由买买提看人间百态

boards

本页内容为未名空间相应帖子的节选和存档,一周内的贴子最多显示50字,超过一周显示500字 访问原贴
USANews版 - 亲手制止mass shooting的officer谈教师配枪的可行性 (转载)
相关主题
LV警察现在断定枪手有同谋了AL州一个带枪的父亲在麦当劳阻止了带枪 抢劫!
老川又对了一把说Good Guys with Guns的可以歇了:More Guns = More Killing
没有CCW的加州,左逼的报应底特律警察局长:枪威慑、阻止了犯罪
加州十余良民苦候警察4小时不至,终惨遭性虐 (转载)看一下关于Gun Free Zone的一些事实吧
疤蟆给了4亿美元给所谓的太阳能公司,然后这个公司变成了垃圾场捞钱快,烧钱更快:教主的财政危机
装B被雷劈:德国又遭恐怖袭击罗纳德-里根总统:欧洲自由的象征
这个校园枪手是天使 - 该如何Spin啊联邦政府的避孕药规定被指侵犯宗教自由
佛州gun owner 阻止了可能的公园集会大屠杀,有很多小孩!Obamacare's Gross Costs Double to $1.76 Trillion, CBO Projects
相关话题的讨论汇总
话题: he话题: gun话题: ccw话题: teacher话题: armed
进入USANews版参与讨论
1 (共1页)
g*****1
发帖数: 286
1
【 以下文字转载自 WaterWorld 讨论区 】
发信人: gohigh1 (nini), 信区: WaterWorld
标 题: 亲手制止mass shooting的officer谈教师配枪的可行性
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Dec 20 12:30:37 2012, 美东)
她认为非常不可行.她认为自己当时之所以能制止屠杀,是因为她受到了很严格的训练.
让学校的教师接受这样的训练基本上不可能.
很少有人能够同时做教师和警察两份工作.
"And to answer your question, you know, a teacher wants to be a teacher. He
or she doesn't want to be a police officer. And I think it's -- and I hope
people just really listen here, because I hear both sides of this argument.
And I hear where you are coming from. And both arguments make sense to me.
So, in my opinion, to -- to tell a teacher that he or she needs to be armed
is -- that is ridiculous. It just -- it doesn't make sense. That is not
their calling. Their calling is to be a teacher or to be a pilot. And when
you have trained personal in place, it is their job. And I think rather than
having -- I think everybody has the right to bear arms.
But I want to say this: I was a very well trained officer from a very
aggressive police department where we -- I never called SWAT once when I was
on the department, and we had shootings all the time. Because SWAT doesn't
have really better training than us. They just have better equipment."
完整的访谈在下面:
MORGAN: In the wake of the Newtown tragedy, gun sales are soaring across
America, especially for weapons like the AR 15 that was used. Back with my
studio guests. I want to bring in now Jeanne Assam, who shot a gunman at her
church.
Welcome to you, Mrs. Assam. You have an extraordinary story because they you
were in a church when a madman came in, a young man armed to the teeth. I
think he had an AR 15 as well, And began shooting people. Tell me what
happened.
JEANNE ASSAM, STOPPED GUNMAN AT HER CHURCH: He had already shot and killed
people in arzata (ph) at a facility called Youth With a Mission. And then he
went home and slept in his bed. And the next morning, he came to New Life
Church and he waited for the uniform law enforcement to leave. He waited an
hour in the parking lot and then he -- as soon as they left, he made his
move. He came into the church. He -- I apologize. He shot some people out in
the parking lot. He killed two sisters and severely wounded their father.
And I heard the shots, because it was obviously very loud. And he came into
the church. Everybody -- there were hundreds of people in the hallway. This
hallway is like 100 meters long and 30 -- about 30 feet wide. And it houses
all the special needs adults, daycare, classroom for youth.
So everybody scattered all of a sudden. Everybody was like, get down; he has
a gun. And I took the handgun out of the waste ban of my jeans and sprinted
down the hall toward him. Like I said, everybody scattered. It was like a
miracle. Everybody found a place to hide. Then I took cover, and I had just
seconds to come up with a real solid game plan.
And I just said, God please with me, and then stepped out and said police
officer, drop your weapon. And he turned toward me with his AR 15, and I
fired five rounds rapidly. And he fell back -- all the way back on his back.
And I just walked toward him with my gun pointed at him. And he sits up and
I said, drop your weapon or I will kill you. And he fires at me, so were
shooting at each other. And I shot him again and killed him.
MORGAN: Let me jump in. That is an act of extraordinary courage on your part
. You were a trained officer. And you were carrying a gun for that reason.
What is your belief about the claim that many people that, that if the
teachers had been armed at Sandy Hook, that they could have averted the
disaster, and that civilians should be armed for that reason, to protect
themselves from mass killings like this?
ASSAM: Let me just very quickly say, I'm very sorry to all the parents who
lost their children and to the other people who lost the adults in this
massacre. I don't even know what to say to you. Just know that my thoughts
and prayers are with you. And I'm very sorry. And stick together. You are
going to need each other. Stick together and be there for each other.
And to answer your question, you know, a teacher wants to be a teacher. He
or she doesn't want to be a police officer. And I think it's -- and I hope
people just really listen here, because I hear both sides of this argument.
And I hear where you are coming from. And both arguments make sense to me.
So, in my opinion, to -- to tell a teacher that he or she needs to be armed
is -- that is ridiculous. It just -- it doesn't make sense. That is not
their calling. Their calling is to be a teacher or to be a pilot. And when
you have trained personal in place, it is their job. And I think rather than
having -- I think everybody has the right to bear arms.
But I want to say this: I was a very well trained officer from a very
aggressive police department where we -- I never called SWAT once when I was
on the department, and we had shootings all the time. Because SWAT doesn't
have really better training than us. They just have better equipment.
MORGAN: I have to jump in. That is the point, that you were highly trained
and that's why you were able to do what you did.
L*******r
发帖数: 8961
2
既能当老师又能当警察的人的工资得多高呀?绝对是社会精英了。
t**x
发帖数: 20965
3
没人建议教师都要配枪。
应该是通过极其严格审核的教师可以有权力在学校带小弹夹的手枪。
l******t
发帖数: 12659
4
也就是说,配备专门的持枪保安
训练老师、员工突发事件的应变,
可以尽量避免Sandy Hook 类似的悲剧
l****z
发帖数: 29846
5
废话, 她当然认为不可行了, 如果可行了她的饭碗不是要丢了?
现役军人会说老百姓其实可以担当军人的任务?
g*****1
发帖数: 286
6
所以板上这几位拥枪派,别看他们平时CCW的叫的欢.真让他们碰上一个拿着ar-15的抢手
.估计都得屎尿齐流.

