n********n
发帖数: 8336 | 1 Isaiah 45:7 and Amos 3:6
(Isaiah 45:7, KJV) - "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace,
and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."
(Amos 3:6) - "Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be
afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?"
Is God really the one who created evil? To answer the question we must first
look at how the word for evil, "rah," is used in the Bible, examine the
context of the Isaiah 45:7 passage, and look at other passages on the same
subject.
First of all, the Hebrew word for evil, "rah," is used in many different
ways in the Bible. In the KJV Bible it occurs 663 times. 431 times it is
translated as "evil." The other 232 times it is translated as "wicked," "bad
," "hurt," "harm," "ill," "sorrow," "mischief," "displeased," "adversity," "
affliction," "trouble," "calamity," "grievous," "misery," and "trouble." So
we can see that the word does not require that it be translated as "evil."
This is why different Bibles translate this verse differently. It is
translated as "calamity" by the NASB and NKJV; "disaster" by the NIV; and "
woe" by the RSV.
Second, the context of the verse is speaking of natural phenomena.
"I am the Lord, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God. I will
gird you, though you have not known Me; 6That men may know from the rising
to the setting of the sun That there is no one besides Me. I am the Lord,
and there is no other, 7The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing
well-being and creating calamity; I am the Lord who does all these," (
Isaiah 45:5-7).
Notice that the context of the verse is dealing with who God is, that it is
God who speaks of natural phenomena (sun, light, dark), and it is God who is
able to cause "well-being" as well as "calamity." Contextually, this verse
is dealing with natural disasters and human comfort issues. It is not
speaking of moral evil; rather, it is dealing with calamity, distress, etc.
This is consistent with other scriptures. For example,
"And the Lord said to him, "Who has made man’s mouth? Or who makes him dumb
or deaf, or seeing or blind? Is it not I, the Lord?" (Exodus 4:11).
"Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall
there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?" (Amos 3:6).
Also, take note that Isaiah is presenting contrasts. He speaks of "light"
and "darkness," "well being" and "calamity." The word "well-being" in the
Hebrew is the word for 'peace,' "Shalome." So, in the context, we are
seeing two sets of opposites: Light and dark, peace and non-peace, or well
being and calamity. The "evil" that is spoken of is not ontological evil,
but the evil experienced by people in the form of calamity.
From the above two verses (Exodus 4:11; Amos 3:6) we can see that the Lord
is involved in calamity and problems in the earthly realm. Exodus 4:11 is
speaking of human frailty and Amos 3:6 is speaking of woes in a city. It is
not a moral evil that God brings, but calamity and distress upon people.
Of course, this raises other questions of why God would do such a thing,
which I won't cover here. But, we can trust that whatever God does is just
and is used for teaching, guiding, and disciplining His people.
Third, there are other verses that clearly show that God is pure and that He
cannot approve of evil.
“The Rock! His work is perfect, For all His ways are just; a God of
faithfulness and without injustice, righteous and upright is He," (Deut. 32:
4).
"Thine eyes are too pure to approve evil, and Thou canst not look on
wickedness with favor," (Hab. 1:13).
We can see that the Bible teaches that God is pure and does not approve of
evil, that the word "rah" (evil) in Hebrew can mean many things, and that
contextually the verse is speaking of calamity and distress. Therefore, God
does not create evil in the moral sense, but in the sense of disaster or
calamity. | n********n
发帖数: 8336 | 2 Bible Study Tools
http://www.biblestudytools.com/isaiah/45-7-compare.html
Compare Translations for Isaiah 45:7
Compare Translations
Isaiah 45:7 ASV
American Standard Version
I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am
Jehovah, that doeth all these things.
Isaiah 45:7 BBE
Bible in Basic English
I am the giver of light and the maker of the dark; causing blessing, and
sending troubles; I am the Lord, who does all these things.
Isaiah 45:7 CEB
Common English Bible
I form light and create darkness, make prosperity and create doom; I am the
LORD, who does all these things.
Isaiah 45:7 CJB
Complete Jewish Bible
I form light, I create darkness; I make well-being, I create woe; I, ADONAI,
do all these things.
Isaiah 45:7 RHE
Douay-Rheims
I form the light, and create darkness, I make peace, and create evil: I the
Lord that do all these things.
Isaiah 45:7 ESV
English Standard Version
I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I
am the LORD, who does all these things.
Isaiah 45:7 GW
GOD'S WORD Translation
I make light and create darkness. I make blessings and create disasters. I,
the LORD, do all these things.
