me. And I felt delight — absolute delight! There was nothing, and there was a whole world: walls and floor and ceiling and light and body, everything, in such fullness. But only what it could see: no more, no less.
Then it stood up, and that was amazing. There was no thinking, no plan. It just stood up and walked to the bathroom. It walked straight to a mirror, and it locked onto the eyes of its own reflection, and it understood. And that was even deeper than the delight it had known before. It fell in love with that being in the mirror. It was as if the woman and the awareness of the woman had permanently merged. There were only the eyes, and a sense of absolute vastness, with no knowledge in it. It was as if I — she — had been shot through with electricity. It was like God giving itself life through the body of the woman — God so loving and bright, so vast — and yet she knew that it was herself. It made such a deep connection with her eyes. There was no meaning to it, just a nameless recognition that consumed her.
Love is the best word I can find for it. It had been split apart, and now it was joined. There was it moving, and then it in the mirror, and then it joined as quickly as it had separated — it was all eyes. The eyes in the mirror were the eyes of it. And it gave itself back again , as it met again. And that gave it its identity, which I call love. As it looked in the mirror, the eyes — the depth of them— were all that was real, all that existed — prior to that, nothing. No eyes, no anything; even standing there, there was nothing. And then the eyes come out to give it what it is. People name things a wall, a ceiling, a foot, a hand. But it had no name for these things, because it's indivisible. And it's invisible. Until the eyes. Until the eyes. I remember tears of gratitude pouring down the cheeks as it looked at its own reflection. It stood there staring for I don't know how long.
These were the first moments after I was born as it, or it as me. There was nothing left of Katie. There was literally not even a shred of memory of her — no past, no future, not even a present. And in that openness, such joy. “There's nothing sweeter than this,” I felt; “there is nothing but this. If you loved yourself more than anything you could imagine, you would give yourself this. A face. A hand. Breath. But that's not enough. A wall. A ceiling. A window. A bed. Light bulbs. Ooh! And this too! And this too! And this too!”
All this took place beyond time. But when I put it into language, I have to backtrack and fill in. While I was lying on the floor, I understood that when I was asleep, prior to cockroach or foot, prior to any thoughts, prior to any world, there is nothing. In that instant, the four questions of The Work were born. I understood that no thought is true. The whole of inquiry was already present in that understanding. It was like closing a gate and hearing it click shut. It wasn't I who woke up: inquiry woke up. The two polarities, the left and right of things, the something/nothing of it all, woke up. Both sides were equal. I understood this in that first instant of no-time .
So to say it again: As I was lying there in the awareness, as the awareness, the thought arose: It's a foot. And immediately I saw that it wasn't true, and that was the delight of it. I saw that it was all backward. It's not a foot; it's not a cockroach. It wasn't true, and yet there was a foot, there was a cockroach. It opened its eyes and saw a foot, and a cockroach crawling over the foot. But there was no name for these things. There were no separate words for foot or cockroach or wall or any of it. So it was looking at its entire body, looking at itself, with no name. Nothing was separate from it, nothing was outside it, it was all pulsing with life and delight, and it was all one unbroken experience. To separate that wholeness and see anything as outside itself, wasn't true. The foot existed, yet it wasn't a separate thing, and to call it a “foot,” or an anything, felt like a lie. It was absurd. And the laughter kept pouring out of me. I saw that cockroach and foot are names for joy, that there are no names for what appears as real now. This was the birth of awareness: thought reflecting back as itself, seeing itself as everything, surrounded by the vast ocean of its own laughter.
When I try to explain how The Work was born in that instant of realization, I can analyze the instant, slow it down, and tell it so that it takes on time. But this is giving time to an instant that wasn't even an instant. In that no-time, everything was known and seen as nothing. It saw a foot, and it knew that it wasn't a foot, and it loved that it was. The first and second of the four questions is like the slow-motion mechanics of the experience. “It's a foot” — is that true? Can I absolutely know that it's true? No. What was it like before the thought of “foot” appeared, before there was the world of “foot”? Nothing.
Then the third question: How do I react when I believe the thought? I was aware that there's always a contraction, that when I believe any thought I create a world separate from myself, an object that is apparently “out there,” and that the contraction is a form of suffering. And the fourth: Who would I be without that thought? I would be prior to thought, I would be — I am — peace, absolute joy. Then the turnaround: It's a foot / it's not a foot. Actually, all four questions were present in the first — Is it true? — and everything was already released in the instant that the first question was asked. The second, third, and fourth questions were embedded in the inquiry that was there in the experience. There were no words for any of the questions — they were not explicit, not thought, not experienced in time, but present as possibilities when I looked at my experience later and tried to make it available for people. With the fourth question the circle is complete. And then the turnaround is the grounding, the re-entry. There's nothing / there's something. And in that way people can be held without the terror of being nothing, without identity. The turnaround holds them until it's a comfortable place. And they realize that nowhere to go is really where they already are. | N*******n
发帖数: 348 | 2 I have to say it is a very beautiful description of her experience. But be
careful. I don't want to say her experience of awareness is not true. I want
to point out that without guidance of Buddhism theory and training, a mere
realization of the awareness is not enough to liberate. I went to her
website and did not see any mention of her teacher or lineage. She charges
very high fees for her event - easy to see her motivation here.
There are a lot of good Buddhism books and lot of good teachers out there.
To spend time on someone without clear lineage should be very careful.
Just a few words of caution. Hope you dont' get offended. | T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 3 Thank you very much! There's no offense. I understand.
You surely will not be the first nor the last person to ask her way of charging for her workshops. She has already provided all her materials on her website, for free, and there's no need to go to a workshop if you don't want to. I don't go there, anyway. If people are willing to pay to go to see her, then her workshops have values and she is charging for what is valued by this worldly standard. As I heard in an interview of her and her husband (Stephen Mitchell, the one who wrote a lot about Dao De Jing), her husband mentioned that she often gave away expensive gifts, even her wedding ring, but the one who received that gift later realized so and returned it to her.
Also, she is not a Buddhist. Like Ekhart Tolle, she also broke through when she hit the bottom low in her life. Neither of them belongs to any religion. Buddhism is a learning that Buddha shared with the world after he experienced nirvana (I use this word to give it a reference, but I don't know what it means exactly), and I don't know Buddhism enough to know whether Buddha's experience was similar to hers.
As I mentioned elsewhere, I don't believe in Hell and 六道轮回, and I don't want to be a Buddhist. Of course, in the end, everything does not matter, as everything is an illusion. But when I am not there yet, and if I need to think in certain way, I choose not to be a Buddhist.
Well, I welcome more answers to my doubts about Buddhism, and I believe that there should be people who have valuable personal experiences to share about those.
【在 N*******n 的大作中提到】
: I have to say it is a very beautiful description of her experience. But be
: careful. I don't want to say her experience of awareness is not true. I want
: to point out that without guidance of Buddhism theory and training, a mere
: realization of the awareness is not enough to liberate. I went to her
: website and did not see any mention of her teacher or lineage. She charges
: very high fees for her event - easy to see her motivation here.
: There are a lot of good Buddhism books and lot of good teachers out there.
: To spend time on someone without clear lineage should be very careful.
: Just a few words of caution. Hope you dont' get offended.
| N*******n
发帖数: 348 | 4 六道轮回并不是佛法的核心.佛法是智慧的心法.不信六道轮回也可以从佛法里获得解脱
的智慧.
【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: Thank you very much! There's no offense. I understand.
: You surely will not be the first nor the last person to ask her way of charging for her workshops. She has already provided all her materials on her website, for free, and there's no need to go to a workshop if you don't want to. I don't go there, anyway. If people are willing to pay to go to see her, then her workshops have values and she is charging for what is valued by this worldly standard. As I heard in an interview of her and her husband (Stephen Mitchell, the one who wrote a lot about Dao De Jing), her husband mentioned that she often gave away expensive gifts, even her wedding ring, but the one who received that gift later realized so and returned it to her.
: Also, she is not a Buddhist. Like Ekhart Tolle, she also broke through when she hit the bottom low in her life. Neither of them belongs to any religion. Buddhism is a learning that Buddha shared with the world after he experienced nirvana (I use this word to give it a reference, but I don't know what it means exactly), and I don't know Buddhism enough to know whether Buddha's experience was similar to hers.
: As I mentioned elsewhere, I don't believe in Hell and 六道轮回, and I don't want to be a Buddhist. Of course, in the end, everything does not matter, as everything is an illusion. But when I am not there yet, and if I need to think in certain way, I choose not to be a Buddhist.
: Well, I welcome more answers to my doubts about Buddhism, and I believe that there should be people who have valuable personal experiences to share about those.
| s********h
发帖数: 938 | 5 同意。其实轮回也不难理解：水可以有冰水汽三种形态，心大致分为六种当然是可能的。
记得有人说，六道现成就可以体会，放在一个群体中也可以体会。
现成的是：帮了别人快乐，就是天。愤怒就是阿修罗，吝啬就是饿鬼，怨恨就是地狱，
无知就是动物，中不溜就是人。
一个群体中，富有而快乐的是天，贫苦而低微的就是地狱，流氓黑社会就是阿修罗，等
等。
基本上就是六种差别。可以有形，也可以无形。
gifts, even her wedding ring, but the one who received that gift later
realized so and returned it to her.
【在 N*******n 的大作中提到】
: 六道轮回并不是佛法的核心.佛法是智慧的心法.不信六道轮回也可以从佛法里获得解脱
: 的智慧.
| T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 6 I agree with this "不信六道轮回也可以从佛法里获得解脱的智慧. " as I have
learned a lot in reading stuff just about meditation.
It's good to know that "六道轮回并不是佛法的核心", but why is it there?
脱的智慧.
【在 N*******n 的大作中提到】
: 六道轮回并不是佛法的核心.佛法是智慧的心法.不信六道轮回也可以从佛法里获得解脱
: 的智慧.
| s********h
发帖数: 938 | 7 就好象牛顿发现了万有引力一样。佛只是发现了这个规律，并不是佛创造了这个理论。
【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: I agree with this "不信六道轮回也可以从佛法里获得解脱的智慧. " as I have
: learned a lot in reading stuff just about meditation.
: It's good to know that "六道轮回并不是佛法的核心", but why is it there?
:
: 脱的智慧.
| l*****g
发帖数: 2311 | 8
的。
嗯，这是对轮回比较粗浅粗糙的理解。
【在 s********h 的大作中提到】
: 同意。其实轮回也不难理解：水可以有冰水汽三种形态，心大致分为六种当然是可能的。
: 记得有人说，六道现成就可以体会，放在一个群体中也可以体会。
: 现成的是：帮了别人快乐，就是天。愤怒就是阿修罗，吝啬就是饿鬼，怨恨就是地狱，
: 无知就是动物，中不溜就是人。
: 一个群体中，富有而快乐的是天，贫苦而低微的就是地狱，流氓黑社会就是阿修罗，等
: 等。
: 基本上就是六种差别。可以有形，也可以无形。
:
: gifts, even her wedding ring, but the one who received that gift later
: realized so and returned it to her.
| J******s
发帖数: 7538 | 9 re
gifts, even her wedding ring, but the one who received that gift later
realized so and returned it to her.
【在 N*******n 的大作中提到】
: 六道轮回并不是佛法的核心.佛法是智慧的心法.不信六道轮回也可以从佛法里获得解脱
: 的智慧.
| Y**u
发帖数: 5466 | 10 好像一个人的眼睛有了眼病，经常会看到一些幻影。 不能说没有这些幻影，对这个人
来说，的确是看到了。 但也不能说真的有，因为那是他的眼睛又病。
六道轮回是一个道理。 不能有说，因为毕竟幻化。 也不能说没有，因为众生的确有
病。 所以说有事因为有众生的缘故，说没有是因为毕竟没有。。
【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: I agree with this "不信六道轮回也可以从佛法里获得解脱的智慧. " as I have
: learned a lot in reading stuff just about meditation.
: It's good to know that "六道轮回并不是佛法的核心", but why is it there?