【在 L*******r 的大作中提到】
: 既能当老师又能当警察的人的工资得多高呀?绝对是社会精英了。
g*****1
发帖数: 286
7
审核有什么用?人家说了要严格训练.
所以更可行的是配专门的保安,然后保安的工资从枪上抽税.每只枪每年交几百块的
registration fee.美国现在好几亿的枪,这么收上来的税足够给重要场所安装金属探测
器,以及用来雇保安了.

【在 t**x 的大作中提到】
: 没人建议教师都要配枪。
: 应该是通过极其严格审核的教师可以有权力在学校带小弹夹的手枪。

g*****1
发帖数: 286
8
well,你每周枪械训练几次,人家训练几次?你杀过几个凶手,参加过几次枪战?
在这个问题上,我觉得人家officer比你靠谱.

【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: 废话, 她当然认为不可行了, 如果可行了她的饭碗不是要丢了?
: 现役军人会说老百姓其实可以担当军人的任务?

i***a
发帖数: 4718
9
真正的恐怖分子还没来,美国就先乱套了。
TMD原来拉登提倡一下美国全民拥枪就行了。

【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: 废话, 她当然认为不可行了, 如果可行了她的饭碗不是要丢了?
: 现役军人会说老百姓其实可以担当军人的任务?

C********r
发帖数: 114
10
“So, in my opinion, to -- to tell a teacher that he or she needs to be
armed
is -- that is ridiculous. It just -- it doesn't make sense. That is not
their calling. Their calling is to be a teacher or to be a pilot. And when
you have trained personal in place, it is their job. And I think rather than
having -- I think everybody has the right to bear arms. ”
太明显了,在这一段他多次结巴,和之前的流利谈吐完全,尤其是描述紧张的枪击现场
时完全不同,有两个可能:
1.他自己在撒谎。
2.他受人指示在撒谎。(可能记者在之前告诉他对于这个问题必须这么回答)
总之是言不由衷。
荔波肉天生爱撒谎,天生爱信谎言!
相关主题
装B被雷劈:德国又遭恐怖袭击AL州一个带枪的父亲在麦当劳阻止了带枪 抢劫!
这个校园枪手是天使 - 该如何Spin啊说Good Guys with Guns的可以歇了:More Guns = More Killing
佛州gun owner 阻止了可能的公园集会大屠杀,有很多小孩!底特律警察局长:枪威慑、阻止了犯罪
进入USANews版参与讨论
l****z
发帖数: 29846
11
那禁枪派的呢? 是不是直接露出菊花准备给人干了?

【在 g*****1 的大作中提到】
: 所以板上这几位拥枪派,别看他们平时CCW的叫的欢.真让他们碰上一个拿着ar-15的抢手
: .估计都得屎尿齐流.

l****z
发帖数: 29846
12
逻辑啊,逻辑.
你要是指责国足踢得不好,国足队员说你一周训练几次? 跑一万米跑多少? 颠球能颠几
个?
是不是国足球员因此比你靠谱?

【在 g*****1 的大作中提到】
: well,你每周枪械训练几次,人家训练几次?你杀过几个凶手,参加过几次枪战?
: 在这个问题上,我觉得人家officer比你靠谱.

l****z
发帖数: 29846
13
And I think rather than
having -- I think everybody has the right to bear arms. ”
==================
这段最搞笑了.
b*****e
发帖数: 5133
14
教师配枪的可行性可以参见已经实行的FFDO(Federal Flight Deck Officer)项目。9/
11后商业航班飞行员条件合格的可以受训带枪。并非飞行员只能开飞机,教师只能教书
,多个好手艺技多不压身嘀。至于要不要配枪不是楼主的议题,不展开说了。
b****r
发帖数: 1395
15

than
针对最后一句,这个大帽子扣的没有任何价值,不对你的argument起到
任何帮助。而且这和政治信仰无关,有些人就是爱撒谎。而对于爱信谎言
并不是真的爱,而是很难分辨。

【在 C********r 的大作中提到】
: “So, in my opinion, to -- to tell a teacher that he or she needs to be
: armed
: is -- that is ridiculous. It just -- it doesn't make sense. That is not
: their calling. Their calling is to be a teacher or to be a pilot. And when
: you have trained personal in place, it is their job. And I think rather than
: having -- I think everybody has the right to bear arms. ”
: 太明显了,在这一段他多次结巴,和之前的流利谈吐完全,尤其是描述紧张的枪击现场
: 时完全不同,有两个可能:
: 1.他自己在撒谎。
: 2.他受人指示在撒谎。(可能记者在之前告诉他对于这个问题必须这么回答)

g*****1
发帖数: 286
16
你又开始胡乱歪曲了.
更为合适的比喻是,一边是一个专业足球运动员(officer),跟你讲怎么才能更好的射门,
过人
(制止mass killing)
另一边是一个业余的足球爱好者跟你讲解,你觉得那个更靠谱?

【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: 逻辑啊,逻辑.
: 你要是指责国足踢得不好,国足队员说你一周训练几次? 跑一万米跑多少? 颠球能颠几
: 个?
: 是不是国足球员因此比你靠谱?

g*****1
发帖数: 286
17
既然飞行员带枪就解决问题的话,那为什么飞机上要配一个undercover的US marshal?