Isaiah 45:7 GNT
Good News Translation
I create both light and darkness; I bring both blessing and disaster. I, the
Lord, do all these things.
Isaiah 45:7 HNV
Hebrew Names Version
I form the light, and create darkness; I make shalom, and create evil. I am
the LORD, who does all these things.
Isaiah 45:7 CSB
Holman Christian Standard
I form light and create darkness, I make success and create disaster; I, the
Lord, do all these things.
Isaiah 45:7 KJV
King James Version
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the
LORD do all these things.
Isaiah 45:7 LEB
Lexham English Bible
[I] form light and [I] create darkness; [I] make peace and [I] create evil;
I [am] Yahweh; [I] do all these [things].
Isaiah 45:7 NAS
New American Standard
The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating
calamity ; I am the LORD who does all these.
Isaiah 45:7 NCV
New Century Version
I made the light and the darkness. I bring peace, and I cause troubles. I,
the Lord, do all these things.
Isaiah 45:7 NIRV
New International Reader's Version
I cause light to shine. I also create darkness. I bring good times. I also
create hard times. I do all of those things. I am the Lord.
Isaiah 45:7 NIV
New International Version
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster
; I, the LORD, do all these things.
Isaiah 45:7 NKJV
New King James Version
I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I,
the Lord, do all these things.'
Isaiah 45:7 NLT
New Living Translation
I am the one who creates the light and makes the darkness. I am the one who
sends good times and bad times. I, the LORD, am the one who does these
things.
Isaiah 45:7 NRS
New Revised Standard
I form light and create darkness, I make weal and create woe; I the Lord do
all these things.
Isaiah 45:7 RSV
Revised Standard Version
I form light and create darkness, I make weal and create woe, I am the LORD,
who do all these things.
Isaiah 45:7 DBY
The Darby Translation
forming the light and creating darkness, making peace and creating evil: I,
Jehovah, do all these things.
Isaiah 45:7 MSG
The Message
I form light and create darkness, I make harmonies and create discords. I,
God, do all these things.
Isaiah 45:7 WBT
The Webster Bible
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the
LORD do all these [things].
Isaiah 45:7 TMB
Third Millennium Bible
I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I, the
LORD, do all these things.
Isaiah 45:7 TNIV
Today's New International Version
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster
; I, the LORD, do all these things.
Isaiah 45:7 WEB
World English Bible
I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am
Yahweh, who does all these things.
Isaiah 45:7 WYC
Wycliffe
forming light, and making darknesses, making peace, and forming evil; I am
the Lord, doing all these things.
Isaiah 45:7 YLT
Young's Literal Translation
Forming light, and preparing darkness, Making peace, and preparing evil, I [
am] Jehovah, doing all these things.' | q**********2
发帖数: 585 | 3 你是说“圣经”翻译错了？
你家“全知全能”的主子能不能保证“圣经”的纪录/传播/翻译不出错误？ | n********n
发帖数: 8336 | 4 过年了，你比以往更兴奋啊！
居然攻击了伊斯兰教，犹太教，基督教，摩门教，天主教共同信仰的经典和神。
【在 q**********2 的大作中提到】
: 你是说“圣经”翻译错了？
: 你家“全知全能”的主子能不能保证“圣经”的纪录/传播/翻译不出错误？
| q**********2
发帖数: 585 | 5
不要东拉西扯。请回答问题：
你是说“圣经”翻译错了？
你家“全知全能”的主子能不能保证“圣经”的纪录/传播/翻译不出错误？
【在 n********n 的大作中提到】
: 过年了，你比以往更兴奋啊！
: 居然攻击了伊斯兰教，犹太教，基督教，摩门教，天主教共同信仰的经典和神。
| E*****m
发帖数: 25615 | 6
有規定不能這樣嗎？
【在 n********n 的大作中提到】
: 过年了，你比以往更兴奋啊！
: 居然攻击了伊斯兰教，犹太教，基督教，摩门教，天主教共同信仰的经典和神。
| n********n
发帖数: 8336 | 7 那要看怎么反了，歧视侮辱可以吗，
【在 E*****m 的大作中提到】
:
: 有規定不能這樣嗎？
| n********n
发帖数: 8336 | | o***1
发帖数: 592 | 9 The problem of evil has vexed Christian theologians for nearly two millennia
, burdening them with the impossible task of explaining how so much evil and
suffering could exist in a cosmos overseen by an omnipotent, omniscient,
and perfectly good deity. A wide variety of answers have been proposed to
this problem, all of which are as imaginative as they are insufficient. But
all this scholarly ink need not have been spilled: the Bible itself tells
Jews and Christians exactly where evil comes from.
