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USANews版 - ZT: Ted Cruz Has a Real Birther Problem
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话题: cruz话题: mccain话题: born话题: senator话题: ted
1 (共1页)
m********g
发帖数: 10469
1
Ted Cruz Has a Real Birther Problem
13 Jan 13, 2016 3:32 PM EST
By Francis Wilkinson
When Senator John McCain was running for president in 2008, his campaign
experienced turbulence over an issue currently vexing the campaign of
Senator Ted Cruz: the phrase in the Constitution stipulating that the
president must be a "natural born citizen."
There are conflicting legal views (naturally) about what that means. Law
professor Gabriel Chin of the University of California at Davis wrote a
paper arguing that McCain's birth outside U.S. borders, in the Canal Zone,
made him ineligible for the presidency. Donald Trump, a birther's birther,
is now making a similar claim about Senator Ted Cruz. As my Bloomberg View
colleague, Harvard law professor Cass Sunstein, wrote this week:
As just about everyone knows by now, Senator Ted Cruz was born in Canada
, to a Cuban-born father and a mother who was a U.S. citizen. Cruz held
Canadian citizenship for nearly all of his life, relinquishing it only in
2014, when he was planning to run for the presidency. Is he eligible to hold
the office he seeks?
I asked Trevor Potter, a former Federal Elections Commission chairman who
was the general counsel of McCain's presidential campaign, about that
campaign's research into McCain's eligibility, and what it might tell us
about Cruz's situation. McCain is no champion of Cruz. But Potter studied
the issue carefully. Bottom line: It's dicier than you might think.
Wilkinson: How seriously did you take claims that John McCain might not
qualify as a "natural born" citizen?
Potter: We looked carefully into the issue early on. We were aware of the
question being raised in earlier presidential campaigns. Barry Goldwater was
born in a "territory" of the U.S., and George Romney was born in Mexico to
two American-born parents.
We consulted constitutional law professors. As you know, we had an opinion
from Ted Olson and Larry Tribe that confirmed our understanding that John
McCain's birth -- to two American parents on a U.S. military base in a U.S.-
controlled territory -- was as close to the historic English understanding
of the term "natural born citizen" as possible.
Wilkinson: Those are a lot of supporting factors: U.S. parents on a U.S.
military base in a U.S.-controlled territory. Despite all that, the McCain
legal team was still concerned about the definition of "natural born citizen
" and whether a legal challenge to a McCain presidency might be upheld?
Potter: Given the results of the research, we were very comfortable that we
would win any legal challenge. What was less clear is who would have
standing to bring a legal challenge, and at what stage in the process. The
campaign actually responded to several suits, and all were dismissed by the
courts.
Wilkinson: Would you have the same degree of confidence if your candidate --
just thinking out of the blue here -- had been born in Canada of one
American parent?
Potter: We believed that Senator McCain's birth made his situation
absolutely congruent with English precedents at the time the Constitution
was adopted. The founders used the English phrase "natural born citizen,"
which had that same common meaning. Any divergence from Senator McCain's
particular circumstances by definition changes the facts, and takes us
further away from the common law meaning circa 1789.
One American parent and one foreign parent; a birth in a foreign country and
not on a U.S. base; and not while the parents were in the service of the
nation; dual citizenship for an entire adult life -- all of those facts are
certainly different from Senator McCain's case.
Wilkinson: So is it fair to say that you were comfortable with McCain's
circumstances in 2008 but you would not be able to apply your conclusions
from that experience to the very different circumstances of Senator Cruz?
Potter: After conducting our legal analysis of the term "natural born
citizen" we were very comfortable with Senator McCain's eligibility based on
multiple factors. Without those specific factors -- two U.S. citizen
parents, birth on a U.S. base on U.S.-controlled territory -- our comfort
level that the candidate met the constitutional requirement would have
declined.
T*********I
发帖数: 10729
2
的确不是个简单的回答。
根据1790年的这个是对CRUZ最有力的支持。但是,不少人认为这个natrual born的解释
会是controversial。TRUMP的评估是risk,这也是合理的。给CRUZ支招是去法院要求
declaratory judgement。
In terms of the American founding itself, there is no clear support for
either the narrow or the broader interpretation. Those who favor the latter
point to the Naturalization Act of 1790, which states that "the children of
citizens of the United States … shall be considered as natural born
citizens." The act adds an exception, which is that "the right of
citizenship shall not descend to persons whose fathers have never been
resident in the United States."
The Naturalization Act is the strongest argument for Cruz. Written in the
immediate aftermath of the ratification of the Constitution, it was embraced
by many people who were involved in drafting the founding document. (
Because Rafael Cruz had resided in Texas, his son would count as natural
born under the act.)
http://www.northjersey.com/opinion/opinion-guest-writers/is-cru
c*******o
发帖数: 8869
3
"the children of citizens of the United States … shall be considered as
natural born citizens."
"shall be considered"意思是cruz“可以被视为”natural born citizen,恰恰说明
他不是真正的natural born citizen.
下面这篇文章已经从法源上枪毙了cruz
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ted-cruz-is-not-eligible-to-be-
president/2016/01/12/1484a7d0-b7af-11e5-99f3-184bc379b12d_story.html