【在 b*****e 的大作中提到】
: 教师配枪的可行性可以参见已经实行的FFDO(Federal Flight Deck Officer)项目。9/
: 11后商业航班飞行员条件合格的可以受训带枪。并非飞行员只能开飞机,教师只能教书
: ,多个好手艺技多不压身嘀。至于要不要配枪不是楼主的议题,不展开说了。

C********r
发帖数: 114
18
连这篇对话的记录者都在此处,用这种记录方式暗示读者,这个警察在此段话中撒谎。
还被楼主这样的拿出来做自己的argument。你说不是爱信撒谎是什么?
在枪支问题要么都是大帽子,要么都不是大帽子,在于你怎么看。因为这条路一旦走上
就没有回头路。

【在 b****r 的大作中提到】
:
: than
: 针对最后一句,这个大帽子扣的没有任何价值,不对你的argument起到
: 任何帮助。而且这和政治信仰无关,有些人就是爱撒谎。而对于爱信谎言
: 并不是真的爱,而是很难分辨。

b*****e
发帖数: 5133
19
这还真要俺回答啊?嗨!
不是每个飞行员都带枪嘀,只是允许飞行员培训合格后带枪。
既然你知道了现在每个飞机上都有武装警卫来对付都已仔细搜过身的乘客,你也知道什
么才是有效保护手段,什么是嘴上说的笔上写的没有真正保护能力的一些禁枪区。
另外US Marshals(USMS)不是Air Marshals(FAMS),一个司法部的,一个是国安部所属
的TSA的。

【在 g*****1 的大作中提到】
: 既然飞行员带枪就解决问题的话,那为什么飞机上要配一个undercover的US marshal?
g*****1
发帖数: 286
20
如果你无法辩驳对方的arguments,你应该低头想想自己的arguments是不是有问题,对方
说的是不是有一定的道理,没有人在所有问题上都会考虑完全.
而不是像你现在这样指责对方受人胁迫,这只能表明你和weak,想把头埋在沙子里

【在 C********r 的大作中提到】
: 连这篇对话的记录者都在此处,用这种记录方式暗示读者,这个警察在此段话中撒谎。
: 还被楼主这样的拿出来做自己的argument。你说不是爱信撒谎是什么?
: 在枪支问题要么都是大帽子,要么都不是大帽子,在于你怎么看。因为这条路一旦走上
: 就没有回头路。

相关主题
看一下关于Gun Free Zone的一些事实吧联邦政府的避孕药规定被指侵犯宗教自由
捞钱快,烧钱更快:教主的财政危机Obamacare's Gross Costs Double to $1.76 Trillion, CBO Projects
罗纳德-里根总统:欧洲自由的象征Firms Miss Out on Jobs Push
进入USANews版参与讨论
C********r
发帖数: 114
21
需要去辩驳对方一个连他自己也不相信的argument吗?
你是否应该低头想想,这个警察为何在这里撒谎呢?

【在 g*****1 的大作中提到】
: 如果你无法辩驳对方的arguments,你应该低头想想自己的arguments是不是有问题,对方
: 说的是不是有一定的道理,没有人在所有问题上都会考虑完全.
: 而不是像你现在这样指责对方受人胁迫,这只能表明你和weak,想把头埋在沙子里

g*****1
发帖数: 286
22
你说说吧,airplane和airport这种gun freezone + addditional guards + security
measure这种方式,比单纯的CCW哪种更安全?
在飞机上起主要作用的是Marshals还是CCW?

【在 b*****e 的大作中提到】
: 这还真要俺回答啊?嗨!
: 不是每个飞行员都带枪嘀,只是允许飞行员培训合格后带枪。
: 既然你知道了现在每个飞机上都有武装警卫来对付都已仔细搜过身的乘客,你也知道什
: 么才是有效保护手段,什么是嘴上说的笔上写的没有真正保护能力的一些禁枪区。
: 另外US Marshals(USMS)不是Air Marshals(FAMS),一个司法部的,一个是国安部所属
: 的TSA的。

g*****1
发帖数: 286
23
你有确凿证据证明她撒谎吗?

【在 C********r 的大作中提到】
: 需要去辩驳对方一个连他自己也不相信的argument吗?
: 你是否应该低头想想,这个警察为何在这里撒谎呢?

g*****1
发帖数: 286
24
http://www.examiner.com/article/new-life-hero-jeanne-assam-talk
school-shooting-gun-control
这是她接受的另外一个采访,可见她的观点是很consisitent的,你去看看她是free-will
,还是被胁迫了?

【在 C********r 的大作中提到】
: 需要去辩驳对方一个连他自己也不相信的argument吗?
: 你是否应该低头想想,这个警察为何在这里撒谎呢?

C********r
发帖数: 114
25
确凿

证据
真有趣
你该退下去想想了。
恭喜你终于生活在确凿证据的时代了。
因为确凿证据时代来的临时,人类已经无须判断力,辨析力了。

【在 g*****1 的大作中提到】
: 你有确凿证据证明她撒谎吗?
C********r
发帖数: 114
26
撒谎露一次马脚就够了。她也没那么傻。而且谎言重复多次,会讲的和真话的一样,这
点你不会也不知道,也需要确凿的证据吧?

will

【在 g*****1 的大作中提到】
: http://www.examiner.com/article/new-life-hero-jeanne-assam-talk
: school-shooting-gun-control
: 这是她接受的另外一个采访,可见她的观点是很consisitent的,你去看看她是free-will
: ,还是被胁迫了?

g*****1
发帖数: 286
27
呵呵,见识了....
如果是你辩论不过的人,你就说他们是撒谎,都是被胁迫...这样你可以战无不胜,仙福永
享,寿与天齐.