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the
Lord do all these things.
—Isaiah 45:7
There you have it, folks – straight, as it were, from the horse’s mouth.
Evil exists because God created it. All you theologians can pack it in and
go home now.
Of course, the story does not end there. The translators of many modern
Bible editions, aware of the unsettling implications this verse holds for
their faith, have attempted to soften the blow by translating it in a more
palatable way. The New International Version, for example, has this passage
say that God creates “disaster”, while the English Standard Version has it
as “calamity”, and the Revised Standard Version says “woe”. The Message
translation creatively renders this verse as “I make harmonies and create
discords”.
Although these alternate translations wouldn’t seem to solve much, they are
still not as faithful to the original Hebrew than the KJV’s unflinching
translation. The Hebrew word translated by the KJV writers as “evil” in
Isaiah 45:7 is “ra“, and from textual evidence, it is clear that in the
Bible this word does mean evil in a moral sense. Here are some of the other
contexts in which it is used:
■ In Genesis 2:17, God instructs Adam and Eve not to eat from “the tree
of good and ra“. The tree of good and disaster? The tree of good and
calamity? Clearly not: it is the tree of good and evil.
■ In Genesis 6:5, God resolves to destroy humankind in the great flood
because “the wickedness (ra) of man was great in the earth”.
■ In Genesis 13:13, the men of Sodom were “wicked (ra) and sinners before
the Lord exceedingly”.
■ In Deuteronomy 1:35, a furious God threatens the Israelites, “Surely
there shall not one of these men of this evil (ra) generation see that good
land, which I sware to give unto your fathers.”
■ In Judges 2:11, “the children of Israel did evil (ra) in the sight of
the Lord, and served Baalim”.
■ In 1 Kings 16:30, the wicked king Ahab (husband of the infamous Jezebel)
“did evil (ra) in the sight of the Lord above all that were before him”.
These and many other references make it clear that the primary meaning of ra
is indeed evil in the sense of wickedness or sin. For believers who hold to
the textual inerrancy of the Bible, therefore, there is no choice but to
admit that God created evil. And in a way, this makes a great deal of sense.
If an all-powerful, all-knowing god created everything, what other
explanation for evil could there be, other than that he caused it?
Even the Bible’s theology bears this out. The text offers numerous
occasions where God could have intervened to turn events to good and chose
not to. He could, for example, have obliterated Satan and the rebel angels
entirely, or at the very least confined them to Hell and not allowed them to
escape, so that they could never have escaped to lead humanity into
temptation. And God’s behavior in the whole Eden affair, in any case,
smacks strongly of either extreme incompetence or deliberate malice – not
least, his choice to transmit the curse of original sin to all subsequent
generations rather than letting every human start off with a morally clean
slate.
Less-literalist believers might say that the imputation of evil to God is
just textual corruption in the Bible, the product of fallible humans and not
a divine revelation. And while this explanation might help the cause of
theodicy, it can only do so at the cost of hugely undermining the Bible
itself. After all, if God would allow as basic and fundamental a distortion
of his nature as this, for what reason should we believe that the Bible
reflects any of his words? If the biography of some great human being
contained a distortion as blatantly slanderous as this, by attributing to
that person an attitude that is totally contrary to all they believed and
stood for, would it be wise or prudent to simply disregard that passage and
then continue to trust the rest of the book as accurate?
The attribution of evil to God’s handiwork, while it may solve the problem
of theodicy, raises an even more difficult question for Jews and Christians
in its place. Namely, why would such a deity be worthy of our belief? Why
would any believer want to worship a god who accepts responsibility for evil
and suffering? Because he’s the most powerful and will punish people who
don’t do what he says? But what assurance would we have that the afterlife
is not also a place of torment and sorrow, even for the good?
This is a nightmare of a dilemma for anyone to have to face. Fortunately,
there is another way out: the door that opens onto atheism. It is in our
power to cast aside these bleak and malevolent fantasies, and to recognize
that the specters that menace us are illusions of our own imagination. They
have no more reality or substance than shadows, and are just as easily
dispelled by the light.
