Where are the good guys with guns? - USANews版

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USANews版 - Where are the good guys with guns?

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F********r
发帖数: 878

3/17 Georgia, then Boulder, then Chicago and Philadelphia yesterday, then
Virginia Beach today(though 3 separate shootings, but at least one is
considered as a mass shooting). At least five mass shootings in just 11
days. Which one was stopped by a good civilian with a gun?

F********r
发帖数: 878

Look at all the notorious mass shootings the last twenty some years,
Columbine, Virginia Tech, Fort Hood, Aurora, San Bernadino,
Sandy Hook, Orlando Nightclub, Thousand Oaks, Parkfield, and LV. Any more
you remember? Which one is stopped by a good civilian with a gun?

F********r
发帖数: 878

Yeah, there is one that I remember. A TX church shooting, the gunner was
chased after by some good civilian, then died from a car crash?

l*******g
发帖数: 27064

麻痹的都是深蓝shithole
不让合法持枪上街
守法的人手里没枪，怎么拦住？

l*******g
发帖数: 27064

麻痹的都是深蓝shithole
不让合法持枪上街
守法的人手里没枪，怎么拦住？

F********r
发帖数: 878

Some are not blue states. For example, Georgia, Fl, and TX. Columbine
shooting took place when CO was having a GOP governor. Plus, blue states
does not mean people cannot carry concealed guns. For example, you can
carry concealed in CA as long as you get license.

【在 l*******g 的大作中提到】

: 麻痹的都是深蓝shithole
: 不让合法持枪上街
: 守法的人手里没枪，怎么拦住？

l****b
发帖数: 400

Provide statistics man. Not isolated examples. Give you a hint, how many
death due to gun violence in all the states. Let’s see which states and
cities win.

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: Some are not blue states. For example, Georgia, Fl, and TX. Columbine
: shooting took place when CO was having a GOP governor. Plus, blue states
: does not mean people cannot carry concealed guns. For example, you can
: carry concealed in CA as long as you get license.

p******r
发帖数: 1127

Columnine shooting was in a school, in fuck your mom a gun free zone
introduced by your garbage party. It's the same for this Boulder shooting.
Gun free zone is really a free slaughtering zone. Can you idiot shut your
ass hole?

: Some are not blue states. For example, Georgia, Fl, and TX.
Columbine

: shooting took place when CO was having a GOP governor. Plus, blue
states

: does not mean people cannot carry concealed guns. For example, you
can

: carry concealed in CA as long as you get license.

:

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

F********r
发帖数: 878

OK. Exclude Columbine, how about the others? You call GOP my garbage party
? What is your no-garbage party? Show how you are not an idiot.

【在 p******r 的大作中提到】

: Columnine shooting was in a school, in fuck your mom a gun free zone
: introduced by your garbage party. It's the same for this Boulder shooting.
: Gun free zone is really a free slaughtering zone. Can you idiot shut your
: ass hole?
:
:
: Some are not blue states. For example, Georgia, Fl, and TX.
: Columbine
:
: shooting took place when CO was having a GOP governor. Plus, blue
: states
:
: does not mean people cannot carry concealed guns. For example, you

F********r
发帖数: 878

I was asking which one mass shooting was stopped by a good civilian with a
gun. Do you have the answer? Yeah, you can deflect the question by asking
the stats, why don't you provide it if you want to talk about it? You are
answering my question by throwing me another question?

【在 l****b 的大作中提到】

: Provide statistics man. Not isolated examples. Give you a hint, how many
: death due to gun violence in all the states. Let’s see which states and
: cities win.

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p******r
发帖数: 1127

You are an idiot who cant read. I already told you this Boulder shooting was
also in a gun free grocery store. Many shootings were stopped by gun
carrying good citizens. MSM just refuse to report those. You are one of the
typical liberal
zombies who keep getting egg on your stupid ugly face. The question is will
you please shut the fuck up or keep illustrating that you liberals are lowly
informed dumb fucks?

: OK. Exclude Columbine, how about the others? You call GOP my
garbage
party

: ? What is your no-garbage party? Show how you are not an idiot.

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: I was asking which one mass shooting was stopped by a good civilian with a
: gun. Do you have the answer? Yeah, you can deflect the question by asking
: the stats, why don't you provide it if you want to talk about it? You are
: answering my question by throwing me another question?

F********r
发帖数: 878

Oh, thousands lives were saved by gun owners, they just were not reported.
Wonder how you get the info? From little papers? Or you are the one who
have saved thousands and therefore self-evident? You don't need to shut up
your retarded mouth or your smart beautiful ass, give us your numbers. I
want to know more about your "Many shootings were stopped by gun carrying
good citizens
." I know it is not your obligation to "educate" people here, just leak us
a little info so that we are not fooled by the liberal media.

was
the
will
lowly

【在 p******r 的大作中提到】

: You are an idiot who cant read. I already told you this Boulder shooting was
: also in a gun free grocery store. Many shootings were stopped by gun
: carrying good citizens. MSM just refuse to report those. You are one of the
: typical liberal
: zombies who keep getting egg on your stupid ugly face. The question is will
: you please shut the fuck up or keep illustrating that you liberals are lowly
: informed dumb fucks?
:
:
: OK. Exclude Columbine, how about the others? You call GOP my
: garbage

j****3
发帖数: 2836

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/10/19/3-million-americans-carry-loaded-handguns-with-them-every-single-day-study-finds/
2017年的调查发现，全美国只有3百万人是天天带枪，外加另外6百万人至少一个月带一
次，但带枪的人高比例集中于20来岁南方州的保守派中。就算平均分布，也不过100个
里面一个肯定带枪的，大部分mass shooting又发生在Gun Free Zone, 所以单单从概率
上讲，有枪好人制止mass shooting就是极为罕见的事情。尤其是当牵涉到枪击人群少
于100时，理论上很可能一个带枪的人都没有。
所以，因为带枪的人实在太少，所以用枪制止mass shooting的成功案例也不会多。

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: 3/17 Georgia, then Boulder, then Chicago and Philadelphia yesterday, then
: Virginia Beach today(though 3 separate shootings, but at least one is
: considered as a mass shooting). At least five mass shootings in just 11
: days. Which one was stopped by a good civilian with a gun?

p******r
发帖数: 1127

Keep humiliating yourself, idiot. Your mom must be so embarrassed of your
low IQ and self esteem. This is just one of many incidents because it had to
make news. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_St._Cloud,_Minnesota_knife_
attack
"He was shot dead inside the mall by an off-duty law enforcement
officer who intervened"

: Oh, thousands lives were saved by gun owners, they just were not
reported.

: Wonder how you get the info? From little papers? Or you are
the one
who

: have saved thousands and therefore self-evident? You don't need
to
shut up

: your retarded mouth or your smart beautiful ass, give us your
numbers.
I

: want to know more about your "Many shootings were stopped
by gun
carrying

: good citizens

: ." I know it is not your obligation to "educate"
people here, just
leak us

: a little info so that we are not fooled by the liberal media.

: was

: the

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: Oh, thousands lives were saved by gun owners, they just were not reported.
: Wonder how you get the info? From little papers? Or you are the one who
: have saved thousands and therefore self-evident? You don't need to shut up
: your retarded mouth or your smart beautiful ass, give us your numbers. I
: want to know more about your "Many shootings were stopped by gun carrying
: good citizens
: ." I know it is not your obligation to "educate" people here, just leak us
: a little info so that we are not fooled by the liberal media.
:
: was

F********r
发帖数: 878

Using one to defend thousands, you are so smart. Your mom must be very
proud of you.

to
knife_

【在 p******r 的大作中提到】

: Keep humiliating yourself, idiot. Your mom must be so embarrassed of your
: low IQ and self esteem. This is just one of many incidents because it had to
: make news. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_St._Cloud,_Minnesota_knife_
: attack
: "He was shot dead inside the mall by an off-duty law enforcement
: officer who intervened"
:
:
: Oh, thousands lives were saved by gun owners, they just were not
: reported.
:
: Wonder how you get the info? From little papers? Or you are

p******r
发帖数: 1127

This is just a famous one. And do you idiot really understand what is mass
shooting? The majority of the socalled mass shootings were Democrats voting
gansters shooting other Democrats voting gansters. They naturally were
stopped by guns. I like such mass shootings.

: Using one to defend thousands, you are so smart. Your mom must be
very

: proud of you.

: to

: knife_

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: Using one to defend thousands, you are so smart. Your mom must be very
: proud of you.
:
: to
: knife_

F********r
发帖数: 878

OK. Let me lower my expectation on you guys. Then at least give me some
reports of gun violence, not necessarily mass shootings, stopped by good
civilians with guns. Don't tell me there are only a few because most are
not reported.

【在 j****3 的大作中提到】

: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/10/19/3-million-americans-carry-loaded-handguns-with-them-every-single-day-study-finds/
: 2017年的调查发现，全美国只有3百万人是天天带枪，外加另外6百万人至少一个月带一
: 次，但带枪的人高比例集中于20来岁南方州的保守派中。就算平均分布，也不过100个
: 里面一个肯定带枪的，大部分mass shooting又发生在Gun Free Zone, 所以单单从概率
: 上讲，有枪好人制止mass shooting就是极为罕见的事情。尤其是当牵涉到枪击人群少
: 于100时，理论上很可能一个带枪的人都没有。
: 所以，因为带枪的人实在太少，所以用枪制止mass shooting的成功案例也不会多。

F********r
发帖数: 878

For one famous one, there are ten notorious ones. Yes, you can blame it on
Dems, as I said before, some did not happen in Dem states. You are sure all
of those victims in Georgia were Dems?

voting

【在 p******r 的大作中提到】

: This is just a famous one. And do you idiot really understand what is mass
: shooting? The majority of the socalled mass shootings were Democrats voting
: gansters shooting other Democrats voting gansters. They naturally were
: stopped by guns. I like such mass shootings.
:
:
: Using one to defend thousands, you are so smart. Your mom must be
: very
:
: proud of you.
:
: to
:
: knife_

F********r
发帖数: 878

Just to let you know, using terms like "idiot" does not make your argument
stronger. It only shows other people what you are. Just in case you don't
know. I never start using terms like that, I only respond with terms like
that. Just check, you are not a new ID. I was trying to teach an old dog
new trick, foolish of me.

voting

【在 p******r 的大作中提到】

p*******m
发帖数: 24

how about useful idiot?

t

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: Just to let you know, using terms like "idiot" does not make your argument
: stronger. It only shows other people what you are. Just in case you don't
: know. I never start using terms like that, I only respond with terms like
: that. Just check, you are not a new ID. I was trying to teach an old dog
: new trick, foolish of me.
:
: voting

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F********r
发帖数: 878

Not just "idiot". Look at his first reply in this thread, he was full of
trash.

【在 p*******m 的大作中提到】

: how about useful idiot?
:
: t

p******r
发帖数: 1127

Unlike your full shit load of "brain"

: Not just "idiot". Look at his first reply in this thread, he was full
of

: trash.

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: Not just "idiot". Look at his first reply in this thread, he was full of
: trash.

p*******m
发帖数: 24

his words maybe harsh, but you do look like a useful idiot, tbh.

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: Not just "idiot". Look at his first reply in this thread, he was full of
: trash.

F********r
发帖数: 878

not more than you. Really, I am not pretending to be humble now.

【在 p*******m 的大作中提到】

: his words maybe harsh, but you do look like a useful idiot, tbh.

F********r
发帖数: 878

You must be someone's MJ. Show your face. Smart guy. See, you don't need
to pretend to be cool by using trash. I don't need to resort to it, but if
you want, you are free to choose how you present yourself to others. It is
your choice. I am only responding.

full

【在 p******r 的大作中提到】

: Unlike your full shit load of "brain"
:
:
: Not just "idiot". Look at his first reply in this thread, he was full
: of
:
: trash.
:

p*******m
发帖数: 24

11 times a good guy with a gun stopped a bad guy, saving lives
https://www.washingtontimes.com/multimedia/collection/good-guy-gun-stopped-
bad-guy-gun/
just FYI, using the right term to google you can land on this in first page.
by asking stupid questions here, you are exposing yourself as either
incompetent or an internet troll.