【在 C********r 的大作中提到】
: 撒谎露一次马脚就够了。她也没那么傻。而且谎言重复多次,会讲的和真话的一样,这
: 点你不会也不知道,也需要确凿的证据吧?
:
: will

b*****e
发帖数: 5133
28
还是围绕原来问题讨论吧,不要俺每回答一个问题,就会接着有一个新问题。
学校早有机场这种安全保障还会有一个接一个校园枪击吗?大家会在这里讨论吗?问题
在于现在学校既没有机场这类安全保障,也不让CCW,根本不是两者哪种更安全的问题
,而是依法手无寸铁没有安全的问题。校园安全必须两者有一,你的问题不也真是要二
选一吗?
对学校(主要是中小学,也就是禁枪区里定义的school,不是college)俺实际上倾向前
者,对于大学college则是后者。这和楼主讨论“教师配枪的可行性”也有点距离,不
展开了。
和帖子主题相关的需要重复一遍,“教师配枪的可行性”直接可比就是现行的FFDO (
Federal Flight Deck Officer)。
关于“飞机上起主要作用的是Marshals还是CCW?”,答案只有一个,危机出现会起主要
作用的是CCW的Air Marshals,飞行员可以但不是100%带枪,而百姓在飞机上100%不能
CCW。百姓能不能在飞机上CCW也不是这里要讨论的,如有需要可以另外开贴。

【在 g*****1 的大作中提到】
: 你说说吧,airplane和airport这种gun freezone + addditional guards + security
: measure这种方式,比单纯的CCW哪种更安全?
: 在飞机上起主要作用的是Marshals还是CCW?

g*****1
发帖数: 286
29
看来咱们的观点重合度还是很大的,中小学应该像机场那样的安检和专门的保安.这笔费
用的来源可以从枪支税里面来.美国有好几亿杆枪,每只枪一年交100刀的话,估计是够用
了.

【在 b*****e 的大作中提到】
: 还是围绕原来问题讨论吧,不要俺每回答一个问题,就会接着有一个新问题。
: 学校早有机场这种安全保障还会有一个接一个校园枪击吗?大家会在这里讨论吗?问题
: 在于现在学校既没有机场这类安全保障,也不让CCW,根本不是两者哪种更安全的问题
: ,而是依法手无寸铁没有安全的问题。校园安全必须两者有一,你的问题不也真是要二
: 选一吗?
: 对学校(主要是中小学,也就是禁枪区里定义的school,不是college)俺实际上倾向前
: 者,对于大学college则是后者。这和楼主讨论“教师配枪的可行性”也有点距离,不
: 展开了。
: 和帖子主题相关的需要重复一遍,“教师配枪的可行性”直接可比就是现行的FFDO (
: Federal Flight Deck Officer)。

a*f
发帖数: 5682
30
On the whole, guns are more likely to raise the risk of injury than to
confer protection.
A gun in the home is 22 times more likely to be used in a completed or
attempted suicide (11x), criminal assault or homicide (7x), or unintentional
shooting death or injury (4x) than to be used in a self-defense shooting. (
Kellermann, 1998, p. 263).
Guns are used to intimidate and threaten 4 to 6 times more often than they
are used to thwart crime (Hemenway, p. 269).
Every year there are only about 200 legally justified self-defense homicides
by private citizens (FBI, Expanded Homicide Data, Table 15) compared with
over 30,000 gun deaths (NCIPC).
A 2009 study found that people in possession of a gun are 4.5 times more
likely to be shot in an assault (Branas).
相关主题
德州女警下班后用配枪制服影院枪手 (转载)老川又对了一把
白宫半年前就知道健保网站有问题没有CCW的加州,左逼的报应
LV警察现在断定枪手有同谋了加州十余良民苦候警察4小时不至,终惨遭性虐 (转载)
进入USANews版参与讨论
C********r
发帖数: 114
31
有些数据是统计不到的,因为它没有发生。
例如因为公民拥枪,使很多罪案不发生了,例如入室犯罪等。
所以argue枪支负面的数据多,一点也不奇怪。
因为这些数据根本不能动摇支持拥枪,反对禁枪和管制枪械者的观点。

unintentional
homicides

【在 a*f 的大作中提到】
: On the whole, guns are more likely to raise the risk of injury than to
: confer protection.
: A gun in the home is 22 times more likely to be used in a completed or
: attempted suicide (11x), criminal assault or homicide (7x), or unintentional
: shooting death or injury (4x) than to be used in a self-defense shooting. (
: Kellermann, 1998, p. 263).
: Guns are used to intimidate and threaten 4 to 6 times more often than they
: are used to thwart crime (Hemenway, p. 269).
: Every year there are only about 200 legally justified self-defense homicides
: by private citizens (FBI, Expanded Homicide Data, Table 15) compared with

g*****1
发帖数: 286
32
This is good statistics

unintentional
homicides

【在 a*f 的大作中提到】
: On the whole, guns are more likely to raise the risk of injury than to
: confer protection.
: A gun in the home is 22 times more likely to be used in a completed or
: attempted suicide (11x), criminal assault or homicide (7x), or unintentional
: shooting death or injury (4x) than to be used in a self-defense shooting. (
: Kellermann, 1998, p. 263).
: Guns are used to intimidate and threaten 4 to 6 times more often than they
: are used to thwart crime (Hemenway, p. 269).
: Every year there are only about 200 legally justified self-defense homicides
: by private citizens (FBI, Expanded Homicide Data, Table 15) compared with

a*f
发帖数: 5682
33
你说的情况就在我列的统计数据之中,可见拥枪者有多blind

【在 C********r 的大作中提到】
: 有些数据是统计不到的,因为它没有发生。
: 例如因为公民拥枪,使很多罪案不发生了,例如入室犯罪等。
: 所以argue枪支负面的数据多,一点也不奇怪。
: 因为这些数据根本不能动摇支持拥枪,反对禁枪和管制枪械者的观点。
:
: unintentional
: homicides

C********r
发帖数: 114
34
在哪里请明示!

【在 a*f 的大作中提到】
: 你说的情况就在我列的统计数据之中,可见拥枪者有多blind
C********r
发帖数: 114
35
在哪里请明示!

