T*********I
发帖数: 10729 | 1 You have two families: " Joe Legal" and " Jose Illegal."
Both families have two parents, two children, and live in California.
Joe Legal works in construction, has a Social Security Number and makes $25.
00 per hour with taxes deducted.
Jose Illegal also works in construction, has NO Social Security Number, and
gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table."
Ready? Now pay attention....
Joe Legal: $25.00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week, or $52,000.00 per
year. Now take 30% away for state and federal tax; Joe Legal now has $31,
231.00.
Jose Illegal: $15.00 per hour x 40 hours = $600.00 per week, or $31,200.0 0
per year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes. Jose Illegal now has $31,200.00.
Joe Legal pays medical and dental insurance with limited coverage for his
family at $600.00 per month, or $7,200.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $24,
031.00.
Jose Illegal has full medical and dental coverage through the state and
local clinics and emergency hospitals at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose
Illegal still has $31,200.00.
Joe Legal makes too much money and is not eligible for food stamps or
welfare. Joe Legal pays $500.00 per month for food, or $6,000.00 per year.
Joe Legal now has $18,031.00.
Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for food stamps, WIC
and welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.
Joe Legal pays rent of $1,200.00 per month, or $14,400.00 per year. Joe
Legal now has 9,631 .00.
Jose Illegal receives a $500.00 per month Federal Rent Subsidy. Jose Illegal
pays out that $500.00 per month, or $6,000.00 per year. Jose Illegal still
has $ 31,200.00.
Joe Legal pays $200.00 per month, or $2,400.00 for car insurance. Some of
that is uninsured motorist insurance. Jose Illegal says, "We don't need no
stinkin' insurance!" and still has $31,200.00.
Joe Legal has to make his $7,231.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, etc.
Jose Illegal has to make his $31,200.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline,
and what he sends out of the country every month..
Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after work
. Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.
Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same elementary
school. Joe Legal pays for his children's lunches, while Jose Illegal's
children get a government sponsored lunch. Jose Illegal's children have an
after school ESL program. Joe Legal's children go home.
Now, when they reach college age, Joe Legal's kids may not get into a State
School and may not qualify for scholarships, grants or other tuition help,
even though Joe has been paying for State Schools through his taxes, while
Jose Illegal's kids "go to the head of the class" because they are a
minority.
Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same police and fire services, but
Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay.
Do you get it, now?
If you vote for or support any politician that supports illegal aliens...you
are part of the problem!
We need to keep this going--we need to make changes ASAP!
It's way PAST time to take a stand for America and Americans!
加一点，国债上每个纳税人欠 十五万四千 美元。
Joe Legal和他的孩子们每个人都欠 十五万四千 美元。而Jose Illegal 和他的15个孩
子什么都不欠。
http://www.usdebtclock.org/ |
E**********l
发帖数: 264 | 2 冒个泡吧，看完这个想起之前的一个小故事，也解开了多年的一个小疑惑：
那是06年我还在读书的时候，房东老太太已退休多年，腿脚不便，周末常请一个南美大
姐，叫Victoria，来打扫草坪，也是15块/小时。Victoria叫老太太mami，很听话。老
太太说Victoria是几年前从秘鲁还是委内瑞拉偷渡来的，当时无家可归，在她家门口不
远哭泣，老太太给她吃住，救济了她一段时间，然后她开始帮附近的人打扫，活还挺多
，大概都是15块/小时。经常还有些小费。
老太太说到这的时候笑了，是愉快的那种，说Victoria前不久已经买了个house，孩子
好像也过来了，现在请她来打扫有时请不来，她会告诉老太太说“sorry mami, I am
on vacation now...”
我一直有些疑惑，15块/小时，要买house怎么可能。现在一算，这一年攒3万多，和我
博士毕业时第一份码工工作10万出头的年薪效果还真差不多... 而且当时只是租六百多
的小屋，每周至少三天加班到晚上10点半才能回家。 |
l******t
发帖数: 12659 | |
c***z
发帖数: 6348 | 4 Guys, there is some problem in how we view the case.
We should improve the life of Joe Legal; instead of demonizing Jose Illegal.
Joe should have higher salary, pay no income tax, have cheaper insurance,
etc
Joe Legal = have nothing
Jose Illegal = have nothing but a little
Jack the Boss = have lots
Joe and Jose should ask more from Jack; now Jack is pitting Joe (have
nothing) v.s. Jose (have little), so that he can watch from a safe distance.
An analogy is IT workers (who earn slightly more than average) v.s. other
workers. If IT workers and other workers fight each other, it is the best
for no one but the capitalists. |
T*********I
发帖数: 10729 | 5 犯法的反而要被你保护，合法的富人却要被你妖魔化。
Illegal.
【在 c***z 的大作中提到】
: Guys, there is some problem in how we view the case.
: We should improve the life of Joe Legal; instead of demonizing Jose Illegal.
: Joe should have higher salary, pay no income tax, have cheaper insurance,
: etc
: Joe Legal = have nothing
: Jose Illegal = have nothing but a little
: Jack the Boss = have lots
: Joe and Jose should ask more from Jack; now Jack is pitting Joe (have
: nothing) v.s. Jose (have little), so that he can watch from a safe distance.
: An analogy is IT workers (who earn slightly more than average) v.s. other
|
t**********8
发帖数: 756 | 6 加州5w收入还有小孩的话州税联邦税加起来不可能30%那么高 |
E**********l
发帖数: 264 | 7 如果这个Joe是单亲而且是contractor的话，税率看来确实在30%左右
Single的而且是contractor的话：大概是12%+4.5%+12.4% ～29%
Married的话 大概是 7.8%+2.3%+12.4% ～ 23%
除了federal+state，还有social security tax, 和其他一些
social security tax对self-employed很高，很多体力活都不是employee而是
contractor，就是self-employed了。
http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/tax-planning/1040-form-tax-
https://www.ftb.ca.gov/online/Tax_Calculator/
http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10003.pdf
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
2014 tax brackets (for taxes due April 15, 2015)
Tax rate Single filers Married filing jointly or qualifying widow/
widower Married filing separately Head of household
10% Up to $9,075 Up to $18,150 Up to $9,075 Up to $12,950
15% $9,076 to $36,900 $18,151 to $73,800 $9,076 to $36,900 $12,
951 to $49,400
25% $36,901 to $89,350 $73,801 to $148,850 $36,901 to $74,425 $
49,401 to $127,550
2014 California Income Tax Table 2014 - 2015
Tax Bracket (Single) Marginal Tax Rate
$0+ 1.00%
$7,582+ 2.00%
$17,976+ 4.00%
$28,371+ 6.00%
$39,384+ 8.00%
$49,774+ 9.30%
$254,250+ 10.30%
$305,100+ 11.30%
$508,500+ 12.30%
$1,000,000+ 13.30%
Tax Bracket (Married) Marginal Tax Rate
$0+ 1.00%
$15,174+ 2.00%
$35,952+ 4.00%
$46,346+ 6.00%
$57,359+ 8.00%
$67,751+ 9.30%
$345,780+ 10.30%
$414,936+ 11.30%
$691,560+ 12.30%
$1,000,000+ 13.30%
Social Security taxes 2014
Employee/employer (each) 6.2% on earnings up to $117,000 6.2%
Self-employed
*Can be offset by income tax provisions 12.4%* on earnings up to $117,000
Medicare taxes 2014 2015
Employee/employer (each) 1.45% on all earnings
Self-employed
*Can be offset by income tax provisions 2.9%* on all earnings |
x****o
发帖数: 29677 | 8
Illegal.
distance.
how about Jack close his business and move overseas due to high tax
still?
【在 c***z 的大作中提到】
: Guys, there is some problem in how we view the case.
: We should improve the life of Joe Legal; instead of demonizing Jose Illegal.
: Joe should have higher salary, pay no income tax, have cheaper insurance,
: etc
: Joe Legal = have nothing
: Jose Illegal = have nothing but a little
: Jack the Boss = have lots
: Joe and Jose should ask more from Jack; now Jack is pitting Joe (have
: nothing) v.s. Jose (have little), so that he can watch from a safe distance.
: An analogy is IT workers (who earn slightly more than average) v.s. other
|
k***n
发帖数: 3158 | 9 which countries have an overall better package than the US, considering
tax, energy cost, large and well educated workforce, safety, etc.?
Europe with higher taxes? Russia and South America with gangs runnning
rampant? China with TG being able to take over your weath anytime they want?
You see the wealthy class in China move their capitals to US. Are
you seeing the opposite?
Matter of fact, Dollor, US bonds, US stocks are all close to all time
highs. Capital want to flux into US as the rest of the world is much
worse. This is actually a perfect time to tax these capitals and pay down
the national debt.
【在 x****o 的大作中提到】
:
: Illegal.
: distance.
: how about Jack close his business and move overseas due to high tax
: still?
|
J*****n
发帖数: 4859 | 10
want?
瑞士，高收入，低税收。
【在 k***n 的大作中提到】
: which countries have an overall better package than the US, considering
: tax, energy cost, large and well educated workforce, safety, etc.?
: Europe with higher taxes? Russia and South America with gangs runnning
: rampant? China with TG being able to take over your weath anytime they want?
: You see the wealthy class in China move their capitals to US. Are
: you seeing the opposite?
