B*********s
发帖数: 4158 | 1 应该在turn re-raise allin的，又没注意已经pot-commit了，不过这SB也实在是个cal
ling station吧
Full Tilt Poker Game #25065548281: Table Apollo - $0.10/$0.25 - No Limit Hol
d'em
Seat 1: BenHen ($19.75)
Seat 2: bairdc2 ($25.50)
Seat 3: musaooo ($9.91)
Seat 4: glassfire1 ($25.09)
Seat 5: Hero ($27.66)
Seat 6: Saleya ($32.39)
Seat 7: VitalyB ($11.46)
Seat 8: moscowpooker ($10)
Seat 9: kiat1984 ($9.75)
glassfire1 posts the small blind of $0.10
Hero posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Ks Ac]
Saleya folds
VitalyB folds
moscowpooker folds
kiat1984 folds
BenHen folds
bairdc2 folds
musaooo raises to $0.75
glassfire1 calls $0.65
Hero has 15 seconds left to act
Hero raises to $2.70
musaooo folds
glassfire1 calls $1.95
*** FLOP *** [Qc 8s 3h]
glassfire1 checks
Hero has 15 seconds left to act
Hero bets $3.25
glassfire1 calls $3.25
*** TURN *** [Qc 8s 3h] [7s]
glassfire1 bets $4.32
Hero has 15 seconds left to act
Hero raises to $12
glassfire1 has 15 seconds left to act
glassfire1 calls $7.68
*** RIVER *** [Qc 8s 3h 7s] [7d]
glassfire1 bets $7.14, and is all in
Hero calls $7.14 | B*********s
发帖数: 4158 | 2 *** SHOW DOWN ***
glassfire1 shows [8d Tc] two pair, Eights and Sevens
Hero mucks
glassfire1 wins the pot ($48.39) with two pair, Eights and Sevens
cal
Hol
【在 B*********s 的大作中提到】
: 应该在turn re-raise allin的，又没注意已经pot-commit了，不过这SB也实在是个cal
: ling station吧
: Full Tilt Poker Game #25065548281: Table Apollo - $0.10/$0.25 - No Limit Hol
: d'em
: Seat 1: BenHen ($19.75)
: Seat 2: bairdc2 ($25.50)
: Seat 3: musaooo ($9.91)
: Seat 4: glassfire1 ($25.09)
: Seat 5: Hero ($27.66)
: Seat 6: Saleya ($32.39)
| c****1
发帖数: 457 | 3 I think you overplayed AK a bit. I understand that many including myself
sometimes pay too much attention to our hole cards. if we are dealt AA KK,
AK, then at every betting street, in our mind we always whisper to ourself
we are holding the best hand and have to win this hand.However,some players
just dont believe it no matter how your continuation bets represent the
strength of your hands. We have to find a way to deal with that. Sometimes
we may have to put a break on the continuation bet.
cal
Hol
【在 B*********s 的大作中提到】
: 应该在turn re-raise allin的，又没注意已经pot-commit了，不过这SB也实在是个cal
: ling station吧
: Full Tilt Poker Game #25065548281: Table Apollo - $0.10/$0.25 - No Limit Hol
: d'em
: Seat 1: BenHen ($19.75)
: Seat 2: bairdc2 ($25.50)
: Seat 3: musaooo ($9.91)
: Seat 4: glassfire1 ($25.09)
: Seat 5: Hero ($27.66)
: Seat 6: Saleya ($32.39)
| D*****A
发帖数: 551 | 4 问题是在Rush里，我们对手的资料不够。如果也没有笔记的话，那就很难判断，什么时
候该扔掉KK,AA,or AK. | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 5 get HM, will save you a ton, hehe.
a play with 30/15 and another one with 12/5, totally different stories, and
with your own notes, wow, everything is so clear.
【在 D*****A 的大作中提到】
: 问题是在Rush里，我们对手的资料不够。如果也没有笔记的话，那就很难判断，什么时
: 候该扔掉KK,AA,or AK.
| c****1
发帖数: 457 | 6 what does 30/15 mean?
what if a good player know how to adapt his play? he play different styles
during different sessions?
and
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: get HM, will save you a ton, hehe.
: a play with 30/15 and another one with 12/5, totally different stories, and
: with your own notes, wow, everything is so clear.
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 7 Turn raise size is too big which leaves you very little option on river. It
also makes your opponents feel more commited to call river. As played I think you should just fold river. Because you have 0% of chance winning here after your turn raise. Save the 7$ at least.