【在 a*f 的大作中提到】
: 你说的情况就在我列的统计数据之中,可见拥枪者有多blind
C********r
发帖数: 114
36
哈哈,高实在是高!
不要确凿的证据了?来“凡是”了?
这段对话明显暴露了一个典型liar的破绽,你若决定视而不见,我也没意见。

【在 g*****1 的大作中提到】
: 呵呵,见识了....
: 如果是你辩论不过的人,你就说他们是撒谎,都是被胁迫...这样你可以战无不胜,仙福永
: 享,寿与天齐.

a*f
发帖数: 5682
37
Guns are used to intimidate and threaten 4 to 6 times more often than they
are used to thwart crime (Hemenway, p. 269).

【在 C********r 的大作中提到】
: 在哪里请明示!
C********r
发帖数: 114
38
看来不是我BLIND,
而是你的理解力低.
我说的是因为有拥枪,所以好人手里的枪,整体上对坏人作奸犯科的威慑力,造成很多
罪案根本没有发生,而不是说已发生的罪案被中止而未遂。明白了吗?

they

【在 a*f 的大作中提到】
: Guns are used to intimidate and threaten 4 to 6 times more often than they
: are used to thwart crime (Hemenway, p. 269).

g*****1
发帖数: 286
39
如果你想这样胡搅蛮缠下去的话,请随意,我就不奉陪了.
我这个帖子不是给你一个人看的,我相信其他看到这个讨论的人自然有他们的判断.

【在 C********r 的大作中提到】
: 哈哈,高实在是高!
: 不要确凿的证据了?来“凡是”了?
: 这段对话明显暴露了一个典型liar的破绽,你若决定视而不见,我也没意见。

a*f
发帖数: 5682
40
那就对比一下美国和其他枪支管理严格的发达国家吧。
U.S. homicide rates are 6.9 times higher than rates in 22 other populous
high-income countries combined, despite similar non-lethal crime and
violence rates. The firearm homicide rate in the U.S. is 19.5 times higher (
Richardson, p.1).

【在 C********r 的大作中提到】
: 看来不是我BLIND,
: 而是你的理解力低.
: 我说的是因为有拥枪,所以好人手里的枪,整体上对坏人作奸犯科的威慑力,造成很多
: 罪案根本没有发生,而不是说已发生的罪案被中止而未遂。明白了吗?
:
: they

相关主题
加州十余良民苦候警察4小时不至,终惨遭性虐 (转载)这个校园枪手是天使 - 该如何Spin啊
疤蟆给了4亿美元给所谓的太阳能公司,然后这个公司变成了垃圾场佛州gun owner 阻止了可能的公园集会大屠杀,有很多小孩!
装B被雷劈:德国又遭恐怖袭击AL州一个带枪的父亲在麦当劳阻止了带枪 抢劫!
进入USANews版参与讨论
c**********d
发帖数: 2428
41
飞机员又叫Flight Crew, 空乘人员叫 Cabin Crew. air marshal 是在驾驶舱上班吗?

【在 g*****1 的大作中提到】
: 既然飞行员带枪就解决问题的话,那为什么飞机上要配一个undercover的US marshal?
c**********d
发帖数: 2428
42
你想想这种更安全的方法的代价是什么?你愿意每天付飞机票的价钱送孩子上学吗?
而且air marshal 就是CCW的。

【在 g*****1 的大作中提到】
: 你说说吧,airplane和airport这种gun freezone + addditional guards + security
: measure这种方式,比单纯的CCW哪种更安全?
: 在飞机上起主要作用的是Marshals还是CCW?

p****t
发帖数: 292
43
the opposite of "a teacher needs to be armed" is NOT "a teacher must not be
armed"
Not every teacher wants to be a police officer. Fine. But if a teacher wants
to go through all the necessary trainings and be able to CCW, he should be
able to and even encouraged to do so.
g*****1
发帖数: 286
44
as i said, gun freezone + metal detector + security guards is more effective
than CCW. That has been proved by the airport/airplane practices.
I agree there should be some teacher who can be qualifiered and effective
for the dual role of a teacher and a security guard. But it is very rare.
CCW only cannot solve the security problem of schools. That the that officer
's argument.

be
wants
be

【在 p****t 的大作中提到】
: the opposite of "a teacher needs to be armed" is NOT "a teacher must not be
: armed"
: Not every teacher wants to be a police officer. Fine. But if a teacher wants
: to go through all the necessary trainings and be able to CCW, he should be
: able to and even encouraged to do so.

p****t
发帖数: 292
45
Well, assign an armed, well-trained body guard to every student is even
safer. Why don't you do that? Is it because of money?

effective
officer

【在 g*****1 的大作中提到】
: as i said, gun freezone + metal detector + security guards is more effective
: than CCW. That has been proved by the airport/airplane practices.
: I agree there should be some teacher who can be qualifiered and effective
: for the dual role of a teacher and a security guard. But it is very rare.
: CCW only cannot solve the security problem of schools. That the that officer
: 's argument.
:
: be
: wants
: be

C********r
发帖数: 114
46
Then why it happened in Sandy Hook with all the means in presence?

effective
officer

【在 g*****1 的大作中提到】
: as i said, gun freezone + metal detector + security guards is more effective
: than CCW. That has been proved by the airport/airplane practices.
: I agree there should be some teacher who can be qualifiered and effective
: for the dual role of a teacher and a security guard. But it is very rare.
: CCW only cannot solve the security problem of schools. That the that officer
: 's argument.
:
: be
: wants
: be

g*****1
发帖数: 286
47
Yeah, as I said, and some others in this board said, we need tax each gun in
this country.
For example, there are 200 million guns in usa. If we require for each gun,
you need to pay $200 annually, we will have $40 billion a year. Then we can
use this money to install metal detector and hire security guards for each
school.
That will be good enough. After all, you do not have a body guard for each
passenger in the airplane, right?
And this is fair, because each gun poses a danger to the society, in that it
has the possiblility of being stolen by your troubled sons or friends. You
pose more danger, you paid more tax. Fair and square.
More guns means responsibility. You buy a gun, you pay more tax to strenthen
the security of schools.

