g******s
发帖数: 211 | 1 Yesterday afternoon I played a few hours in local casino. The 1/2NL buy-in
range is $40~100. So there were quite a few "short stackers". The table
was very passive. People likes limp in to see flops. When they raise pre-
flop, usually means quite strong a hand. Only one Asian young gun is "action
seeker". He likes to get in many hands and stir up action with a raise.
Here is a hand the hero collided with the young gun:
The young gun (stack 90) in MP raised to 8. All fold to cutoff (short
stacker 28), he shove. Button and SB fold. The hero was at big blind (stack 120)and wake-up with QQ. Given the situation, what's the best pre-flop move:
call or shove? | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 2 either is one to me, call might be slightly better.
if he's indeed an action player, his $8 could be anything, if you shove on
top, he's gone 95% times i guess, so the question is, what do you want?
in
action
stack 120)and wake-up with QQ. Given the situation, what's the best pre-
flop move:
【在 g******s 的大作中提到】
: Yesterday afternoon I played a few hours in local casino. The 1/2NL buy-in
: range is $40~100. So there were quite a few "short stackers". The table
: was very passive. People likes limp in to see flops. When they raise pre-
: flop, usually means quite strong a hand. Only one Asian young gun is "action
: seeker". He likes to get in many hands and stir up action with a raise.
: Here is a hand the hero collided with the young gun:
: The young gun (stack 90) in MP raised to 8. All fold to cutoff (short
: stacker 28), he shove. Button and SB fold. The hero was at big blind (stack 120)and wake-up with QQ. Given the situation, what's the best pre-flop move:
: call or shove?
| g******s
发帖数: 211 | 3 it seems better off shove in the first place? In general, QQ should be
played fast in a shallow stack, particularly oop. right?
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: either is one to me, call might be slightly better.
: if he's indeed an action player, his $8 could be anything, if you shove on
: top, he's gone 95% times i guess, so the question is, what do you want?
:
: in
: action
: stack 120)and wake-up with QQ. Given the situation, what's the best pre-
: flop move:
| c******q
发帖数: 456 | 4 I prefer calling here as well.
Position doesn't really matter here. If MP calls, the remaining stack is $62
vs pot size of $85. All-in is probably the only move to the hero on the
flop.
Comparing the two scenarios that calling pf allin and calling flop allin, I
think the second case has higher probability. Hence allin on the flop is
more profitable.
★ Sent from iPhone App: iReader Mitbbs Lite 7.39 | g******s
发帖数: 211 | 5 If flop has no A or K (50~55%), it is easy to lead out or shove. But it
probably will get called only when villain hit strong (two pairs or above).
If flop has A or K (45~ 50 %), it is hard for hero to lead out and commit. I
mean, it is harder to commit than pre-flop.
QQ is such a borderline hand, hehe.
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 6 not actually.
you're talking about the worst situation for your QQ hand (villain calls
with Ax or Kx preflop, and hits exactly Axx or Kxx flop).
in fact, there're quite some other possibilties too:
1) Ax hits Kxx, Kx hits Axx, totally miss;
2) x hits a middle pair or even top pair, like AT hits Txx and pays you off;
3) hands like 99/TT may pay you off too, either re-shoves preflop (take your
call as weak) or on low flop;
4) for aggressive players, they may even reshove you preflop with hands like
A9s right here;
5) for loose passive players, they might even lay down A4/A5 alike on Axx
flop. sounds weird, right? but it happens too in low stake;
6) you have 1/8 chance to hit a monster set;
7) they always have bluffing range;
8) others, we'll not know until the flop.
don't be scared by flatting QQ here, short stack is done after he shoves,
all you need to know is whether QQ (very nice hand) can make you more $$$
from another losse action player.
.
I
【在 g******s 的大作中提到】
: If flop has no A or K (50~55%), it is easy to lead out or shove. But it
: probably will get called only when villain hit strong (two pairs or above).
: If flop has A or K (45~ 50 %), it is hard for hero to lead out and commit. I
: mean, it is harder to commit than pre-flop.
: QQ is such a borderline hand, hehe.
:
| g******s
发帖数: 211 | 7 True. Flat call actually hide strength of the hand.
For this particular hand, scenario #3 happened. After hero flat call,
villain re-shoved his 99.
off;
your
like
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: not actually.
: you're talking about the worst situation for your QQ hand (villain calls
: with Ax or Kx preflop, and hits exactly Axx or Kxx flop).