P.S. to win in poker over long run is not to win every single pot you are
involved in. Sometimes, it is ok to lay down a losing hand. My most
successful sessions usually consist of making good lay downs instead of
making big bluffs. | s*********k
发帖数: 1989 | 8 allin on turn does not help. He is not fold two pairs.
You can TP or OP. He beat you either way. | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 9 that's exactly why you should get HM, listen, if you don't have it, get it
TODAY. the best $50 you'll invest on your poker. yes, i repeat, the BEST.
30 means his preflop % of hands, 30 is pretty high and puts him on the
looser side, 15 is his raising %, so here he raises almost half of his hands
(15/30).
yes, ppl adapt to some degree, but overall, stats don't lie. over 1000 hands
, few would play AA this way and all of a sudden 88 the same way. ppl tend
to make repeated/similar decisions over time.
【在 c****1 的大作中提到】
: what does 30/15 mean?
: what if a good player know how to adapt his play? he play different styles
: during different sessions?
:
: and
| s*********k
发帖数: 1989 | 10 hehe, I have HM and Never use it.
Need go digger it out. Change the # layout, and confused self. | | | B*********s
发帖数: 4158 | 11 he does NOT have two pairs, he does NOT even have top pair......唉。。。
【在 s*********k 的大作中提到】
: allin on turn does not help. He is not fold two pairs.
: You can TP or OP. He beat you either way.
| f*f
发帖数: 121 | 12 I think the most important thing you did wrong was not think about river
when you made that raise on the turn, given stack size, if you want to float
his turn bet (which I think it's a good idea because his turn donk range
usually is a weak pair, but he will often donk/call because his weak pair
could easily also have some gutshot draw), you should just call, then when
he checks river, you can shove. By calling the turn, you actually still
keep all strong hands in your range as you can easily be calling QQ+ here
trying to extract more money from him.
Here is a very old article I wrote years ago.. It will probably help you if
you read through it.
===============
打牌要多往前看
下棋的时候高手走一步棋，都要往前想几步棋，打牌也是一样。 有时多想一下不光正
在面对的决定，而且将来要面对的决定会让你的ｗｉｎｒａｔｅ 大大的提高。随便举
几个例子：
例子１：
６人桌， ｎｌ１００， 你在ｂｔｎ 上 ＱＱ， 大家都ｆｏｌｄ， 你ｒａｉｓ
ｅ 到 ４， ｓｂ ｆｏｌｄ， ｂｂ ｃａｌｌ．
ｆｌｏｐ： A J 6
BB bet 6, 你怎么办？
如果对手是个打的很凶的人，你知道你call的话，他不管有牌没牌都喜欢不停的bet。
这里有很多人会call, 但如果这个人真的是很疯狂，他turn 还会继续的bet, river 也
可能接着bet. 除非你打算一直call 他到river， 这里其实上应该fold 或 raise.
可很多人不去想这些，只想着flop怎么办，call玩了以后. turn 对方又bet, 这下bet
size 比较大了，只好fold掉。 相对于某些对手，他几乎100%的时候会在turn继续
bet, 你call flop, fold turn根本就是在送钱。如果在flop的时候你想了一下turn回
出现的情况，你可能就不会犯这个错误了。
例子2：
６人桌， ｎｌ１００， 你在ｂｔｎ 上 45o， 大家都ｆｏｌｄ， 你ｒａｉｓ
ｅ 到 ４， ｓｂ ｆｏｌｄ， ｂｂ ｃａｌｌ．
你和bb有100块
flop: ２７Ｑ
ｂｂ ｂｅｔ ＄４， 你ｒａｉｓｅ 到 １４， ｂｂ ｃａｌｌ．
假设你对这个对手很了解，你知道他手上肯定是 ＱＪ／ＱＴ 这样的牌。
ｔｕｒｎ： A
bb check,
此时 ｐｏｔ ＝ ９ ＋ １４ ＋ １４ ＝ ３７
双方都还有８２在手上
此时有些人想要bluff, 就直接bet pot, 可是一般人对你有over card时的第一个bet总
是比较怀疑，他多半会call一次，然后你再bet一次他才相信你真的是有ace. 如果你认
为这个对手就是这样的想法， 你在bet turn的时候就要多想想river 的 stack size
和 pot size.