: Matter of fact, Dollor, US bonds, US stocks are all close to all time
: highs. Capital want to flux into US as the rest of the world is much
: worse. This is actually a perfect time to tax these capitals and pay down
: the national debt.
|
|
|
x****o
发帖数: 29677 | 11
want?
if you are business owner, you won't ask this stupid question
【在 k***n 的大作中提到】
: which countries have an overall better package than the US, considering
: tax, energy cost, large and well educated workforce, safety, etc.?
: Europe with higher taxes? Russia and South America with gangs runnning
: rampant? China with TG being able to take over your weath anytime they want?
: You see the wealthy class in China move their capitals to US. Are
: you seeing the opposite?
: Matter of fact, Dollor, US bonds, US stocks are all close to all time
: highs. Capital want to flux into US as the rest of the world is much
: worse. This is actually a perfect time to tax these capitals and pay down
: the national debt.
|
k***n
发帖数: 3158 | 12 a tiny country with a small workforce that may not even afford 10% of
the US capital for making better profits
also, 高收入 would be a killer for business
【在 J*****n 的大作中提到】
:
: want?
: 瑞士，高收入，低税收。
|
b*****e
发帖数: 53215 | 13 yet the left promote higher wage
【在 k***n 的大作中提到】
: a tiny country with a small workforce that may not even afford 10% of
: the US capital for making better profits
: also, 高收入 would be a killer for business
|
k***n
发帖数: 3158 | 14 apparently business owners are much smarter than you
even a person who can read would not make a stupid statement like yours
business owners have been flushing their capitals into the US
【在 x****o 的大作中提到】
:
: want?
: if you are business owner, you won't ask this stupid question
|
k***n
发帖数: 3158 | 15 exactly, that's why I am puzzled that it was even suggested as an
alternative
to US for capitals, lol
【在 b*****e 的大作中提到】
: yet the left promote higher wage
|
a****i
发帖数: 4783 | 16 别搞笑了，应该学习天朝，个税基本上打酱油，税收大部来自消费税。
一个国家要发展迅速，必须是效率优先，兼顾公平，而不是相反。
Illegal.
【在 c***z 的大作中提到】
: Guys, there is some problem in how we view the case.
: We should improve the life of Joe Legal; instead of demonizing Jose Illegal.
: Joe should have higher salary, pay no income tax, have cheaper insurance,
: etc
: Joe Legal = have nothing
: Jose Illegal = have nothing but a little
: Jack the Boss = have lots
: Joe and Jose should ask more from Jack; now Jack is pitting Joe (have
: nothing) v.s. Jose (have little), so that he can watch from a safe distance.
: An analogy is IT workers (who earn slightly more than average) v.s. other
|
x********e
发帖数: 2275 | 17 不得不赞叹你的智商。
有非法的便宜的劳动力，干嘛要给你合法的高工资？
Illegal.
distance.
【在 c***z 的大作中提到】
: Guys, there is some problem in how we view the case.
: We should improve the life of Joe Legal; instead of demonizing Jose Illegal.
: Joe should have higher salary, pay no income tax, have cheaper insurance,
: etc
: Joe Legal = have nothing
: Jose Illegal = have nothing but a little
: Jack the Boss = have lots
: Joe and Jose should ask more from Jack; now Jack is pitting Joe (have
: nothing) v.s. Jose (have little), so that he can watch from a safe distance.
: An analogy is IT workers (who earn slightly more than average) v.s. other
|
a*******1
发帖数: 1554 | 18 我们要想办法提高Joe Legal的收入，而不是降低别人的收入：
提高个人所得税的起征额，20万以下不用征，这样Joe Legal就有$52000拿到手；
事实上，Joe Legal也是穷人，他的小孩也要有免费午餐；所以，20万以下收入的家庭
他们的小孩也要有免费午餐；
警察、消防工资太高，要降低他们的工资；
医学院垄断招生，要打破垄断，大幅扩招；
提高机器人的科研经费，进一步解放劳动力；
成立工会，把Joe Legal的收入提高到10万美元；
严禁企业外包工作，对国外商品征收300%关税；
总之这些社会改革都是系统工程，不能全部怪罪到Joe Illegal身上。 |
Q****r
发帖数: 7340 | 19 建筑工人都挣10万一年，你觉得读完博士天天熬夜做研究的生物科学家们该挣多少？
【在 a*******1 的大作中提到】
: 我们要想办法提高Joe Legal的收入，而不是降低别人的收入：
: 提高个人所得税的起征额，20万以下不用征，这样Joe Legal就有$52000拿到手；
: 事实上，Joe Legal也是穷人，他的小孩也要有免费午餐；所以，20万以下收入的家庭
: 他们的小孩也要有免费午餐；
: 警察、消防工资太高，要降低他们的工资；
: 医学院垄断招生，要打破垄断，大幅扩招；
: 提高机器人的科研经费，进一步解放劳动力；
: 成立工会，把Joe Legal的收入提高到10万美元；
: 严禁企业外包工作，对国外商品征收300%关税；
: 总之这些社会改革都是系统工程，不能全部怪罪到Joe Illegal身上。
|
a**t
发帖数: 3833 | 20 Wtf, it's impossible to have this much tax. Go fuck yourself
++
【在 E**********l 的大作中提到】
: 如果这个Joe是单亲而且是contractor的话，税率看来确实在30%左右
: Single的而且是contractor的话：大概是12%+4.5%+12.4% ～29%
: Married的话 大概是 7.8%+2.3%+12.4% ～ 23%
: 除了federal+state，还有social security tax, 和其他一些
: social security tax对self-employed很高，很多体力活都不是employee而是
: contractor，就是self-employed了。
: http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/tax-planning/1040-form-tax-
: https://www.ftb.ca.gov/online/Tax_Calculator/
: http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10003.pdf
: ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|
|
|
A*********l
发帖数: 2005 | |
r**********n
发帖数: 5281 | 22
Illegal.
distance.
你又来耍二把刀啦。
又要高工资，又不交税，又要便宜保险。你怎么整天一副世界欠你的样子？
【在 c***z 的大作中提到】
: Guys, there is some problem in how we view the case.
: We should improve the life of Joe Legal; instead of demonizing Jose Illegal.
: Joe should have higher salary, pay no income tax, have cheaper insurance,
: etc
: Joe Legal = have nothing
: Jose Illegal = have nothing but a little
: Jack the Boss = have lots
: Joe and Jose should ask more from Jack; now Jack is pitting Joe (have
: nothing) v.s. Jose (have little), so that he can watch from a safe distance.
: An analogy is IT workers (who earn slightly more than average) v.s. other
|
r**********n
发帖数: 5281 | 23
本来非法移民的那3万多块应该是合法工人的钱，凭什么不怪他们？美国三大汽车制造
商都快被工会搞死了，工会是个什么鸟玩意？你们左派知不知道，建筑工人年薪10万的
情况下你们会买不起房，只能去救助站睡觉？当然啦，到时候你们又会说，你们应该住
section 8。反正你们嘴里的“应该”是无穷尽的。
【在 a*******1 的大作中提到】
: 我们要想办法提高Joe Legal的收入，而不是降低别人的收入：
: 提高个人所得税的起征额，20万以下不用征，这样Joe Legal就有$52000拿到手；
: 事实上，Joe Legal也是穷人，他的小孩也要有免费午餐；所以，20万以下收入的家庭
: 他们的小孩也要有免费午餐；
: 警察、消防工资太高，要降低他们的工资；
: 医学院垄断招生，要打破垄断，大幅扩招；
: 提高机器人的科研经费，进一步解放劳动力；
: 成立工会，把Joe Legal的收入提高到10万美元；
: 严禁企业外包工作，对国外商品征收300%关税；
: 总之这些社会改革都是系统工程，不能全部怪罪到Joe Illegal身上。
|
l*******2
发帖数: 2550 | 24 terrible， indeed
但是他们的好日子也只持续第一代，第二代就不行，身份漂白了。 |
l*****c
发帖数: 1153 | 25 这帮左B就是这样。大脑受损伤了整天想着怎么帮别人卖自己。
【在 T*********I 的大作中提到】
: 犯法的反而要被你保护，合法的富人却要被你妖魔化。
:
: Illegal.
|
l*****c
发帖数: 1153 | 26 不对，左B的要的不是公平，是平均主意，大锅饭吃土豪。
【在 a****i 的大作中提到】
: 别搞笑了，应该学习天朝，个税基本上打酱油，税收大部来自消费税。
: 一个国家要发展迅速，必须是效率优先，兼顾公平，而不是相反。
:
: Illegal.
|
x****o
发帖数: 29677 | 27
Big cop save cash overseas, u never heard that? Now it is IQ problem
【在 k***n 的大作中提到】
: apparently business owners are much smarter than you
: even a person who can read would not make a stupid statement like yours
: business owners have been flushing their capitals into the US
|
k***n
发帖数: 3158 | 28 Of course it is an IQ problem with someone can not understand why they keep
DOLLAR CASH instead of investing overseas. Will you keep your cash position
high when you see a great investment opportunity there?
While they kept the profits they earned overseas for so many years with a
cash position of about $2T, they invested the same amount inside the US in
2014 ALONE.
http://www.ibtimes.com/us-companies-set-record-2-trillion-capit
When it comes to real investment, capitals have nowhere else to go but
coming back to the US.