For those who wish to cease the futile obsession with the words of ancient
texts and face reality as it truly is, the gate is open and the path is
clear. There are no gods, no devils or angels, no heaven or hell. There is
only us, human beings, living together in the natural world. Once we
recognize this, the next step – a lifelong step – is to forsake fantasy,
treat others with kindness and make the most of the one life we are
fortunate to have.
first
【在 n********n 的大作中提到】
: Isaiah 45:7 and Amos 3:6
: (Isaiah 45:7, KJV) - "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace,
: and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."
: (Amos 3:6) - "Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be
: afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?"
: Is God really the one who created evil? To answer the question we must first
: look at how the word for evil, "rah," is used in the Bible, examine the
: context of the Isaiah 45:7 passage, and look at other passages on the same
: subject.
: First of all, the Hebrew word for evil, "rah," is used in many different
| n********n
发帖数: 8336 | 10 哈哈，怎么说的都有啊。信不信由你，不勉强。
统观圣经，有无数经文说上帝是良善的，见下文。
仅仅通过一句话来否认神的良善，用自己的脑子好好想想。
古以色列人崇拜的是良善的神呢？还是崇拜邪恶的神呢？
1. 旧约 - 尼希米记: 第 9 章
20 你也赐下你良善的灵教训他们，未尝不赐吗哪使他们糊口，并赐水解他们的渴。
2. 旧约 - 诗篇: 第 25 章
8 耶和华是良善正直的。所以他必指示罪人走正路。
3. 旧约 - 诗篇: 第 38 章
20 以恶报善的与我作对，因我是追求良善。
4. 旧约 - 诗篇: 第 86 章
5 主阿，你本为良善，乐意饶恕人，有丰盛的慈爱，赐给凡求告你的人。
10. 新约 - 马太福音: 第 19 章
17 耶稣对他说，你为什么以善事问我呢？只有一位是善的，（有古卷作你为什么称我
是良善的，除了神以外，没有一个良善的）你若要进入永生，就当遵守诫命。
14. 新约 - 马可福音: 第 10 章
18 耶稣对他说，你为什么称我是良善的。除了神一位之外，再没有良善的。
16. 新约 - 路加福音: 第 18 章
19 耶稣对他说，你为什么称我是良善的，除了神一位之外，再没有良善的。
millennia
and
But
the
【在 o***1 的大作中提到】
: The problem of evil has vexed Christian theologians for nearly two millennia
: , burdening them with the impossible task of explaining how so much evil and
: suffering could exist in a cosmos overseen by an omnipotent, omniscient,
: and perfectly good deity. A wide variety of answers have been proposed to
: this problem, all of which are as imaginative as they are insufficient. But
: all this scholarly ink need not have been spilled: the Bible itself tells
: Jews and Christians exactly where evil comes from.
: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the
: Lord do all these things.
: —Isaiah 45:7
| | | n********n
发帖数: 8336 | 11 4. 旧约 - 利未记: 第 11 章
44 我是耶和华你们的神，所以你们要成为圣洁，因为我是圣洁的。你们也不可在地上
的爬物污秽自己。
5. 旧约 - 利未记: 第 11 章
45 我是把你们从埃及地领出来的耶和华，要作你们的神，所以你们要圣洁，因为我是
圣洁的。
6. 旧约 - 利未记: 第 19 章
2 你晓谕以色列全会众说，你们要圣洁，因为我耶和华你们的神是圣洁的。
18. 旧约 - 约书亚记: 第 24 章