1) 你 bet 37, 他 call, river pot size = 37 + 37 + 37 = 111, 大家手上还剩 82
-37 = 45。 你 river allin, 他想着我只要赢20% 就够了， 虽然你多半有Ace, odds
太好了， call.
2) 你 bet 18, 他 call, river pot size = 37 + 18 + 18 = 73, 大家手上还剩 82-
18 = 64。 你 river allin， 他如果认为你有ace的机会比较大，几乎一定会fold.
在bet turn的时候多考虑一下river 的stack size 和 pot size可能会让这手牌的结果
完全两样。
这只是一些简单的例子，这样的情况时不停的出现的，每一个机会可能差别不是那么大
，但积少成多。大家打牌看牌谱都喜欢找一些最大的pot， 但有些大的pot其实你怎么
做都没关系，因为他们很少出现。 举两个明显的错误：
1） 我 flop 上 有个 同花顺， 对方bet, 我 fold. (同花顺当然不该fold, 但真的
fold也没什么，你大概20万手牌里才遇到一次这种情况）
2） 你手上34s, call raise, flop 333, 3个人看flop, 你觉得对方是对子或AK/AQ,
你该怎么办？ （说实话，你怎么办都无所谓，反正这种牌你几乎从来遇见不到） | h*******s
发帖数: 3932 | 13 turn-call then prepare to shove river indeed is a good idea.
float
if
【在 f*f 的大作中提到】
: I think the most important thing you did wrong was not think about river
: when you made that raise on the turn, given stack size, if you want to float
: his turn bet (which I think it's a good idea because his turn donk range
: usually is a weak pair, but he will often donk/call because his weak pair
: could easily also have some gutshot draw), you should just call, then when
: he checks river, you can shove. By calling the turn, you actually still
: keep all strong hands in your range as you can easily be calling QQ+ here
: trying to extract more money from him.
: Here is a very old article I wrote years ago.. It will probably help you if
: you read through it.
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 14 thanks for sharing!
yeah, i feel one of my leaks is with bet/stack size calculations (more
towards the next step/card). i'm getting better on this but far from solved
yet.
to me, playing poker is like learning how to drive. for beginners, they only
have focus/attention on when to step on brake and keeping going forward.
they're too nervous to check speed, road signs, other cars around, etc. when
they got good hands, they bet/raise before checking "road conditions", and
vice versa. poker is a game of incomplete information, but there's still
quite some info. available (which gets ignored when we're too focused on our
own cards/money/tilt) to help us make better decisions.
float
if
【在 f*f 的大作中提到】
: I think the most important thing you did wrong was not think about river
: when you made that raise on the turn, given stack size, if you want to float
: his turn bet (which I think it's a good idea because his turn donk range
: usually is a weak pair, but he will often donk/call because his weak pair
: could easily also have some gutshot draw), you should just call, then when
: he checks river, you can shove. By calling the turn, you actually still
: keep all strong hands in your range as you can easily be calling QQ+ here
: trying to extract more money from him.
: Here is a very old article I wrote years ago.. It will probably help you if
: you read through it.
| B*********s
发帖数: 4158 | 15 非常感谢，学了很多
float
if
【在 f*f 的大作中提到】
: I think the most important thing you did wrong was not think about river
: when you made that raise on the turn, given stack size, if you want to float
: his turn bet (which I think it's a good idea because his turn donk range
: usually is a weak pair, but he will often donk/call because his weak pair
: could easily also have some gutshot draw), you should just call, then when
: he checks river, you can shove. By calling the turn, you actually still
: keep all strong hands in your range as you can easily be calling QQ+ here
: trying to extract more money from him.
: Here is a very old article I wrote years ago.. It will probably help you if
: you read through it.
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 16 It is all about sizing even though I sometimes feel even the small stake
regulars do not pay enough attention to it. If you want to bluff someone,
you need to have enough stack left for a powerful river bluff. The turn over
-raise basicly left no bullets in your gun. Think ahead and think about
your sizing for all street when you put in first bet/raise. | s*********r
发帖数: 4210 | 17 I am not sure about this, however sometimes folding AK is necessary.
Personally, I do fold AK after missing flops. | c****1
发帖数: 457 | 18 I think fcf were talking about two key issues in general
1. always plan ahead
2. notice the chip left behind and design your betting size for the current
and future streets.
as for this particular hand, folding AK at some point may not be a bad idea.
【在 s*********r 的大作中提到】
: I am not sure about this, however sometimes folding AK is necessary.
: Personally, I do fold AK after missing flops.
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