:
: 脱的智慧.
| | | l*****g
发帖数: 2311 | 11
你有病啊。
【在 Y**u 的大作中提到】
: 好像一个人的眼睛有了眼病，经常会看到一些幻影。 不能说没有这些幻影，对这个人
: 来说，的确是看到了。 但也不能说真的有，因为那是他的眼睛又病。
: 六道轮回是一个道理。 不能有说，因为毕竟幻化。 也不能说没有，因为众生的确有
: 病。 所以说有事因为有众生的缘故，说没有是因为毕竟没有。。
| T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 12 Thank you!
I agree with 轮回 as human beings, but not in all the 六道. In the broader
sense, of course, as you've described below, actually everything is together
, is the ONE, and there's no division. However, just for the consciousness
that we can use to communicate right now, or the soul, I think that it
exists only as humans.
In Past Life Regressions and other psychic experiences, people remember
their past lives as human beings, but nothing else. If you could say that
other things don't remember, that's fine, but if those memories don't count
into the human's consciousness, they don't need to be counted in, nor is it
provable to be either there or not.
的。
【在 s********h 的大作中提到】
: 同意。其实轮回也不难理解：水可以有冰水汽三种形态，心大致分为六种当然是可能的。
: 记得有人说，六道现成就可以体会，放在一个群体中也可以体会。
: 现成的是：帮了别人快乐，就是天。愤怒就是阿修罗，吝啬就是饿鬼，怨恨就是地狱，
: 无知就是动物，中不溜就是人。
: 一个群体中，富有而快乐的是天，贫苦而低微的就是地狱，流氓黑社会就是阿修罗，等
: 等。
: 基本上就是六种差别。可以有形，也可以无形。
:
: gifts, even her wedding ring, but the one who received that gift later
: realized so and returned it to her.
| T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 13 I agree that the rule is there, all we do is to discover it.
I am asking whether what Buddha discovered as 六道 was truly there or not,
in the perception level, not at the ultimate level. As in the ultimate
level, it's that emptiness and fullness together.
【在 s********h 的大作中提到】
: 就好象牛顿发现了万有引力一样。佛只是发现了这个规律，并不是佛创造了这个理论。
| Y**u
发帖数: 5466 | 14 维摩诘言。从痴有爱则我病生。以一切众生病是故我病。
【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 你有病啊。
| T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 15 This is what makes the best sense to me.
The thing is if the ultimate level is that emptiness, it does not matter
whether this 六道 is there or not, as somebody may see it if they believe so
, but others don't see it.
So for whatever purpose, there's no need to advertise this as a motivation
to make people do good deeds, not out of pure love, but out of avoidance of
consequences.
【在 Y**u 的大作中提到】
: 好像一个人的眼睛有了眼病，经常会看到一些幻影。 不能说没有这些幻影，对这个人
: 来说，的确是看到了。 但也不能说真的有，因为那是他的眼睛又病。
: 六道轮回是一个道理。 不能有说，因为毕竟幻化。 也不能说没有，因为众生的确有
: 病。 所以说有事因为有众生的缘故，说没有是因为毕竟没有。。
| l*****g
发帖数: 2311 | 16
女大师好。
【在 Y**u 的大作中提到】
: 维摩诘言。从痴有爱则我病生。以一切众生病是故我病。
| Y**u
发帖数: 5466 | 17 哈，你又误解了啊。。。看里面的“一切众生病”
【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 女大师好。
| l*****g
发帖数: 2311 | 18
根本就没误解。
只是很少有正常人会真的认为自己有病。反正别说我有病。
人身珍贵啊，这才是我爱听地。
这样的病话，waichi讲我可以接受，毕竟人家修而离病。也知道到底是啥病。
别没事腰疼了。
【在 Y**u 的大作中提到】
: 哈，你又误解了啊。。。看里面的“一切众生病”
| Y**u
发帖数: 5466 | 19 哦，是不高兴被说有病啊。。：）
那我问你，你打坐，念佛是为了什么？
【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 根本就没误解。
: 只是很少有正常人会真的认为自己有病。反正别说我有病。
: 人身珍贵啊，这才是我爱听地。
: 这样的病话，waichi讲我可以接受，毕竟人家修而离病。也知道到底是啥病。
: 别没事腰疼了。
| l*****g
发帖数: 2311 | 20
你是罪人。我无辜。
我为好玩。
【在 Y**u 的大作中提到】
: 哦，是不高兴被说有病啊。。：）
: 那我问你，你打坐，念佛是为了什么？
| | | Y**u
发帖数: 5466 | 21 女大师好。
【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 你是罪人。我无辜。
: 我为好玩。
| l*****g
发帖数: 2311 | 22
鹦鹉好。
【在 Y**u 的大作中提到】
: 女大师好。
| Y**u
发帖数: 5466 | 23 鹦鹉向大师问好。。 今天玩了几个坐？ ：）怎么火气还这么大？
【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 鹦鹉好。
| l*****g
发帖数: 2311 | 24
鹦鹉就是鹦鹉，看不见人心。谁在上火阿，让我看看。
今天玩了两坐。
【在 Y**u 的大作中提到】
: 鹦鹉向大师问好。。 今天玩了几个坐？ ：）怎么火气还这么大？
| Y**u
发帖数: 5466 | 25 鹦鹉是可以看见人心的，只是看不见大师心。 因为大师心不是众生心。 众生有病，而
大师是没有病，也没有罪的。。。
【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 鹦鹉就是鹦鹉，看不见人心。谁在上火阿，让我看看。
: 今天玩了两坐。
| l*****g
发帖数: 2311 | 26
说点认真地。除了听别人/神/佛/菩萨等说人有病，你真的就认为自己有病？咋知道的？
【在 Y**u 的大作中提到】
: 鹦鹉是可以看见人心的，只是看不见大师心。 因为大师心不是众生心。 众生有病，而
: 大师是没有病，也没有罪的。。。
| Y**u
发帖数: 5466 | 27 病是寓意， 无明是也。 你有没有呢？
的？
【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 说点认真地。除了听别人/神/佛/菩萨等说人有病，你真的就认为自己有病？咋知道的？
| b**d
发帖数: 7644 | 28 俺的确是觉得人人都有病，包括俺在内。射雕里面都讲啦，衰老和死亡就是疾病。 其
实人大部分的疾病是衰老引起的。癌症其实是衰老的表现形式之一。建议你读读那段。
我来稍微科普一下。
DNA复制次数必须有限，否则细胞就可以无限制繁殖，但是DNA复制次数的有限性又造成
了细胞不能永久新陈代谢（死了以后就没新的啦）。 basicly, 人不是细胞死光了死，
就是细胞变异成DNA复制次数不受限制的癌细胞死。人的寿命其实是这两个相互制约过
程的一个balance决定的。
从科学上治疗死亡这个疾病，目前难度很大，但是很多人在做尝试。
的？
【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 说点认真地。除了听别人/神/佛/菩萨等说人有病，你真的就认为自己有病？咋知道的？
| n*****a
发帖数: 265 | 29 前两天看到个似乎是BBC的文章讲有新的研究可能有助于提高人的寿命至几百岁。
具体内容忘了，刚才也没找到。不过找着了另一篇，也蛮有意思。
http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/12733853
龙虾的平均寿命竟然有100岁，还有平均500岁的深海牡蛎、平均8万岁的北美白杨、和
某种不死的水母。
【在 b**d 的大作中提到】
: 俺的确是觉得人人都有病，包括俺在内。射雕里面都讲啦，衰老和死亡就是疾病。 其
: 实人大部分的疾病是衰老引起的。癌症其实是衰老的表现形式之一。建议你读读那段。
: 我来稍微科普一下。
: DNA复制次数必须有限，否则细胞就可以无限制繁殖，但是DNA复制次数的有限性又造成
: 了细胞不能永久新陈代谢（死了以后就没新的啦）。 basicly, 人不是细胞死光了死，
: 就是细胞变异成DNA复制次数不受限制的癌细胞死。人的寿命其实是这两个相互制约过
: 程的一个balance决定的。
: 从科学上治疗死亡这个疾病，目前难度很大，但是很多人在做尝试。
:
: 的？
| l*****g
发帖数: 2311 | 30
先答完我我再告诉你。啥是你的无明病？你为啥认为佛说你无明是对的？
【在 Y**u 的大作中提到】
: 病是寓意， 无明是也。 你有没有呢？
:
: 的？
| | | l*****g
发帖数: 2311 | 31
噢。难怪你要寻常生。应该有可能。
【在 b**d 的大作中提到】
: 俺的确是觉得人人都有病，包括俺在内。射雕里面都讲啦，衰老和死亡就是疾病。 其
: 实人大部分的疾病是衰老引起的。癌症其实是衰老的表现形式之一。建议你读读那段。
: 我来稍微科普一下。
: DNA复制次数必须有限，否则细胞就可以无限制繁殖，但是DNA复制次数的有限性又造成
: 了细胞不能永久新陈代谢（死了以后就没新的啦）。 basicly, 人不是细胞死光了死，
: 就是细胞变异成DNA复制次数不受限制的癌细胞死。人的寿命其实是这两个相互制约过
: 程的一个balance决定的。
: 从科学上治疗死亡这个疾病，目前难度很大，但是很多人在做尝试。
:
: 的？
| Y**u
发帖数: 5466 | 32 哈，不必了，你的问题和回答已经告诉了一切。 你要是没病，谁说你也不能给你说出
病来，你要是有病，谁再恭维你你也好不了。 佛教是自信的，但不是自大的， 你要
是觉得你没病，你就没病吧。 I am okay with that. :)
【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 噢。难怪你要寻常生。应该有可能。
| l*****g
发帖数: 2311 | 33
who cares.
【在 Y**u 的大作中提到】
: 哈，不必了，你的问题和回答已经告诉了一切。 你要是没病，谁说你也不能给你说出
: 病来，你要是有病，谁再恭维你你也好不了。 佛教是自信的，但不是自大的， 你要
: 是觉得你没病，你就没病吧。 I am okay with that. :)
| T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 34 What you and bdbd said is very interesting. uhn.
I have never really thought about it before, but I don't seem to mind how
long I live. How long do you all want to live, if you can make it happen?
【在 n*****a 的大作中提到】
: 前两天看到个似乎是BBC的文章讲有新的研究可能有助于提高人的寿命至几百岁。
: 具体内容忘了，刚才也没找到。不过找着了另一篇，也蛮有意思。
: http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/12733853
: 龙虾的平均寿命竟然有100岁，还有平均500岁的深海牡蛎、平均8万岁的北美白杨、和
: 某种不死的水母。
| Y**u
发帖数: 5466 | 35 If you read look back the posts and see who started it at the personal level
, then you know who does..:)
【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: who cares.
| J******s
发帖数: 7538 | 36 To be frank 六道 is not the core of Buddhism.
The core of Buddhism is 四圣谛 (苦集灭道).
【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: I agree that the rule is there, all we do is to discover it.
: I am asking whether what Buddha discovered as 六道 was truly there or not,
: in the perception level, not at the ultimate level. As in the ultimate
: level, it's that emptiness and fullness together.
| J******s
发帖数: 7538 | 37 During my study of Buddhism, I have never seen that anyone
advertises 六道 as the motivation to make people do good deeds.
so
of
【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: This is what makes the best sense to me.
: The thing is if the ultimate level is that emptiness, it does not matter
: whether this 六道 is there or not, as somebody may see it if they believe so
: , but others don't see it.
: So for whatever purpose, there's no need to advertise this as a motivation
: to make people do good deeds, not out of pure love, but out of avoidance of
: consequences.
| J******s
发帖数: 7538 | 38 Samsara is quite important for the understanding of Buddhism, not 六道.
六道 is not the emphasis.
It is just a part of Buddhism theory system, like any knowledge system.
【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: I agree with this "不信六道轮回也可以从佛法里获得解脱的智慧. " as I have
: learned a lot in reading stuff just about meditation.
: It's good to know that "六道轮回并不是佛法的核心", but why is it there?
:
: 脱的智慧.
| T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 39 Hi, JeanIris:
I have never said that 六道 is the emphasis or the core of Buddhism, I am
just asking why it's included in Buddhism.
By "It is just a part of Buddhism theory system, like any knowledge
system", do you mean that Buddhism has developed over so many years, so
maybe there is something not accurate, etc, and the Buddha himself might
not mean to include it? If not, what do you mean by that?