【在 x****o 的大作中提到】
:
: Big cop save cash overseas, u never heard that? Now it is IQ problem
|
r*****p
发帖数: 1964 | 29 非法移民哪里领得到food stamp，住得到subsidized housing？ |
k**a
发帖数: 38 | 30 google obama aunt welfare
【在 r*****p 的大作中提到】
: 非法移民哪里领得到food stamp，住得到subsidized housing？
|
|
|
E**********l
发帖数: 264 | 31 哪里来的杂种
【在 a**t 的大作中提到】
: Wtf, it's impossible to have this much tax. Go fuck yourself
:
: ++
|
x****o
发帖数: 29677 | 32
keep
position
Capital investment based on tax credit, not tax hijack. And u never thought
about it? Why those Big cop save cash overseas and not back to us? How about
u raise tax for business and individual? Capital still invest at us? That
is really an IQ problem
【在 k***n 的大作中提到】
: Of course it is an IQ problem with someone can not understand why they keep
: DOLLAR CASH instead of investing overseas. Will you keep your cash position
: high when you see a great investment opportunity there?
: While they kept the profits they earned overseas for so many years with a
: cash position of about $2T, they invested the same amount inside the US in
: 2014 ALONE.
: http://www.ibtimes.com/us-companies-set-record-2-trillion-capit
: When it comes to real investment, capitals have nowhere else to go but
: coming back to the US.
|
c***z
发帖数: 6348 | 33 这就是我主张的啊，个税基本上打酱油，税收大部来自消费税，加上企业所得税
个税应该恢复到以前，只有1%的人需要交
【在 a****i 的大作中提到】
: 别搞笑了，应该学习天朝，个税基本上打酱油，税收大部来自消费税。
: 一个国家要发展迅速，必须是效率优先，兼顾公平，而不是相反。
:
: Illegal.
|
c***z
发帖数: 6348 | 34 有犯法的高收入职业，干嘛要做合法的辛苦活？
现在企业雇佣非法移民，惩罚是象征性的罚款；实在的惩罚落到了被雇佣的人身上
Most fines are broken down to the following:
First offenders can be fined $250-$2,000 per illegal employee.
For a second offense, the fine is $2,000-$5,000 per illegal employee.
Three or more offenses can cost an employer $3000-$10,000 per illegal
employee. A pattern of knowingly employing illegal immigrants can mean extra
fines and up to six months in jail for an employer.
http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/penalties-for-emp
【在 x********e 的大作中提到】
: 不得不赞叹你的智商。
: 有非法的便宜的劳动力，干嘛要给你合法的高工资？
:
: Illegal.
: distance.
|
c***z
发帖数: 6348 | 35 30万
现在这样是因为供应太大
【在 Q****r 的大作中提到】
: 建筑工人都挣10万一年，你觉得读完博士天天熬夜做研究的生物科学家们该挣多少？
|
c***z
发帖数: 6348 | 36 companies keep cash when the market is low, see the 2008 crisis for example,
and this in turn causes the more serious liquidity, which is much worse
than a bad stock market
thought
about
【在 x****o 的大作中提到】
:
: keep
: position
: Capital investment based on tax credit, not tax hijack. And u never thought
: about it? Why those Big cop save cash overseas and not back to us? How about
: u raise tax for business and individual? Capital still invest at us? That
: is really an IQ problem
|
h***a
发帖数: 2720 | 37
严禁企业外包工作，对国外商品征收300%关税
哈哈哈哈哈
【在 a*******1 的大作中提到】
: 我们要想办法提高Joe Legal的收入，而不是降低别人的收入：
: 提高个人所得税的起征额，20万以下不用征，这样Joe Legal就有$52000拿到手；
: 事实上，Joe Legal也是穷人，他的小孩也要有免费午餐；所以，20万以下收入的家庭
: 他们的小孩也要有免费午餐；
: 警察、消防工资太高，要降低他们的工资；
: 医学院垄断招生，要打破垄断，大幅扩招；
: 提高机器人的科研经费，进一步解放劳动力；
: 成立工会，把Joe Legal的收入提高到10万美元；
: 严禁企业外包工作，对国外商品征收300%关税；
: 总之这些社会改革都是系统工程，不能全部怪罪到Joe Illegal身上。
|
Q****r
发帖数: 7340 | 38 It is called inflation.
【在 c***z 的大作中提到】
: 30万
: 现在这样是因为供应太大
|
d***p
发帖数: 937 | 39 极右党的板斧又胡编数字来蒙人。
刚开始的税就搞错了。 楼主是刚到美国，没孩子，没报过税？
四口之家的Joe年收入$52000
四个人头的减免是：$3950X4=$15800
Standard Deduction: $12400
医疗保险费：$600X12=$7200
这样一年的纳税收入是：$52000-15800-12400-7200=$16600
根据2014 税表，$30200的纳税收入夫妻联合保税的话，联邦所得税是1668.
而因为Joe有两个未成年子女，可以拿到2000美元的Credit.
这样实际上Joe不用缴联邦税，反而可以从联邦政府那儿拿到332美元。这样Joe也属于
极右党嘲讽的47%的一员。
而州所得税只是$180-350.
Social security and MedCare Tax 是大约3900
这样所有的税加起来是3750-3920，不到52000收入的7.5%，远低于楼主宣称的30% |
k***n
发帖数: 3158 | 40 Tax is just one part of running businesses. If you run yours based on tax
only, you would be sorry.
That's why I said in the beginning you need to compare the overall package,
and no one comes close to the US. That's why you see capitals rushing into
the US with "Obama destroying the country", lol.
I provided you the fact that corporations invested in the US in 2014 alone
the same amount of capitals that they need to accumulate overseas for
decades. Apparently they are not as foolish as you are and they know where
to invest. While they have plenty of capital to invest in the US ($2T a year
is not too shabby), why worry about them saving some cash overseas without
indication of wasting those cash overseas?
The big corporations need the #1 military force to protect their interests
globally, so they need to pay for the protection. Let's think about it this
way, if Zimbabwe issued a big tax holiday, would you think big corporations
would move there? lol
Just ask yourself, would you live in a nice neighborhood and pay the higher
property tax for your kid's school or live in a garbage neighborhood which
no property tax.
thought
about
【在 x****o 的大作中提到】
:
: keep
: position
: Capital investment based on tax credit, not tax hijack. And u never thought
: about it? Why those Big cop save cash overseas and not back to us? How about
: u raise tax for business and individual? Capital still invest at us? That
: is really an IQ problem
|
|
|
b*****e
发帖数: 53215 | 41 人头见面还能跟standard连着用？
【在 d***p 的大作中提到】
: 极右党的板斧又胡编数字来蒙人。
: 刚开始的税就搞错了。 楼主是刚到美国，没孩子，没报过税？
: 四口之家的Joe年收入$52000
: 四个人头的减免是：$3950X4=$15800
: Standard Deduction: $12400
: 医疗保险费：$600X12=$7200
: 这样一年的纳税收入是：$52000-15800-12400-7200=$16600
: 根据2014 税表，$30200的纳税收入夫妻联合保税的话，联邦所得税是1668.
: 而因为Joe有两个未成年子女，可以拿到2000美元的Credit.
: 这样实际上Joe不用缴联邦税，反而可以从联邦政府那儿拿到332美元。这样Joe也属于
|
c***z
发帖数: 6348 | 42 拜托那是 exemption
http://www.obliviousinvestor.com/the-difference-between-exempti
快换个会计师，不然被坑死了。
【在 b*****e 的大作中提到】
: 人头见面还能跟standard连着用？
|
l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 43 不是ｍａｒｋｅｔ ｌｏｗ的关系．是政府政策不稳定， 所以公司不愿意随便投资大
项目， 因为大项目很多假设， 如果政府政策看不清楚的话， 公司宁愿把钱拿在手
上看．
example,
【在 c***z 的大作中提到】
: companies keep cash when the market is low, see the 2008 crisis for example,
: and this in turn causes the more serious liquidity, which is much worse
: than a bad stock market
:
: thought
: about
|
l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 44 为什么医疗保险费可以减掉？ 没看懂．
【在 d***p 的大作中提到】
: 极右党的板斧又胡编数字来蒙人。
: 刚开始的税就搞错了。 楼主是刚到美国，没孩子，没报过税？
: 四口之家的Joe年收入$52000
: 四个人头的减免是：$3950X4=$15800
: Standard Deduction: $12400
: 医疗保险费：$600X12=$7200
: 这样一年的纳税收入是：$52000-15800-12400-7200=$16600
: 根据2014 税表，$30200的纳税收入夫妻联合保税的话，联邦所得税是1668.
: 而因为Joe有两个未成年子女，可以拿到2000美元的Credit.
: 这样实际上Joe不用缴联邦税，反而可以从联邦政府那儿拿到332美元。这样Joe也属于
|
T*********I
发帖数: 10729 | 45 楼顶的对比那么多，你还有其它反对没有？
我倒想看看你怎么证明自愿非法移民在美国怎样的悲惨生活。
【在 d***p 的大作中提到】
: 极右党的板斧又胡编数字来蒙人。
: 刚开始的税就搞错了。 楼主是刚到美国，没孩子，没报过税？
: 四口之家的Joe年收入$52000
: 四个人头的减免是：$3950X4=$15800
: Standard Deduction: $12400
: 医疗保险费：$600X12=$7200
: 这样一年的纳税收入是：$52000-15800-12400-7200=$16600
: 根据2014 税表，$30200的纳税收入夫妻联合保税的话，联邦所得税是1668.