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: not more than you. Really, I am not pretending to be humble now.

F********r
发帖数: 878

11 times, impressive. And this 11 times dates all the way back to at least
2007. Do you know how many lives were lost to gun violence
since 2007? Impress me again with your google skill. If you are
embarrassed
to say that number, just give me the number for these recent five mass
shootings.

page.

【在 p*******m 的大作中提到】

: 11 times a good guy with a gun stopped a bad guy, saving lives
: https://www.washingtontimes.com/multimedia/collection/good-guy-gun-stopped-
: bad-guy-gun/
: just FYI, using the right term to google you can land on this in first page.
: by asking stupid questions here, you are exposing yourself as either
: incompetent or an internet troll.

l****b
发帖数: 400

Oh man, you keep typing English but you have dyslexia. I was questioning
your statement saying that some shooting are not in blue states. Provide
stats and tell us how many are in blue states and how many are not.
As for good civilians using gun to stop violence, well, can you calculate
the prevention of something that didn’t happen? For example, can you
calculate how many death a seatbelt can prevent? You would compare death in
a time period at a place without using seatbelt and that from at a place
that does enforce seatbelt and you would know right? Isn’t that the
comparison and stats I was asking for?

asking
are

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

p*******m
发帖数: 24

"banning guns" will not solve gun violence, as "banning criminals" will not
erase crimes.
now it is your call to keep being incompetent or a troll.

violence

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: 11 times, impressive. And this 11 times dates all the way back to at least
: 2007. Do you know how many lives were lost to gun violence
: since 2007? Impress me again with your google skill. If you are
: embarrassed
: to say that number, just give me the number for these recent five mass
: shootings.
:
: page.

F********r
发帖数: 878

Of course. Eventually it is the people we need to fix. However, before we
can get to the root of the problem, which is a bigger task, limit their
hands on lethal tools, just
like we don't give guns to babies. Banning guns will make them 1000 times
more difficult to get, and base on demand and supply, guns will be hundreds
times, if not thousand times, more expensive. Then not too many people can
afford getting guns. Yes, they still can have other tools, but other tools
are not as lethal, otherwise today's gun-violence perpetrators would have
chosen other tools.

not

【在 p*******m 的大作中提到】

: "banning guns" will not solve gun violence, as "banning criminals" will not
: erase crimes.
: now it is your call to keep being incompetent or a troll.
:
: violence

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F********r
发帖数: 878

I gave you the names of the red states already in one of my previous posts.
If you want to expand the topic, you provide the data.

in

【在 l****b 的大作中提到】

: Oh man, you keep typing English but you have dyslexia. I was questioning
: your statement saying that some shooting are not in blue states. Provide
: stats and tell us how many are in blue states and how many are not.
: As for good civilians using gun to stop violence, well, can you calculate
: the prevention of something that didn’t happen? For example, can you
: calculate how many death a seatbelt can prevent? You would compare death in
: a time period at a place without using seatbelt and that from at a place
: that does enforce seatbelt and you would know right? Isn’t that the
: comparison and stats I was asking for?
:

l****b
发帖数: 400

Oh oh, who is deflecting now? You are the one who raised the question about
good people with guns don’t prevent anything

.

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: I gave you the names of the red states already in one of my previous posts.
: If you want to expand the topic, you provide the data.
:
: in

l****b
发帖数: 400

If I provide stats, would you kill your own id and stop putting out shit
here? Make that promise and I will

.

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: I gave you the names of the red states already in one of my previous posts.
: If you want to expand the topic, you provide the data.
:
: in

F********r
发帖数: 878

I was not deflecting. Why do I want to spend time to do what you want? If
you want to discuss something and make a point, the burden is on you to
provide some data as the talking point. You want to expand the topic, so
you need to spend time to provide it. If you do your dual diligence, I will
do mine. I already provide my data as a talking point, those are the mass
shootings I mentioned in my previous posts. Potassium at least did some
reaching to find 11 since 2007. What is your data?

about

【在 l****b 的大作中提到】

: Oh oh, who is deflecting now? You are the one who raised the question about
: good people with guns don’t prevent anything
:
: .

S*L
发帖数: 1746

Like the mother of all mass shootings. It happened in Nevada which had
garbage RINO governor in 2017.

party

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: OK. Exclude Columbine, how about the others? You call GOP my garbage party
: ? What is your no-garbage party? Show how you are not an idiot.

F********r
发帖数: 878

And the RINO voters elected the RINO governor? The RINO voters passed the
gun laws? Right, any GOPs other GOPs don't like, just label them RINOs.
Problem solved! Really?

【在 S*L 的大作中提到】

: Like the mother of all mass shootings. It happened in Nevada which had
: garbage RINO governor in 2017.
:
: party

l****b
发帖数: 400

Like I said, you made a claim based on your imagination, not data. When I
questioned your claim, I have to provide data to prove you wrong?
Also, I don’t want to waste time on low life. If you want me to, at least
commit to something, such as stop coming here to claim shit. If you promise,
I can entertain. If you chicken out, I understand. An elementary schooler
would know the gun related death rates in these states, right?

If
will
mass

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: I was not deflecting. Why do I want to spend time to do what you want? If
: you want to discuss something and make a point, the burden is on you to
: provide some data as the talking point. You want to expand the topic, so
: you need to spend time to provide it. If you do your dual diligence, I will
: do mine. I already provide my data as a talking point, those are the mass
: shootings I mentioned in my previous posts. Potassium at least did some
: reaching to find 11 since 2007. What is your data?
:
: about

F********r
发帖数: 878

I HAVE given names of some red states, have you killed your ID? Why do I
need to kill my ID when you give me some names? What is your logic? Is it
some new logic invented the last twenty years since I took my Logic class at
college?

【在 l****b 的大作中提到】

: If I provide stats, would you kill your own id and stop putting out shit
: here? Make that promise and I will
:
: .

F********r
发帖数: 878

I didn't know those mass shootings are my imagination. Thanks for telling
me.

promise,

【在 l****b 的大作中提到】

: Like I said, you made a claim based on your imagination, not data. When I
: questioned your claim, I have to provide data to prove you wrong?
: Also, I don’t want to waste time on low life. If you want me to, at least
: commit to something, such as stop coming here to claim shit. If you promise,
: I can entertain. If you chicken out, I understand. An elementary schooler
: would know the gun related death rates in these states, right?
:
: If
: will
: mass

l****b
发帖数: 400

Oh wow, names of red states are stats? Lol you just crack me up

it
at

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: I HAVE given names of some red states, have you killed your ID? Why do I
: need to kill my ID when you give me some names? What is your logic? Is it
: some new logic invented the last twenty years since I took my Logic class at
: college?

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j****3
发帖数: 2836

https://concealednation.org/guns-saving-lives/
用枪自卫的案例可以到这里去看，实际案例肯定不止这些。大的媒体一般倾向于报道死
人多的轰动案件，这些犯罪被制止的在大媒体眼里本来就没啥新闻价值。
另外需要说明的是，你不应该对带枪的人有任何期望。我带枪只是为了保护自己和家人
，不是为了保护其他人的，那是警察的任务。而且即使是警察，在保护他人时也是在自
己安全有足够保障时进行。你压根儿就不该指望你遇到危险时其他人来帮你，你应该对
自己的安危负责。

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: OK. Let me lower my expectation on you guys. Then at least give me some
: reports of gun violence, not necessarily mass shootings, stopped by good
: civilians with guns. Don't tell me there are only a few because most are
: not reported.

F********r
发帖数: 878

Agree, I am not expecting others to save my life. However, gun-right
fighters often use "gun owners save life by preventing gun violence" as
argument to support gun ownership.

【在 j****3 的大作中提到】

: https://concealednation.org/guns-saving-lives/
: 用枪自卫的案例可以到这里去看，实际案例肯定不止这些。大的媒体一般倾向于报道死
: 人多的轰动案件，这些犯罪被制止的在大媒体眼里本来就没啥新闻价值。
: 另外需要说明的是，你不应该对带枪的人有任何期望。我带枪只是为了保护自己和家人
: ，不是为了保护其他人的，那是警察的任务。而且即使是警察，在保护他人时也是在自
: 己安全有足够保障时进行。你压根儿就不该指望你遇到危险时其他人来帮你，你应该对
: 自己的安危负责。

F********r
发帖数: 878

Do you think only numbers are data?

【在 l****b 的大作中提到】

: Oh wow, names of red states are stats? Lol you just crack me up
:
: it
: at

j****3
发帖数: 2836

2A唯一的目的是让平民拥枪，必要时对抗政府，干掉政府官员。当然这话两边都不好明
说，所以拥枪反枪的才扯啥自卫啊犯罪啊这些附带衍生出来的东西。

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: Agree, I am not expecting others to save my life. However, gun-right
: fighters often use "gun owners save life by preventing gun violence" as
: argument to support gun ownership.

l****b
发帖数: 400

Stats, my friend, stats. Not “data”.
Well whatever floats your boat. You just showed the entire forum what you
have got

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: Do you think only numbers are data?

F********r
发帖数: 878

This is really outdated. 250 years ago, you grab a whole bunch of farmers
with guns, you got yourself an army to at least have a fight. Therefore, at
that time, guns could provide a check on the government. Now, with all the
advance in weaponry, guns are just a joke to "必要时对抗政府". They are
more like tools for criminals.

【在 j****3 的大作中提到】

: 2A唯一的目的是让平民拥枪，必要时对抗政府，干掉政府官员。当然这话两边都不好明
: 说，所以拥枪反枪的才扯啥自卫啊犯罪啊这些附带衍生出来的东西。

j****3
发帖数: 2836

邦迪农场就说明2A显然没有过时。前不久广州刚炸了村委会，这是我此次爆炸案的评论：
http://www.mitbbs.com/article_t1/Military/59861413_0_1.html
发信人: jhe123 (jhe), 信区: Military
标题: Re: 广州番禺村委会被炸，伤亡惨重
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Mon Mar 22 10:04:19 2021, 美东)
呵呵，谁再说美国2A没用的？搞炸药毕竟不容易，其次大部分人不一定会用炸药。有2A
的话，每个人都可能掏枪干掉政府官员。
不管在中国还是美国，平民持有和官员同归于尽的手段和装备都应该是天赋人权。

at
the

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: This is really outdated. 250 years ago, you grab a whole bunch of farmers
: with guns, you got yourself an army to at least have a fight. Therefore, at
: that time, guns could provide a check on the government. Now, with all the
: advance in weaponry, guns are just a joke to "必要时对抗政府". They are
: more like tools for criminals.

F********r
发帖数: 878

As a major in science, stats is only a portion of data. Anyway, what is
your logic behind me killing my ID when you provide "stats" but you HAVE NOT
killed your ID when I HAVE provided "data"? Though I am old, I still want
to learn. You can be my "one logic teacher".

【在 l****b 的大作中提到】

: Stats, my friend, stats. Not “data”.
: Well whatever floats your boat. You just showed the entire forum what you
: have got

F********r
发帖数: 878

If you just want to kill some corrupted officials, knives can do the job too
. Guns are more for easily killing more than one, but knives are good
enough for ambushing one or two. Plus, considering the benefit and
tradeoffs, guns have been a real bad idea to serve this purpose.