Also, how do you define Samsara? The wiki link of it still mentions that
"If one lives in extremely evil ways, one may be reborn as an animal or
other unfortunate being". That's why I find this notion of 六道 is
unavoidable in Buddhism.
As to people's motivation to do some good deeds such as not to kill, be
a vegetarian, or provide food to the homeless people, etc, if it's not
your experience, it's the common saying that people who do so are less
likely to be reincarnated as animals, right? Do people do so out of born
kindness, or out of pursuits of a better reincarnation? Only they
themselves would know.
Well, as many IDs have already said the same that 六道 is not the core,
this question on its meaning may not matter that much as of now, but any
more thought on that is still welcome.
Lastly, may I know how you interpret 四圣谛 (苦集灭道) in your own words or
experiences? Those four words or other readings of their definitions
don't help me much to understand what they really mean. | J******s
发帖数: 7538 | 40 TrueStory,
I did not say that you said 'six realms' is the core of Buddhism. What I was
saying is if you really want to understand or take the meaningful points in
Buddhism theory, focusing on whether there are 'six realms' is not a good
way. Because now you can neither prove this theory is right nor wrong by
your own experiences. We can read the book about others' experiences, but
for me they are like stories, and I won't take them so seriously.
I do not know why it (six realms) is included in Buddhism theory, but I know
why Samsara is included. Because the arising and passing away of the five
aggregates is the essence of Samsara, which is also the basis for Dukkha (苦
). And I do think if you really want to know why it (six realms) is included
in Buddhism theory, the best way is to do research by yourself. :-)
Samsara is 五蕴生灭.
The theory of pāramitās is much better compared with six realms to make
people do good deeds. There can be different motivations as to do good deeds
, for me I just want to pursue wholesomeness. I do not care so much how
others think, but for me I never do good deeds to avoid reincarnating in a
lower realm.
There are quite clear explanations of 四圣谛 (苦集灭道).
If you want me to explain it with my own experiences, what I can say is I
can really feel that the happening of five aggregates is irresistible, no
matter I like it or not it comes in some way uncontrollable. Even
pleasant and unpleasant feelings are uncontrollable when they are
happening.
For example, when my bf was saying sth I did not like, some uncomfortable
feeling will arise, which can make me feel very cold physically and my heart
can feel that. Even I knew he really loves me, and he was not intended to
say so. What I tried to decipher from his sentences was not his initial
meaning.I can not resist this kind of unpleasant feeling at that moment.
Although we made up afterwards quite soon, dukkha was there and it happened
without control.
So I really agree it is 苦.
I do not like this kind of feeling, so I want 苦灭.
:-) | | | T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 41 Thanks a lot, JeanIris!
I agree that asking this question here is a short-cut, which may not give me
the complete answer. Well, I am glad for what I have heard so far, and I
can leave it open for now.
It's good to know this word pāramitās, it's translated as 波罗密 ah. I
thought that the Jackfruit was called that name (波罗蜜, one word difference
), and I thought that maybe people were joking about something earlier. LOL.
Also, thanks for sharing your experiences, that's why I think that a
romantic relationship is the best vehicle for one's practice, as it brings
out the most inner self.
I'd say a bit more on this topic. Sometimes the conflicts feel like a fight
between contradicting ideas all at the conscious level.
For instance, one may get hurt when hearing something, and yet he does not
think that he should feel that way, but rather he'd think that he should
take the high road and let it go. However, the hurt feeling does not go. Why?
Because all feelings are just what they are, and they can't be reasoned away
, denied, bargained with, or buried away. They can only be released after
they are fully felt. Such release has to be done at the subconscious level
as well.
There's a book "The One Thing Holding You Back: Unleashing the Power of
Emotional Connection" by Raphael Cushnir, which is very good to talk about
how to feel one's emotion fully to release its energy. He called this
approach "2 by 2", and he's been helping many patients.
I find The Work to be compatible or have a similar motive to Raphael's
approach though. In The Work, the first step is to write out all the hurt
feelings without any reservation or any kindness, don't try to be a nice
person then, this step effectively draws out all the hidden hurt feelings,
instead of pushing them away. Then after experiencing them all, the turn-
around thoughts bring out the clarity of the reality, and it's a very
delightful place to be in.
Meditation would also help. | f*******8
发帖数: 3612 | 42 我插句嘴，呵呵。
其实你推介并擅长的很多东西都是很不错的。
如果跟佛法名词对应的话，心理学的内容属于调节受蕴、想蕴和行蕴。
观察自己的各种感受，feeling. 受蕴， 喜怒哀乐忧悲恐。
以及自己的各种善恶动机和冲动，行蕴。贪嗔痴，和精进，不懈怠，不贪不嗔。
如果要区分的话，我觉得佛法讲究的是破5蕴，
而心理学讲究的是日常使用5蕴的种种变化。比如各种情绪、感觉的调节，fine tune.
我个人的特点是以前强调破蕴的多，而在应用、使用上较少训练。
最近几年注意力往这方面转移了不少。对善行和觉受方面也有所认识。
渐渐意识到，希望过一个平衡的生活。
个人体会，真要学佛法的话，总要有个打破平衡的时期，然后才能建立新的平衡。
中间突破平衡时，比较难以把握。
me
difference
LOL.
fight
Why?
away
【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: Thanks a lot, JeanIris!
: I agree that asking this question here is a short-cut, which may not give me
: the complete answer. Well, I am glad for what I have heard so far, and I
: can leave it open for now.
: It's good to know this word pāramitās, it's translated as 波罗密 ah. I
: thought that the Jackfruit was called that name (波罗蜜, one word difference
: ), and I thought that maybe people were joking about something earlier. LOL.
: Also, thanks for sharing your experiences, that's why I think that a
: romantic relationship is the best vehicle for one's practice, as it brings
: out the most inner self.
| T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 43 en. I see.
To continue your comments on the effects of these things, I'd say that they
do seem mechanical at first, as they introduce some procedures for people to
follow. Well, after a while, or perhaps a long while, no procedure is
needed any more, especially for The Work, which feels like an automatic 破5
蕴. I don't know to what extent it compares with the 破5蕴 you mean though.
I think that the reasons for The Work to work automatically are two folded.
1. The buried complexes (a Jungian term, meaning the core patterns of each
person in the subconscious) are released to a great extent and they don't
produce new hurts to pile upon the old wounds. 2. With strengthened
attention to discern the falsehood of thoughts, one can easily break free
from them even if thoughts arise.
I like those methods as they provide a handle on the "how". Once its essence
is learned by heart, its form is not needed any more.
【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
: 我插句嘴，呵呵。
: 其实你推介并擅长的很多东西都是很不错的。
: 如果跟佛法名词对应的话，心理学的内容属于调节受蕴、想蕴和行蕴。
: 观察自己的各种感受，feeling. 受蕴， 喜怒哀乐忧悲恐。
: 以及自己的各种善恶动机和冲动，行蕴。贪嗔痴，和精进，不懈怠，不贪不嗔。
: 如果要区分的话，我觉得佛法讲究的是破5蕴，
: 而心理学讲究的是日常使用5蕴的种种变化。比如各种情绪、感觉的调节，fine tune.
: 我个人的特点是以前强调破蕴的多，而在应用、使用上较少训练。
: 最近几年注意力往这方面转移了不少。对善行和觉受方面也有所认识。
: 渐渐意识到，希望过一个平衡的生活。
| f*******8
发帖数: 3612 | 44
they
to
5
我个人体会用个不一定十分恰当的比喻（因为5蕴完全灭除的样子我还不是很清楚）是：
5蕴好像我们的车，或者紧身衣，我们每天都跟它在一起，没有须臾分离，
所以它坏了，我们就认定我坏了，它好了，我们就认定我好了。
别人要破坏车，我们就会认定我受伤。
车要死不工作了，我们会认定自己死了。
所以任何对车的损害，都会引起我们的恐惧，因为我们分不清车坏了还是人坏了，
车死了还是人死了。
心理学的技术就是去发展各种技巧来训练这个紧身衣，维护这个紧身衣，
以及如何更好地使用这个紧身衣。以期达到运用自如，生活中的高手。
而佛法的根本在于让人认识此紧身衣不是你，它坏了你也不必害怕，不必恐惧。
而佛法的实践是，让你确实找到方法，真正地脱离紧身衣。从而彻底消除恐惧。
这是根本差别。
但是能脱离紧身衣，不是说不可以用它，不可以享受它，还是可以用，
而且你更多了一个脱离开它的角度，更容易维护它。
这是我的个人理解。不能完全等同于5蕴灭尽，那个是我没经历的。
而且，是否真的能出离，也要自己对自己负责，所为的未证言证，
就是指，一个人分明没有能力脱离紧身衣，而自称能够脱离，
结果到危险关头，（不要说死亡的过程了），黑盒实验，就只好自己害自己了。
---------------------------------------------------------
我的问题是，别人在这里乱扣“外道”的帽子，我心里不忿，不过想想也是自己的问题。
贯彻一下那个逻辑：
我如果自己修行不到家，即使我把别人的说法都批了一下，也不能代表我就修好了。
而事实上是，我现在发现确实还是修得不行。
所以以后要收声。尽量收声少说，让给别人说吧。
我很希望有更适合我的环境和平台。也许这只有我们自己的修行团体了。
.
essence
tune.
【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: en. I see.
: To continue your comments on the effects of these things, I'd say that they
: do seem mechanical at first, as they introduce some procedures for people to
: follow. Well, after a while, or perhaps a long while, no procedure is
: needed any more, especially for The Work, which feels like an automatic 破5
: 蕴. I don't know to what extent it compares with the 破5蕴 you mean though.
: I think that the reasons for The Work to work automatically are two folded.
: 1. The buried complexes (a Jungian term, meaning the core patterns of each
: person in the subconscious) are released to a great extent and they don't
: produce new hurts to pile upon the old wounds. 2. With strengthened
| l*****g
发帖数: 2311 | 45
是：
你不是要找平衡，不是说以前太过了。
咋，有一点风吹草动你就受不了，
说你外道又咋，少头发还是掉耳朵了，就要缩回乌龟壳里去阿。
缩回小家庭，就解决你的问题了？
哼。整个一个被境转。
你就不能大度点，别那末小家子气。淡然，超然。
你得跟我偶象好好学学。
就是你师也是红尘中滚。
【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
:
: they
: to
: 5
: 我个人体会用个不一定十分恰当的比喻（因为5蕴完全灭除的样子我还不是很清楚）是：
: 5蕴好像我们的车，或者紧身衣，我们每天都跟它在一起，没有须臾分离，
: 所以它坏了，我们就认定我坏了，它好了，我们就认定我好了。
: 别人要破坏车，我们就会认定我受伤。
: 车要死不工作了，我们会认定自己死了。
: 所以任何对车的损害，都会引起我们的恐惧，因为我们分不清车坏了还是人坏了，
| f*******8
发帖数: 3612 | 46
我说的平衡是指时间出世间都兼顾的，更上一层楼的。
更不是放弃实修为代价的。
你完全误解了，
在这里说，是要对自己别人都好的情况下来说的，
不避世间法，不是只知道世间法。
更不是放弃进步而在泥地里躺着就算是修行。
连基本的禅定都做不到，反而认为在泥坑里打滚能进步，这是邪见，非因记因。
人还是要选择合适自己的平台的，这是负责任。
【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 是：
: 你不是要找平衡，不是说以前太过了。
: 咋，有一点风吹草动你就受不了，
: 说你外道又咋，少头发还是掉耳朵了，就要缩回乌龟壳里去阿。
: 缩回小家庭，就解决你的问题了？
: 哼。整个一个被境转。
: 你就不能大度点，别那末小家子气。淡然，超然。
: 你得跟我偶象好好学学。
: 就是你师也是红尘中滚。
| l*****g
发帖数: 2311 | 47
去吧。胆小鬼，找借口的胆小鬼。闭着眼的胆小鬼。
【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
:
: 我说的平衡是指时间出世间都兼顾的，更上一层楼的。
: 更不是放弃实修为代价的。
: 你完全误解了，
: 在这里说，是要对自己别人都好的情况下来说的，
: 不避世间法，不是只知道世间法。
: 更不是放弃进步而在泥地里躺着就算是修行。
: 连基本的禅定都做不到，反而认为在泥坑里打滚能进步，这是邪见，非因记因。
: 人还是要选择合适自己的平台的，这是负责任。
| f*******8
发帖数: 3612 | 48
你是完全错了。
我有时候看着你的解释，看到那些回避，都心里发抖。
因为你实际上是在躲避，不敢看自己。
【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 去吧。胆小鬼，找借口的胆小鬼。闭着眼的胆小鬼。
| N*******n
发帖数: 348 | 49 你偶象是谁?