: in fact, there're quite some other possibilties too:
: 1) Ax hits Kxx, Kx hits Axx, totally miss;
: 2) x hits a middle pair or even top pair, like AT hits Txx and pays you off;
: 3) hands like 99/TT may pay you off too, either re-shoves preflop (take your
: call as weak) or on low flop;
: 4) for aggressive players, they may even reshove you preflop with hands like
: A9s right here;
| d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 8 my2c, qq with < 60bb(if you are tag) or < 100bb (if you are lag) effective
stack, and no extra tells, especially against multiple players. Try to
invite as many players to commit as u can.
So i prefer call here.
another CORRECTION, the probability of AK hitting flop tptk is only around
30%. So the probability of ax/kx hand hitting top pair on flop is much lower
. means you are in huge favor if the ax/kx hand is invited into the pot.
the probability of AK hitting top pair on whole 5 cards board is around 50%.
So no reason to worry here.
In other words, cold call 3bet or call after strong call with ax/kx hand and hope to hit flop is a huge leak. | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 9 more than a huge leak, haha, since even when you hit, you may still lose
every chip to AA/KK, QQ/JJ set, etc.
lower
%.
and hope to hit flop is a huge leak.
【在 d*****0 的大作中提到】
: my2c, qq with < 60bb(if you are tag) or < 100bb (if you are lag) effective
: stack, and no extra tells, especially against multiple players. Try to
: invite as many players to commit as u can.
: So i prefer call here.
: another CORRECTION, the probability of AK hitting flop tptk is only around
: 30%. So the probability of ax/kx hand hitting top pair on flop is much lower
: . means you are in huge favor if the ax/kx hand is invited into the pot.
: the probability of AK hitting top pair on whole 5 cards board is around 50%.
: So no reason to worry here.
: In other words, cold call 3bet or call after strong call with ax/kx hand and hope to hit flop is a huge leak.
| g******s
发帖数: 211 | 10 There are 8 cards of As or Ks out of 50 (exclude those 2 cards hero hold).
8x3/50 ~ 50%
lower
%.
【在 d*****0 的大作中提到】
: my2c, qq with < 60bb(if you are tag) or < 100bb (if you are lag) effective
: stack, and no extra tells, especially against multiple players. Try to
: invite as many players to commit as u can.
: So i prefer call here.
: another CORRECTION, the probability of AK hitting flop tptk is only around
: 30%. So the probability of ax/kx hand hitting top pair on flop is much lower
: . means you are in huge favor if the ax/kx hand is invited into the pot.
: the probability of AK hitting top pair on whole 5 cards board is around 50%.
: So no reason to worry here.
: In other words, cold call 3bet or call after strong call with ax/kx hand and hope to hit flop is a huge leak.
| | | s*******o
发帖数: 4896 | 11 纠正一下，其实只有6张。。。你得扣掉villian手上2张
【在 g******s 的大作中提到】
: There are 8 cards of As or Ks out of 50 (exclude those 2 cards hero hold).
: 8x3/50 ~ 50%
:
: lower
: %.
| g******s
发帖数: 211 | 12 兄弟，不能给他那么高的CREDIT. 那样的话赶紧缴枪算了 :)
姑且就算是他拿了一个， 还有7个(OUT OF 48): 7x3/48 ~ 44%.
【在 s*******o 的大作中提到】
: 纠正一下，其实只有6张。。。你得扣掉villian手上2张
| d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 13 lets say heads up. you hold qq
if villain holds
ak hand, only 3 ks and 3 aces in the deck, it is 6 out of 48
ax hand, only 3 aces in the deck, it is 3 out of 48
kx hand, same as ax | s*******o
发帖数: 4896 | 14 我想你们两个讲的不是一个问题
他的意思是假设对方手上没有任何A，K，flop出A，K概率有50%，这样你QQ会check/
fold
【在 d*****0 的大作中提到】
: lets say heads up. you hold qq
: if villain holds
: ak hand, only 3 ks and 3 aces in the deck, it is 6 out of 48
: ax hand, only 3 aces in the deck, it is 3 out of 48
: kx hand, same as ax
| g******s
发帖数: 211 | 15 mmm, the math does not hold...
Let's say hero flat called and the villain also flat called behind. The pot
is 78. The effective remaing stack is 60. Now flop is Axx OR Kxx,
1. what should hero do against this kind of player, check or bet?
