J*******g
发帖数: 8775 | 1 我本身不反对别人有自己的信仰，包括无神论，等等。我把这个转过来是为了给这里的
反基看看，希望他们不要犯这些人提到的错误。
http://www.quora.com/Atheism/What-is-it-about-atheism-you-find-
很多很好的讨论。
The burden of proof crap.
Many atheists here on Quora say that they don't have the burden of proof
because they don't claim anything. They say atheism isn't monolithic and I
can't say "Atheists think..." because there are atheists who do not think
that way. Basically they're using a rhetorical trick so as to not be held
accountable for any of their thoughts or assertions.
Then many of them go ahead and say:
"Christians are delusional."
"The Christian God is evil."
"Jesus never rose from the dead."
"The supernatural doesn't exist."
"The bible is full of contradictions."
Those are all claims. But when called out on it, they go back to, "I'm an
atheist. I don't make claims." That's BS. Watch, someone will comment on
this answer and say, "that's not atheism, that's particular atheists". Which
is true. There are many atheists who do not do the above. But the general
position of "atheism" as "not making claims" encourages the abuse of burden
of proof by doing the things listed above. |
J*******g
发帖数: 8775 | 2 Nathan Ketsdever, lifelong theological questioner just like you. avid
theology, cultural, & philosophical thinker & reader.
New atheist authors (Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens, et al) and the people who
repeat their arguments (ad infinitum). My problem with these authors, their
followers, and their ideology mostly gets to 3 issues which spread from
those books:
Scientism. The worldview that science explains everything--that the
arts and philosophy don't matter. The Folly of Scientism (Alvin Platinga
the famous analytical philosopher has written about this fairly extensively
as well. Also, Ian Hutchison of MIT has recently written a book on the
topic of the problems with the worldview of scientism.)
Name calling. It poisons the civic discourse and open and honest debate
. Its anti-scholarly. It doesn't respect the dignity of the other side.
Its borderline anti-religious hate speech.
Repeated deployment of weak/bad arguments (even secular philosophers don
't believe and know are fallacious or otherwise discredited)
I would hope that in the future....hopefully these debates could improve...
both in their collegiality and informed by the limits of scientism.
Further Resources on Scientism:
Ian Hutchison of MIT on video on scientism (these range from 5 minutes
to much longer talks on the topic): ian hutchison and scientism
Os Guiness on Scientism & Worldview: Evolution and the Atheist Worldview
【在 J*******g 的大作中提到】
: 我本身不反对别人有自己的信仰，包括无神论，等等。我把这个转过来是为了给这里的
: 反基看看，希望他们不要犯这些人提到的错误。
: http://www.quora.com/Atheism/What-is-it-about-atheism-you-find-
: 很多很好的讨论。
: The burden of proof crap.
: Many atheists here on Quora say that they don't have the burden of proof
: because they don't claim anything. They say atheism isn't monolithic and I
: can't say "Atheists think..." because there are atheists who do not think
: that way. Basically they're using a rhetorical trick so as to not be held
: accountable for any of their thoughts or assertions.
|
J*******g
发帖数: 8775 | 3 (Originally answered here: Carlos J. Amezquita's answer to What do theists
hate the most about atheists?)
The science study, mainly of physics usually lead to atheism: that's fully
respectable, however, here in Quora there are very few physicist/scientists
and the majority of atheists are just layman waving the flag of science who
likes to use terms and concepts they don't even comprehend as way to appeal
an alleged "scientific authority" that doesn't exist because science and
faith belong to different spheres of human dimension.
I'm neither religious nor atheist but I'm disagree with comments of some
people who think they look "smarter" when assuming a skeptical attitude but
in fact is the opposite because try to assess from the scientific
perspective the religious experience of people denotes not only a narrow
mind but also ignorance about the scope and purpose of science. In words of
the psychiatrist Richard Kluft:
".. today genuine skepticism of the benign sort that looks evenly in all
directions and encourages the advancement of knowledge seems vanishingly
rare. Instead, we find a prevalence of pseudo-skepticism consisting of harsh
and invidious skepticism toward one's opponents' points of view and
observations, and egregious self-congratulatory confirmatory bias toward one
's own stances and findings misrepresented as the earnest and dispassionate
pursuit of clinical, scholarly, and scientific truth."
【在 J*******g 的大作中提到】
: 我本身不反对别人有自己的信仰，包括无神论，等等。我把这个转过来是为了给这里的
: 反基看看，希望他们不要犯这些人提到的错误。
: http://www.quora.com/Atheism/What-is-it-about-atheism-you-find-
: 很多很好的讨论。
: The burden of proof crap.
: Many atheists here on Quora say that they don't have the burden of proof
: because they don't claim anything. They say atheism isn't monolithic and I
: can't say "Atheists think..." because there are atheists who do not think
: that way. Basically they're using a rhetorical trick so as to not be held
: accountable for any of their thoughts or assertions.
|
J*******g
发帖数: 8775 | 4 反基该好好看看。
【在 J*******g 的大作中提到】
: 我本身不反对别人有自己的信仰，包括无神论，等等。我把这个转过来是为了给这里的
: 反基看看，希望他们不要犯这些人提到的错误。
: http://www.quora.com/Atheism/What-is-it-about-atheism-you-find-
: 很多很好的讨论。
: The burden of proof crap.