论：
2A

【在 j****3 的大作中提到】

: 邦迪农场就说明2A显然没有过时。前不久广州刚炸了村委会，这是我此次爆炸案的评论：
: http://www.mitbbs.com/article_t1/Military/59861413_0_1.html
: 发信人: jhe123 (jhe), 信区: Military
: 标题: Re: 广州番禺村委会被炸，伤亡惨重
: 发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Mon Mar 22 10:04:19 2021, 美东)
: 呵呵，谁再说美国2A没用的？搞炸药毕竟不容易，其次大部分人不一定会用炸药。有2A
: 的话，每个人都可能掏枪干掉政府官员。
: 不管在中国还是美国，平民持有和官员同归于尽的手段和装备都应该是天赋人权。
:
: at

l****b
发帖数: 400

It doesn’t take a science major to know that stats and names of subjects
are different portion of data. I rest my case.

NOT
want

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: As a major in science, stats is only a portion of data. Anyway, what is
: your logic behind me killing my ID when you provide "stats" but you HAVE NOT
: killed your ID when I HAVE provided "data"? Though I am old, I still want
: to learn. You can be my "one logic teacher".

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● 接下来右派的心愿	● Paul Ryan的黑材料
进入USANews版参与讨论

j****3
发帖数: 2836

刀显然没枪好用。另外为啥要提高平民造反的难度？造反难度越低，造反门槛也越低，
相应的政府能够作恶而不遭遇反抗的作恶程度也越低，对大家都是好事。

too

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: If you just want to kill some corrupted officials, knives can do the job too
: . Guns are more for easily killing more than one, but knives are good
: enough for ambushing one or two. Plus, considering the benefit and
: tradeoffs, guns have been a real bad idea to serve this purpose.
:
: 论：
: 2A

F********r
发帖数: 878

Don't leave please. It's a cozy weekend.

【在 l****b 的大作中提到】

: It doesn’t take a science major to know that stats and names of subjects
: are different portion of data. I rest my case.
:
: NOT
: want

F********r
发帖数: 878

In front of fighter jets, nukes, and all the other advanced weaponry, guns
are just a joke for "平民造反". They can only serve as a tool to
assassinate some officials. Guns are in an embarrassing situation, they are
too "waek" against government yet too strong/lethal for civilians. They
are not really serving their purpose.

【在 j****3 的大作中提到】

: 刀显然没枪好用。另外为啥要提高平民造反的难度？造反难度越低，造反门槛也越低，
: 相应的政府能够作恶而不遭遇反抗的作恶程度也越低，对大家都是好事。
:
: too

l****b
发帖数: 400

I am here to expose idiots. Today my job is well done.

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: Don't leave please. It's a cozy weekend.

F********r
发帖数: 878

Yeah, you have exposed yourself. So you are done today. That I agree with
you. Have a good weekend. No, you will be back. Tic tok, tic tok, ...

【在 l****b 的大作中提到】

: I am here to expose idiots. Today my job is well done.

j****3
发帖数: 2836

任何政策都是要人去执行的，底层执行的人有生命危险或者隔三岔五被干掉，这个政策
就会大打折扣甚至无法执行。另外就算要和政府全面开战，只有枪虽然处于极为不利的
地位，但仍然可以有所作为。美军入侵后，阿富汗抵抗力量基本也就是些轻武器，但这
么多年了依然在和美军战斗。

are

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: In front of fighter jets, nukes, and all the other advanced weaponry, guns
: are just a joke for "平民造反". They can only serve as a tool to
: assassinate some officials. Guns are in an embarrassing situation, they are
: too "waek" against government yet too strong/lethal for civilians. They
: are not really serving their purpose.

H***3
发帖数: 821

hehe，有枪也不会跳出来对射，对大部分人来说，逃命还是第一要紧

【在 j****3 的大作中提到】

j****3
发帖数: 2836

碰上mass shooting的应对是按跑-躲-斗的原则进行，跑不掉躲不过而不得不拼命时，
有枪没枪区别就大了。

【在 H***3 的大作中提到】

: hehe，有枪也不会跳出来对射，对大部分人来说，逃命还是第一要紧

F********r
发帖数: 878

Afghanistan people don't just have light weapons, they have at least AKs.
They also have RPGs. They have heavy machine guns. These are all banned in
teh US.

【在 j****3 的大作中提到】

: 任何政策都是要人去执行的，底层执行的人有生命危险或者隔三岔五被干掉，这个政策
: 就会大打折扣甚至无法执行。另外就算要和政府全面开战，只有枪虽然处于极为不利的
: 地位，但仍然可以有所作为。美军入侵后，阿富汗抵抗力量基本也就是些轻武器，但这
: 么多年了依然在和美军战斗。
:
: are

F********r
发帖数: 878

Stats have shown the victims have far outnumbered the ones saved.

【在 j****3 的大作中提到】

: 碰上mass shooting的应对是按跑-躲-斗的原则进行，跑不掉躲不过而不得不拼命时，
: 有枪没枪区别就大了。

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进入USANews版参与讨论

j****3
发帖数: 2836

这些都属于轻武器，不会造成本质区别。而且半自动的AR要改全自动也不是难事，和平
时期没人愿意因为改装去坐十年牢，都要造反了的话这就不是个事了。

: Afghanistan people don't just have light weapons, they have at least
AKs.

: They also have RPGs. They have heavy machine guns. These are all
banned in

: teh US.

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: Stats have shown the victims have far outnumbered the ones saved.

j****3
发帖数: 2836

数据也表明Mass shooting的时候有带枪公民在场的可能性极低，在禁枪区发生枪击案
时更是没有守法公民能带枪。所以死的人多于被救的人完全不奇怪。

: Stats have shown the victims have far outnumbered the ones saved.

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: Stats have shown the victims have far outnumbered the ones saved.

F********r
发帖数: 878

Not just mass shootings. Victims of all gun violence far outnumber the ones
saved by gun-owner civilians. I don't bother checking the stats, but I
believe at least at 10:1 ratio, even 100:1.

【在 j****3 的大作中提到】

: 数据也表明Mass shooting的时候有带枪公民在场的可能性极低，在禁枪区发生枪击案
: 时更是没有守法公民能带枪。所以死的人多于被救的人完全不奇怪。
:
:
: Stats have shown the victims have far outnumbered the ones saved.
:

F********r
发帖数: 878

Yeah, they are still light weapons compared to jets, tanks, missiles, nukes
and other advanced weapons. Even they are banned in the US, so the even "
lighter" firearms allowed in the US are just a joke for 造反. It's only an
illusion that guns provide a tool for citizens to check the government.

【在 j****3 的大作中提到】

: 这些都属于轻武器，不会造成本质区别。而且半自动的AR要改全自动也不是难事，和平
: 时期没人愿意因为改装去坐十年牢，都要造反了的话这就不是个事了。
:
:
: Afghanistan people don't just have light weapons, they have at least
: AKs.
:
: They also have RPGs. They have heavy machine guns. These are all
: banned in
:
: teh US.
:

j****3
发帖数: 2836

数据恰恰和你凭感觉认为的相反。每年被枪拯救的人远远超过被枪害死的人。

: Not just mass shootings. Victims of all gun violence far outnumber
the ones

: saved by gun-owner civilians. I don't bother checking the stats, but
I

: believe at least at 10:1 ratio, even 100:1.

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: Yeah, they are still light weapons compared to jets, tanks, missiles, nukes
: and other advanced weapons. Even they are banned in the US, so the even "
: lighter" firearms allowed in the US are just a joke for 造反. It's only an
: illusion that guns provide a tool for citizens to check the government.

j****3
发帖数: 2836

邦迪农场已经充分证明你的推论是错误的。

: Yeah, they are still light weapons compared to jets, tanks, missiles,
nukes

: and other advanced weapons. Even they are banned in the US, so the
even "

: lighter" firearms allowed in the US are just a joke for 造反. It's
only an

: illusion that guns provide a tool for citizens to check the government.

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

n***s
发帖数: 10056

Georgia is a blue state. It voted Biden and two Dem senators last year.

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

S*L
发帖数: 1746

If California doesn't have so many RINOs like you
it might not be a shit hole like it is now.

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: And the RINO voters elected the RINO governor? The RINO voters passed the
: gun laws? Right, any GOPs other GOPs don't like, just label them RINOs.
: Problem solved! Really?

F********r
发帖数: 878

I am not a RINO. I am independent, just lean toward GOP. You still refuse
to accept that there are way more Dems than Repubs in Cal. You would rather
believe Dems win big over Repubs in Cal simply because of illegal votes the
last twenty or thirty years?

【在 S*L 的大作中提到】

: If California doesn't have so many RINOs like you
: it might not be a shit hole like it is now.

F********r
发帖数: 878

Convince me with stats. I cannot find any except some from gun-advocate
groups. Give me some researches from FBI or neutral third-party, or
something like that.

but

【在 j****3 的大作中提到】

: 数据恰恰和你凭感觉认为的相反。每年被枪拯救的人远远超过被枪害死的人。
:
:
: Not just mass shootings. Victims of all gun violence far outnumber
: the ones
:
: saved by gun-owner civilians. I don't bother checking the stats, but
: I
:
: believe at least at 10:1 ratio, even 100:1.
:

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F********r
发帖数: 878

But I mostly vote for GOPs the last twenty years, you are saying GOPs have
better chance to win without my vote that went to them? Who taught you your
math? The only Dem that I consistently voted for is Judy Chu, though I do
not agree with her on most issues. I vote for her simply because she is
Chinese and might voice my concerns, though it might be just wishful
thinking.

【在 S*L 的大作中提到】

: If California doesn't have so many RINOs like you
: it might not be a shit hole like it is now.

F********r
发帖数: 878

Don't know what 邦迪农场 is. Will google it.

,
government.

【在 j****3 的大作中提到】

: 邦迪农场已经充分证明你的推论是错误的。
:
:
: Yeah, they are still light weapons compared to jets, tanks, missiles,
: nukes
:
: and other advanced weapons. Even they are banned in the US, so the
: even "
:
: lighter" firearms allowed in the US are just a joke for 造反. It's
: only an
:
: illusion that guns provide a tool for citizens to check the government.
:

F********r
发帖数: 878

It voted for Biden just last Nov, and voted out the two Repub senators just
this Jan. All the state laws in effect now are made before these times.
Plus, Georgia still has a GOP governor. Also, GOP still has strong hold in
the state legislature. So, GOPs are mostly responsible for the laws, gun
laws included, in the state of Georgia.

【在 n***s 的大作中提到】

: Georgia is a blue state. It voted Biden and two Dem senators last year.

F********r
发帖数: 878

Did a little wiki background check on the Bundy Standoff. Seems to me that
they could achieve the same goal by using knives. Do you really think they
could really fight the government? The government just did not want them to
be killed, like in the Waco case, and the government wanted to de-escalate
the situation. Because of this intention of the government, the result
would be the same if they armed themselves with just machetes. If the
government really wanted to crush them, they could all have ended up dead,
without any casualty on the Fed's side. So it was not much about guns, it
was about your WILL.

,
government.

【在 j****3 的大作中提到】

r***i
发帖数: 1

jhe123已经给你解释过了，
二修就是为了杀欺压你的狗官
为这个，只能接受罪犯和精神病白疮也拥枪的后果了
盹盹盹

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: Convince me with stats. I cannot find any except some from gun-advocate
: groups. Give me some researches from FBI or neutral third-party, or
: something like that.
:
: but

r***i
发帖数: 1

熟食
盹盹盹

【在 r***i 的大作中提到】

: jhe123已经给你解释过了，
: 二修就是为了杀欺压你的狗官
: 为这个，只能接受罪犯和精神病白疮也拥枪的后果了
: 盹盹盹

F********r
发帖数: 878

But how many 狗官s have been killed by good guys with guns? We already have
hundreds of thousands of innocent lives lost to gun violence over the years
. Isn't this price too high?