: 而因为Joe有两个未成年子女，可以拿到2000美元的Credit.
: 这样实际上Joe不用缴联邦税，反而可以从联邦政府那儿拿到332美元。这样Joe也属于
|
o******e
发帖数: 1761 | 46 一个问题是$15/hr 40/wk 的非法工作那么好找么？ |
b*****e
发帖数: 53215 | 47 好找 中餐馆多的是
【在 o******e 的大作中提到】
: 一个问题是$15/hr 40/wk 的非法工作那么好找么？
|
T*********I
发帖数: 10729 | 48 The 2007 median household income of unauthorized immigrants was $36,000,
这样看来，应该是$18/hr 40/wk.
【在 o******e 的大作中提到】
: 一个问题是$15/hr 40/wk 的非法工作那么好找么？
|
a**t
发帖数: 3833 | 49 Shabi, are you in Australia?
【在 b*****e 的大作中提到】
: 人头见面还能跟standard连着用？
|
a**t
发帖数: 3833 | 50 Apparently, you know nothing about us taxation. How comes you are qualified
to be board master? You are in no way close to a conservative. You are just
dumb,
【在 T*********I 的大作中提到】
: 楼顶的对比那么多，你还有其它反对没有？
: 我倒想看看你怎么证明自愿非法移民在美国怎样的悲惨生活。
|
|
|
a**t
发帖数: 3833 | 51 Fart,as far as I know, in North America, waitresses make less than $5 an
hour, dumb
【在 b*****e 的大作中提到】
: 好找 中餐馆多的是
|
a**t
发帖数: 3833 | 52 Good question, you can put money in a flex spending account,
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: 为什么医疗保险费可以减掉？ 没看懂．
|
b*****e
发帖数: 53215 | 53 你是说turbotax也不懂？
【在 c***z 的大作中提到】
: 拜托那是 exemption
: http://www.obliviousinvestor.com/the-difference-between-exempti
: 快换个会计师，不然被坑死了。
|
a**t
发帖数: 3833 | 54 DO not google a word or two. Use you brain to think harder.
Most Joe the plumbers in this country are just like you. They do not pay any
tax but they are Obama haters. .
.
【在 T*********I 的大作中提到】
: The 2007 median household income of unauthorized immigrants was $36,000,
: 这样看来，应该是$18/hr 40/wk.
|
T*********I
发帖数: 10729 | 55 这句fart的台词真是传神。
waitress根据BLS，made a median salary of $18,590 in 2013.
【在 a**t 的大作中提到】
: Fart,as far as I know, in North America, waitresses make less than $5 an
: hour, dumb
|
k***n
发帖数: 3158 | 56 I don't know which turbotax you used
but if you did not get both deduction and exemption from it, you should
consider a law suit against turbotax.
【在 b*****e 的大作中提到】
: 你是说turbotax也不懂？
|
k***n
发帖数: 3158 | 57 "household"
【在 T*********I 的大作中提到】
: The 2007 median household income of unauthorized immigrants was $36,000,
: 这样看来，应该是$18/hr 40/wk.
|
T*********I
发帖数: 10729 | 58 Joe's too.
【在 k***n 的大作中提到】
: "household"
|
k***n
发帖数: 3158 | 59 I was questioning the $18/hr you derived. It could easily become $9/hr
according to your data.
【在 T*********I 的大作中提到】
: Joe's too.
|
T*********I
发帖数: 10729 | 60 Same algorithm, that'd make Joe and his wife's hourly rate to be $12.5/hr.
So at the end, it's Joe's family vs. Jose's family. Still 非法移民的幸福生活
【在 k***n 的大作中提到】
: I was questioning the $18/hr you derived. It could easily become $9/hr
: according to your data.
|
|
|
k***n
发帖数: 3158 | 61 I thought your $18/hr post was to answer the following question
My post was just to point it out that your data did not lead to the answer.
That's it.
Same algorithm, that'd make Joe and his wife's hourly rate to be $12.5/hr.
So at the end, it's Joe's family vs. Jose's family. Still 非法移民的幸福生活 |
T*********I
发帖数: 10729 | 62 I couldn't find how illegal immigrants' typical income model (single
breadwinner or dual).
My answer to yours was just to point out, even if the "household" meant
double income for the majority, it wouldn't change the theme.
生活
【在 k***n 的大作中提到】
: I thought your $18/hr post was to answer the following question
: My post was just to point it out that your data did not lead to the answer.
: That's it.
: Same algorithm, that'd make Joe and his wife's hourly rate to be $12.5/hr.
: So at the end, it's Joe's family vs. Jose's family. Still 非法移民的幸福生活
|
d***p
发帖数: 937 | 63 我只是拿最开始的纳税的数据说明极右党的一贯地编造数据蒙人。
下面的那些对比也大部分都是极右党编出来的。
我不知道加州如何，在绝大部分州，除了小孩上学那些，别的福利非法移民基本都申请
不到。
那些联福利都需要有永久居民或公民才能拿到。那些联邦福利，及时在加州，非法移民
也拿不到吧。
如果你比较的是Joe Leagal vs Jose Detroit,那后面的那些福利确实成立。可如果
Jose Detroit工作了， $15/hour, 那后面的福利又不成立了。
这个极右党的对比又一次证明了极右党经常造谣蒙骗。
【在 T*********I 的大作中提到】
: 楼顶的对比那么多，你还有其它反对没有？
: 我倒想看看你怎么证明自愿非法移民在美国怎样的悲惨生活。
|
d***p
发帖数: 937 | 64 医疗保险费在PAY CHECK 里是在税前扣掉的，也就是不用交税。
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: 为什么医疗保险费可以减掉？ 没看懂．
|
k***n
发帖数: 3158 | 65
Then perhaps you should not bring it up to answer the $15/hr question raised
by another poster.
I did not have any questions to you so you were not obligated to point out
anything to me.
I understand where you are from for your theme and I don't disagree with it
entirely. The thing is that you really delivered your message and arguments
poorly, which is not going to help people better understand your theme and
come up with a solution.
For example, if JOSE has such a 非法移民的幸福生活. Why would they want to
become legal? Why refuse granting them legal status and letting them suffer
like Joe.
Some conservatives on this board really did nothing but damaging the
conservative's image as a whole. What a shame.
【在 T*********I 的大作中提到】
: I couldn't find how illegal immigrants' typical income model (single
: breadwinner or dual).
: My answer to yours was just to point out, even if the "household" meant
: double income for the majority, it wouldn't change the theme.
:
:
: 生活
|
T*********I
发帖数: 10729 | 66 重看48楼。那是全国范围的统计。
【在 d***p 的大作中提到】
: 我只是拿最开始的纳税的数据说明极右党的一贯地编造数据蒙人。
: 下面的那些对比也大部分都是极右党编出来的。
: 我不知道加州如何，在绝大部分州，除了小孩上学那些，别的福利非法移民基本都申请
: 不到。
: 那些联福利都需要有永久居民或公民才能拿到。那些联邦福利，及时在加州，非法移民
: 也拿不到吧。
: 如果你比较的是Joe Leagal vs Jose Detroit,那后面的那些福利确实成立。可如果
: Jose Detroit工作了， $15/hour, 那后面的福利又不成立了。
: 这个极右党的对比又一次证明了极右党经常造谣蒙骗。
|
T*********I
发帖数: 10729 | 67 Why do criminals want to legalize crime, while they are conducting their
criminal activities?
raised
it
arguments
suffer
【在 k***n 的大作中提到】
:
: Then perhaps you should not bring it up to answer the $15/hr question raised
: by another poster.
: I did not have any questions to you so you were not obligated to point out
: anything to me.
: I understand where you are from for your theme and I don't disagree with it
: entirely. The thing is that you really delivered your message and arguments
: poorly, which is not going to help people better understand your theme and
: come up with a solution.
: For example, if JOSE has such a 非法移民的幸福生活. Why would they want to
|
k***n
发帖数: 3158 | 68 You are on my side then, lol
If you convince criminals that they would suffer more after being pardoned,
I bet they would not demand the pardon.
The same thing, if you argument was right, you may want to convince Jose
that he would suffer more after gaining a legal status like Joe.
【在 T*********I 的大作中提到】
: Why do criminals want to legalize crime, while they are conducting their
: criminal activities?
:
: raised
: it
: arguments
: suffer
|
T*********I
发帖数: 10729 | 69 Pardon a criminal doesn't prevent him to commit crime again. Of course they
want to be pardoned. So that they can legally gain a ground that they were
not able to gain before.
Recidivism of Prisoners Released in 30 States in 2005: Patterns from 2005 to
2010:
3 IN 4 FORMER PRISONERS IN 30 STATES ARRESTED WITHIN 5 YEARS OF RELEASE
For illegal immigrants, they would want to be legal too. 1. they can still
get the same cash pay; 2. they can sponsor more illegal immigrants (their
family) to come and reside illegally. At the end, tax payer are holding the
bag.