【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 去吧。胆小鬼，找借口的胆小鬼。闭着眼的胆小鬼。
| l*****g
发帖数: 2311 | 50
劳驾，为了我好，请你具体指出来哪里回避，哪里躲避，哪里不敢看自己。
【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
:
: 你是完全错了。
: 我有时候看着你的解释，看到那些回避，都心里发抖。
: 因为你实际上是在躲避，不敢看自己。
| | | l*****g
发帖数: 2311 | 51
waichi
【在 N*******n 的大作中提到】
: 你偶象是谁?
| f*******8
发帖数: 3612 | 52
上次你问我念佛号，如果跟着我们师父印心，
能否允许念你自己的佛号，类似的问题。
我当时听了心里吓了一跳。怎么会还有这种问题。
你声称把waichi当偶像这么多年，这种问题都没有问过？
一直都没解决？
我当时听了极度震惊，不知道该怎么回答。
现在也不回答了，况且本来我也不是代言人什么的。
【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: waichi
| l*****g
发帖数: 2311 | 53
我问过waichi，就在我第一次动心思想去你师处探访时，他回答说看你的师傅的要求了
。我连师傅都没见过，咋知道会是啥结果。
我看过网上的宣传材料，要求每天按要求做那两种法，可是我只想念佛。
我总不能印心时说我做不到要求，还指望通过阿。
我想如果我直接写信问你师，说不准她会同意。
可是我没那末上心，也就没做了。
后来，waichi说不来时，我想跟他套近乎，就又想去印心，
可是，我亲人不同意，我不想硬来，就放下了。
就这样。有那末可怕吗？
你师若是真，她肯定有办法帮我。
处处不在，处处在。她会体谅我的。
【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
:
: 上次你问我念佛号，如果跟着我们师父印心，
: 能否允许念你自己的佛号，类似的问题。
: 我当时听了心里吓了一跳。怎么会还有这种问题。
: 你声称把waichi当偶像这么多年，这种问题都没有问过？
: 一直都没解决？
: 我当时听了极度震惊，不知道该怎么回答。
: 现在也不回答了，况且本来我也不是代言人什么的。
| l*****g
发帖数: 2311 | 54
我对你师的兴趣，完全是因为waichi而起。
否则的话，我才懒得看呢。不要说外道，就是正道我也早就心凉。
不过，看过你师的讲话，故事后，倒是很喜欢。
她更现实，对我来讲，学她，似乎某种成度比向waichi学压力要小一点。
【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
:
: 上次你问我念佛号，如果跟着我们师父印心，
: 能否允许念你自己的佛号，类似的问题。
: 我当时听了心里吓了一跳。怎么会还有这种问题。
: 你声称把waichi当偶像这么多年，这种问题都没有问过？
: 一直都没解决？
: 我当时听了极度震惊，不知道该怎么回答。
: 现在也不回答了，况且本来我也不是代言人什么的。
| T*******x
发帖数: 8565 | 55 确实要少说。
1.你这篇说多了。
2.这里的环境也不适合。
是：
【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
:
: 上次你问我念佛号，如果跟着我们师父印心，
: 能否允许念你自己的佛号，类似的问题。
: 我当时听了心里吓了一跳。怎么会还有这种问题。
: 你声称把waichi当偶像这么多年，这种问题都没有问过？
: 一直都没解决？
: 我当时听了极度震惊，不知道该怎么回答。
: 现在也不回答了，况且本来我也不是代言人什么的。
| f*******8
发帖数: 3612 | 56
我多少是因为Truestory推介了几本书，心里觉得不错，也应该分享回馈一点。
可惜说话语气不是很好。
就我看这里还是不少人想接触佛法基础知识，我在这里老说这个不对，
那个不对。也不是很有益处。
每人在不同的阶段，应该有不同的平台。我应该找合适自己的平台。
这里暂时没有当年的场，留给人交流学习佛法知识也不错。
重要的还是解决自己的问题，有真实进步，否则高来高去，
真出个事，黑盒实验，自己还是受不了，以前的淡还不都是白扯了。
【在 T*******x 的大作中提到】
: 确实要少说。
: 1.你这篇说多了。
: 2.这里的环境也不适合。
:
: 是：
| J******s
发帖数: 7538 | 57 TrueStory,
No, I do not think on bbs we can get complete answers. But we can get some
more information, which might be quite helpful for us. And we can know a lot
of different and interesting IDs. :-)
What I was talking about of dukkha is not conflicts at the conscious level.
It is something (five aggregates) happening irresistible.
In my experiences, the bad feeling will go, sometimes quite fast.
It can not go just because we do not want to let it go. We are thinking
something conceptual to strengthen that feeling.
Agree, the feelings can not be denied, etc. We can only experience them,
just by keeping mindful. However, I do not agree such release has to be done
at the subconscious level, and it is conscious level in my opinion.
When we try to analyze or rethink the feelings in a retrospective way, it is
too late. We are analyzing some conceptual feelings, not the real feelings
themselves, because when they passed away, they will not be 'the feelings'
anymore, which is the reason why I do not accept the methods in 'The Work'.:
-) | J******s
发帖数: 7538 | 58 Freeman,
You do not need to emphasize on 破5蕴, keeping mindful is enough.
So simple, but so powerful. Either in daily life or in Vipassana meditation.
:-)
【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
: 我插句嘴，呵呵。
: 其实你推介并擅长的很多东西都是很不错的。
: 如果跟佛法名词对应的话，心理学的内容属于调节受蕴、想蕴和行蕴。
: 观察自己的各种感受，feeling. 受蕴， 喜怒哀乐忧悲恐。
: 以及自己的各种善恶动机和冲动，行蕴。贪嗔痴，和精进，不懈怠，不贪不嗔。
: 如果要区分的话，我觉得佛法讲究的是破5蕴，
: 而心理学讲究的是日常使用5蕴的种种变化。比如各种情绪、感觉的调节，fine tune.
: 我个人的特点是以前强调破蕴的多，而在应用、使用上较少训练。
: 最近几年注意力往这方面转移了不少。对善行和觉受方面也有所认识。
: 渐渐意识到，希望过一个平衡的生活。
| T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 59 I think I know the difference in our opinions now. It really looks like two
sides of a story.
I agree that the feelings are transient and either they are here, or they
are gone. Mindfulness surely happens here and now.
However, the feelings are easily drawn out by certain thoughts. For example,
when one replays a certain scene in mind, that scene does not happen here
right now, but just a thought about it makes one feel in the same old way,
and similarly, another turn-around thought about it makes one feel in
another way. Is the scene different? No, it's the thought that is different
to make one feel different. That is what is done at The Work. That feeling
and release happens at that instant when replaying the scene, not one moment
earlier, not one moment later.
With enough experience in The Work, the thoughts dissolve right at the
moment they appear, not one moment earlier, not one moment later.
Also, you totally disagree with the existence of subconscious, which I
disagree, but it's not my business, and I am fine with it. All theories are
ways to model the Truth, but not the Truth itself. If you find the Buddhism
enough for you, that's totally okay.
【在 J******s 的大作中提到】
: TrueStory,
: No, I do not think on bbs we can get complete answers. But we can get some
: more information, which might be quite helpful for us. And we can know a lot
: of different and interesting IDs. :-)
: What I was talking about of dukkha is not conflicts at the conscious level.
: It is something (five aggregates) happening irresistible.
: In my experiences, the bad feeling will go, sometimes quite fast.
: It can not go just because we do not want to let it go. We are thinking
: something conceptual to strengthen that feeling.
: Agree, the feelings can not be denied, etc. We can only experience them,
| J******s
发帖数: 7538 | 60 I noticed that some days ago. It is quite fine for me that we have different
preferences as I said, and we are just expressing our opinions here. :-)
Without training, mindfulness can not happen here and now. It is not so easy.
Yep, but please be careful when the feelings are drawn out by thoughts, they
are not the 'feelings' anymore.
No, when we are replaying a certain scene in mind, the scene is not
happening here right now, but the thought or the consciousness to generate
that scene is happening. It is also a kind of 'five aggregates'. How we feel
that depends on another thought or even more thoughts we add upon the
single thought (consciousness) generating that scene.
The scene is not different, but the thoughts we add upon make it different.
I do not like emphasizing on the word 'release'. What is happening is just
happening no matter it is a scene or a feeling.
The methods may work. Quite similar as being mindful, but to achieve being
mindful, right meditation is the best way.
No, I do agree there is subconsciousness, but not the one you mentioned.
Anyway this is an open question to me, and I will try to understand this
better.
I do agree all the theories are ways to model the Truth, but for me Buddhism
does this more throughly.
Again, I am just discussing sth under the topic, never try to persuade
anyone. | | | T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 61 Hi, JeanIris:
I noticed that you have a very strong opinion on what is right and what is
wrong. However, what you think as right may not be the only way.
"Without training, mindfulness can not happen here and now. It is not so
easy."
This is not so. Mindfulness is not something you can do it in the right way,
a thought on what is right and what is wrong is already not the mindfulness
. Mindfulness it total attention without any judgement.
"Yep, but please be careful when the feelings are drawn out by thoughts,
they are not the 'feelings' anymore."
There are surely the feelings. They are no longer the ones you experienced
when the scene happened, because those are gone, but they are feelings that
you are experiencing now when you think this thought. And if you don't
discern the falsehood of that thought, the same thought will happen again
and you will feel the same again, and you still think that it's the other
person or the scene that causes to you feel this way. No, it's not them, it'
s you and your thought.
"I do not like emphasizing on the word 'release'. What is happening is just
happening no matter it is a scene or a feeling."
What is released is the thought pattern and the buried emotional energy.
Emotions are energies stored down in the subconscious, and they are very
powerful to make one to do the things that he may not want to do consciously.
"I do agree all the theories are ways to model the Truth, but for me
Buddhism does this more thoroughly."
Buddhism surely has lots to offer, and you can follow it when you feel right
. Just be careful not to discard everything else as wrong if they are not
the same as what is written in the Buddhism Sutra. | J******s
发帖数: 7538 | 62 Totally agree, what I said was 'total attention without any judgement' not
so easy.
To be frank, I never think it is the other person or scene that causes me to
feel this way. I never have this kind of experience as you said here.
I prefer to think emotions are results of some karma, based on some
happenings originated from some reasons.
I am not discarding anything meaningful, and I am reading the book you
recommended. At least I am expressing my opinions based on comparison. | T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 63 Can you explain this more? | T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 64
What do you mean by 当年的场? You could drow the energy out of this 场 to
improve your practice?
What is 黑盒实验 ah?
【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
:
: 我多少是因为Truestory推介了几本书，心里觉得不错，也应该分享回馈一点。
: 可惜说话语气不是很好。
: 就我看这里还是不少人想接触佛法基础知识，我在这里老说这个不对，
: 那个不对。也不是很有益处。
: 每人在不同的阶段，应该有不同的平台。我应该找合适自己的平台。
: 这里暂时没有当年的场，留给人交流学习佛法知识也不错。
: 重要的还是解决自己的问题，有真实进步，否则高来高去，
: 真出个事，黑盒实验，自己还是受不了，以前的淡还不都是白扯了。
| b**d
发帖数: 7644 | 65 连李红痣大师也都可以写出这种体会。谁知道真假？
你应该找一个被佛教承认的师傅。
包括你前面推荐的癌症自愈的那个人。在佛教徒当中很多。净土宗就不少。我自己就认
识。 但是出来写书，开班的就没见过几个。 前一阵子还有一个人艾滋病自愈啦。 不
能说明什么问题。
你要是喜欢看奇迹。轮子功，阀门，都有更神的事情。何必看这些书，按照这种方法修
行呢？ 实际上基督徒都有很多神迹给你宣扬的。
that no-me and no-name feeling.
thought is true. But for people not yet there, such as me, choosing the
truer thought is a re-entry into this world. She said it so well.