【在 r***i 的大作中提到】

: jhe123已经给你解释过了，
: 二修就是为了杀欺压你的狗官
: 为这个，只能接受罪犯和精神病白疮也拥枪的后果了
: 盹盹盹

r***i
发帖数: 1

这是你的思维，不是鸦片国国人的思维
鸦片国人觉得保留杀死狗官的能力是必须的
盹盹盹

have
years

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: But how many 狗官s have been killed by good guys with guns? We already have
: hundreds of thousands of innocent lives lost to gun violence over the years
: . Isn't this price too high?

r***i
发帖数: 1

不过无仇无怨大屠杀基本都是白疮
lol

【在 r***i 的大作中提到】

: 这是你的思维，不是鸦片国国人的思维
: 鸦片国人觉得保留杀死狗官的能力是必须的
: 盹盹盹
:
: have
: years

F********r
发帖数: 878

Maybe, just like the 550k lives lost to covid is nothing compared to the
sacred rights to walk freely without masks and social distancing.

【在 r***i 的大作中提到】

: 这是你的思维，不是鸦片国国人的思维
: 鸦片国人觉得保留杀死狗官的能力是必须的
: 盹盹盹
:
: have
: years

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r***i
发帖数: 1

差不多吧
不过二修是每个州的简单多数都拥护的
不顾老人死活不带口罩出去狼，这是shithole红州的特色
lol

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: Maybe, just like the 550k lives lost to covid is nothing compared to the
: sacred rights to walk freely without masks and social distancing.

y*******g
发帖数: 1

用枪来制止突发的暴力枪击事件是个美好的愿望。很难在现实中实现。因为枪手多数有
备而来，有时候还穿了防弹衣。一般人即便戴着上膛的手枪，也未必在对射中有优势。
禁枪是唯一的办法，但是在美国，戴个口罩都弄不了。所以永远无解

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

r***i
发帖数: 1

问题在于你禁不了罪犯的枪
稍微好一点的办法是不能携枪离开住处，否则是10年监禁以上的重罪
盹盹盹

【在 y*******g 的大作中提到】

: 用枪来制止突发的暴力枪击事件是个美好的愿望。很难在现实中实现。因为枪手多数有
: 备而来，有时候还穿了防弹衣。一般人即便戴着上膛的手枪，也未必在对射中有优势。
: 禁枪是唯一的办法，但是在美国，戴个口罩都弄不了。所以永远无解

j****3
发帖数: 2836

http://www.mitbbs.com/article_t/USANews/34518747.html
你要真是想认真谈这个问题，就把上面这文章不带偏见的读一遍，里面各种数据都有。

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: Convince me with stats. I cannot find any except some from gun-advocate
: groups. Give me some researches from FBI or neutral third-party, or
: something like that.
:
: but

j****3
发帖数: 2836

拜托你不要想当然的“推论”。拿刀示威还不如赤手空拳示威，赤手空拳至少还是和平
抗议，拿刀的话给了官方武力镇压的理由，但刀面对枪一点屁用没有。邦迪农场对峙现
场，农民武力远远超过被包围的政府武力，真要打起来被消灭的只能是官差。
当然你说政府完全可以增兵，但事情闹大后，那些挑起事端的官员政客就会面临极大政
治风险，而且政府增兵没准激起更多反抗。就像我前面说的，造反越容易，造反门槛越
低，官员能作恶的程度就越低。中国平民历次造反都是活不下去了才不得不反，而邦迪
农场是为了放牧权，当年华盛顿他们是为了茶叶税，这在中国就根本不是个事儿，因为
这点事儿就造反，呵呵，按中国标准，华盛顿邦迪他们全是他妈的“刁民”。

that
they
to
escalate
it

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: Did a little wiki background check on the Bundy Standoff. Seems to me that
: they could achieve the same goal by using knives. Do you really think they
: could really fight the government? The government just did not want them to
: be killed, like in the Waco case, and the government wanted to de-escalate
: the situation. Because of this intention of the government, the result
: would be the same if they armed themselves with just machetes. If the
: government really wanted to crush them, they could all have ended up dead,
: without any casualty on the Fed's side. So it was not much about guns, it
: was about your WILL.
:

D********r
发帖数: 135

连警察都死了，就更别指望好市民了，面对AR，警察手里那把枪不够看啊。
看来得指望好市民天天背着AR出门了。

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

f**********n
发帖数: 29853

棉花糖烂闹钟这回对了，军队允许持枪的地方的确没大规模屠杀。上次军队基地大屠杀
就是发生在禁枪场所。

【在 D********r 的大作中提到】

: 连警察都死了，就更别指望好市民了，面对AR，警察手里那把枪不够看啊。
: 看来得指望好市民天天背着AR出门了。

F********r
发帖数: 878

Again, that was only because the government didn't want to escalate the
situation and have more civilians killed. Agree with you that "但刀面对枪一
点屁用没有", the same applies to "Guns in civilians hands are of no use to
missiles and tanks." The same reason why Bundy's guns were useful also
would make machetes useful.

【在 j****3 的大作中提到】

: 拜托你不要想当然的“推论”。拿刀示威还不如赤手空拳示威，赤手空拳至少还是和平
: 抗议，拿刀的话给了官方武力镇压的理由，但刀面对枪一点屁用没有。邦迪农场对峙现
: 场，农民武力远远超过被包围的政府武力，真要打起来被消灭的只能是官差。
: 当然你说政府完全可以增兵，但事情闹大后，那些挑起事端的官员政客就会面临极大政
: 治风险，而且政府增兵没准激起更多反抗。就像我前面说的，造反越容易，造反门槛越
: 低，官员能作恶的程度就越低。中国平民历次造反都是活不下去了才不得不反，而邦迪
: 农场是为了放牧权，当年华盛顿他们是为了茶叶税，这在中国就根本不是个事儿，因为
: 这点事儿就造反，呵呵，按中国标准，华盛顿邦迪他们全是他妈的“刁民”。
:
: that

F********r
发帖数: 878

Gun control is one of the topics almost all first-year college students have
written as their research paper for their composition class. I did mine
more than twenty years ago. It was a paper about 15 pages long, I did a lot
of research and used a lot of citations too. Believe me, I have spent at
least 100 hours researching and writing the paper. I have seen a lot more
data, though outdated now, than you have seen. My conclusion at that time
was, far more lives were lost to guns in the US than saved by guns. Ask
your colleagues about their research paper they wrote for their English
class at first year college. They will tell you it is pain in the rear end
for most people, and probably it is the only thing they remember about that
course. Anyway, millions of students have done the same thing year
after year, and the funny thing is, nobody can convince anyone else. Do
you expect the post in the link is the best among the millions and that it
is a game changer?

【在 j****3 的大作中提到】

: http://www.mitbbs.com/article_t/USANews/34518747.html
: 你要真是想认真谈这个问题，就把上面这文章不带偏见的读一遍，里面各种数据都有。

j****3
发帖数: 2836

呵呵，你要一厢情愿认为政府不愿伤人才退缩是你的自由，但事实是对峙现场的官差面
对比自己强大的多的平民武装，不敢轻举妄动，才不得不妥协。政府官员在认为对自己
有利时是从来不吝于对平民使用武力的。另外一起平民造反的例子就是battle of
athens，估计你也没听说过，平民和狗官手下激战一夜最后获胜。

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: Again, that was only because the government didn't want to escalate the
: situation and have more civilians killed. Agree with you that "但刀面对枪一
: 点屁用没有", the same applies to "Guns in civilians hands are of no use to
: missiles and tanks." The same reason why Bundy's guns were useful also
: would make machetes useful.

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j****3
发帖数: 2836

哈哈，一个大一学生的课堂作业就让你对此事下最后结论了，你是不是过于自信得没边
儿了？
奥巴马2013年花了10M让CDC做的研究，和大一学生的课堂作业比起来，谁的权威性更高
一点？呵呵。。。
http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/cdc-gun-violence-study-goes-against-media-narrative/
The study, which was farmed out by the CDC to the Institute of Medicine and
National Research Council, also revealed that while there were "about 300,
000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008," the estimated number of
defensive uses of guns ranges "from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per
year."

have
lot
end
that

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: Gun control is one of the topics almost all first-year college students have
: written as their research paper for their composition class. I did mine
: more than twenty years ago. It was a paper about 15 pages long, I did a lot
: of research and used a lot of citations too. Believe me, I have spent at
: least 100 hours researching and writing the paper. I have seen a lot more
: data, though outdated now, than you have seen. My conclusion at that time
: was, far more lives were lost to guns in the US than saved by guns. Ask
: your colleagues about their research paper they wrote for their English
: class at first year college. They will tell you it is pain in the rear end
: for most people, and probably it is the only thing they remember about that

F********r
发帖数: 878

I only believe that if the Fed really want them to die, a couple missiles
will do the job. I believe nobody, you included, will doubt that. Battle
of Athens? In 1946? Do you bother telling people the number of gun victims
since 1946?

【在 j****3 的大作中提到】

: 呵呵，你要一厢情愿认为政府不愿伤人才退缩是你的自由，但事实是对峙现场的官差面
: 对比自己强大的多的平民武装，不敢轻举妄动，才不得不妥协。政府官员在认为对自己
: 有利时是从来不吝于对平民使用武力的。另外一起平民造反的例子就是battle of
: athens，估计你也没听说过，平民和狗官手下激战一夜最后获胜。

F********r
发帖数: 878

Cannot compare to CDC's research, but at least more comprehensive than
rresearch within a few minutes. All the evidences and argument you
presented, I have seen similar ones, there is nothing new to see.

and
per

【在 j****3 的大作中提到】

: 哈哈，一个大一学生的课堂作业就让你对此事下最后结论了，你是不是过于自信得没边
: 儿了？
: 奥巴马2013年花了10M让CDC做的研究，和大一学生的课堂作业比起来，谁的权威性更高
: 一点？呵呵。。。
: http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/cdc-gun-violence-study-goes-against-media-narrative/
: The study, which was farmed out by the CDC to the Institute of Medicine and
: National Research Council, also revealed that while there were "about 300,
: 000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008," the estimated number of
: defensive uses of guns ranges "from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per
: year."

m*********9
发帖数: 56

都是shithole城市吧？
这时候想起枪了？凭啥保护你？你骂别人的时候怎么想的？

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

j****3
发帖数: 2836

既然你承认你的课堂作业和CDC的研究无法相提并论，那你说应该相信哪一个？

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: Cannot compare to CDC's research, but at least more comprehensive than
: rresearch within a few minutes. All the evidences and argument you
: presented, I have seen similar ones, there is nothing new to see.
:
: and
: per

j****3
发帖数: 2836

从1946以后，美国没再发生过地方官员胡作非为到平民需要武装抗议的事件，直到邦迪
农场。即使邦迪农场对峙，地方官员看到平民决心武装暴动后，也没了1946年的地方官
和平民武力相向的勇气，只能退让。

victims

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: I only believe that if the Fed really want them to die, a couple missiles
: will do the job. I believe nobody, you included, will doubt that. Battle
: of Athens? In 1946? Do you bother telling people the number of gun victims
: since 1946?

F********r
发帖数: 878

My paper also cited CDC's, FBI's, and CIA's data that support my argument.
You tell me who we should trust. As I said, millions of students have
written research paper on this topic, nobody can convince each other.
Everyone wants to believe what he/she wants to believe, anything credible
from the opposite side is just automatically filtered out. You are the same
, and I am the same. I am not expecting to change anyone's opinion if that
person already has his/her mind made up.