: Many atheists here on Quora say that they don't have the burden of proof
: because they don't claim anything. They say atheism isn't monolithic and I
: can't say "Atheists think..." because there are atheists who do not think
: that way. Basically they're using a rhetorical trick so as to not be held
: accountable for any of their thoughts or assertions.
|
D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 5 谁宣称谁证明，这是常识啊大婶。基督徒的宣称比无神论的宣称更扯，所以更像编的，
还不让说了？
Which
burden
【在 J*******g 的大作中提到】
: 我本身不反对别人有自己的信仰，包括无神论，等等。我把这个转过来是为了给这里的
: 反基看看，希望他们不要犯这些人提到的错误。
: http://www.quora.com/Atheism/What-is-it-about-atheism-you-find-
: 很多很好的讨论。
: The burden of proof crap.
: Many atheists here on Quora say that they don't have the burden of proof
: because they don't claim anything. They say atheism isn't monolithic and I
: can't say "Atheists think..." because there are atheists who do not think
: that way. Basically they're using a rhetorical trick so as to not be held
: accountable for any of their thoughts or assertions.
|
J*******g
发帖数: 8775 | 6 问题是无神论的人所反的不是基督徒理解的圣经，而是自己理解的圣经。
【在 D*****r 的大作中提到】
: 谁宣称谁证明，这是常识啊大婶。基督徒的宣称比无神论的宣称更扯，所以更像编的，
: 还不让说了？
:
: Which
: burden
|
J*******g
发帖数: 8775 | 7 1
Mark Wm. Dodd, Autodidact, Polymath, Poet, laboring away in the trades to
support my expensive habits.
Not all atheists were created equal. Some are quite respectful of the
rights of others to believe what they will, and are appreciative, of the
long history, and value of theological thought.
The atheists who fob off opinion as fact, and denigrate, any form of
spirituality, whose arguments degenerate into sarcasm, and ad hominem
attacks, are the most unpalatable boors. There self congratulatory ego-
centrism, abhors, and appalls me, and their lack of originality bores me.
It is unfortunate one can not enjoy a good pint at a pub with out running
into one of these loud mouthed schnooks. I don't know if they are a test
from God, or a scourge from Satan. I really wish they would study up on what
they don't understand, and perhaps they wouldn't be so ignorant, and a more
meaningful discussion could take place.
God bless 'em though they make me glad and proud to be a Christian, and
therefore a theist.
【在 J*******g 的大作中提到】
: 我本身不反对别人有自己的信仰，包括无神论，等等。我把这个转过来是为了给这里的
: 反基看看，希望他们不要犯这些人提到的错误。
: http://www.quora.com/Atheism/What-is-it-about-atheism-you-find-
: 很多很好的讨论。
: The burden of proof crap.
: Many atheists here on Quora say that they don't have the burden of proof
: because they don't claim anything. They say atheism isn't monolithic and I
: can't say "Atheists think..." because there are atheists who do not think
: that way. Basically they're using a rhetorical trick so as to not be held
: accountable for any of their thoughts or assertions.
|
E*****m
发帖数: 25615 | 8
你也可以說基督徒相信的聖經是基督徒自己理解的聖經，不是聖經本意。
【在 J*******g 的大作中提到】
: 问题是无神论的人所反的不是基督徒理解的圣经，而是自己理解的圣经。
|
J*******g
发帖数: 8775 | 9 圣经新约是基督徒写的。而且这种对圣经的理解是从耶稣的门徒传承下来的。
【在 E*****m 的大作中提到】
:
: 你也可以說基督徒相信的聖經是基督徒自己理解的聖經，不是聖經本意。
|
E*****m
发帖数: 25615 | 10
是天主教寫的。 至於理解， 你沒讀過基督教歷史就別亂說了。
【在 J*******g 的大作中提到】
: 圣经新约是基督徒写的。而且这种对圣经的理解是从耶稣的门徒传承下来的。
|
J*******g
发帖数: 8775 | 11 我们在谈基督徒的事，天主教和新教属于基督教。你把天主教拿出来又能说明什么呢？
新教不是天主教分出来的么？
也许你读的基督教历史不是这样的么？
【在 E*****m 的大作中提到】
:
: 是天主教寫的。 至於理解， 你沒讀過基督教歷史就別亂說了。
|
B**T
发帖数: 294 | 12 有趣的是天主教写了圣经，然后新教剽窃了去，反过来批评天主教
【在 J*******g 的大作中提到】
: 我们在谈基督徒的事，天主教和新教属于基督教。你把天主教拿出来又能说明什么呢？
: 新教不是天主教分出来的么？
: 也许你读的基督教历史不是这样的么？
|
J*******g
发帖数: 8775 | 13 我们在谈基督徒的事，天主教和新教属于基督教。新教不是天主教分出来的么？
这种说法是没有道理的，新教从天主教中分出来，因为当时的天主教混乱，教义陈腐。
现在新教也不怎么批评天主教了。
【在 B**T 的大作中提到】
: 有趣的是天主教写了圣经，然后新教剽窃了去，反过来批评天主教
|