【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: http://evelynrodriguez.typepad.com/pointingtothemoon/2007/02/by
: Above is a description on how she got her knowledge, and she experienced that no-me and no-name feeling.
: I like that whole blog, and I will zz the full blog below.
: The four questions are actually only one question "is it true?", as no thought is true. But for people not yet there, such as me, choosing the truer thought is a re-entry into this world. She said it so well.
: ====================================================================
: Her website is here:
: The very simple approach, The Work:
: http://thework.com/thework-4questions.php
: Some workshop videos:
: http://www.thework.com/watch.php
| b**d
发帖数: 7644 | 66 不是俺打击你，这些东东比起佛家四禅八定差太远啦。 | T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 67 hehe, I am not afraid of 被打击. I am very curious that after seeing so
many 神迹, why do you still feel that Buddhism can't satisfy you
completely? Or what satisfies you, and what doesn't satisfy you?
I heard about 神迹 in many religions or ways that can't be called
religions, that's why I am more inclined to believe that there's only ONE
TRUTH, and there are many ways to reach there.
【在 b**d 的大作中提到】
: 不是俺打击你，这些东东比起佛家四禅八定差太远啦。
| T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 68 I read a few articles online about 四禅八定, and it seems to be different
stages of meditation, is it so?
Also, I noticed this, "一位真正的圣者是少欲、知足与谦虚的，绝不会轻易透露自
己的证悟。", "确定一个人的证悟是很困难的，所以最好是不要告诉别人自己的修行成
果。" and "如果你真正证悟了道果，那么不相信的人就造下了严重的恶业，这将会给
他们带来伤害。因此，尽管证悟圣道的消息可能会激发某些人对佛法的信心，然而最好
还是完全不要透露自己的修行成果。"
Is this the reason that sometimes I feel like it's so hard for me get a
straight answer here?
【在 b**d 的大作中提到】
: 不是俺打击你，这些东东比起佛家四禅八定差太远啦。
| f*******8
发帖数: 3612 | 69
是说实修的气氛。
当然，也包括有人确实可以调动事情往深入发展。
通常人么都是像充了气的皮球，是很难沉到深水里（禅定）去的。
不过我并不是排斥浮上水面透透气。交流各种知识、和经验。。
黑盒实验、白盒实验是电脑里的术语。
做黑盒测试的时候，就是别人不管你的工作原理，和你的各种考虑，
解释。只从结果看，你到底能不能做到你说的。
而白盒测试是，测试者多少要考虑你的设计思路，然后根据你的思路
和条件来进行测试，评定。两者都有用。
因为一个人要学习进步，不是一天两天就能达成目的，中间要知道进
展到哪里了，需要有一定水平的人来引导测试，不否认你任何一丁点进步，你觉得
他理解你，多少知道你的心，最少也是知音。这是白盒测试。就是对方也是电脑
专家，你有错，他也多少能体谅，知道错误的来龙去脉，
总之就是容易被原谅和理解。你感觉这人太好了，真实知音。
白盒实验让人有知音感，缺点是容易产生溺爱，他怎么都理解你。也害人。
黑盒测试，就是真正面对客户，面对市场，面对人生。
对方不管你说的天花乱坠，不管你如何宣称自己懂得四圣谛，八正道，
不管你是mindfulness or mindfullless. 人家上来就看结果。
你说你在修“无我无嗔”，好，人家就砍你一刀。看看你如何。
那个忍辱仙人就是这样。歌利王做的就是黑盒实验。
上来就刀子侍候，废话就免了。
还有耶稣当时面对的也是黑盒实验，
你说你是天主的儿子，好，挂柱子上让天父来救你吧。
（这个耶稣复活的故事，当然我相信是有深意的，
并非他通不过黑盒实验，复活是一种通过）
而我们普通人，“被人理解”太多了，天天互相说好话，
让你忘了自己的问题所在，忘了自己的弱点。
忘了世界上还有黑盒实验在等着，
天天夸夸其谈，事到临头再想修，就已经晚了。
实际上，人的精力会慢慢消耗掉的，年纪越大越难修。
只要困难压力到一定阈值，
基本上就一定会被内外环境牵着走而无法自主了。
大概就是这意思，不过人一般是不见棺材不掉泪的。
棺材也是一个黑盒。:)
-----------------------------
可能天界算是白盒实验为主，人人互相理解，也看不见什么问题。
地狱算是黑盒为主，人人互相不理解，只有争斗,没人安慰你那受伤的心灵。
只有人间，实验条件最完备，
有白盒，让人不至于太挫折感，
有黑盒，让人不至于忘记问题。
【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: I read a few articles online about 四禅八定, and it seems to be different
: stages of meditation, is it so?
: Also, I noticed this, "一位真正的圣者是少欲、知足与谦虚的，绝不会轻易透露自
: 己的证悟。", "确定一个人的证悟是很困难的，所以最好是不要告诉别人自己的修行成
: 果。" and "如果你真正证悟了道果，那么不相信的人就造下了严重的恶业，这将会给
: 他们带来伤害。因此，尽管证悟圣道的消息可能会激发某些人对佛法的信心，然而最好
: 还是完全不要透露自己的修行成果。"
: Is this the reason that sometimes I feel like it's so hard for me get a
: straight answer here?
| T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 70 I see. I understand what you say much better now.
I sometimes think that the fights on this board were not bad at all. They
were the immediate tests and opportunities to see how each one behaved. I
read the JHQ recently, and ajku is good to have kept some record.
【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
:
: 是说实修的气氛。
: 当然，也包括有人确实可以调动事情往深入发展。
: 通常人么都是像充了气的皮球，是很难沉到深水里（禅定）去的。
: 不过我并不是排斥浮上水面透透气。交流各种知识、和经验。。
: 黑盒实验、白盒实验是电脑里的术语。
: 做黑盒测试的时候，就是别人不管你的工作原理，和你的各种考虑，
: 解释。只从结果看，你到底能不能做到你说的。
: 而白盒测试是，测试者多少要考虑你的设计思路，然后根据你的思路
: 和条件来进行测试，评定。两者都有用。
| | | f*******8
发帖数: 3612 | 71
呵呵，反者道之动，确实都看每个人自己怎么理解吸收取舍了。
【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: I see. I understand what you say much better now.
: I sometimes think that the fights on this board were not bad at all. They
: were the immediate tests and opportunities to see how each one behaved. I
: read the JHQ recently, and ajku is good to have kept some record.
| J******s
发帖数: 7538 | 72 What is the meaning to see how each other behaved? lol
【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: I see. I understand what you say much better now.
: I sometimes think that the fights on this board were not bad at all. They
: were the immediate tests and opportunities to see how each one behaved. I
: read the JHQ recently, and ajku is good to have kept some record.
| J******s
发帖数: 7538 | 73 你是修给别人看的呀，haha
【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
:
: 呵呵，反者道之动，确实都看每个人自己怎么理解吸收取舍了。
| T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 74 From what I read, he meant exactly the opposite.
【在 J******s 的大作中提到】
: 你是修给别人看的呀，haha
| T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 75 I read JHQ more to know that both waichi and runsun had their own
peculiarities, despite their achievements. I'd say that they are both
pursuers in this journey, which alone is helpful for me.
I know my own limitations, so I can't tell how far they are on this journey.
But I know that if one person respects others all the time, he might be
real or faking it. And yet if one person constantly disrespects others, as
both of them did, then they lacked at least one key thing to move forward.
As recent as your conflict with Yisu, together with other IDs who were
involved, I saw it as a very sad result of mis-communication, and there were
quite a few false thoughts involved. What do you think of it now? Do you
see what is true and what is not true? Do you still hold resentment? Do you
want to defend yourself right now? Or do you want to shuffle it away as if
you have let it go but actually you don't?
【在 J******s 的大作中提到】
: What is the meaning to see how each other behaved? lol
| J******s
发帖数: 7538 | 76 You are so interesting, haha
For me on this board I care much more what others are saying about Buddhism
or some other interesting topics.
I am quite fine with the issue of what you said.
It was just an experience, from which I learned sth, quite enough for me. I
came to this board mostly for knowledge instead of other things.
Answer your questions:
I think it was a meaningful experience.
When the issue was happening, it was true. But now it is just sth in my
memory. And if you did not mention it here again, I somehow forget it.
I do not have any resentment now.
Why should I defend myself now?
I let it go.
.P
journey.
were
【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: I read JHQ more to know that both waichi and runsun had their own
: peculiarities, despite their achievements. I'd say that they are both
: pursuers in this journey, which alone is helpful for me.
: I know my own limitations, so I can't tell how far they are on this journey.
: But I know that if one person respects others all the time, he might be
: real or faking it. And yet if one person constantly disrespects others, as
: both of them did, then they lacked at least one key thing to move forward.
: As recent as your conflict with Yisu, together with other IDs who were
: involved, I saw it as a very sad result of mis-communication, and there were
: quite a few false thoughts involved. What do you think of it now? Do you
| J******s
发帖数: 7538 | 77 You felt it in your way, same here.
:-)
【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: From what I read, he meant exactly the opposite.
| J******s
发帖数: 7538 | 78 I just put more words about this since you asked me a question before which
I did not reply.
The happening of the issue was due to some reasons, not only from me, but
all the IDs involved. We did sth before from which the issue was originated,
although we can not see that (dependent origination)so clear.
Now it ended for some days, the karma for that single issue played its role
and disappeared.
If I am still thinking that so much, I am torturing myself.
Life moved on already, why should I do that?
I am not avoiding problems, but here is no confusion for me right now.
And I should say thanks for your consideration.
:-)
journey.
were
【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: I read JHQ more to know that both waichi and runsun had their own
: peculiarities, despite their achievements. I'd say that they are both
: pursuers in this journey, which alone is helpful for me.
: I know my own limitations, so I can't tell how far they are on this journey.
: But I know that if one person respects others all the time, he might be
: real or faking it. And yet if one person constantly disrespects others, as
: both of them did, then they lacked at least one key thing to move forward.
: As recent as your conflict with Yisu, together with other IDs who were
: involved, I saw it as a very sad result of mis-communication, and there were
: quite a few false thoughts involved. What do you think of it now? Do you
| f*******8
发帖数: 3612 | 79 主要目的不是给别人看，而是为了解决自己的问题。
这和那些还没有说服自己之前就试图说服别人的人还不同，
我要说什么，最少要先说服自己。
这点都能看错，我觉得可能的解释就是你不想看事实，不是不会看。
不需逼迫了。
【在 J******s 的大作中提到】
: 你是修给别人看的呀，haha
| b**d
发帖数: 7644 | 80 谁跟你讲Buddhism cannot satisfy me的？ 你怎么瞅出来的？
你妈难道不能satisfy你吗？ 你还要个爸爸干什么？学了中文还不能satisfy你吗？ 你
还搞什么英文？
到底什么才能satisfy你，什么不能satisfy你呀？
我觉得你一定要搞清楚这个问题，然后你才能说什么打击不打击你。。LOL!
【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: hehe, I am not afraid of 被打击. I am very curious that after seeing so
: many 神迹, why do you still feel that Buddhism can't satisfy you
: completely? Or what satisfies you, and what doesn't satisfy you?
: I heard about 神迹 in many religions or ways that can't be called
: religions, that's why I am more inclined to believe that there's only ONE
: TRUTH, and there are many ways to reach there.
| | | b**d
发帖数: 7644 | 81 你的意思是？想做个交流顾问？ 指导大家在网上怎么发言才不引起miscommunication?
教教大家像您那样的正确思维方式？
你不是说你觉得什么都neutral 没有好坏的吗？ 现在改主意啦？
journey.
were
【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: I read JHQ more to know that both waichi and runsun had their own
: peculiarities, despite their achievements. I'd say that they are both
: pursuers in this journey, which alone is helpful for me.
: I know my own limitations, so I can't tell how far they are on this journey.
: But I know that if one person respects others all the time, he might be
: real or faking it. And yet if one person constantly disrespects others, as
: both of them did, then they lacked at least one key thing to move forward.
: As recent as your conflict with Yisu, together with other IDs who were
: involved, I saw it as a very sad result of mis-communication, and there were
: quite a few false thoughts involved. What do you think of it now? Do you
| T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 82 All of them should have happened, because they happened.