【在 j****3 的大作中提到】

: 既然你承认你的课堂作业和CDC的研究无法相提并论，那你说应该相信哪一个？

j****3
发帖数: 2836

呵呵，据我所知到目前为止关于defensive gun use的正式研究就两个。1994弗罗里达
大学的研究，和2013CDC的研究，两个研究的结论是相近的。你20年前大一的课堂作业
时肯定没有2013的报告，我也高度怀疑你看到过1994弗罗里达大学的研究，不然你也不
会说出啥“Victims of all gun violence far outnumber the ones saved by gun-
owner civilians. I don't bother checking the stats, but I believe at least
at 10:1 ratio, even 100:1.” 这种毫无根据，完全是拍脑袋的话。

same
that

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: My paper also cited CDC's, FBI's, and CIA's data that support my argument.
: You tell me who we should trust. As I said, millions of students have
: written research paper on this topic, nobody can convince each other.
: Everyone wants to believe what he/she wants to believe, anything credible
: from the opposite side is just automatically filtered out. You are the same
: , and I am the same. I am not expecting to change anyone's opinion if that
: person already has his/her mind made up.

F********r
发帖数: 878

Two you know, more you don't know. The answer is just simple as that. Or
put it another way, there are two you know that support your point, others
you just simply ignore them.

least

【在 j****3 的大作中提到】

: 呵呵，据我所知到目前为止关于defensive gun use的正式研究就两个。1994弗罗里达
: 大学的研究，和2013CDC的研究，两个研究的结论是相近的。你20年前大一的课堂作业
: 时肯定没有2013的报告，我也高度怀疑你看到过1994弗罗里达大学的研究，不然你也不
: 会说出啥“Victims of all gun violence far outnumber the ones saved by gun-
: owner civilians. I don't bother checking the stats, but I believe at least
: at 10:1 ratio, even 100:1.” 这种毫无根据，完全是拍脑袋的话。
:
:
: same
: that

j****3
发帖数: 2836

100

给个你看过的其他关于defensive gun use的研究？

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: Two you know, more you don't know. The answer is just simple as that. Or
: put it another way, there are two you know that support your point, others
: you just simply ignore them.
:
: least

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h*******g
发帖数: 1

101

Good guys should bring their guns with them everywhere they go!
There will always be bad seeds and they are NOT going to follow any gun laws
otherwise they wouldn't commit crimes.
Second Amendment IS HERE TO STAY.

F********r
发帖数: 878

102

I remember I did provide a counterargument against the claim of "guns in
good guys' hands save lives" in my research paper. Since everything you say
in the paper, you have to support it with citation, I am sure I had used
citation to support that. As I said before, everyone "uses" evidence to
support his/her argument. You emphasize these two researches because they
support your side. But people on the other side do not give a hook to them,
just the same way you don't care about your opponents' evidence. Don't
focus too much on your straws, people on the other side don't care too much
about them.

【在 j****3 的大作中提到】

: 给个你看过的其他关于defensive gun use的研究？

j****3
发帖数: 2836

103

在你作业里关于gun save lifes的论据，到底是你引用的专业人士关于defensive gun
use的研究，还是你自己搜索的关于DGU的案例报道，这两种都叫citation，但要是后者
的话，完全不足以立论，不管是pro-gun还是anti-gun. 要是前者的话，我很有兴趣看
看，起码我不像你那样，自动过滤对我论点不利的研究。

say
them,
much

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: I remember I did provide a counterargument against the claim of "guns in
: good guys' hands save lives" in my research paper. Since everything you say
: in the paper, you have to support it with citation, I am sure I had used
: citation to support that. As I said before, everyone "uses" evidence to
: support his/her argument. You emphasize these two researches because they
: support your side. But people on the other side do not give a hook to them,
: just the same way you don't care about your opponents' evidence. Don't
: focus too much on your straws, people on the other side don't care too much
: about them.

F********r
发帖数: 878

104

Don't remember. Twenty some years ago, not everyone's idea could be easily
published, not like today when cats and dogs can comment here. I remember I
did have stats from FBI and CIA. You don't filter out evidence that do not
fit your narratives? That's nothing but a joke. Otherwise, tell me what
the number of lives lost to gun-violence each year and also the number of
lives saved by guns each year.

gun

【在 j****3 的大作中提到】

: 在你作业里关于gun save lifes的论据，到底是你引用的专业人士关于defensive gun
: use的研究，还是你自己搜索的关于DGU的案例报道，这两种都叫citation，但要是后者
: 的话，完全不足以立论，不管是pro-gun还是anti-gun. 要是前者的话，我很有兴趣看
: 看，起码我不像你那样，自动过滤对我论点不利的研究。
:
: say
: them,
: much

l****b
发帖数: 400

105

Full of “I remember...” and “I don’t remember...”. As if they were some
real evidence. When asked for data, you will spin like a 黔驴. what a joke.
Is forty nine your iq?

easily
I
not

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: Don't remember. Twenty some years ago, not everyone's idea could be easily
: published, not like today when cats and dogs can comment here. I remember I
: did have stats from FBI and CIA. You don't filter out evidence that do not
: fit your narratives? That's nothing but a joke. Otherwise, tell me what
: the number of lives lost to gun-violence each year and also the number of
: lives saved by guns each year.
:
: gun

F********r
发帖数: 878

106

You remember an essay you wrote twenty some years ago that is about 15 pages
? Feel free to impress me. Everyone, you included, can find easily online
100 names of victims to gun violence since this year if you want the data,
can you find 100 names of people saved by guns since this year? Do you
want to take the challenge to find who is the 黔驴? I find the names of the
victims of gun violence, and you find the names of the ones saved by guns,
see who can find more. If even you find half as many as I do, I can call it
even. If you find more names, you win. Do you have the guts to take it?
Don't give me craps like "the media just do not report them". There are
police reports that you can comb through. You give me the name of any big
city, red or blue, we both can comb through the police reports for last year
. Do you want to see who is the 黔驴?
I can only talk about "I remember" with you, since you have not guts to
provide or look at the data. Just to let you know.

some
joke.

【在 l****b 的大作中提到】

: Full of “I remember...” and “I don’t remember...”. As if they were some
: real evidence. When asked for data, you will spin like a 黔驴. what a joke.
: Is forty nine your iq?
:
: easily
: I
: not

j****3
发帖数: 2836

107

你就不要以己度人了，你自己想当然的下结论就以为我也和你一样，还fit your
narratives? 你还真带着目的来这版上的？
我所知道的关于美国枪支的数据：全美每年1万多一点的用枪谋杀/杀人，30多万起使用
枪支的犯罪，以及50万到2百50万起的用枪自卫。这些数据都是正式的统计或者研究结
果，是有据可查的，不是我自己想当然以为或者自己去“研究”得出的数据。你要有硬
数据拿出来反驳我欢迎，没有的话就不要绕来绕去的扯些不沾边的了。

easily
I
not

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

F********r
发帖数: 878

108

You picked the numbers to fit your narratives. You really have guts to
accuse me of "带着目的来这版上". I even don't bother calling you that.
According to CDC, in 2018, the deaths by firearm was 38,390, but it was 1万
多 according to you. You did not include the deaths by accident and suicide
to downplay the number. (Just to give you a perspective, each year about
48,000 people die from suicide, and about half of them by using firearms.
Yet according to NIH, in 2019, 1.4 million adults in the US attempted
suicide. According to Harvard's School of Public Health, success rate of
suicide by firearm is about 82.5%, that corresponds to about 30,000 attempts
suicides by gun. 1.4 million minus 30k is still about 1.4 million. So out
of the 1.4 million attempts without using firearms, only about 24,000
succeeded. Without access to firearms, the vast majority of these 24,000
who died from suicide by using firearms would fail and stay alive, and
probably only about 500 of them would succeed and die if they proportionally
chose other methods.)
You also pick "50万到2百50万起的用枪自卫" to fit your narratives. Wiki
quotes three studies, and you "used" the highest one to overestimate self
defense with guns. Wiki also says this about the one you used, "The
methodology of the ... study has been criticized by some researchers ..."
The other two studies have the number of self-defenses with guns A LOT LOWER
. One done with data from 1987 to 1990 found that guns were used in defense
64,615 times per year. The other used data from 1977 to 1992 and found
that "approximately 1,570 murders would have been avoided yearly."
You also used 春秋笔法 to overestimate guns in self-defense. Even "50万到2
百50万起的用枪自卫" was true, the number of lives saved would be a lot
smaller. Each year about 8.1 million crimes are committed in the US, yet
only about 16,412 are homicides. So "50万到2百50万起的用枪自卫" corresponds
to 1,013 to 5,065 lives, even your overestimated number is true. Still
these numbers are about 7 to 38 times smaller than the number of deaths by
firearms.

【在 j****3 的大作中提到】

: 你就不要以己度人了，你自己想当然的下结论就以为我也和你一样，还fit your
: narratives? 你还真带着目的来这版上的？
: 我所知道的关于美国枪支的数据：全美每年1万多一点的用枪谋杀/杀人，30多万起使用
: 枪支的犯罪，以及50万到2百50万起的用枪自卫。这些数据都是正式的统计或者研究结
: 果，是有据可查的，不是我自己想当然以为或者自己去“研究”得出的数据。你要有硬
: 数据拿出来反驳我欢迎，没有的话就不要绕来绕去的扯些不沾边的了。
:
: easily
: I
: not

l****b
发帖数: 400

109

After being 黔驴for a long time, you finally learned to use some real data,
not based on your shitty memory. Good, but you failed to present a study to
show how a preventive measure can be calculated, even if I take a step back
and say your numbers are legit. Give you a hint, and see if your iq of 49
can handle: you just showed us say how many car accidents we have each year,
but you have not shown us how cars can or cannot save lives. Capiche?

suicide
attempts
out

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: You picked the numbers to fit your narratives. You really have guts to
: accuse me of "带着目的来这版上". I even don't bother calling you that.
: According to CDC, in 2018, the deaths by firearm was 38,390, but it was 1万
: 多 according to you. You did not include the deaths by accident and suicide
: to downplay the number. (Just to give you a perspective, each year about
: 48,000 people die from suicide, and about half of them by using firearms.
: Yet according to NIH, in 2019, 1.4 million adults in the US attempted
: suicide. According to Harvard's School of Public Health, success rate of
: suicide by firearm is about 82.5%, that corresponds to about 30,000 attempts
: suicides by gun. 1.4 million minus 30k is still about 1.4 million. So out

j****3
发帖数: 2836

110

你终于给出数据了，真不容易啊。问题是支持你的数据基本上逻辑都不成立。
1. 首先看自杀。自杀的数据我早就知道，但这里谈的是枪支用于犯罪和自卫的比较，
自杀和这个话题不相干。就算你要从拯救生命这个角度谈，数据也不支持你的论点。至
于瞎推论啥没枪自杀会减少很多纯粹是在滥煽情，没有一点可信性。
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate
美国自杀率是13.7，全世界高收入国家（人均年收入1.2万美元，占世界人口18%）的平
均自杀率是12.7，可以说是没区别。而且高收入国家中禁枪的韩国日本自杀率都高于美
国。真想死的人你是拦不住的。
2. 1994年NCVS的每年6万多起的自卫用枪调查逻辑上存在严重缺陷，已经不是统计误差
的事情了，而是整个调查设计都不合理。NCVS只调查了6种犯罪的受害者：rape,
robbery, assault, burglary, non-business larceny, and vehicle theft。这些犯
罪很多都是在住所以外发生的，而截止1994年，总共只有11个州颁发携枪证。前面也说
了，即使是今天，全美国每天带枪的人也只有3百万而已，如果受害者在外的时候手中
都没枪又怎么用枪自卫？
3. 至于你拿全美8.1百万犯罪里面有1万多起谋杀，来反推50万到2百50万自卫用枪中只
能拯救几千人就更是荒唐的不可思议了。先不说你这逻辑成不成立，首先你用的数据就
不对。这8.1百万是全部犯罪，直接威胁到人的生命安全犯罪的有多少？就拿burglary
来说，65%发生在家里没人的时候，还有那些砸路边车窗的犯罪，基本都是车主不在现
场的时候。这些案例应该用在你的计算中吗？

suicide
attempts
out

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

相关主题
● The Next Vice President	● Yes, Ted Cruz could win
● 民主党跟共和党的经济政策可以归结到一个简单的问题上	● Trump 忽悠的好几点根本不是美国总统权力范围内能做到的
● Dr. Ben Carson - GOP2016的希望, 希拉里的克星	● Koch Brother要支持hillary了
进入USANews版参与讨论

F********r
发帖数: 878

111

1. I showed you that when guns were not used in suicide, only 24,000 of the
1.4 million were dead. While using guns, 24,000 of 30,000 died. So this
23,000 (= 24,000 - 500) deaths also count for the gun-related deaths. If
you compare suicide rate against other developed countries, why don't you
compare gun violence against other countries? You still call yourself not
picking numbers?
2&3. So when you talk about gun violence, you want to exclude car theft and
other minor crimes, and when you talk about gun-related self defense, you
will include car theft and other minor crimes? Is it not picking numbers?
There are only about 1.2 million violent crimes in the US each year, your "
500k to 2.5 million self-defense with guns" would have prevented all the
violent crimes in the US, you believe that number includes only life-
threatening violent crimes? Yes, you believe because it fits your
narratives.