【在 p****t 的大作中提到】
: Well, assign an armed, well-trained body guard to every student is even
: safer. Why don't you do that? Is it because of money?
:
: effective
: officer

H*******g
发帖数: 6997
48
GUN FREE ZONE MEANS NO GUN, MEANS NO SECURITY GUARD...你Y怎么就这么喜欢自相
矛盾呢。。。

effective
officer

【在 g*****1 的大作中提到】
: as i said, gun freezone + metal detector + security guards is more effective
: than CCW. That has been proved by the airport/airplane practices.
: I agree there should be some teacher who can be qualifiered and effective
: for the dual role of a teacher and a security guard. But it is very rare.
: CCW only cannot solve the security problem of schools. That the that officer
: 's argument.
:
: be
: wants
: be

H*******g
发帖数: 6997
49
又想当然了。这笔钱肯定全拿去养黑人和劳模了。孩子依然危险。

in
,
can
it
You

【在 g*****1 的大作中提到】
: Yeah, as I said, and some others in this board said, we need tax each gun in
: this country.
: For example, there are 200 million guns in usa. If we require for each gun,
: you need to pay $200 annually, we will have $40 billion a year. Then we can
: use this money to install metal detector and hire security guards for each
: school.
: That will be good enough. After all, you do not have a body guard for each
: passenger in the airplane, right?
: And this is fair, because each gun poses a danger to the society, in that it
: has the possiblility of being stolen by your troubled sons or friends. You

g*****1
发帖数: 286
50
我想大多数人都知道我想表达的意思.你要想胡搅蛮缠的话,请随意.恕不奉陪

【在 H*******g 的大作中提到】
: GUN FREE ZONE MEANS NO GUN, MEANS NO SECURITY GUARD...你Y怎么就这么喜欢自相
: 矛盾呢。。。
:
: effective
: officer

相关主题
说Good Guys with Guns的可以歇了:More Guns = More Killing捞钱快,烧钱更快:教主的财政危机
底特律警察局长:枪威慑、阻止了犯罪罗纳德-里根总统:欧洲自由的象征
看一下关于Gun Free Zone的一些事实吧联邦政府的避孕药规定被指侵犯宗教自由
进入USANews版参与讨论
H*******g
发帖数: 6997
51
哈哈,我说你真的很可爱啊。被人问住了,就说不奉陪了。我咋应该觉得应该让版主把
你禁言了呢?你就是在谋杀华人的孩子。

【在 g*****1 的大作中提到】
: 我想大多数人都知道我想表达的意思.你要想胡搅蛮缠的话,请随意.恕不奉陪
H*******g
发帖数: 6997
52
那我再用你的理论问问你,大多数人?SOURCE呢?数据拿来的?你COOK的吧?

【在 g*****1 的大作中提到】
: 我想大多数人都知道我想表达的意思.你要想胡搅蛮缠的话,请随意.恕不奉陪
g*****1
发帖数: 286
53
R u sure you live in the united states of america, where there is balance
and check by constitution?

【在 H*******g 的大作中提到】
: 又想当然了。这笔钱肯定全拿去养黑人和劳模了。孩子依然危险。
:
: in
: ,
: can
: it
: You

p****t
发帖数: 292
54
why not tax each gun 1 million a year then we can have world peace and get
rid of global warming.
jeez, you don't just open your mouth and start taxing ppl.

in
,
can
it
You

【在 g*****1 的大作中提到】
: Yeah, as I said, and some others in this board said, we need tax each gun in
: this country.
: For example, there are 200 million guns in usa. If we require for each gun,
: you need to pay $200 annually, we will have $40 billion a year. Then we can
: use this money to install metal detector and hire security guards for each
: school.
: That will be good enough. After all, you do not have a body guard for each
: passenger in the airplane, right?
: And this is fair, because each gun poses a danger to the society, in that it
: has the possiblility of being stolen by your troubled sons or friends. You

g*****1
发帖数: 286
55
Carrying a gun means more responsibility to the society, because your gun
can be stolen and be used for masscre like sandy hook. Or even worse, some
gunowers may get mad after experients some personal setback, and become a
mass murderer.
More guns, more responsibility, which means you make more contributions to
the safety of the public spaces.
Fair and square.

【在 p****t 的大作中提到】
: why not tax each gun 1 million a year then we can have world peace and get
: rid of global warming.
: jeez, you don't just open your mouth and start taxing ppl.
:
: in
: ,
: can
: it
: You

b****r
发帖数: 1395
56

这种非此即彼造就了双方无法达成共识,无法解决问题,双方都无法客观的看问题,因
为都在忙着给对方扣大帽子。

【在 C********r 的大作中提到】
: 连这篇对话的记录者都在此处,用这种记录方式暗示读者,这个警察在此段话中撒谎。
: 还被楼主这样的拿出来做自己的argument。你说不是爱信撒谎是什么?
: 在枪支问题要么都是大帽子,要么都不是大帽子,在于你怎么看。因为这条路一旦走上
: 就没有回头路。

b****r
发帖数: 1395
57
但这样仍然不解决那些学校里没有一个想CCW的老师,这样一来又是回到起点上。

be
wants
be

【在 p****t 的大作中提到】
: the opposite of "a teacher needs to be armed" is NOT "a teacher must not be
: armed"
: Not every teacher wants to be a police officer. Fine. But if a teacher wants
: to go through all the necessary trainings and be able to CCW, he should be
: able to and even encouraged to do so.

b****r
发帖数: 1395
58
我倒是觉得这是一个解决方法,多管齐下,对于这个gun free zone可以修改法律不包含
允许带枪的security guard,或是干脆用这笔钱去招校警。

【在 H*******g 的大作中提到】
: GUN FREE ZONE MEANS NO GUN, MEANS NO SECURITY GUARD...你Y怎么就这么喜欢自相
: 矛盾呢。。。
:
: effective
: officer

g*****1
发帖数: 286
59
shake hands

包含

【在 b****r 的大作中提到】
: 我倒是觉得这是一个解决方法,多管齐下,对于这个gun free zone可以修改法律不包含
: 允许带枪的security guard,或是干脆用这笔钱去招校警。

S********5
发帖数: 753
60
Totally. No one is asking all teachers to be armed. We're simply saying that
law-abidding teachers WHO WANTS TO BE ARMED should be allowed to legally
carry their guns in schools, given they have CCW permit already.