19 约书亚对百姓说，你们不能事奉耶和华。因为他是圣洁的神，是忌邪的神，必不赦
免你们的过犯罪恶。
19. 旧约 - 撒母耳记上: 第 6 章
20 伯示麦人说，谁能在耶和华这圣洁的神面前侍立呢？这约柜可以从我们这里送到谁
那里去呢？ | o***1
发帖数: 592 | 12 本来就不奇怪， 圣经里什么话都有， 彼此矛盾， 所以才产生了如此多的教派。这本
身就是一种恶。 神的无能， 由此可见一斑。
【在 n********n 的大作中提到】
: 4. 旧约 - 利未记: 第 11 章
: 44 我是耶和华你们的神，所以你们要成为圣洁，因为我是圣洁的。你们也不可在地上
: 的爬物污秽自己。
: 5. 旧约 - 利未记: 第 11 章
: 45 我是把你们从埃及地领出来的耶和华，要作你们的神，所以你们要圣洁，因为我是
: 圣洁的。
: 6. 旧约 - 利未记: 第 19 章
: 2 你晓谕以色列全会众说，你们要圣洁，因为我耶和华你们的神是圣洁的。
: 18. 旧约 - 约书亚记: 第 24 章
: 19 约书亚对百姓说，你们不能事奉耶和华。因为他是圣洁的神，是忌邪的神，必不赦
| n********n
发帖数: 8336 | 13 奇怪的是你只看到了一句话，就在胡言乱语了。
【在 o***1 的大作中提到】
: 本来就不奇怪， 圣经里什么话都有， 彼此矛盾， 所以才产生了如此多的教派。这本
: 身就是一种恶。 神的无能， 由此可见一斑。
| o***1
发帖数: 592 | 14 一句话也是神的语言。 可见你们这些自封的信徒根本没有把神当回事， 只是打着神的
旗号自立为神。
【在 n********n 的大作中提到】
: 奇怪的是你只看到了一句话，就在胡言乱语了。
| n********n
发帖数: 8336 | 15 那句话你没看解释吗，与整体一致。
你不信，那没办法。
【在 o***1 的大作中提到】
: 一句话也是神的语言。 可见你们这些自封的信徒根本没有把神当回事， 只是打着神的
: 旗号自立为神。
| o***1
发帖数: 592 | 16 那你没看我的反驳吗？
你的解释毫无道理。不是圣经无误吗？ 不是神启吗？ 怎么会出现翻译错误？ 这里错
了， 谁能保证其他地方没错？照你的解释， 正本圣经， 都是胡说八道了！
【在 n********n 的大作中提到】
: 那句话你没看解释吗，与整体一致。
: 你不信，那没办法。
| b*****n
发帖数: 4976 | 17
===================================================
即使翻译不错误
也会有你这种乱解乱读的错误
【在 o***1 的大作中提到】
: 那你没看我的反驳吗？
: 你的解释毫无道理。不是圣经无误吗？ 不是神启吗？ 怎么会出现翻译错误？ 这里错
: 了， 谁能保证其他地方没错？照你的解释， 正本圣经， 都是胡说八道了！
| t*******r
发帖数: 2940 | 18 同学，相信biblical inerrancy的基督徒很少，不过是一种小众观点而已，你对着大多
数相信biblical infallibility的基督徒喊有什么意思。你不知道其中差别先Google一
下。
【在 o***1 的大作中提到】
: 那你没看我的反驳吗？
: 你的解释毫无道理。不是圣经无误吗？ 不是神启吗？ 怎么会出现翻译错误？ 这里错
: 了， 谁能保证其他地方没错？照你的解释， 正本圣经， 都是胡说八道了！
| b*****n
发帖数: 4976 | 19
这里错: 了， 谁能保证其他地方没错？照你的解释， 正本圣经， 都是胡说八道了！
======================================================
我还未见到这版有何反基能真真正正地举出经文的错处,
十居之九九九九九九九九九,都是不学无术的解错而已
【在 o***1 的大作中提到】
: 那你没看我的反驳吗？
: 你的解释毫无道理。不是圣经无误吗？ 不是神启吗？ 怎么会出现翻译错误？ 这里错
: 了， 谁能保证其他地方没错？照你的解释， 正本圣经， 都是胡说八道了！
| o***1
发帖数: 592 | 20 何以见得你的解经就不是乱解乱读？ 你是神吗？
【在 b*****n 的大作中提到】
:
: 这里错: 了， 谁能保证其他地方没错？照你的解释， 正本圣经， 都是胡说八道了！
: ======================================================
: 我还未见到这版有何反基能真真正正地举出经文的错处,
: 十居之九九九九九九九九九,都是不学无术的解错而已
| | | o***1
发帖数: 592 | 21 这倒是。 没必要对牛弹琴。谢啦！
【在 t*******r 的大作中提到】
: 同学，相信biblical inerrancy的基督徒很少，不过是一种小众观点而已，你对着大多
: 数相信biblical infallibility的基督徒喊有什么意思。你不知道其中差别先Google一
: 下。
| b*****n
发帖数: 4976 | 22
================================================
你都尚未有琴, 更无谱
【在 o***1 的大作中提到】
: 这倒是。 没必要对牛弹琴。谢啦！
| o***1
发帖数: 592 | 23 至少你承认是牛啦？
【在 b*****n 的大作中提到】
:
: ================================================
: 你都尚未有琴, 更无谱
| b*****n
发帖数: 4976 | 24
==================================================
我的发帖, 的确是很牛
【在 o***1 的大作中提到】
: 至少你承认是牛啦？
|
|