You can't be on my side.
,
【在 k***n 的大作中提到】
: You are on my side then, lol
: If you convince criminals that they would suffer more after being pardoned,
: I bet they would not demand the pardon.
: The same thing, if you argument was right, you may want to convince Jose
: that he would suffer more after gaining a legal status like Joe.
|
T*********I
发帖数: 10729 | 70 and, kafen,
while you are thinking about Jose's interests, I find it very hard to
conceive, all liberals they never consider the victims interests.
In this case, Joe's family's interests are completely ignored from the
discussion in this thread. And all families legally come to this country
were all glamorously ignored.
Just like in a homicide case, the death and the loss of a life is not in the
discussion. Liberals only care about the welfare of the murderer. |
|
|
k***n
发帖数: 3158 | 71 your argument was on my side as it proved what I was saying
criminals wanted to be pardoned because they would gain from it by not being
punished
similarly, illegal immigrants want to become legal because they would gain
more benefits after becoming legal residents, especially those benefits that
Joe has while Jose does not have. To say "JOSE 非法移民的幸福生活" is just
not going to support your own intention, stated in your next post, that Joe'
s benefits should not be ignored.
In fact, Joe is a 47%er and people like him do not really pay much tax and
they were mostly on various government welfare. That's actually the reason
why Jose wants to become Joe.
they
were
to
still
the
【在 T*********I 的大作中提到】
: Pardon a criminal doesn't prevent him to commit crime again. Of course they
: want to be pardoned. So that they can legally gain a ground that they were
: not able to gain before.
: Recidivism of Prisoners Released in 30 States in 2005: Patterns from 2005 to
: 2010:
: 3 IN 4 FORMER PRISONERS IN 30 STATES ARRESTED WITHIN 5 YEARS OF RELEASE
: For illegal immigrants, they would want to be legal too. 1. they can still
: get the same cash pay; 2. they can sponsor more illegal immigrants (their
: family) to come and reside illegally. At the end, tax payer are holding the
: bag.
|
T*********I
发帖数: 10729 | 72 Jose really shouldn't be cared. They committed crimes to this country, and
everyday their existence break the very laws you in other threads seem to
care so much about.
If Joe, the 47%er in your view doesn't need to be cared either because "they
don't contribute much tax", then perhaps we should care about our own
children, who did everything by the book, and who someday were supposed to
inherit this once great land.
Their interests are trampled upon and ruined away, and you, if you still
care, should feel angry.
being
that
just
Joe'
【在 k***n 的大作中提到】
: your argument was on my side as it proved what I was saying
: criminals wanted to be pardoned because they would gain from it by not being
: punished
: similarly, illegal immigrants want to become legal because they would gain
: more benefits after becoming legal residents, especially those benefits that
: Joe has while Jose does not have. To say "JOSE 非法移民的幸福生活" is just
: not going to support your own intention, stated in your next post, that Joe'
: s benefits should not be ignored.
: In fact, Joe is a 47%er and people like him do not really pay much tax and
: they were mostly on various government welfare. That's actually the reason
|
k***n
发帖数: 3158 | 73 "Jose really shouldn't be cared" is not equal to "非法移民的幸福生活"
This is the difference I wanted to pointed out to you.
As I said, I don't disagree with you entirely. Illegal immigrants are not
supposed to be here and they don't deserve the benefits funded by tax
dollars we all paid. But this does not put them in 幸福生活.
I did not say Joe's interest should not be cared. That's perhaps what Romney
said. What I pointed out was that they certainly enjoy much more benefits
than Jose does, which is the opposite of what you described. Whether Joe
deserves all the welfares is a completely different story. I am sure you
will find plenty of liberals who will be glad to discuss with you about Joe'
s interests, I am just not one of them.
So, you see, it is not that I disagree with your intention. I just don't
think the way you put together your arguments is helpful, maybe it is even
harmful.
and
they
【在 T*********I 的大作中提到】
: Jose really shouldn't be cared. They committed crimes to this country, and
: everyday their existence break the very laws you in other threads seem to
: care so much about.
: If Joe, the 47%er in your view doesn't need to be cared either because "they
: don't contribute much tax", then perhaps we should care about our own
: children, who did everything by the book, and who someday were supposed to
: inherit this once great land.
: Their interests are trampled upon and ruined away, and you, if you still
: care, should feel angry.
:
|
E**********l
发帖数: 264 | 74 参与一下讨论。
"Jose really shouldn't be cared"， 但是事实上被cared太多，所以就过上了 "非法
移民的幸福生活"。
“they (Joe) certainly enjoy much more benefits than Jose does” ，但是Jose
们仍然过着比他们自己正当所得的要幸福的多的生活，而不是说比Joe们更幸福的生活
才算幸福。所以这个标题没有问题。
柳传志经营联想赚了几亿，住进高档社区，一个贪官贪污几千万，也住进高档社区，子
女成为同学。
我们说贪官一家过着不该有的幸福生活，难道有错。
总体来说，Joe比Jose更幸福，Joe不会想成为Jose，而Jose还一心想成为Joe。但是，
在很多具体的细节上，我们吃惊的发现，Jose比Joe还更幸福。作为一个非法移民，这
样过的"太"幸福了.
Romney
Joe'
【在 k***n 的大作中提到】
: "Jose really shouldn't be cared" is not equal to "非法移民的幸福生活"
: This is the difference I wanted to pointed out to you.
: As I said, I don't disagree with you entirely. Illegal immigrants are not
: supposed to be here and they don't deserve the benefits funded by tax
: dollars we all paid. But this does not put them in 幸福生活.
: I did not say Joe's interest should not be cared. That's perhaps what Romney
: said. What I pointed out was that they certainly enjoy much more benefits
: than Jose does, which is the opposite of what you described. Whether Joe
: deserves all the welfares is a completely different story. I am sure you
: will find plenty of liberals who will be glad to discuss with you about Joe'
|
l******l
发帖数: 2679 | 75 Since you can not expel millions of Jose illegal, the practical solution is
turning illegal into legal.
The ultimate solution is to stop Jose illegal from sneaking in in the first
place.
25.
and
per
【在 T*********I 的大作中提到】
: You have two families: " Joe Legal" and " Jose Illegal."
: Both families have two parents, two children, and live in California.
: Joe Legal works in construction, has a Social Security Number and makes $25.
: 00 per hour with taxes deducted.
: Jose Illegal also works in construction, has NO Social Security Number, and
: gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table."
: Ready? Now pay attention....
: Joe Legal: $25.00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week, or $52,000.00 per
: year. Now take 30% away for state and federal tax; Joe Legal now has $31,
: 231.00.
|
k***n
发帖数: 3158 | 76 Jose, being an illegal immigrant, certainly gets more than he deserves. It
is a common sense as he would otherwise stay in his home country . So I
would agree if the title simply said "非法移民的幸福生活".
However, the title was "JOE vs. JOSE 非法移民的幸福生活". So it was a
comparison and the OP, although made many mistakes in his calculation and
assumptions, did a lousy job put together the comparison.
I wanted my conservative friends to present the conservative ideas soundly.
That's all.
Jose
【在 E**********l 的大作中提到】
: 参与一下讨论。
: "Jose really shouldn't be cared"， 但是事实上被cared太多，所以就过上了 "非法
: 移民的幸福生活"。
: “they (Joe) certainly enjoy much more benefits than Jose does” ，但是Jose
: 们仍然过着比他们自己正当所得的要幸福的多的生活，而不是说比Joe们更幸福的生活
: 才算幸福。所以这个标题没有问题。
: 柳传志经营联想赚了几亿，住进高档社区，一个贪官贪污几千万，也住进高档社区，子
: 女成为同学。
: 我们说贪官一家过着不该有的幸福生活，难道有错。
: 总体来说，Joe比Jose更幸福，Joe不会想成为Jose，而Jose还一心想成为Joe。但是，
|
E**********l
发帖数: 264 | 77 就是因为和Joe比了，才令人震惊的发现非法移民的幸福程度。
JOE vs. JOSE并不意味着Jose全面超越Joe才证明非法移民的幸福生活，那实在太可怕
了，意味着全美已成为彻底的黑社会。
JOE vs. JOSE，发现Jose离Joe不远，甚至有局部优势，这就说明了问题的所在。所以
，没有这个比较就看不清 "非法移民的幸福生活"具体是怎么回事。
相对而言，如果没有这个比较，只是列举非法移民得到了哪些好处，我们可能不会明白
这和我们自身有哪些关联。正如你所说，“illegal immigrant, certainly gets more
than he deserves. It is a common sense as he would otherwise stay in his
home country .” 但是“more than he deserves”到什么程度，只有比较了才明白。
和正常居民比事实上最说明问题。不然，早些年唐人街的偷渡客也不少，也是”gets
more than he deserves“，但是并不颠覆正常社会的秩序，也没有大量消耗国家财政
，大家睁一只眼闭一只眼问题还不是太大。今天的问题是不仅消耗公共资源，而且要求
集体转正，并越来越成为新的左右国家政策的一股力量。换句话说，非法移民不仅要决
定自己在这里的未来，还要参与决定你们所有其他人的未来。这个是关键所在。这篇虚
构的文章虽然可能有些
细节和数据不确切，但还是比较形象的描述了这些问题。
说得离谱一点，就像比较癌细胞和正常细胞，癌细胞在体内获取养分和繁衍的能力和正
常细胞有的一比了，这个比较在标题上列出来以示警醒，应该是很有必要的。当然，也
许我说的过分了，也许用非正常细胞来描述更合适。
我自认为是个中间派，上次我个人是希望奥巴马连任的（但是没有预见到最后两年他会
干这些离谱的事）。但是这个时候，我认为往右比往左好。
.