It was mis-communication, and it was neutral. Without it, I wouldn't know as
much as I know now.
miscommunication?
【在 b**d 的大作中提到】
: 你的意思是？想做个交流顾问？ 指导大家在网上怎么发言才不引起miscommunication?
: 教教大家像您那样的正确思维方式？
: 你不是说你觉得什么都neutral 没有好坏的吗？ 现在改主意啦？
:
: journey.
: were
| T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 83 I thought that it didn't satisfy you, because you were still actively
searching for a way to look young for ever. If you have found the way, why
were you still shopping around?
However, given what you said just now, it seemed that it satisfied you, didn
't it? I wanted to know why Buddhism was good, as many people, including you
, were pursuing it. If you want to share, I'd be happy. But if you don't
want to, that's your decision.
【在 b**d 的大作中提到】
: 谁跟你讲Buddhism cannot satisfy me的？ 你怎么瞅出来的？
: 你妈难道不能satisfy你吗？ 你还要个爸爸干什么？学了中文还不能satisfy你吗？ 你
: 还搞什么英文？
: 到底什么才能satisfy你，什么不能satisfy你呀？
: 我觉得你一定要搞清楚这个问题，然后你才能说什么打击不打击你。。LOL!
| T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 84 Thanks for your answers, and I am glad for your gaining through this
experience.
【在 J******s 的大作中提到】
: I just put more words about this since you asked me a question before which
: I did not reply.
: The happening of the issue was due to some reasons, not only from me, but
: all the IDs involved. We did sth before from which the issue was originated,
: although we can not see that (dependent origination)so clear.
: Now it ended for some days, the karma for that single issue played its role
: and disappeared.
: If I am still thinking that so much, I am torturing myself.
: Life moved on already, why should I do that?
: I am not avoiding problems, but here is no confusion for me right now.
| T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 85 To answer my own question and your question on satisfaction, indeed,
Buddhism does not satisfy me, because I still have questions. I asked them
here, and yet I haven't got enough answers and I'd keep them open for now.
My mom alone does not satisfy me, because I also need the love from my dad.
When do I know that I don't need any of that any more? That's when I don't
have them, then that's the time I'd know that I don't need them. When I have
them, I need them.
The same applies for everything with me, around me, and for me. When I need
them, they are mine. When I don't have them, I don't need them. I accept all
that life is bringing to me. | J******s
发帖数: 7538 | 86 What I can not understand is if you really want to talk about Buddhism, why
don't you just talk about the knowledge itself. Every time you will put some
personal comments on other IDs. Is this important for your Buddhism study
and practice?
【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
: 主要目的不是给别人看，而是为了解决自己的问题。
: 这和那些还没有说服自己之前就试图说服别人的人还不同，
: 我要说什么，最少要先说服自己。
: 这点都能看错，我觉得可能的解释就是你不想看事实，不是不会看。
: 不需逼迫了。
| T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 87 Hi, JeanIris:
Freeman08 doesn't need me to speak for him here, but this thread was posted
by me, and I feel a little bit ownership here. I read through all the posts
by Freeman08 in this thread, and I didn't see a single ID that he mentioned
and commented on. What do you mean by "Every time" he would put in personal
comments on other IDs?
It seems to me that you have known something and you insert it into what
people have posted here. There might be things that I don't know, but
perhaps you have a prejudice against others, which you are either not aware
of or choose to believe. What are those ideas?
why don't you just talk about the knowledge itself. Every time you will put
some personal comments on other IDs. Is this important for your Buddhism
study and practice?
【在 J******s 的大作中提到】
: What I can not understand is if you really want to talk about Buddhism, why
: don't you just talk about the knowledge itself. Every time you will put some
: personal comments on other IDs. Is this important for your Buddhism study
: and practice?
| J******s
发帖数: 7538 | 88 Freeman08 is a quite nice male ID, and very sincere.
I was commenting on sth he can understand.
:-)
posted
posts
mentioned
personal
aware
【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: Hi, JeanIris:
: Freeman08 doesn't need me to speak for him here, but this thread was posted
: by me, and I feel a little bit ownership here. I read through all the posts
: by Freeman08 in this thread, and I didn't see a single ID that he mentioned
: and commented on. What do you mean by "Every time" he would put in personal
: comments on other IDs?
: It seems to me that you have known something and you insert it into what
: people have posted here. There might be things that I don't know, but
: perhaps you have a prejudice against others, which you are either not aware
: of or choose to believe. What are those ideas?
| f*******8
发帖数: 3612 | 89
谢谢，基本上我相信你谈的，或别人谈的，我肯定能理解，
你这个信心是对的。
不过现在我也不是不能理解，而是不知道你在说什么。
你到底在说什么？
【在 J******s 的大作中提到】
: Freeman08 is a quite nice male ID, and very sincere.
: I was commenting on sth he can understand.
: :-)
:
: posted
: posts
: mentioned
: personal
: aware
| J******s
发帖数: 7538 | 90 Now I want to do an interesting test here. :P
Hi, JeanIris:
Freeman08 doesn't need me to speak for him here, but this thread was posted
by me, and I feel a little bit ownership here.
----
Do you know the inner motivation for you to claim in this way?
I read through all the posts by Freeman08 in this thread, and I didn't see a
single ID that he mentioned and commented on. What do you mean by "Every
time" he would put in personal comments on other IDs?
-----
You can read his posts more carefully, not only under this topic.
It seems to me that you have known something and you insert it into what
people have posted here.
-----
Can you ask yourself why you like commenting in this way? What is the
underlying reason for you to notice this so much?
There might be things that I don't know, but perhaps you have a prejudice
against others, which you are either not aware of or choose to believe. What
are those ideas?
-----
Can I ask what are those ideas to drive you reply my foregoing post by
three paragraphs?
haha
When we are asking questions to others, should we investigate on our
motivation to do that?
This is just a small test, not only to you, but also to myself.
have fun! | | | T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 91 My motivation is that I feel that you are faking or hiding things from me or
from yourself. I have asked my questions, that's what I wanted to do and I
did it.
Whether you would answer honestly is your business, which I have no control
nor intention to control.
【在 J******s 的大作中提到】
: Now I want to do an interesting test here. :P
: Hi, JeanIris:
: Freeman08 doesn't need me to speak for him here, but this thread was posted
: by me, and I feel a little bit ownership here.
: ----
: Do you know the inner motivation for you to claim in this way?
: I read through all the posts by Freeman08 in this thread, and I didn't see a
: single ID that he mentioned and commented on. What do you mean by "Every
: time" he would put in personal comments on other IDs?
: -----
| J******s
发帖数: 7538 | 92 I am quite honest to myself, I have no doubt.
Did I say you want to control anything?
My impression is you extented my words too far.
:-)
or
I
control
【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: My motivation is that I feel that you are faking or hiding things from me or
: from yourself. I have asked my questions, that's what I wanted to do and I
: did it.
: Whether you would answer honestly is your business, which I have no control
: nor intention to control.
| J******s
发帖数: 7538 | 93 For example.
通常人么都是像充了气的皮球，是很难沉到深水里（禅定）去的。
不过我并不是排斥浮上水面透透气。交流各种知识、和经验。。
When you were saying the second sentence, you excluded yourself from the
ones像充了气的皮球, did you?
haha
【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
:
: 谢谢，基本上我相信你谈的，或别人谈的，我肯定能理解，
: 你这个信心是对的。
: 不过现在我也不是不能理解，而是不知道你在说什么。
: 你到底在说什么？
| J******s
发帖数: 7538 | 94 Another instance.
我的问题是，别人在这里乱扣“外道”的帽子，我心里不忿，不过想想也是自己的问题。
贯彻一下那个逻辑：
我如果自己修行不到家，即使我把别人的说法都批了一下，也不能代表我就修好了。
而事实上是，我现在发现确实还是修得不行。
所以以后要收声。尽量收声少说，让给别人说吧。
我很希望有更适合我的环境和平台。也许这只有我们自己的修行团体了
Who are 别人? Why are you caring them so much?
:-)
【在 J******s 的大作中提到】
: For example.
: 通常人么都是像充了气的皮球，是很难沉到深水里（禅定）去的。
: 不过我并不是排斥浮上水面透透气。交流各种知识、和经验。。
: When you were saying the second sentence, you excluded yourself from the
: ones像充了气的皮球, did you?
: haha
| f*******8
发帖数: 3612 | 95
这个我没有。
不过我那话的道理并不因此减弱，为什么呢？
因为我有过一次经历，而别人没有。这是根本差别。
没有深入禅定经验的人，无法想象佛法“必须”通过实修才能真正懂得。
哪怕他们心里想信任佛说的指月指的说法，实际上还是不懂月亮和指头的差别。
所以我那话的意思是，强调实修的重要性。
但我并不能随时做到禅定，这也是我想少说的原因，
同时我也表示，虽然实修很重要，但是如果没有禅定的机缘，交流知识也是好的。
【在 J******s 的大作中提到】
: For example.
: 通常人么都是像充了气的皮球，是很难沉到深水里（禅定）去的。
: 不过我并不是排斥浮上水面透透气。交流各种知识、和经验。。
: When you were saying the second sentence, you excluded yourself from the
: ones像充了气的皮球, did you?
: haha
| f*******8
发帖数: 3612 | 96 这很简单啊，
本来如果大家都是在这里就事论事，我当然就是就佛法谈佛法，
但是别人上来就说，你们是外道。
你认为我应该怎么做？
1. “好吧好吧，承认我是外道，心里认定对方是疯子，无可救药，不跟他一般见识？
”，
还是
2. 尊重这个慧版的环境，多少也指出其不对的地方？免得谬种流传。
也好让别人不至于误解我们在默认一样。
---------------
口气改了改，内容没变。
题。
【在 J******s 的大作中提到】
: Another instance.
: 我的问题是，别人在这里乱扣“外道”的帽子，我心里不忿，不过想想也是自己的问题。
: 贯彻一下那个逻辑：
: 我如果自己修行不到家，即使我把别人的说法都批了一下，也不能代表我就修好了。
: 而事实上是，我现在发现确实还是修得不行。
: 所以以后要收声。尽量收声少说，让给别人说吧。
: 我很希望有更适合我的环境和平台。也许这只有我们自己的修行团体了
: Who are 别人? Why are you caring them so much?
: :-)
| l*****g
发帖数: 2311 | 97
我理解她在说啥，她说的对。
【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
: 这很简单啊，
: 本来如果大家都是在这里就事论事，我当然就是就佛法谈佛法，
: 但是别人上来就说，你们是外道。
: 你认为我应该怎么做？
: 1. “好吧好吧，承认我是外道，心里认定对方是疯子，无可救药，不跟他一般见识？
: ”，
: 还是
: 2. 尊重这个慧版的环境，多少也指出其不对的地方？免得谬种流传。
: 也好让别人不至于误解我们在默认一样。
: ---------------
| f*******8
发帖数: 3612 | 98
她说的什么？
【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 我理解她在说啥，她说的对。
| f*******8
发帖数: 3612 | 99
也许你说说，可能对你也有好处吧。清理一下到底看法从何而来。
这个版上，很多人看不清事情。都是朦胧，
不过社会上也一样。
【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
:
: 她说的什么？
| l*****g
发帖数: 2311 | 100
你这个回帖就充分体现了她所说的.
【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
:
: 也许你说说，可能对你也有好处吧。清理一下到底看法从何而来。
: 这个版上，很多人看不清事情。都是朦胧，
: 不过社会上也一样。
| | | T*******x
发帖数: 8565 | 101 hehe.