latter
of

【在 T*********I 的大作中提到】
: 的确不是个简单的回答。
: 根据1790年的这个是对CRUZ最有力的支持。但是,不少人认为这个natrual born的解释
: 会是controversial。TRUMP的评估是risk,这也是合理的。给CRUZ支招是去法院要求
: declaratory judgement。
: In terms of the American founding itself, there is no clear support for
: either the narrow or the broader interpretation. Those who favor the latter
: point to the Naturalization Act of 1790, which states that "the children of
: citizens of the United States … shall be considered as natural born
: citizens." The act adds an exception, which is that "the right of
: citizenship shall not descend to persons whose fathers have never been

T*********I
发帖数: 10729
4
你那个链接我回头看。
不过1790年的那句,shall be considered as natural born citizens就是法律承认是
natural born citizen的意思。并不是你说的“不是真正的natural born citizen”

【在 c*******o 的大作中提到】
: "the children of citizens of the United States … shall be considered as
: natural born citizens."
: "shall be considered"意思是cruz“可以被视为”natural born citizen,恰恰说明
: 他不是真正的natural born citizen.
: 下面这篇文章已经从法源上枪毙了cruz
: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ted-cruz-is-not-eligible-to-be-
: president/2016/01/12/1484a7d0-b7af-11e5-99f3-184bc379b12d_story.html
:
: latter
: of

T*********I
发帖数: 10729
5
我觉得你连接里论证的这个点非常薄弱。“Cruz was naturalized at birth.”这相当
牵强。
如果CRUZ没有经过naturalization这个手续,如果不是natrual born,怎么解释他却是
美国公民?原作者搞了好多弯。但是我认为经不住推敲。automatic acquisition of
citizenship。那一个在美国生的(即狭义的符合natural born条款的人)也实际上是
automatic被赋予了citizenship。也是要经过测试:To become a citizen at birth,
you must have been born in the United States。所以多绕这个弯子并不hurt CRUZ
的情况。
Cruz is, of course, a U.S. citizen. As he was born in Canada, he is not
natural-born. His mother, however, is an American, and Congress has provided
by statute for the naturalization of children born abroad to citizens.
Because of the senator’s parentage, he did not have to follow the lengthy
naturalization process that aliens without American parents must undergo.
Instead, Cruz was naturalized at birth.
针锋相对地,这篇 Yes, Ted Cruz is a ‘natural born citizen’
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/01/07/yes-ted-
cruz-is-a-natural-born-citizen/

【在 c*******o 的大作中提到】
: "the children of citizens of the United States … shall be considered as
: natural born citizens."
: "shall be considered"意思是cruz“可以被视为”natural born citizen,恰恰说明
: 他不是真正的natural born citizen.
: 下面这篇文章已经从法源上枪毙了cruz
: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ted-cruz-is-not-eligible-to-be-
: president/2016/01/12/1484a7d0-b7af-11e5-99f3-184bc379b12d_story.html
:
: latter
: of

1 (共1页)
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相关话题的讨论汇总
话题: cruz话题: mccain话题: born话题: senator话题: ted