【在 k***n 的大作中提到】
: Jose, being an illegal immigrant, certainly gets more than he deserves. It
: is a common sense as he would otherwise stay in his home country . So I
: would agree if the title simply said "非法移民的幸福生活".
: However, the title was "JOE vs. JOSE 非法移民的幸福生活". So it was a
: comparison and the OP, although made many mistakes in his calculation and
: assumptions, did a lousy job put together the comparison.
: I wanted my conservative friends to present the conservative ideas soundly.
: That's all.
:
: Jose
|
l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 78 当然可以expel, 就看你去不去做而已.
美墨边界有多长你知道嘛? 如果要完全阻止他们进来的话,肯定要重兵把守了. 完全没
有必要.
我老早就提出几条, 如果这样做了, 那么几年后就没有非法移民了. 但左逼民猪党会说
这样做不人道. 嘿嘿,反正尼玛嘴上两张皮,翻手为云覆手为雨.
美国政府可以做下面几条, 实际上,英国政府已经开始立法要这么做了.
1. 所有在美国的公司不可以雇用非法移民, 被发现的话,罚款到公司破产. 公司资产拍
卖所得分1/10给举报的.
2. 所有在美国的屋主不得租房给非法移民,被发现的话, 罚款到屋主破产. 屋主资产拍
卖所得分1/10给举报的.
3. 要求所有非法移民在半年内自动离开美国. 半年过后被警察抓住仍然留在美国的非
法移民在任何情况下不得给予美国身份.
4. 被抓住的非法移民送到labor camp工作,赚够了飞机票钱就递送他们出境.
5. 举报非法移民有奖 - 钱从labor camp工作所得出.
6. 开设新的临时工作签证,让这些临时工作签证移民进来(在忙季的时候)工作.忙季结
束后让他们回去. 延期滞留不回去的按非法移民处理.
is
first
【在 l******l 的大作中提到】
: Since you can not expel millions of Jose illegal, the practical solution is
: turning illegal into legal.
: The ultimate solution is to stop Jose illegal from sneaking in in the first
: place.
:
: 25.
: and
: per
|
l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 79 说得好.
支持.
more
【在 E**********l 的大作中提到】
: 就是因为和Joe比了，才令人震惊的发现非法移民的幸福程度。
: JOE vs. JOSE并不意味着Jose全面超越Joe才证明非法移民的幸福生活，那实在太可怕
: 了，意味着全美已成为彻底的黑社会。
: JOE vs. JOSE，发现Jose离Joe不远，甚至有局部优势，这就说明了问题的所在。所以
: ，没有这个比较就看不清 "非法移民的幸福生活"具体是怎么回事。
: 相对而言，如果没有这个比较，只是列举非法移民得到了哪些好处，我们可能不会明白
: 这和我们自身有哪些关联。正如你所说，“illegal immigrant, certainly gets more
: than he deserves. It is a common sense as he would otherwise stay in his
: home country .” 但是“more than he deserves”到什么程度，只有比较了才明白。
: 和正常居民比事实上最说明问题。不然，早些年唐人街的偷渡客也不少，也是”gets
|
j*****7
发帖数: 4348 | 80 你的共和党爷爷可不愿意这么干，非法移民的大雇主, 农场主, 建筑包工头等可都是共
和党的基本盘。
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: 当然可以expel, 就看你去不去做而已.
: 美墨边界有多长你知道嘛? 如果要完全阻止他们进来的话,肯定要重兵把守了. 完全没
: 有必要.
: 我老早就提出几条, 如果这样做了, 那么几年后就没有非法移民了. 但左逼民猪党会说
: 这样做不人道. 嘿嘿,反正尼玛嘴上两张皮,翻手为云覆手为雨.
: 美国政府可以做下面几条, 实际上,英国政府已经开始立法要这么做了.
: 1. 所有在美国的公司不可以雇用非法移民, 被发现的话,罚款到公司破产. 公司资产拍
: 卖所得分1/10给举报的.
: 2. 所有在美国的屋主不得租房给非法移民,被发现的话, 罚款到屋主破产. 屋主资产拍
: 卖所得分1/10给举报的.
|
|
|
c***z
发帖数: 6348 | 81 “Jose really shouldn't be cared. ”
I cannot agree with that. Jose is a human being and deserves to be cared.
Even criminals have human rights.
And I strongly support the free flow of people, capital and information,
across any borders.
and
they
【在 T*********I 的大作中提到】
: Jose really shouldn't be cared. They committed crimes to this country, and
: everyday their existence break the very laws you in other threads seem to
: care so much about.
: If Joe, the 47%er in your view doesn't need to be cared either because "they
: don't contribute much tax", then perhaps we should care about our own
: children, who did everything by the book, and who someday were supposed to
: inherit this once great land.
: Their interests are trampled upon and ruined away, and you, if you still
: care, should feel angry.
:
|
c***z
发帖数: 6348 | 82 没有人会过的太幸福，除了top 1%的寄生虫
Jose
【在 E**********l 的大作中提到】
: 参与一下讨论。
: "Jose really shouldn't be cared"， 但是事实上被cared太多，所以就过上了 "非法
: 移民的幸福生活"。
: “they (Joe) certainly enjoy much more benefits than Jose does” ，但是Jose
: 们仍然过着比他们自己正当所得的要幸福的多的生活，而不是说比Joe们更幸福的生活
: 才算幸福。所以这个标题没有问题。
: 柳传志经营联想赚了几亿，住进高档社区，一个贪官贪污几千万，也住进高档社区，子
: 女成为同学。
: 我们说贪官一家过着不该有的幸福生活，难道有错。
: 总体来说，Joe比Jose更幸福，Joe不会想成为Jose，而Jose还一心想成为Joe。但是，
|
c***z
发帖数: 6348 | 83 真的问题是 谁是癌细胞
more
【在 E**********l 的大作中提到】
: 就是因为和Joe比了，才令人震惊的发现非法移民的幸福程度。
: JOE vs. JOSE并不意味着Jose全面超越Joe才证明非法移民的幸福生活，那实在太可怕
: 了，意味着全美已成为彻底的黑社会。
: JOE vs. JOSE，发现Jose离Joe不远，甚至有局部优势，这就说明了问题的所在。所以
: ，没有这个比较就看不清 "非法移民的幸福生活"具体是怎么回事。
: 相对而言，如果没有这个比较，只是列举非法移民得到了哪些好处，我们可能不会明白
: 这和我们自身有哪些关联。正如你所说，“illegal immigrant, certainly gets more
: than he deserves. It is a common sense as he would otherwise stay in his
: home country .” 但是“more than he deserves”到什么程度，只有比较了才明白。
: 和正常居民比事实上最说明问题。不然，早些年唐人街的偷渡客也不少，也是”gets
|
c***z
发帖数: 6348 | 84 现在对于雇佣非法移民的惩罚是
First offenders can be fined $250-$2,000 per illegal employee.
For a second offense, the fine is $2,000-$5,000 per illegal employee.
Three or more offenses can cost an employer $3000-$10,000 per illegal
employee. A pattern of knowingly employing illegal immigrants can mean extra
fines and up to six months in jail for an employer.
【在 j*****7 的大作中提到】
: 你的共和党爷爷可不愿意这么干，非法移民的大雇主, 农场主, 建筑包工头等可都是共
: 和党的基本盘。
|
b*****e
发帖数: 53215 | 85 那你应该把你家门打开让老黑来住
【在 c***z 的大作中提到】
: “Jose really shouldn't be cared. ”
: I cannot agree with that. Jose is a human being and deserves to be cared.
: Even criminals have human rights.
: And I strongly support the free flow of people, capital and information,
: across any borders.
:
: and
: they
|
k***n
发帖数: 3158 | 86 "Jose全面超越Joe" or "Jose离Joe不远，甚至有局部优势"
Which one do you read as from the initial post? I read it as the former. I
can'jt understand anyone could read it as the latter. Commons sense told me
that it was not right as the illegals would otherwise choose to remain as
illegals.
What exactly is the "问题的所在" you want other people to see? Jose's being
an illegal immigration itself is enough of a reason to face and solve the
issue. We do NOT need make up numbers and lousy comparisons to convince
people.
more
【在 E**********l 的大作中提到】
: 就是因为和Joe比了，才令人震惊的发现非法移民的幸福程度。
: JOE vs. JOSE并不意味着Jose全面超越Joe才证明非法移民的幸福生活，那实在太可怕
: 了，意味着全美已成为彻底的黑社会。
: JOE vs. JOSE，发现Jose离Joe不远，甚至有局部优势，这就说明了问题的所在。所以
: ，没有这个比较就看不清 "非法移民的幸福生活"具体是怎么回事。
: 相对而言，如果没有这个比较，只是列举非法移民得到了哪些好处，我们可能不会明白
: 这和我们自身有哪些关联。正如你所说，“illegal immigrant, certainly gets more
: than he deserves. It is a common sense as he would otherwise stay in his
: home country .” 但是“more than he deserves”到什么程度，只有比较了才明白。
: 和正常居民比事实上最说明问题。不然，早些年唐人街的偷渡客也不少，也是”gets
|
T*********I
发帖数: 10729 | 87 的确是这样。这种法律极大增加了雇佣非法移民的成本。
所以不是不能解决非法移民的问题。而是为了选票不愿意解决。而在美国合法的公民太
过nice，也不用选票鼓励愿意解决这些问题的被选举人。
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: 当然可以expel, 就看你去不去做而已.