【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 你这个回帖就充分体现了她所说的.
| b**d
发帖数: 7644 | 102 佛教自己内部都分成很多派了，谁外谁内呀？你管人家怎么讲呢？而且你为什么一定要
人家认为你是佛教的？ 不就是个名字吗？
【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
: 这很简单啊，
: 本来如果大家都是在这里就事论事，我当然就是就佛法谈佛法，
: 但是别人上来就说，你们是外道。
: 你认为我应该怎么做？
: 1. “好吧好吧，承认我是外道，心里认定对方是疯子，无可救药，不跟他一般见识？
: ”，
: 还是
: 2. 尊重这个慧版的环境，多少也指出其不对的地方？免得谬种流传。
: 也好让别人不至于误解我们在默认一样。
: ---------------
| b**d
发帖数: 7644 | 103 你自己看看你都说了点什么。 我今天发善心啦。
我妈一个人满足不了我，因为我也需要我爸爸的爱。 我什么时候知道我不需要我老爸
的爱呢？ 那就是我失去我父母的时候，那个时候我就知道我不需要他们啦。我有父母
的时候，我就需要父母。 这个同样适用于跟我一起，在我周围，给我准备的一切东东
。 我需要他们的时候，他们就是我的，我没有他们的时候，我就不需要他们。 我接受
生活给我带来的一切。
你自己看得懂，你在说什么吗？童鞋？ 有人说佛教使人满足这种话吗？
佛教能使你满足吗？？？？？？？我老人家从来没听说过这种话。 就好象有人问，这
双鞋能使你满足吗？有了这双鞋，你还买别的鞋干啥？ 所以这双鞋不能使你满足。
.
have
need
all
【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: To answer my own question and your question on satisfaction, indeed,
: Buddhism does not satisfy me, because I still have questions. I asked them
: here, and yet I haven't got enough answers and I'd keep them open for now.
: My mom alone does not satisfy me, because I also need the love from my dad.
: When do I know that I don't need any of that any more? That's when I don't
: have them, then that's the time I'd know that I don't need them. When I have
: them, I need them.
: The same applies for everything with me, around me, and for me. When I need
: them, they are mine. When I don't have them, I don't need them. I accept all
: that life is bringing to me.
| b**d
发帖数: 7644 | 104 要饭的估计都不需要饭，因为当时没有饭。找动作的都不需要工作，因为当时没有工作
。 但凡你在找什么东东的时候，显然就不需要什么东东，因为你当时没有这个东东。
强大！太强大啦！ | T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 105 呵呵，见笑了。我是觉得有时候你觉得我说的太可笑但不愿打击我而不回复，你的好意
我心领了。我喜欢看你的回复，敬请直言。
我的确认为我没有的东西就是我不需要的，因为我没有。如果我需要，它会来到我的身
边。老天自有安排。这并不是消极接受，而是全身心顺服，我能做我分内的事，而且只
有我分内的事是我需要做的。
【在 b**d 的大作中提到】
: 要饭的估计都不需要饭，因为当时没有饭。找动作的都不需要工作，因为当时没有工作
: 。 但凡你在找什么东东的时候，显然就不需要什么东东，因为你当时没有这个东东。
: 强大！太强大啦！
| l*****g
发帖数: 2311 | 106
哇，见你汉字好舒服啊，这一定是我需要的，所以来到我身边。 ：）
【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: 呵呵，见笑了。我是觉得有时候你觉得我说的太可笑但不愿打击我而不回复，你的好意
: 我心领了。我喜欢看你的回复，敬请直言。
: 我的确认为我没有的东西就是我不需要的，因为我没有。如果我需要，它会来到我的身
: 边。老天自有安排。这并不是消极接受，而是全身心顺服，我能做我分内的事，而且只
: 有我分内的事是我需要做的。
| T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 107 呵呵，今晚儿在家敲字方便。不早了，祝萝冰睡个好觉，周末玩得开心！
【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 哇，见你汉字好舒服啊，这一定是我需要的，所以来到我身边。 ：）
| l*****g
发帖数: 2311 | 108
谢谢，予人方便自己方便。你也开心。好梦。
【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: 呵呵，今晚儿在家敲字方便。不早了，祝萝冰睡个好觉，周末玩得开心！
| b**d
发帖数: 7644 | 109 是的。对你没有恶意。开个玩笑而已。
你的想法我还是不同意的。你又不是神仙，你要吃饭的时候，难道碗筷就自己跑到你身
边了吗？试想如果你大学毕业，难道真的不找工作吗？ 我觉得这是你对某些宗教观念
的误读。佛教也说有求皆苦，但是并不是一般人理解的那个意思。
【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: 呵呵，见笑了。我是觉得有时候你觉得我说的太可笑但不愿打击我而不回复，你的好意
: 我心领了。我喜欢看你的回复，敬请直言。
: 我的确认为我没有的东西就是我不需要的，因为我没有。如果我需要，它会来到我的身
: 边。老天自有安排。这并不是消极接受，而是全身心顺服，我能做我分内的事，而且只
: 有我分内的事是我需要做的。
| f*******8
发帖数: 3612 | 110 这是两个方面，一个方面是别人的问题
另一方面是我的问题。
我也觉得我的某些地方应该改，W也曾说过我某方面有很大的问题。
这一两年在自我观察，心里也是有些障碍没看清楚，
希望能看清楚为什么必须解决，然后解决之。
【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 谢谢，予人方便自己方便。你也开心。好梦。
| | | l*****g
发帖数: 2311 | 111
这样吧。你先帮我解决一下我的问题。
你曾抱怨我搞特殊，不先了解你就下定论。
你讲讲你自己吧，你是啥样的人? 有啥难忘的经历？
【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
: 这是两个方面，一个方面是别人的问题
: 另一方面是我的问题。
: 我也觉得我的某些地方应该改，W也曾说过我某方面有很大的问题。
: 这一两年在自我观察，心里也是有些障碍没看清楚，
: 希望能看清楚为什么必须解决，然后解决之。
| T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 112 en. I don't mean that we can wait without doing anything.
Despite being supplied tremendously by this Universe, there's still our part
to make things happen.
What we do is like planting: the seed is our dream, and we can water it,
nurture it, but how it grows, depends on its environment, as well. I let it
go after I do my part at each moment, however the result comes out to be.
The planting is needed for the seed to grow, and yet we are not in full
control on how this seed grows out to be.
Take looking for a job for example, I may think that I want to have a
certain job, but I may end up getting another one. That's okay for me. When
I have a job, I'd like to have some clarity on why I have this job, what I
gain from it, what I contribute to it, and if there's something else I need,
can I get it from this job, or should I switch? That's the decision I need
to make, rather than thinking that "I hate this job, why am I stuck here?",
etc. Those thoughts are false. There must be a reason for one to take a job,
and this reason should not be overlooked.
【在 b**d 的大作中提到】
: 是的。对你没有恶意。开个玩笑而已。
: 你的想法我还是不同意的。你又不是神仙，你要吃饭的时候，难道碗筷就自己跑到你身
: 边了吗？试想如果你大学毕业，难道真的不找工作吗？ 我觉得这是你对某些宗教观念
: 的误读。佛教也说有求皆苦，但是并不是一般人理解的那个意思。
| b**d
发帖数: 7644 | 113 这样你就明白啦。 我追求长生不死，或者shop around, 不代表我就对佛教不满意。
就好象你说的你在找工作，不代表你就因为没工作心生恨意。
此外，你不懂长生不死之术，不代表其他人不懂。得了癌症再治，显然没有青春常驻，
百病不生的好。 当然你完全可以如你所说的，accept what you get, 和凡人一起衰老
死亡。
大家各过各的，我对我的生活也非常满意。
part
it
When
【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: en. I don't mean that we can wait without doing anything.
: Despite being supplied tremendously by this Universe, there's still our part
: to make things happen.
: What we do is like planting: the seed is our dream, and we can water it,
: nurture it, but how it grows, depends on its environment, as well. I let it
: go after I do my part at each moment, however the result comes out to be.
: The planting is needed for the seed to grow, and yet we are not in full
: control on how this seed grows out to be.
: Take looking for a job for example, I may think that I want to have a
: certain job, but I may end up getting another one. That's okay for me. When
| T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 114 I guess that it's my statement that you were not satisfied that had been
quite offensive to you. I apologize for that.
I do think that all people die, as bodies age, and it's beautiful in this
process. But if you know some other cases otherwise, I'd be honored if you
could share.
【在 b**d 的大作中提到】
: 这样你就明白啦。 我追求长生不死，或者shop around, 不代表我就对佛教不满意。
: 就好象你说的你在找工作，不代表你就因为没工作心生恨意。
: 此外，你不懂长生不死之术，不代表其他人不懂。得了癌症再治，显然没有青春常驻，
: 百病不生的好。 当然你完全可以如你所说的，accept what you get, 和凡人一起衰老
: 死亡。
: 大家各过各的，我对我的生活也非常满意。
:
: part
: it
: When
| f*******8
发帖数: 3612 | 115
我记不清了。
我尽量保持每天少点时间上网，所以以前的事，要不就先放下吧。
【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 这样吧。你先帮我解决一下我的问题。
: 你曾抱怨我搞特殊，不先了解你就下定论。
: 你讲讲你自己吧，你是啥样的人? 有啥难忘的经历？
| l*****g
发帖数: 2311 | 116
你放下批判别人就行。
【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
:
: 我记不清了。
: 我尽量保持每天少点时间上网，所以以前的事，要不就先放下吧。
| f*******8
发帖数: 3612 | 117
这个我接受。
最近再一次发现这大概是个普遍定理：建议别人不如建立自己。
看看人家Jobs也不做客户调查，也不说你们该怎么做
人家想要什么，自己就做了。
看看尊者阿伽曼传，也是如此，
他也没说，因为 我想 解脱，所以 你们 应该 好好的修行。
确实如此。
【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 你放下批判别人就行。
| l*****g
发帖数: 2311 | 118
我都不知说啥好了。你自己慢慢玩吧。
你咋就看不见别人。
【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
:
: 这个我接受。
: 最近再一次发现这大概是个普遍定理：建议别人不如建立自己。
: 看看人家Jobs也不做客户调查，也不说你们该怎么做
: 人家想要什么，自己就做了。
: 看看尊者阿伽曼传，也是如此，
: 他也没说，因为 我想 解脱，所以 你们 应该 好好的修行。
: 确实如此。
| f*******8
发帖数: 3612 | 119
我歇歇，照顾一下自己的日常生活，
也许日常生活中多看看别人的需求。
最近少用时间上来。
但是我乐观各位的进步。。。
--------------
再者，你想要我像你的偶像那样了解你么？
别做梦了，我做不到了。
从这一点看，偶像也有副作用，
碰到一次偶像，从此就觉得世界上的人都会，都应该，像偶像那样了解自己。
偶像对我也有副作用，帮人认识些东西，
也让人产生不切实际的期望。
【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 我都不知说啥好了。你自己慢慢玩吧。
: 你咋就看不见别人。
| l*****g
发帖数: 2311 | 120
哈哈哈。。。我从来就没这个梦。尤其对你。
【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
:
: 我歇歇，照顾一下自己的日常生活，
: 也许日常生活中多看看别人的需求。
: 最近少用时间上来。
: 但是我乐观各位的进步。。。
: --------------
: 再者，你想要我像你的偶像那样了解你么？
: 别做梦了，我做不到了。
: 从这一点看，偶像也有副作用，
: 碰到一次偶像，从此就觉得世界上的人都会，都应该，像偶像那样了解自己。
| | | l*****g
发帖数: 2311 | 121
奇怪的是waichi对你一向gentle，不过肯定有他的道理。
我也就此shut up 了。天知道你有多脆弱。
【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
:
: 我歇歇，照顾一下自己的日常生活，
: 也许日常生活中多看看别人的需求。
: 最近少用时间上来。
: 但是我乐观各位的进步。。。
: --------------
: 再者，你想要我像你的偶像那样了解你么？
: 别做梦了，我做不到了。
: 从这一点看，偶像也有副作用，