【在 j****3 的大作中提到】

: 你终于给出数据了，真不容易啊。问题是支持你的数据基本上逻辑都不成立。
: 1. 首先看自杀。自杀的数据我早就知道，但这里谈的是枪支用于犯罪和自卫的比较，
: 自杀和这个话题不相干。就算你要从拯救生命这个角度谈，数据也不支持你的论点。至
: 于瞎推论啥没枪自杀会减少很多纯粹是在滥煽情，没有一点可信性。
: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate
: 美国自杀率是13.7，全世界高收入国家（人均年收入1.2万美元，占世界人口18%）的平
: 均自杀率是12.7，可以说是没区别。而且高收入国家中禁枪的韩国日本自杀率都高于美
: 国。真想死的人你是拦不住的。
: 2. 1994年NCVS的每年6万多起的自卫用枪调查逻辑上存在严重缺陷，已经不是统计误差
: 的事情了，而是整个调查设计都不合理。NCVS只调查了6种犯罪的受害者：rape,

F********r
发帖数: 878

112

Roll to one side. If you have no guts to take the challenge, at least keep
you integrity and keep quiet and not be interrupting. When did you show
any data? You only know to demand. Too bad if you have a "demanding
destiny but a demanded life." Is this one of the rare opportunities when
you can demand, instead of being demanded? Yeah, take advantage of it. I
understand it, but your interruption is annoying. It will be better if you
offer data first, before demanding.

,
to
back
year,

【在 l****b 的大作中提到】

: After being 黔驴for a long time, you finally learned to use some real data,
: not based on your shitty memory. Good, but you failed to present a study to
: show how a preventive measure can be calculated, even if I take a step back
: and say your numbers are legit. Give you a hint, and see if your iq of 49
: can handle: you just showed us say how many car accidents we have each year,
: but you have not shown us how cars can or cannot save lives. Capiche?
:
: suicide
: attempts
: out

F********r
发帖数: 878

113

By the way, I started this thread by asking you guys how come we did not see
the good guys with their guns when these mass shootings happened. You
never gave me an answer and instead demanded me for stats. Some of you
quibbled that because of gun laws, not too many people actually carry guns,
therefore when these mass shootings happened, the good guys just happened to
be not there. OK, let me go easy on you. The LV shooting, how many people
were on the streets? Did they draw out their guns?

,
to
back
year,

【在 l****b 的大作中提到】

F********r
发帖数: 878

114

>>>总共只有11个州颁发携枪证。前面也说了，即使是今天，全美国每天带枪的人也只
有3百万而已
You own words explain why using gun for self defense is nothing but a dream,
"beautiful" dream. Is Cal one of your 11 states? You can carry concealed
weapon in Cal, as long as you get license. What is the population of these
11 states? 100 million? (Cal itself already has 39 million) Yet only 3
million of them carry guns on a daily basis. So 97% of the population still
do not carry gun. How can you argue that people can use guns for self
defense. Oh, you will say that those 3 million people can use guns for self
defense, but you forgot that it is more likely people become victims of gun
violence.
By the way, your numbers are deadly wrong. As of today, only five states
prohibit OPEN-carrying guns, and others are either allow or allow with
restriction or permit or license. And this is open, not concealed.

【在 j****3 的大作中提到】

j****3
发帖数: 2836

115

1. 和其他高收入国家比较自杀率，可以看出美国3亿多只枪并没有造成自杀率的实质性
变化，美国自杀率和其他高收入国家是一个水平的。所以拿自杀来反枪就不成立。你要
和其他国家比枪支暴力可以啊，但同时是不是也该比一下用枪支自卫的数据？看看，我
要比数据就是正反两边数据都比，而你却总是找反枪的数据来比，到底是谁在cherry
picking？
我不知道你的计算依据是怎么得来的，但你的结果显然是荒谬的。在40%多houshold都
有枪的美国，你认为1百40万企图自杀的人里面只有3万人有枪，呵呵，你觉得这可能吗？
2. 我没有叫你排除那些轻微犯罪，我只是要你排除那些没有受害人在现场的犯罪。比
如burlgary, 65%的发生时家里没人，就算罪犯想杀人也没人可杀，当然也不会有人在
家用枪自卫。车主不在现场的偷车或者砸车窗也是同样道理。那这些案件就不能用来计
算你自己编造的所谓“杀人/犯罪率”。这个道理很难懂吗？
3. 自卫用枪又不只是面对暴力犯罪时才使用，那枪吓跑小偷的也算在DGU里面。所以这
个50万到250万的DGU数据，和120万的暴力犯罪之间没有啥关联。你拿这两个数据比较
，完全是风马牛不相及。

the
and

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: 1. I showed you that when guns were not used in suicide, only 24,000 of the
: 1.4 million were dead. While using guns, 24,000 of 30,000 died. So this
: 23,000 (= 24,000 - 500) deaths also count for the gun-related deaths. If
: you compare suicide rate against other developed countries, why don't you
: compare gun violence against other countries? You still call yourself not
: picking numbers?
: 2&3. So when you talk about gun violence, you want to exclude car theft and
: other minor crimes, and when you talk about gun-related self defense, you
: will include car theft and other minor crimes? Is it not picking numbers?
: There are only about 1.2 million violent crimes in the US each year, your "

j****3
发帖数: 2836

116

那每天带枪的300万人里包括隐藏携带和公开携带。其中66%是始终隐藏携带，10%是始
终公开携带。所以我引用的数据一点没错。
如果可以带枪的地方一个人选择不带枪，那是他自己放弃在外自卫的权利，但在家里他
依然可以用枪自卫。所以用枪自卫并不是虚幻的梦，而是真实的存在。

dream,
concealed
these
still
self
gun

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: >>>总共只有11个州颁发携枪证。前面也说了，即使是今天，全美国每天带枪的人也只
: 有3百万而已
: You own words explain why using gun for self defense is nothing but a dream,
: "beautiful" dream. Is Cal one of your 11 states? You can carry concealed
: weapon in Cal, as long as you get license. What is the population of these
: 11 states? 100 million? (Cal itself already has 39 million) Yet only 3
: million of them carry guns on a daily basis. So 97% of the population still
: do not carry gun. How can you argue that people can use guns for self
: defense. Oh, you will say that those 3 million people can use guns for self
: defense, but you forgot that it is more likely people become victims of gun

F********r
发帖数: 878

117

1. It is fact that over 48,000 American lives were lost to suicide in 2018,
and 24,432 were done by firearms. Also, there were more than 1.4 million
suicide attempts by American adults. These are given by NIH.
https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/suicide.shtml
Harvard’s School of Public Health provides the case fatality rate of
suicide by firearms, it is 82.5%.
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/case-fatality/
It is not difficult to deduct that about only 520 of these 24,432 would
succeed and die if they didn’t have access to guns, assuming they chose
other methods proportionally. Of course, if you insist that they then would
choose jumping out of skyscrapers, then I have nothing to say.
2&3. Again, you count the minor crimes for gun-self-defense but tell me to
not count the minor crimes, such as burglary, for gun violence, and that is
not consistent. You either count them for both, or not count them for both
. How do you know the criminal does not have a gun when s/he breaks into
your home, even nobody is at home? With a gun, the criminal has the guts
to break in. Without a gun, she/he might not. A lot of the crimes, the
perpetrators have the courage to attack because they have guns. If you
count minor crimes for gun-self-defense, you also have to count them for gun
violence for this reason.

吗？

【在 j****3 的大作中提到】

: 1. 和其他高收入国家比较自杀率，可以看出美国3亿多只枪并没有造成自杀率的实质性
: 变化，美国自杀率和其他高收入国家是一个水平的。所以拿自杀来反枪就不成立。你要
: 和其他国家比枪支暴力可以啊，但同时是不是也该比一下用枪支自卫的数据？看看，我
: 要比数据就是正反两边数据都比，而你却总是找反枪的数据来比，到底是谁在cherry
: picking？
: 我不知道你的计算依据是怎么得来的，但你的结果显然是荒谬的。在40%多houshold都
: 有枪的美国，你认为1百40万企图自杀的人里面只有3万人有枪，呵呵，你觉得这可能吗？
: 2. 我没有叫你排除那些轻微犯罪，我只是要你排除那些没有受害人在现场的犯罪。比
: 如burlgary, 65%的发生时家里没人，就算罪犯想杀人也没人可杀，当然也不会有人在
: 家用枪自卫。车主不在现场的偷车或者砸车窗也是同样道理。那这些案件就不能用来计

F********r
发帖数: 878

118

>>>在40%多houshold都有枪的美国，你认为1百40万企图自杀的人里面只有3万人有枪，
呵呵，你觉得这可能吗？
You can tell me if it is possible after confirming data with the links I
provided on last post. You can go ahead and rebuke NIH's data or Harvard's
School of Public Health's study.

吗？

【在 j****3 的大作中提到】

F********r
发帖数: 878

119

About 300 million of US population are allowed to open carry, only 3 million
actually carry them, open or concealed. That shows how effective carrying
for self defense potentially can be. That shows how effective people see
carrying for self defense is. If people really believe they are effective,
most of them will carry them. I believe they can afford a couple hundred
dollars.
Yeah, saving life is real, not dream. It is just tiny, especially when
compared to the loss.

【在 j****3 的大作中提到】

: 那每天带枪的300万人里包括隐藏携带和公开携带。其中66%是始终隐藏携带，10%是始
: 终公开携带。所以我引用的数据一点没错。
: 如果可以带枪的地方一个人选择不带枪，那是他自己放弃在外自卫的权利，但在家里他
: 依然可以用枪自卫。所以用枪自卫并不是虚幻的梦，而是真实的存在。
:
: dream,
: concealed
: these
: still
: self

F********r
发帖数: 878

120

Again, if you are not convinced, how about I challenge you with a bet? Let'
s each name a mid-size city with about 500k population. We both comb
through both cities' last year's police reports. You look for the number of
times guns were used for self defense, and I look for the number of times
guns were used for crimes. We can also compare lives lost and saved. I
look for the number of lives of victims lost to guns in crimes and accidents
. (For this challenge, I even don't count suicides since I am confident
enough.) You look for the number of shootings where the shooters used guns
to kill someone but were not charged or acquitted. For this purpose, we
might want to go back to the year of 2015 to avoid pending cases.
I got more than MIT$6,000. You can name any amount up to that. Do you want
to do it? We can discuss more details if it is a go.