【在 t**x 的大作中提到】
: 没人建议教师都要配枪。
: 应该是通过极其严格审核的教师可以有权力在学校带小弹夹的手枪。

相关主题
Obamacare's Gross Costs Double to $1.76 Trillion, CBO Projects白宫半年前就知道健保网站有问题
Firms Miss Out on Jobs PushLV警察现在断定枪手有同谋了
德州女警下班后用配枪制服影院枪手 (转载)老川又对了一把
进入USANews版参与讨论
g*****1
发帖数: 286
61
如果一个学校里面没有一个教师愿意ccw,怎么办?

that

【在 S********5 的大作中提到】
: Totally. No one is asking all teachers to be armed. We're simply saying that
: law-abidding teachers WHO WANTS TO BE ARMED should be allowed to legally
: carry their guns in schools, given they have CCW permit already.

S********5
发帖数: 753
62
Right now, the killer knows that no one can stop him at school, and cop is
20 mins away. The school will be his kill zone for 20 mins.
If school is no longer a gun free zone, at least the killer know that there
may be guns in school that can stop him. He would think twice.
Let me give you an example:
Let's say that I-95 has a speed limit of 65, how fast will normal people
drive? Probably between 65 and 75, so that even if cop sees you he would not
give you a ticket.
Now imagine if I-95 is "cop-free zone", that cops are illegal on I-95. Now
tell me how fast do you think people would drive?

【在 g*****1 的大作中提到】
: 如果一个学校里面没有一个教师愿意ccw,怎么办?
:
: that

l****z
发帖数: 29846
63
hire一个就是了.你觉得会招不到?

【在 g*****1 的大作中提到】
: 如果一个学校里面没有一个教师愿意ccw,怎么办?
:
: that

l****z
发帖数: 29846
64
good example. I bet he is not going to answer.

there
not

【在 S********5 的大作中提到】
: Right now, the killer knows that no one can stop him at school, and cop is
: 20 mins away. The school will be his kill zone for 20 mins.
: If school is no longer a gun free zone, at least the killer know that there
: may be guns in school that can stop him. He would think twice.
: Let me give you an example:
: Let's say that I-95 has a speed limit of 65, how fast will normal people
: drive? Probably between 65 and 75, so that even if cop sees you he would not
: give you a ticket.
: Now imagine if I-95 is "cop-free zone", that cops are illegal on I-95. Now
: tell me how fast do you think people would drive?

H*******g
发帖数: 6997
65
如果是深蓝的学校,拒绝教师CCW,拒绝任何武装保安,然后拿整个学校的孩子的安危作
为禁枪的筹码,你觉得我们还有讨论的必要么?

【在 g*****1 的大作中提到】
: 如果一个学校里面没有一个教师愿意ccw,怎么办?
:
: that

g*****1
发帖数: 286
66
Let me give u an example.
The oregon mall shooting. We now know that that mall is not gun-free zone as
you guys claimed. Because apparently, at least one guy was carrying a gun
in that mall according to some report that you guys was bragging about the
effectiveness of ccw.
But that is not the point. The point is, that shooter knew the mall was NOT
gun free yet he still went there, killed and injured some.
So if a mad man is determined to die, do you think he cares about CCW? NO
WAY. He may spend more time to plan the attack. He may make an informed
guess on who will be carrying the gun, who will not. Because the majority of
the teachers in elementary schools are females. It is not difficult to find
someone who is highly unlikely to carry a gun and shoot the students in her
class. For a people as smart as Adam Lanza, that is not a problem.
Also, in schools, it is not realistic for a teacher to carry a gun wherever
she/he goes. He/She has to lock the gun somewhere. Again, for a smart guy
like Adam Lanza, he will definitely take into account on how fast the
teacher can get a gun.
I will not get into more detail on how useless CCW can be in a crowded
place like movie theaters, shopping malls, and schools.
And the NRA knows that, that is the exact reason they advocate hiring more
guards instead of using your logic.

there
not

【在 S********5 的大作中提到】
: Right now, the killer knows that no one can stop him at school, and cop is
: 20 mins away. The school will be his kill zone for 20 mins.
: If school is no longer a gun free zone, at least the killer know that there
: may be guns in school that can stop him. He would think twice.
: Let me give you an example:
: Let's say that I-95 has a speed limit of 65, how fast will normal people
: drive? Probably between 65 and 75, so that even if cop sees you he would not
: give you a ticket.
: Now imagine if I-95 is "cop-free zone", that cops are illegal on I-95. Now
: tell me how fast do you think people would drive?

g*****1
发帖数: 286
67
幻想CCW的问题在于用一个正常人的思维去揣度凶手的心理.
凶手要是正常人就不是凶手了.

as
NOT
of

【在 g*****1 的大作中提到】
: Let me give u an example.
: The oregon mall shooting. We now know that that mall is not gun-free zone as
: you guys claimed. Because apparently, at least one guy was carrying a gun
: in that mall according to some report that you guys was bragging about the
: effectiveness of ccw.
: But that is not the point. The point is, that shooter knew the mall was NOT
: gun free yet he still went there, killed and injured some.
: So if a mad man is determined to die, do you think he cares about CCW? NO
: WAY. He may spend more time to plan the attack. He may make an informed
: guess on who will be carrying the gun, who will not. Because the majority of

H*******g
发帖数: 6997
68
左派看问题的角度果然和别人不一样。
那个MALL里,如果没有CCW的人,你觉得会是怎么样的一个结果?你猜测下死伤更多人
的可能性大不大?