: 碰到一次偶像，从此就觉得世界上的人都会，都应该，像偶像那样了解自己。
| T*******x
发帖数: 8565 | 122 那可能因为他修行还算用心。
【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 奇怪的是waichi对你一向gentle，不过肯定有他的道理。
: 我也就此shut up 了。天知道你有多脆弱。
| l*****g
发帖数: 2311 | 123
嗯。有道理。
可能还有就是waichi比较知道他。人总有难克服或认识的地方。
你这个freeman粉，为啥鼓励他指鹿为马呢？
就是他讲的道理有理，可是根据场景，也是胡搅一气阿。
【在 T*******x 的大作中提到】
: 那可能因为他修行还算用心。
| f*******8
发帖数: 3612 | 124
有用心的部分，
也有自我回避的部分。
确实不能互相代替。
我有一个主要问题，反正是对某个东西的惯性反应，
如果看清楚，克服了，估计以后就顺了。
更正一下，他不是什么粉，我这水平，还不值得有粉。
我们是原来在深圳就比较熟。
不过他在这个网上活动多年，都没有露出来自己是何方人士，
所以开始我也不知道他是谁，是多年以后才知道的。
当然，朋友要能看见问题，并且体谅是最好。
光体谅不能帮人解决问题，也还不够。更不能纵容。
友直友谅友多闻，才行。
这是有恳切，有胸怀，还有见识的意思。
【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 嗯。有道理。
: 可能还有就是waichi比较知道他。人总有难克服或认识的地方。
: 你这个freeman粉，为啥鼓励他指鹿为马呢？
: 就是他讲的道理有理，可是根据场景，也是胡搅一气阿。
| T*******x
发帖数: 8565 | 125 我没有啊。
他不好的地方我偶尔也指出。
【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 嗯。有道理。
: 可能还有就是waichi比较知道他。人总有难克服或认识的地方。
: 你这个freeman粉，为啥鼓励他指鹿为马呢？
: 就是他讲的道理有理，可是根据场景，也是胡搅一气阿。
| l*****g
发帖数: 2311 | 126
哈哈哈。。。你太可爱了。
你是不是啥事都一本正经阿？很像鲁迅笔下的文人。
【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
:
: 有用心的部分，
: 也有自我回避的部分。
: 确实不能互相代替。
: 我有一个主要问题，反正是对某个东西的惯性反应，
: 如果看清楚，克服了，估计以后就顺了。
: 更正一下，他不是什么粉，我这水平，还不值得有粉。
: 我们是原来在深圳就比较熟。
: 不过他在这个网上活动多年，都没有露出来自己是何方人士，
: 所以开始我也不知道他是谁，是多年以后才知道的。
| l*****g
发帖数: 2311 | 127
你有阿。每次你就顾着自己看他的文爽了。根本不管他在跟谁谈，在谈啥。
喂，你这他的老朋友，多关心一下他的利益吧。 ：）
【在 T*******x 的大作中提到】
: 我没有啊。
: 他不好的地方我偶尔也指出。
| T*******x
发帖数: 8565 | 128 他有好的地方也有不好的地方。我只能这么说了。:)
【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 你有阿。每次你就顾着自己看他的文爽了。根本不管他在跟谁谈，在谈啥。
: 喂，你这他的老朋友，多关心一下他的利益吧。 ：）
| l*****g
发帖数: 2311 | 129
哈哈哈。。。的确。我也没必要总是揪着他不好的地方。
还是你心宽。
【在 T*******x 的大作中提到】
: 他有好的地方也有不好的地方。我只能这么说了。:)
| T*******x
发帖数: 8565 | 130 他好的地方是看问题能看本质，没有条条框框。
用你们修行人话说，是有观力，也有慧力。
他不好的地方是说话偶尔会拉拉扯扯。
这反映的是：没有一个好的习惯，也可以说观力还不够，不能时时刻刻观。
我赞他，都是赞他好的时候，从来没有赞他不好的时候。
你心挺宽的，还不错的。
【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 哈哈哈。。。的确。我也没必要总是揪着他不好的地方。
: 还是你心宽。
| | | l*****g
发帖数: 2311 | 131
你这一夸，他又得在天上呆着了。
他观过，见过，就是抓着不放。
同意。我想清楚了，这个就像J的那个水晶心，是行文方式。尽管让人不爽。 ：)
你赞他时，遮蔽了他不好的。他恐怕未必分清你在赞他啥。
【在 T*******x 的大作中提到】
: 他好的地方是看问题能看本质，没有条条框框。
: 用你们修行人话说，是有观力，也有慧力。
: 他不好的地方是说话偶尔会拉拉扯扯。
: 这反映的是：没有一个好的习惯，也可以说观力还不够，不能时时刻刻观。
: 我赞他，都是赞他好的时候，从来没有赞他不好的时候。
: 你心挺宽的，还不错的。
| b**d
发帖数: 7644 | 132 问题就是如果你觉得死亡如此之美丽，那就没有必要再追求长生啦。 我没有觉得什么
生气，只是觉得你说话经常自相矛盾而已。
太乙金华宗旨是一本很不错的书，照着修炼会有很好的效果。 当然那也得看你的福气
啦。
【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: I guess that it's my statement that you were not satisfied that had been
: quite offensive to you. I apologize for that.
: I do think that all people die, as bodies age, and it's beautiful in this
: process. But if you know some other cases otherwise, I'd be honored if you
: could share.
| b**d
发帖数: 7644 | 133 罗师太， 读到神游，忽然想起真知道个人，能进入人的梦境。 青海无不是也有进入人
的定境的神通吗？据waichi的旧帖。当然这是俺的理解，你又理解成什么样子我就不知
道啦。
【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 你这一夸，他又得在天上呆着了。
: 他观过，见过，就是抓着不放。
: 同意。我想清楚了，这个就像J的那个水晶心，是行文方式。尽管让人不爽。 ：)
: 你赞他时，遮蔽了他不好的。他恐怕未必分清你在赞他啥。
| l*****g
发帖数: 2311 | 134
进入人的定境，应该是可以的。
【在 b**d 的大作中提到】
: 罗师太， 读到神游，忽然想起真知道个人，能进入人的梦境。 青海无不是也有进入人
: 的定境的神通吗？据waichi的旧帖。当然这是俺的理解，你又理解成什么样子我就不知
: 道啦。
| T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 135 "那就没有必要再追求长生啦"
Exactly, I have never pursued 长生. I kind of believe reincarnation of human
souls, but not the full 六道. I see death as a transition. Also, in between
reincarnations, there's the dimension of souls in the soul format. With
enough learning in the Earth school, there's no need of reincarnation any
more (I don't know whether it can be called nirvana). So I don't see 解脱 as
the goal, nor reincarnation as anything to avoid.
I see that you are pursuing 长生, and I don't think that you'd ever be
successful, as it's a dead-end against reality. Well, as you said, I could
be wrong due to my limited knowledge, and I want to know whether you know of
anybody who has achieved 长生.
Thanks for your recommendation of the book!
【在 b**d 的大作中提到】
: 问题就是如果你觉得死亡如此之美丽，那就没有必要再追求长生啦。 我没有觉得什么
: 生气，只是觉得你说话经常自相矛盾而已。
: 太乙金华宗旨是一本很不错的书，照着修炼会有很好的效果。 当然那也得看你的福气
: 啦。
| T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 136 "太乙金华宗旨"
hehe, I googled it to know that it's the one Carl Jung studied a lot. He
said that he saw the alchemy in China as a metaphor for pursuing the self-
transformation, etc. It would be fun to read this book further. | T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 137 "我没有觉得什么生气，只是觉得你说话经常自相矛盾而已。 "
BTW, I don't think that I'd ever contradict myself ah. I meant exactly what
I said, and I have not changed my opinions. | b**d
发帖数: 7644 | 138 既然你不追求长生，太乙金华宗旨你就不要看啦。 你也不要honored to share 啦。
你还是不太clear 你的问题呀。 大家各过各的，不要以为你的就正确，你就比别人过
得好。 我觉得我们没有必要再继续讨论啦。
你的观点我不同意，也不打算再听你讲我的观点错，你的观点正确啦。你自己在家一个
人正确就好啦。
human
between
as
of
【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: "那就没有必要再追求长生啦"
: Exactly, I have never pursued 长生. I kind of believe reincarnation of human
: souls, but not the full 六道. I see death as a transition. Also, in between
: reincarnations, there's the dimension of souls in the soul format. With
: enough learning in the Earth school, there's no need of reincarnation any
: more (I don't know whether it can be called nirvana). So I don't see 解脱 as
: the goal, nor reincarnation as anything to avoid.
: I see that you are pursuing 长生, and I don't think that you'd ever be
: successful, as it's a dead-end against reality. Well, as you said, I could
: be wrong due to my limited knowledge, and I want to know whether you know of
| b**d
发帖数: 7644 | 139 怎么操作? 我很好奇。你认识有人可以吗？
【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 进入人的定境，应该是可以的。
| l*****g
发帖数: 2311 | 140
我不知道咋操作，觉得最起码自己得定力甚深吧。
waichi可以。
阿迦曼尊者也行啊。
【在 b**d 的大作中提到】
: 怎么操作? 我很好奇。你认识有人可以吗？
| | | b**d
发帖数: 7644 | 141 没听waichi讲可以，听waichi讲青海无可以。
阿姜曼的故事没看过。
光知道有个师傅看上去很普通，可以进入人的梦乡。
【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 我不知道咋操作，觉得最起码自己得定力甚深吧。
: waichi可以。
: 阿迦曼尊者也行啊。
| l*****g
发帖数: 2311 | 142
J旧文中我记得不只一次提到。
【在 b**d 的大作中提到】
: 没听waichi讲可以，听waichi讲青海无可以。
: 阿姜曼的故事没看过。
: 光知道有个师傅看上去很普通，可以进入人的梦乡。
| b**d
发帖数: 7644 | 143 是进入人的定境，还是梦？ 不过不管哪一个，也算挺牛的啦。 J讲话，我还是很相信
的。
【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: J旧文中我记得不只一次提到。
| b**d
发帖数: 7644 | 144 补充一下，俺记得以前问过一个佛家实修的师傅，有关于出体的问题，那个师傅说，的
确是一不小心就冲出来啦。非常常见的现象。。。。。。。还有个老外，修佛的，声称
经常自己坐在自己的身边看自己睡觉。。。这也是蛮神的事情。 | l*****g
发帖数: 2311 | 145
噢，J说的应该是梦境。
【在 b**d 的大作中提到】
: 是进入人的定境，还是梦？ 不过不管哪一个，也算挺牛的啦。 J讲话，我还是很相信
: 的。
| l*****g
发帖数: 2311 | 146
waichi在班上讲过出阴神的事，我记得就像是白日作梦。 ：)
【在 b**d 的大作中提到】
: 补充一下，俺记得以前问过一个佛家实修的师傅，有关于出体的问题，那个师傅说，的
: 确是一不小心就冲出来啦。非常常见的现象。。。。。。。还有个老外，修佛的，声称
: 经常自己坐在自己的身边看自己睡觉。。。这也是蛮神的事情。
| T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 147 This doesn't have to be done by Buddhists ah. It's natural with enough
experience in meditation. Carl Jung had this experience too.
的确是一不小心就冲出来啦。非常常见的现象。。。。。。。还有个老外，修佛的，声
称经常自己坐在自己的身边看自己睡觉。。。这也是蛮神的事情。
【在 b**d 的大作中提到】
: 补充一下，俺记得以前问过一个佛家实修的师傅，有关于出体的问题，那个师傅说，的
: 确是一不小心就冲出来啦。非常常见的现象。。。。。。。还有个老外，修佛的，声称
: 经常自己坐在自己的身边看自己睡觉。。。这也是蛮神的事情。
| T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 148 BBS is a watering place, why should I "自己在家一个人"? I don't care about
being right or wrong, I care about the reasons behind each statement.
Regarding what we mentioned so far though, we can surely stop here since
both of our opinions are clear, and you don't want to give your reasons.
过得好。 我觉得我们没有必要再继续讨论啦。
个人正确就好啦。
【在 b**d 的大作中提到】
: 既然你不追求长生，太乙金华宗旨你就不要看啦。 你也不要honored to share 啦。
: 你还是不太clear 你的问题呀。 大家各过各的，不要以为你的就正确，你就比别人过
: 得好。 我觉得我们没有必要再继续讨论啦。
: 你的观点我不同意，也不打算再听你讲我的观点错，你的观点正确啦。你自己在家一个
: 人正确就好啦。
:
: human
: between
: as
: of
| b**d
发帖数: 7644 | 149 这个就是最让我迷惑的地方啦，怎么区分到底是梦，还是真出阴神。 而且道家出的是
阳神，阴神貌似不稀奇，很容易出。 阳神就不容易。 而且还有阳神分身。Anyways,
我觉得这个是我的目标。 感觉类似佛家意生身的成就。
【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: waichi在班上讲过出阴神的事，我记得就像是白日作梦。 ：)
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