: 美墨边界有多长你知道嘛? 如果要完全阻止他们进来的话,肯定要重兵把守了. 完全没
: 有必要.
: 我老早就提出几条, 如果这样做了, 那么几年后就没有非法移民了. 但左逼民猪党会说
: 这样做不人道. 嘿嘿,反正尼玛嘴上两张皮,翻手为云覆手为雨.
: 美国政府可以做下面几条, 实际上,英国政府已经开始立法要这么做了.
: 1. 所有在美国的公司不可以雇用非法移民, 被发现的话,罚款到公司破产. 公司资产拍
: 卖所得分1/10给举报的.
: 2. 所有在美国的屋主不得租房给非法移民,被发现的话, 罚款到屋主破产. 屋主资产拍
: 卖所得分1/10给举报的.
|
E**********l
发帖数: 264 | 88 我确实是读过后也经过思考，理解到的是后者。
Initial post只是列举问题，而且主要是经济上，没有说这是双方生活的全部。就像报
告日军侵占华北，不需要再列出还有那些国土尚未沦陷。我们都很清楚，Joe有更广泛
的政治权利，Jose几乎没有。Joe还可以贷款等，这些是不需要列举的，是总所周知的
，至少到目前还不需要列举。很显然，在美国还不是很彻底的黑社会的时候，Joe不想
成为Jose，而Jose很想成为Joe。这一点我们都清楚。但是这一距离事实上不远了。
我说的“问题的所在”，是说问题在于当前制度，我说的“JOE vs. JOSE，发现Jose离
Joe不远，甚至有局部优势，这就说明了问题的所在” 是指社会缺乏制止这种状况存
在的机制。因为很显然，你我个人既不能造成这种局面，也改变不了。我希望其他人看
到，非法已经不妨碍获取巨大利益，甚至接近合法所能获得
的利益。至于这会接下来导致什么，我觉得是不用细说了。如果大家都希望改变它，那
么现有的希望是通过选举和立法。
话说回来，你说的“Jose's being an illegal immigration itself is enough of a
reason to face and solve the issue. ”，如果大家都这么认为就确实不用讨论了。
但是事实上很多人在呼喊非法不是什么问题，所以才有这些列举问题的post。
我也认为，即使非法移民没有获取好处，也需要重视，因为本质上是是否遵纪守法的问
题。不是因为非法者获取了好处而取缔，是因为非法者对正常社会秩序的破坏。所以从
字面上看我们是一致的，也就是应该制止这些非法行为。不过，如果你说的solve是让
他们直接转为合法，那就不敢苟同了。
me
being
【在 k***n 的大作中提到】
: "Jose全面超越Joe" or "Jose离Joe不远，甚至有局部优势"
: Which one do you read as from the initial post? I read it as the former. I
: can'jt understand anyone could read it as the latter. Commons sense told me
: that it was not right as the illegals would otherwise choose to remain as
: illegals.
: What exactly is the "问题的所在" you want other people to see? Jose's being
: an illegal immigration itself is enough of a reason to face and solve the
: issue. We do NOT need make up numbers and lousy comparisons to convince
: people.
:
|
l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 89 只有左逼们才会去认什么主子爷爷之类的,呵呵,
参见我的第6条. 中国人说的:你不过想喝点牛奶嘛, 又何必拉一头牛到家里呢.
【在 j*****7 的大作中提到】
: 你的共和党爷爷可不愿意这么干，非法移民的大雇主, 农场主, 建筑包工头等可都是共
: 和党的基本盘。
|
l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 90 一个, 现在法律没人去enforce.
第二, 现在的法律还太宽松.
extra
【在 c***z 的大作中提到】
: 现在对于雇佣非法移民的惩罚是
: First offenders can be fined $250-$2,000 per illegal employee.
: For a second offense, the fine is $2,000-$5,000 per illegal employee.
: Three or more offenses can cost an employer $3000-$10,000 per illegal
: employee. A pattern of knowingly employing illegal immigrants can mean extra
: fines and up to six months in jail for an employer.
|
|
|
l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 91 说得很好,再次支持一下.
另外现在非法移民都可以做律师了, 加州有的county竟然还选非法移民做政府官员.
美帝必亡啊.
【在 E**********l 的大作中提到】
: 我确实是读过后也经过思考，理解到的是后者。
: Initial post只是列举问题，而且主要是经济上，没有说这是双方生活的全部。就像报
: 告日军侵占华北，不需要再列出还有那些国土尚未沦陷。我们都很清楚，Joe有更广泛
: 的政治权利，Jose几乎没有。Joe还可以贷款等，这些是不需要列举的，是总所周知的
: ，至少到目前还不需要列举。很显然，在美国还不是很彻底的黑社会的时候，Joe不想
: 成为Jose，而Jose很想成为Joe。这一点我们都清楚。但是这一距离事实上不远了。
: 我说的“问题的所在”，是说问题在于当前制度，我说的“JOE vs. JOSE，发现Jose离
: Joe不远，甚至有局部优势，这就说明了问题的所在” 是指社会缺乏制止这种状况存
: 在的机制。因为很显然，你我个人既不能造成这种局面，也改变不了。我希望其他人看
: 到，非法已经不妨碍获取巨大利益，甚至接近合法所能获得
|
a*********a
发帖数: 3656 | 92 what you want here is the definition communism. As everything is "common".
so now, why don't we let the information of your address freely flow to me,
so I can put your house or car or whatever property on sale and let the
proceed freely flow to my bank
account. I m sure you don't have a problem with that.
across any borders.
【在 c***z 的大作中提到】
: 现在对于雇佣非法移民的惩罚是
: First offenders can be fined $250-$2,000 per illegal employee.
: For a second offense, the fine is $2,000-$5,000 per illegal employee.
: Three or more offenses can cost an employer $3000-$10,000 per illegal
: employee. A pattern of knowingly employing illegal immigrants can mean extra
: fines and up to six months in jail for an employer.
|
k***n
发帖数: 3158 | 93
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Joe Legal has to make his $7,231.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, etc.
Jose Illegal has to make his $31,200.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline,
and what he sends out of the country every month..
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
$7,231 VS $31,200, and you came up with the latter. Well, I guess I have
to respect that interpretation.
As I said, pointing out the problem of illegal immigration is necessary.
People who do not think this is a problem will be more firmed on their
position after looking at the made-up numbers and lousy comparisions from
the OP. I never question OP's intention, all I wanted to say is that he
did more damage than he intended to with his arguments.
【在 E**********l 的大作中提到】
: 我确实是读过后也经过思考，理解到的是后者。
: Initial post只是列举问题，而且主要是经济上，没有说这是双方生活的全部。就像报
: 告日军侵占华北，不需要再列出还有那些国土尚未沦陷。我们都很清楚，Joe有更广泛
: 的政治权利，Jose几乎没有。Joe还可以贷款等，这些是不需要列举的，是总所周知的
: ，至少到目前还不需要列举。很显然，在美国还不是很彻底的黑社会的时候，Joe不想
: 成为Jose，而Jose很想成为Joe。这一点我们都清楚。但是这一距离事实上不远了。
: 我说的“问题的所在”，是说问题在于当前制度，我说的“JOE vs. JOSE，发现Jose离
: Joe不远，甚至有局部优势，这就说明了问题的所在” 是指社会缺乏制止这种状况存
: 在的机制。因为很显然，你我个人既不能造成这种局面，也改变不了。我希望其他人看
: 到，非法已经不妨碍获取巨大利益，甚至接近合法所能获得
|
E**********l
发帖数: 264 | 94 如果数字能更准确些当然好，那大概可以做一个正规的报告了，这应该是件很值得去做
的事情。希望有人能做。我们看到的比较多的可能是在同一个混杂合法居民和非法居民
的社区，两者生活水平接近。在街上随便拦下一辆车，不查证件基本看不出。
就这里的数字，我不知道五万多最后能剩下多少，但是，一定有最后每年只剩了七千多
的合法工作族，和能剩三万多的非法族，这两者的人口都不少。
如果让我们去选，我相信到目前大多数人还是宁愿做只剩七千多的合法居民，也不
想失去身份。你说呢？所以，我把这个现象理解为非法一方可能获得的局部优势。只是
长此以往就不好说了。
etc.
gasoline,
【在 k***n 的大作中提到】
:
: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: Joe Legal has to make his $7,231.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, etc.
: Jose Illegal has to make his $31,200.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline,
: and what he sends out of the country every month..
: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: $7,231 VS $31,200, and you came up with the latter. Well, I guess I have
: to respect that interpretation.
: As I said, pointing out the problem of illegal immigration is necessary.