【在 j****3 的大作中提到】

相关主题
● 接下来右派的心愿	● Paul Ryan的黑材料
● 床普太难了	● 你们这帮neocon的奴才
● Gary Johnson - the real threat to Trump	● Trump Pussy事件的确打击大，不过左派也有失策
进入USANews版参与讨论

l****b
发帖数: 400

121

Answer is so simple: you with a iq of 49 is not worth my time, except a few
laughs. I told you I am here to expose idiots like you and not to convince
idiots like you. One last thing, I offered to provide data, as long as you
agree to kill your ID afterwards. Then I saw a spiny donkey show.
Ps, you type long posts with NO substance to make a living. I understand. I
am
making you rich. What is the complaint about?
You started the thread with your imagination, so trash talk is what you
deserve. Want to make a claim? Provide your data first and let’s judge.you
do know how to be scientific, right?

see
,
to
people

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: By the way, I started this thread by asking you guys how come we did not see
: the good guys with their guns when these mass shootings happened. You
: never gave me an answer and instead demanded me for stats. Some of you
: quibbled that because of gun laws, not too many people actually carry guns,
: therefore when these mass shootings happened, the good guys just happened to
: be not there. OK, let me go easy on you. The LV shooting, how many people
: were on the streets? Did they draw out their guns?
:
: ,
: to

F********r
发帖数: 878

122

Are you too stupid? I don't even know the quality of your data, and you
want me to kill my ID once you provide it? You can simply copy the data I
provided in this thread, or you can search any data in two minutes, and then
I kill my ID? Are you fucking serious?
How about modifying the bet to kill the loser's ID? Look at the bet two
posts back. Do you have guts to take it? If I lost, I kill my ID. If you
lose, you kill your ID. Guts or not? Show me you are not a coward. Don't
reply that you have no time, I will understand it as you have no guts, and
you know that too.
If you have no guts, just get lost and don't annoy me like a gnat again.
Otherwise I will throw this bet on you each time I see you here.

few
I
you

【在 l****b 的大作中提到】

: Answer is so simple: you with a iq of 49 is not worth my time, except a few
: laughs. I told you I am here to expose idiots like you and not to convince
: idiots like you. One last thing, I offered to provide data, as long as you
: agree to kill your ID afterwards. Then I saw a spiny donkey show.
: Ps, you type long posts with NO substance to make a living. I understand. I
: am
: making you rich. What is the complaint about?
: You started the thread with your imagination, so trash talk is what you
: deserve. Want to make a claim? Provide your data first and let’s judge.you
: do know how to be scientific, right?

F********r
发帖数: 878

123

>>>Provide your data first and let’s judge.you do know how to be scientific
, right?
Look at my post 109, 112, 115, & 118, stupid. I know you are stupid, but I
don't know you are also blind. Your eyes are on your head, not in your
pants, right?

few
I
you

【在 l****b 的大作中提到】

l****b
发帖数: 400

124

You wanted to prove no lives guns can save and you provided data on how many
guns kill. Yeah bravo- brilliant logic. I told you, you need to explain
this as an analogy:
cars kill people too, number of car accidents doesn’t show how many lives
car
can save. Period. If you want me to how data on how many lives guns can save
,
swear on it and say you would kill your ID and I can show you. Otherwise,
you can keep your spiny donkey show to make a living

scientific
I

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: >>>Provide your data first and let’s judge.you do know how to be scientific
: , right?
: Look at my post 109, 112, 115, & 118, stupid. I know you are stupid, but I
: don't know you are also blind. Your eyes are on your head, not in your
: pants, right?
:
: few
: I
: you

j****3
发帖数: 2836

125

1. 呵呵，我不需要去dispute NIH和Harvard的数据，我只需要证明你的推论过程是错
误的就行了。你以为拿两个权威机构的数据，简单的做做加减乘除就能得出重大的结论
？too simple, sometimes naive。事情真要这么简单，还等着你来发现。
这里我就指出你的推论中最明显最直接相关的两处错误。你的推论要成立，基本条件之
一就是所有的有枪的人自杀时都用枪，这样如果没枪的话，他们会像那些没枪的自杀者
一样选择自杀方式，只有这样你的所谓能拯救23，000人的推论才成立。这个假设显然
是荒谬的。
140万自杀者中，按比例应该有大约60万人家里有枪，但只有3万人选择用枪自杀，不过
是5%而已。说明这3万人是自杀者中那种铁石心肠的狠角色，是一定要把自己弄死的人
，哪怕场面手段惨烈也在所不惜。这种人手里每了枪，也一定会选其他手段确保弄死自
己。即使没枪也救不了这些人。不信？看看日本的数据，日本自杀者中上吊死的占60%
，高于美国用枪自杀的54%，上吊自杀的致死率是83%，略高于美国用枪的82.5%。而美
国上吊自杀的致死率只有60%，比日本的致死率低了25%多，啥原因？难道是因为美国胖
子太多，绳子经不起重量被拉断了才没死成，哈哈哈。。。
其实原因就是这些铁了心要弄死自己的人，会用最可靠的方式弄死自己。在美国人看来
这个最可靠的方式是枪，在日本因为没枪，最可靠的方式就是上吊。这两种方式在自己
国家自杀案例中占的比例和致死率如此接近，就说明枪对自杀的影响可以忽略不计。
2. 别转换话题啊，下面是你说的吧？
Each year about 8.1 million crimes are committed in the US, yet
only about 16,412 are homicides. So "50万到2百50万起的用枪自卫" corresponds
to 1,013 to 5,065 lives, even your overestimated number is true. Still
these numbers are about 7 to 38 times smaller than the number of deaths by
firearms.
我叫你在计算你杜撰的“杀人/犯罪率”时要去掉没有受害者在场的犯罪才合理，你无
法回应这点，结果你现在开始扯啥犯罪中使用枪支的比率，这和犯罪中杀人的比率完全
两码事。你被我指出你前面简单类比推论中的错误后，就开始转换题目就不地道了吧。

2018,
would

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: 1. It is fact that over 48,000 American lives were lost to suicide in 2018,
: and 24,432 were done by firearms. Also, there were more than 1.4 million
: suicide attempts by American adults. These are given by NIH.
: https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/suicide.shtml
: Harvard’s School of Public Health provides the case fatality rate of
: suicide by firearms, it is 82.5%.
: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/case-fatality/
: It is not difficult to deduct that about only 520 of these 24,432 would
: succeed and die if they didn’t have access to guns, assuming they chose
: other methods proportionally. Of course, if you insist that they then would

j****3
发帖数: 2836

126

虽然绝大部分人在外不带枪，但在家依然会用枪自卫，每年有50万到250万用枪自卫的
案例，到底多少是挽救了生命的自卫案例我不知道，但和每年被罪犯用枪杀掉的1万多
人比，绝对不会是tiny。而且你要认为没枪这1万人就不会死的话，那你还得证明如果
罪犯没枪的话，这1万多人不会被罪犯用刀，棍棒，甚至拳头杀掉，呵呵，你能证明吗？

million
carrying
,

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: About 300 million of US population are allowed to open carry, only 3 million
: actually carry them, open or concealed. That shows how effective carrying
: for self defense potentially can be. That shows how effective people see
: carrying for self defense is. If people really believe they are effective,
: most of them will carry them. I believe they can afford a couple hundred
: dollars.
: Yeah, saving life is real, not dream. It is just tiny, especially when
: compared to the loss.

j****3
发帖数: 2836

127

你别搞笑了行不？那么多权威机构的数据放着不用，用你个人随便搜出来的一个两个数
据点来做结论，呵呵。如果你当年大一的课堂作业也是这么给论据的话，你老师没fail
你那就是在误人子弟。

Let'
of
accidents
guns

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: Again, if you are not convinced, how about I challenge you with a bet? Let'
: s each name a mid-size city with about 500k population. We both comb
: through both cities' last year's police reports. You look for the number of
: times guns were used for self defense, and I look for the number of times
: guns were used for crimes. We can also compare lives lost and saved. I
: look for the number of lives of victims lost to guns in crimes and accidents
: . (For this challenge, I even don't count suicides since I am confident
: enough.) You look for the number of shootings where the shooters used guns
: to kill someone but were not charged or acquitted. For this purpose, we
: might want to go back to the year of 2015 to avoid pending cases.

F********r
发帖数: 878

128

You stupid. When did I say guns saved no lives? I simply said the lives
saved by gun in self defense were a lot fewer than the lives lost to gun
violence. Don't twist my words.
Do you have guts to bet?

many
save

【在 l****b 的大作中提到】

: You wanted to prove no lives guns can save and you provided data on how many
: guns kill. Yeah bravo- brilliant logic. I told you, you need to explain
: this as an analogy:
: cars kill people too, number of car accidents doesn’t show how many lives
: car
: can save. Period. If you want me to how data on how many lives guns can save
: ,
: swear on it and say you would kill your ID and I can show you. Otherwise,
: you can keep your spiny donkey show to make a living
:

F********r
发帖数: 878

129

As I said, nobody can convince each other. We all pay too much attention to
our own evidences. Your evidence means nothing to me too, just like mine
to you. You say my argument is flawed, and I say yours lack logic and
consistency.
So want to have some fun and take the bet? That at least will have a winner
and a loser.

【在 j****3 的大作中提到】

: 1. 呵呵，我不需要去dispute NIH和Harvard的数据，我只需要证明你的推论过程是错
: 误的就行了。你以为拿两个权威机构的数据，简单的做做加减乘除就能得出重大的结论
: ？too simple, sometimes naive。事情真要这么简单，还等着你来发现。
: 这里我就指出你的推论中最明显最直接相关的两处错误。你的推论要成立，基本条件之
: 一就是所有的有枪的人自杀时都用枪，这样如果没枪的话，他们会像那些没枪的自杀者
: 一样选择自杀方式，只有这样你的所谓能拯救23，000人的推论才成立。这个假设显然
: 是荒谬的。
: 140万自杀者中，按比例应该有大约60万人家里有枪，但只有3万人选择用枪自杀，不过
: 是5%而已。说明这3万人是自杀者中那种铁石心肠的狠角色，是一定要把自己弄死的人
: ，哪怕场面手段惨烈也在所不惜。这种人手里每了枪，也一定会选其他手段确保弄死自

F********r
发帖数: 878

130

Let's not 搞笑, coward. Do you have guts to take the bet? You keep
avoiding this question.
在 jhe123 (jhe) 的大作中提到: 】
fail

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j****3
发帖数: 2836

131

你尽管嘴硬号称谁也说服不了谁。现在情况是你的推论全被我驳倒，而你对我的驳斥无
法再反驳，只能靠场面话撑门面了。

to
winner

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: As I said, nobody can convince each other. We all pay too much attention to
: our own evidences. Your evidence means nothing to me too, just like mine
: to you. You say my argument is flawed, and I say yours lack logic and
: consistency.
: So want to have some fun and take the bet? That at least will have a winner
: and a loser.

j****3
发帖数: 2836

132

呵呵，看清人了再发飙，我啥时候叫你自杀ID了？

that
Coward?

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: Let's not 搞笑, coward. Do you have guts to take the bet? You keep
: avoiding this question.
: 在 jhe123 (jhe) 的大作中提到: 】
: fail

F********r
发帖数: 878

133

I am feeling like talking to dumb wood, that's why I give up. If you are so
sure, why not take my bet? You have not guts?

【在 j****3 的大作中提到】

: 你尽管嘴硬号称谁也说服不了谁。现在情况是你的推论全被我驳倒，而你对我的驳斥无
: 法再反驳，只能靠场面话撑门面了。
:
: to
: winner

F********r
发帖数: 878

134

That reply was not to you.
I called the ohter guy coward, and I have not yet called you that.
Oh, I just checked, it looks like either I clicked on the wrong post to
reply or MITBBS screwed up. My apology.

【在 j****3 的大作中提到】

: 呵呵，看清人了再发飙，我啥时候叫你自杀ID了？
:
: that
: Coward?

j****3
发帖数: 2836

135

OK，既然你放弃了继续用数据和逻辑证明你的观点，其他的你说啥也就无关紧要了。

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: That reply was not to you.
: I called the ohter guy coward, and I have not yet called you that.
: Oh, I just checked, it looks like either I clicked on the wrong post to
: reply or MITBBS screwed up. My apology.