【在 g*****1 的大作中提到】
: 幻想CCW的问题在于用一个正常人的思维去揣度凶手的心理.
: 凶手要是正常人就不是凶手了.
:
: as
: NOT
: of

S********5
发帖数: 753
69
Gosh... where is your logic?
If your goal is to reduce the occurance of traffic accidents caused by
reckless driving on I-95, you put cops there. Will it absolutely stop all
lunatics from driving 100 MPH and ended up kill innocent people? Probably
not. So instead, should we just get all cops off the interstate?
Similarly, if your goal is to reduce the occurance of mass shooting, you
remove the gun-free zone so people can CCW. Will it absoltely stop all crazy
people from shooting? Probably not. So instead, you want to keep the gun-
free zone?

as
NOT
of

【在 g*****1 的大作中提到】
: Let me give u an example.
: The oregon mall shooting. We now know that that mall is not gun-free zone as
: you guys claimed. Because apparently, at least one guy was carrying a gun
: in that mall according to some report that you guys was bragging about the
: effectiveness of ccw.
: But that is not the point. The point is, that shooter knew the mall was NOT
: gun free yet he still went there, killed and injured some.
: So if a mad man is determined to die, do you think he cares about CCW? NO
: WAY. He may spend more time to plan the attack. He may make an informed
: guess on who will be carrying the gun, who will not. Because the majority of

g*****1
发帖数: 286
70
1. 幻想CCW的问题在于用一个正常人的思维去揣度凶手的心理. You never know how
people thinks if they are determined to kill and die. Thinking somehow he
can make some reasonable choice is laughable. If he can make reasonable
choice, he won't kill and die in the first place.
2. Same logic can be applied to support the complete gun ban. It won't
prevent all the crime, as you said, but it will prevent a majority of them.

crazy

【在 S********5 的大作中提到】
: Gosh... where is your logic?
: If your goal is to reduce the occurance of traffic accidents caused by
: reckless driving on I-95, you put cops there. Will it absolutely stop all
: lunatics from driving 100 MPH and ended up kill innocent people? Probably
: not. So instead, should we just get all cops off the interstate?
: Similarly, if your goal is to reduce the occurance of mass shooting, you
: remove the gun-free zone so people can CCW. Will it absoltely stop all crazy
: people from shooting? Probably not. So instead, you want to keep the gun-
: free zone?
:

相关主题
老川又对了一把疤蟆给了4亿美元给所谓的太阳能公司,然后这个公司变成了垃圾场
没有CCW的加州,左逼的报应装B被雷劈:德国又遭恐怖袭击
加州十余良民苦候警察4小时不至,终惨遭性虐 (转载)这个校园枪手是天使 - 该如何Spin啊
进入USANews版参与讨论
s*******n
发帖数: 12995
71
”Same logic can be applied to support the complete gun ban. It won't
prevent all the crime, as you said, but it will prevent a majority of them"
tell this to British and Australia people!

.

【在 g*****1 的大作中提到】
: 1. 幻想CCW的问题在于用一个正常人的思维去揣度凶手的心理. You never know how
: people thinks if they are determined to kill and die. Thinking somehow he
: can make some reasonable choice is laughable. If he can make reasonable
: choice, he won't kill and die in the first place.
: 2. Same logic can be applied to support the complete gun ban. It won't
: prevent all the crime, as you said, but it will prevent a majority of them.
:
: crazy

g*****1
发帖数: 286
72
Actually, there is no need to discuss the usefulness of CCW here. The NRA
has already given you their answer. They choose to put more armed guards on
school instead of CCW. That speaks for itself. They dont trust CCW
themselves.
I think the NRA is way SMARTER than you. So I am not gonna waste my precious
time here just to enlighten few of you who do not have the least capability
to do basic reasoning.
Take care and enjoy your guns!

them"

【在 s*******n 的大作中提到】
: ”Same logic can be applied to support the complete gun ban. It won't
: prevent all the crime, as you said, but it will prevent a majority of them"
: tell this to British and Australia people!
:
: .

s*******n
发帖数: 12995
73
打不过就跑,本来就是左棍的拿手好戏,哦,对了,高估了,左棍是不打就跑。
走好,不送!

on
precious
capability

【在 g*****1 的大作中提到】
: Actually, there is no need to discuss the usefulness of CCW here. The NRA
: has already given you their answer. They choose to put more armed guards on
: school instead of CCW. That speaks for itself. They dont trust CCW
: themselves.
: I think the NRA is way SMARTER than you. So I am not gonna waste my precious
: time here just to enlighten few of you who do not have the least capability
: to do basic reasoning.
: Take care and enjoy your guns!
:
: them"

S********5
发帖数: 753
74
I never said CCW is the solution. My point is that gun free zone with no
protection is the problem.
NRA did suggest armed guard, but giving all the school budget cut, how
realistic is the "school shield" solution is still to be see.

on
precious
capability

【在 g*****1 的大作中提到】
: Actually, there is no need to discuss the usefulness of CCW here. The NRA
: has already given you their answer. They choose to put more armed guards on
: school instead of CCW. That speaks for itself. They dont trust CCW
: themselves.
: I think the NRA is way SMARTER than you. So I am not gonna waste my precious
: time here just to enlighten few of you who do not have the least capability
: to do basic reasoning.
: Take care and enjoy your guns!
:
: them"

1 (共1页)
进入USANews版参与讨论
相关主题
Obamacare's Gross Costs Double to $1.76 Trillion, CBO Projects疤蟆给了4亿美元给所谓的太阳能公司,然后这个公司变成了垃圾场
Firms Miss Out on Jobs Push装B被雷劈:德国又遭恐怖袭击
德州女警下班后用配枪制服影院枪手 (转载)这个校园枪手是天使 - 该如何Spin啊
白宫半年前就知道健保网站有问题佛州gun owner 阻止了可能的公园集会大屠杀,有很多小孩!
LV警察现在断定枪手有同谋了AL州一个带枪的父亲在麦当劳阻止了带枪 抢劫!
老川又对了一把说Good Guys with Guns的可以歇了:More Guns = More Killing
没有CCW的加州,左逼的报应底特律警察局长:枪威慑、阻止了犯罪
加州十余良民苦候警察4小时不至,终惨遭性虐 (转载)看一下关于Gun Free Zone的一些事实吧
相关话题的讨论汇总
话题: he话题: gun话题: ccw话题: teacher话题: armed