2. if hero check, villain all-in, will the hero call?
【在 d*****0 的大作中提到】
: lets say heads up. you hold qq
: if villain holds
: ak hand, only 3 ks and 3 aces in the deck, it is 6 out of 48
: ax hand, only 3 aces in the deck, it is 3 out of 48
: kx hand, same as ax
| T*********k
发帖数: 1621 | 16 Maybe just a personal style thing, I will never ever "invite" players to the
pot when I have QQ oop. JJs maybe ok to play it like a drawing hand, but
not QQ+.
Couple reasons:
1. The less ppl in the pot, the higher opportunity you pair hold up.
2. You want to chase out AJ-A4, KQ-K4s, Loose goose player like to play A
rag or K rag, you DON'T WANT them in the pot. An A or K on the flop, and you
get action, for obvious reason, you simply have to give up.
3. You one pair hand is hard to improve on the flop, and you don't know
where you at and you are oop. If you invite too many ppl in the pot, you may
already beat on a harmless board like 5,7, 2 and you don't even know it.
4. Slowing play and give out free cards to ppl who shouldn't be there is not
only a leak, it is No. 1 sin in poker.
However, in this case, it probably doesn't matter much because everyone's stack
is so shallow. | d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 17 got it.
basically i would commit no matter what cards drop on flop for very high %.
My reason is,
1 villain hit with ak, i am way behind, someone said it was a preflop
coinflip, but i say once an over card drop on flop, we should re-evaluate.
2 villain hit with ax/kx, i would be happy to pay him off, and hope he does
same thing in future.
3 villain missed but bluff, i have huge favor
4 the % of condition 1 is much less than 2 and 3.
So basically i will push flop if i am out of position most of the time.
of course it still depends on villain's style/history. say if villain is a
NIT. i would check/fold without hesitation. | d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 18 hehe, AK bro. I did mean short stack situation.
otherwise, we do need to protect our QQ by 3betting.
the
you
may
【在 T*********k 的大作中提到】
: Maybe just a personal style thing, I will never ever "invite" players to the
: pot when I have QQ oop. JJs maybe ok to play it like a drawing hand, but
: not QQ+.
: Couple reasons:
: 1. The less ppl in the pot, the higher opportunity you pair hold up.
: 2. You want to chase out AJ-A4, KQ-K4s, Loose goose player like to play A
: rag or K rag, you DON'T WANT them in the pot. An A or K on the flop, and you
: get action, for obvious reason, you simply have to give up.
: 3. You one pair hand is hard to improve on the flop, and you don't know
: where you at and you are oop. If you invite too many ppl in the pot, you may
| s*******o
发帖数: 4896 | 19 原始情况是有人3bet了，QQ怎么办
这个我觉得很难讲的，很多时候我觉得是border line要看3bet的人的数据
如果是normal 3bet数据，我会4bet/call。我觉得cold 4bet的range应该
和early position遇见3bet以后4bet range相当，我认为是(QQ+,AK)
这里的前提是100bb stack，6max table并且只有one raiser，one 3better的情况
其他squeeze的话变化更多了，因为很多人squeeze range会紧点，要重新看
【在 d*****0 的大作中提到】
: hehe, AK bro. I did mean short stack situation.
: otherwise, we do need to protect our QQ by 3betting.
:
: the
: you
: may
| g******s
发帖数: 211 | 20 Any style can work out sometimes - that's the fun part of poker :)
【在 s*******o 的大作中提到】
: 原始情况是有人3bet了，QQ怎么办
: 这个我觉得很难讲的，很多时候我觉得是border line要看3bet的人的数据
: 如果是normal 3bet数据，我会4bet/call。我觉得cold 4bet的range应该
: 和early position遇见3bet以后4bet range相当，我认为是(QQ+,AK)
: 这里的前提是100bb stack，6max table并且只有one raiser，one 3better的情况
: 其他squeeze的话变化更多了，因为很多人squeeze range会紧点，要重新看
| d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 21 bobo兄 你以前一直在玩merge的25NL 6max，来说说这个player pool preflop 3bet/
4bet/5bet风格。
我打了一阵了，为什么我老觉得everyone is conservative on preflop reraise。
some loose guys always got punished by 4bet light being caught or fold to
5bet shove，再后来，所有人都不4bet light了，反而很多是flat 3bet。还是说这是
我的打法的原因，让我看不到他们的实际range。
请指教 |
|