F********r
发帖数: 878

136

You thought you did, but you failed. It's just waste of my time. Whatever
I put out, you can always have something to say. The same, whatever you put
out, I can always have something else to say. So let's not waste time for
something unproductive.
A bet will be good. There is at least some motivation for me, the MIT$. At
least I don't feel like wasting my time. If you are so sure you are right,
why not take the bet?

【在 j****3 的大作中提到】

: 你尽管嘴硬号称谁也说服不了谁。现在情况是你的推论全被我驳倒，而你对我的驳斥无
: 法再反驳，只能靠场面话撑门面了。
:
: to
: winner

F********r
发帖数: 878

137

What? You have not guts to take the bet because you cannot lose your ID
that you need to make 50 cents?

many
save

【在 l****b 的大作中提到】

l****b
发帖数: 400

138

Ok fine. Let’s just bet on this. Swear on this and I will show you data. Or
, are you gonna pull this one out again: “you thought you did but you
failed”? I am sure a spiny donkey like you has a solution to all problems.
Thick skin you have there.

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: You stupid. When did I say guns saved no lives? I simply said the lives
: saved by gun in self defense were a lot fewer than the lives lost to gun
: violence. Don't twist my words.
: Do you have guts to bet?
:
: many
: save

l****b
发帖数: 400

139

Iq of 49 lives up your reputation. Mad dog starts to bark like no tomorrow
lol

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

F********r
发帖数: 878

140

Just tell me the answer. Do you have guts to take the bet or not?
It is not a difficult question. Since you sound so "confident", why not
take the bet and beat me so that I kill my ID? Don't you want that? Ah,
you are afraid and you know that you will lose your ID. You need it to get
your 50 cents? You don't like working for CCP. Are you working for 港灿 or
Wheeler？ You can shut me up by accepting the bet, then I will be busy
searching for data and don't have time to trash talk with you anymore.

【在 l****b 的大作中提到】

: Iq of 49 lives up your reputation. Mad dog starts to bark like no tomorrow
: lol

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进入USANews版参与讨论

F********r
发帖数: 878

141

You have time, you just don't have guts.

【在 l****b 的大作中提到】

: Iq of 49 lives up your reputation. Mad dog starts to bark like no tomorrow
: lol

l****b
发帖数: 400

142

Are you blind?
“Ok fine. Let’s just bet on this. Swear on this and I will show you data.
Or
, are you gonna pull this one out again: “you thought you did but you
failed”? I am sure a spiny donkey like you has a solution to all problems.
Thick skin you have there.”

get
or

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: Just tell me the answer. Do you have guts to take the bet or not?
: It is not a difficult question. Since you sound so "confident", why not
: take the bet and beat me so that I kill my ID? Don't you want that? Ah,
: you are afraid and you know that you will lose your ID. You need it to get
: your 50 cents? You don't like working for CCP. Are you working for 港灿 or
: Wheeler？ You can shut me up by accepting the bet, then I will be busy
: searching for data and don't have time to trash talk with you anymore.

F********r
发帖数: 878

143

You are not just a coward, you are also a fool. Do you expect anyone to
kill his/her ID simply you are going to show some crappy data? Nobody knows
the quality of your data. It's been several days, nobody has seen any data
from you. So far you only have cheap lip service. Typical for trumpers.
You guys even don't show evidence in the courts. How can I expect you to
show evidence here? Foolish me.
Coward. Bet or not? Here is another bet for you. I bet you have no guts
to take my previous bet.

.

【在 l****b 的大作中提到】

: Are you blind?
: “Ok fine. Let’s just bet on this. Swear on this and I will show you data.
: Or
: , are you gonna pull this one out again: “you thought you did but you
: failed”? I am sure a spiny donkey like you has a solution to all problems.
: Thick skin you have there.”
:
: get
: or

l****b
发帖数: 400

144

Haha you are real price of work. I am the one who casted the bet first and
you are flipping the question to me? What bet are you talking about?

knows
data

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: You are not just a coward, you are also a fool. Do you expect anyone to
: kill his/her ID simply you are going to show some crappy data? Nobody knows
: the quality of your data. It's been several days, nobody has seen any data
: from you. So far you only have cheap lip service. Typical for trumpers.
: You guys even don't show evidence in the courts. How can I expect you to
: show evidence here? Foolish me.
: Coward. Bet or not? Here is another bet for you. I bet you have no guts
: to take my previous bet.
:
: .

F********r
发帖数: 878

145

Each one of us choose a mid-size city with about 200k to 500k population.
We both comb through both cities' police reports for the year of 2015, or
any other year you like. To avoid pending cases, we need to go back at
least several years.
1. You look for the number of times guns were used for self defense, and I
look for the number of times guns were used by the criminals.
2. We can also compare lives lost and saved. I look for the number of
lives of victims lost to guns in crimes and accidents. (For this challenge,
I even don't count suicides since I am confident enough.) You look for the
number of shootings where the shooters used guns to kill someone but were
not charged or acquitted.
3. Same as 2, except that we are looking for number of wounded, in stead of
dead.
Of course, we compare the numbers per capita to account for the different
size of the two cities, then we take the average of the numbers of the two
cities. Whoever wins at least two of the above three is the winner. The
loser kills his/her ID on MITBBS.
So bet or not? We can discuss more details (names of cities and time frame)
if it is a go.

【在 l****b 的大作中提到】

: Haha you are real price of work. I am the one who casted the bet first and
: you are flipping the question to me? What bet are you talking about?
:
: knows
: data
:

l****b
发帖数: 400

146

Wow, your master gave you this shit? Year of 2015? why not 1990, or 2020,
and also define the state, county, and average temperature? You won’t take
my bet because my term is not fair and you think your shit is fair? Good job
, man. Your master is really proud of you. Ok you win. Now I know why they
say that idiots will bog you down with shitty details.

I
challenge,
the

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: Each one of us choose a mid-size city with about 200k to 500k population.
: We both comb through both cities' police reports for the year of 2015, or
: any other year you like. To avoid pending cases, we need to go back at
: least several years.
: 1. You look for the number of times guns were used for self defense, and I
: look for the number of times guns were used by the criminals.
: 2. We can also compare lives lost and saved. I look for the number of
: lives of victims lost to guns in crimes and accidents. (For this challenge,
: I even don't count suicides since I am confident enough.) You look for the
: number of shootings where the shooters used guns to kill someone but were

F********r
发帖数: 878

147

As I said, any other year you like. I randomly mention 2015 to allow time
for any case to be settled down in court to know if a shooting is justified
therefore can be considered as self defense. If you don't like 2015, name
any year you like.
If you don't think my bet is fair, negotiate with me so that we both agree
that it is fair. That will be real numbers to see if guns have taken more
lives or saved more lives. Again, each one of us choose a city, so to me,
that sounds fair. You are welcomed to choose one to your advantage. I am
confident that I can beat you easily. If you are so sure about guns for
self defense, you should have the guts to take the bet.
Yet your bet of simply providing some data for me to kill my ID is beyond
being fair. "No reasonable people", as Powell puts it, will consider it
fair.

take
job

【在 l****b 的大作中提到】

: Wow, your master gave you this shit? Year of 2015? why not 1990, or 2020,
: and also define the state, county, and average temperature? You won’t take
: my bet because my term is not fair and you think your shit is fair? Good job
: , man. Your master is really proud of you. Ok you win. Now I know why they
: say that idiots will bog you down with shitty details.
:
: I
: challenge,
: the

l****b
发帖数: 400

148

Oh how convenient. I need to negotiate a term from you and then spend time
on it? Are you paying on my hourly basis? You are well trained. Your master
is very happy with your performance. Let’s do this, one thing at a time.
since I asked you first, why don’t you answer me first: do you have the
guts to take my bet? Oh you don’t think my bet is fair? It doesn’t take my
time or your time, and let’s just find some online data. and what do you
expect?

justified

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: As I said, any other year you like. I randomly mention 2015 to allow time
: for any case to be settled down in court to know if a shooting is justified
: therefore can be considered as self defense. If you don't like 2015, name
: any year you like.
: If you don't think my bet is fair, negotiate with me so that we both agree
: that it is fair. That will be real numbers to see if guns have taken more
: lives or saved more lives. Again, each one of us choose a city, so to me,
: that sounds fair. You are welcomed to choose one to your advantage. I am
: confident that I can beat you easily. If you are so sure about guns for
: self defense, you should have the guts to take the bet.

F********r
发帖数: 878

149

You have time, you just have no guts.
What is your bet? Is there another one that I am not aware of? I will take
it if it is fair. If it is not fair, we can renegotiate. For something to
be fair, if one proposes it, he/she must be ok to exchange the positions of
the two parties involved or something like that.

master
my

【在 l****b 的大作中提到】

: Oh how convenient. I need to negotiate a term from you and then spend time
: on it? Are you paying on my hourly basis? You are well trained. Your master
: is very happy with your performance. Let’s do this, one thing at a time.
: since I asked you first, why don’t you answer me first: do you have the
: guts to take my bet? Oh you don’t think my bet is fair? It doesn’t take my
: time or your time, and let’s just find some online data. and what do you
: expect?
:
: justified

l****b
发帖数: 400

150

I do have time but it is not free. Man you really have an iq of 49.
My bet is simple, I provide data that is free online (no one is spending
time), and if it is reasonable, you kill your I’d. But see your response
was not to negotiate. You just declined right away, which reflects your true
color

take
to
of

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: You have time, you just have no guts.
: What is your bet? Is there another one that I am not aware of? I will take
: it if it is fair. If it is not fair, we can renegotiate. For something to
: be fair, if one proposes it, he/she must be ok to exchange the positions of
: the two parties involved or something like that.
:
: master
: my

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F********r
发帖数: 878

151

In order to be fair, you must agree that when I say to you "I provide data
that is free online (no one is spending time), and if it is reasonable, you
kill your ID." Will you kill your ID when I provide data "that is free
online (no one is spending time), and if it is reasonable"? You think the
bet is fair when it applies to me, but not when applied to you? If you say
it is not fair when I say this to you, what makes you think it is a fair bet
when you say it to me?
See? You are so stupid. You cannot even throw a fair bet.

【在 l****b 的大作中提到】

: I do have time but it is not free. Man you really have an iq of 49.
: My bet is simple, I provide data that is free online (no one is spending
: time), and if it is reasonable, you kill your I’d. But see your response
: was not to negotiate. You just declined right away, which reflects your true
: color
:
: take
: to
: of

l****b
发帖数: 400

152

Sure I agree. In fact I have been asking for data from day 1. You know what
you provided? How many gun related death there is. Did you find out how many
death guns can prevent?
You know what, you are not paying shit for my time. Why am I wasting time
with you? I would just call out you idiot, when you show off your iq of 49.
Happy?

you

【在 F********r 的大作中提到】

: In order to be fair, you must agree that when I say to you "I provide data
: that is free online (no one is spending time), and if it is reasonable, you
: kill your ID." Will you kill your ID when I provide data "that is free
: online (no one is spending time), and if it is reasonable"? You think the
: bet is fair when it applies to me, but not when applied to you? If you say
: it is not fair when I say this to you, what makes you think it is a fair bet
: when you say it to me?
: See? You are so stupid. You cannot even throw a fair bet.

F********r
发帖数: 878

153

So now we both agree a fair bet that if I answer these two questions, you
will kill your ID?
1. How many gun related death there is.
2. Did you find out how many death guns can prevent?

what
many
.

【在 l****b 的大作中提到】

: Sure I agree. In fact I have been asking for data from day 1. You know what
: you provided? How many gun related death there is. Did you find out how many
: death guns can prevent?
: You know what, you are not paying shit for my time. Why am I wasting time
: with you? I would just call out you idiot, when you show off your iq of 49.
: Happy?
:
: you

(共1页)

进入USANews版参与讨论

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