: People who do not think this is a problem will be more firmed on their
|
k***n
发帖数: 3158 | 95 we don't need to make things complicated
You certainly can 把这个现象理解为非法一方可能获得的局部优势 and your
opinion will be respected.
But "我相信到目前大多数人还是宁愿做只剩七千多的合法居民" is not what OP
touched in his way of derivation and comparison, which is what I questioned
We were not disucssing whether the issues should be faced and solved. We
were discussing how OP's derivation and comparision may actually hurt his
intention, which I said repeatedly that I don't disagree entirely.
You said you read "Jose离Joe不远，甚至有局部优势" instead of
"Jose全面超越Joe" from OP's derivation and comparison. I can't understand.
All I can explain is that you have this opinion in your mind and it is not
from what you read out of OP's initial post.
【在 E**********l 的大作中提到】
: 如果数字能更准确些当然好，那大概可以做一个正规的报告了，这应该是件很值得去做
: 的事情。希望有人能做。我们看到的比较多的可能是在同一个混杂合法居民和非法居民
: 的社区，两者生活水平接近。在街上随便拦下一辆车，不查证件基本看不出。
: 就这里的数字，我不知道五万多最后能剩下多少，但是，一定有最后每年只剩了七千多
: 的合法工作族，和能剩三万多的非法族，这两者的人口都不少。
: 如果让我们去选，我相信到目前大多数人还是宁愿做只剩七千多的合法居民，也不
: 想失去身份。你说呢？所以，我把这个现象理解为非法一方可能获得的局部优势。只是
: 长此以往就不好说了。
:
: etc.
|
i******b
发帖数: 1780 | 96 你这吃屎的加州猫,死加拿大gay,你知道吗? 北美的waitress是收小费的,只要不是在你
妈逼操你屁眼的黑墨区上班, 在好点白人区一天赚个200都不成问题,这还没加5元/小时
底薪.
【在 a**t 的大作中提到】
: Fart,as far as I know, in North America, waitresses make less than $5 an
: hour, dumb
|
i******b
发帖数: 1780 | 97 你知道什么叫self-deportation吗?很简单,通过e-verify,根本不需要去deport,这群老
墨没工作没钱赚了,自动滚蛋.
is
first
【在 l******l 的大作中提到】
: Since you can not expel millions of Jose illegal, the practical solution is
: turning illegal into legal.
: The ultimate solution is to stop Jose illegal from sneaking in in the first
: place.
:
: 25.
: and
: per
|
i******b
发帖数: 1780 | 98 对,英国已经开始立法房东不能把房子租给非法移民.
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: 当然可以expel, 就看你去不去做而已.
: 美墨边界有多长你知道嘛? 如果要完全阻止他们进来的话,肯定要重兵把守了. 完全没
: 有必要.
: 我老早就提出几条, 如果这样做了, 那么几年后就没有非法移民了. 但左逼民猪党会说
: 这样做不人道. 嘿嘿,反正尼玛嘴上两张皮,翻手为云覆手为雨.
: 美国政府可以做下面几条, 实际上,英国政府已经开始立法要这么做了.
: 1. 所有在美国的公司不可以雇用非法移民, 被发现的话,罚款到公司破产. 公司资产拍
: 卖所得分1/10给举报的.
: 2. 所有在美国的屋主不得租房给非法移民,被发现的话, 罚款到屋主破产. 屋主资产拍
: 卖所得分1/10给举报的.
|
J*****e
发帖数: 158 | 99 我不理解，为什么非法移民可以和普通公民一样从政府领福利？
这些人没在政府登记没交税，在政府看来难道不是像空气一样不存在吗
25.
and
per
【在 T*********I 的大作中提到】
: You have two families: " Joe Legal" and " Jose Illegal."
: Both families have two parents, two children, and live in California.
: Joe Legal works in construction, has a Social Security Number and makes $25.
: 00 per hour with taxes deducted.
: Jose Illegal also works in construction, has NO Social Security Number, and
: gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table."
: Ready? Now pay attention....
: Joe Legal: $25.00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week, or $52,000.00 per
: year. Now take 30% away for state and federal tax; Joe Legal now has $31,
: 231.00.
|
t********r
发帖数: 492 | 100 理解合法和非法移民，谁都想要更好的生活。可惜无法共赢。手段也不一样。
非法移民在美国没有赤字之前，还是挖沙子挣路费吧,要不把墨西哥州留给他们。 |
|
|
T*********I
发帖数: 10729 | 101 我也希望他们是空气。但是福利很多不会严格执行身份检查。加上如果家里有一个合法
的，其它同住的非法就会同样适用。这也许就是为什么Jose希望成为Joe。这样更多
Jose的亲戚朋友可以到这里和成为Joe的Jose一起住。而美国纳税人在经济上，把本该
是给我们的孩子的钱，通过福利送给这些非法Joses。
很多申请往往充满漏洞，大政府能做成高精尖的系统吗？
下面是Los Angeles County（一个county而已）的Mayor发布的信息。
Illegal Immigrants Receive $300 Million In Social Services From Los Angeles
County
Approximately $300 million was spent on social services for families of
illegal immigrants during the first half of this year in Los Angeles County,
officials said Thursday.
Mayor Michael D. Antonovich announced that the Department of Public Social
Services issued $291 million in welfare and food stamp benefits to illegal
immigrant parents for their native-born children during the first six months
of 2015.
At this rate, the county will spend nearly $600 million in benefits for
illegal immigrants by the end of the year, according to officials.
Approximately $110 million was spent in CalWORKs welfare program and $180
million was spent in CalFresh food stamp program, from Jan. through June,
according to officials.
More than 20 percent of the County’s public welfare funds are spent on
illegal immigrants. This does not include the $550 million spent on public
safety, nearly $500 million on healthcare, and hundreds of millions spent on
education, according to officials.
“Illegal immigration continues to cost County taxpayers nearly $2 billion
dollars a year and siphons resources away from vital municipal services for
legal immigrants and county residents,” said Mayor Antonovich.
【在 J*****e 的大作中提到】
: 我不理解，为什么非法移民可以和普通公民一样从政府领福利？
: 这些人没在政府登记没交税，在政府看来难道不是像空气一样不存在吗
:
: 25.
: and
: per
|
B*******t
发帖数: 1623 | 102 非法移民没有工作又咋交税呢？左党不是声称非移贡献的税收远超他们享受的benefits
吗？
extra
【在 c***z 的大作中提到】
: 现在对于雇佣非法移民的惩罚是
: First offenders can be fined $250-$2,000 per illegal employee.
: For a second offense, the fine is $2,000-$5,000 per illegal employee.
: Three or more offenses can cost an employer $3000-$10,000 per illegal
: employee. A pattern of knowingly employing illegal immigrants can mean extra
: fines and up to six months in jail for an employer.
|
a**t
发帖数: 3833 | 103 You mom might be fucked a dozen times in a good, but most days you mom was
fucked at most once or two. You dumb. Go fuck yourself
【在 i******b 的大作中提到】
: 你这吃屎的加州猫,死加拿大gay,你知道吗? 北美的waitress是收小费的,只要不是在你
: 妈逼操你屁眼的黑墨区上班, 在好点白人区一天赚个200都不成问题,这还没加5元/小时
: 底薪.
|
S*******h
发帖数: 7021 | 104 See this. TRUMP's new immigration plan will break Jose Illegal's dream from
inside out.
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/immigration-reform |
l******t
发帖数: 2788 | 105 Illegal也可以申请food stample等福利？加州？
25.
and
per
【在 T*********I 的大作中提到】
: You have two families: " Joe Legal" and " Jose Illegal."
: Both families have two parents, two children, and live in California.
: Joe Legal works in construction, has a Social Security Number and makes $25.
: 00 per hour with taxes deducted.
: Jose Illegal also works in construction, has NO Social Security Number, and
: gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table."
: Ready? Now pay attention....
: Joe Legal: $25.00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week, or $52,000.00 per
: year. Now take 30% away for state and federal tax; Joe Legal now has $31,
: 231.00.
|
X***R
发帖数: 2410 | 106 就是这样的，其实美国那些工资根本就不做数，
要算就算赤裸裸的税后，
然后就显原型了。
那些非法移民及其后代，日子比那些老千马工没得差
还整天喊权力不够
【在 E**********l 的大作中提到】
: 冒个泡吧，看完这个想起之前的一个小故事，也解开了多年的一个小疑惑：
: 那是06年我还在读书的时候，房东老太太已退休多年，腿脚不便，周末常请一个南美大
: 姐，叫Victoria，来打扫草坪，也是15块/小时。Victoria叫老太太mami，很听话。老
: 太太说Victoria是几年前从秘鲁还是委内瑞拉偷渡来的，当时无家可归，在她家门口不
: 远哭泣，老太太给她吃住，救济了她一段时间，然后她开始帮附近的人打扫，活还挺多
: ，大概都是15块/小时。经常还有些小费。
: 老太太说到这的时候笑了，是愉快的那种，说Victoria前不久已经买了个house，孩子
: 好像也过来了，现在请她来打扫有时请不来，她会告诉老太太说“sorry mami, I am
: on vacation now...”
: 我一直有些疑惑，15块/小时，要买house怎么可能。现在一算，这一年攒3万多，和我
|
