p**h
发帖数: 737 | 1 cash head up game 和 比赛 都很不爽。
AA KK AK 都被人干掉。
一个600人的比赛在24位被人干掉。很沮丧。 |
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 2 俺是不喜欢玩HU的cash game，水平也不够，呵呵。
至于比赛，俺连续２天在千人的比赛进入钱圈后犯低级错误，需要记笔记总结。
前天，AQo at BB，还有15 BB，UTG全进（12BB）...她还是比较紧的，所以AQo非常之
marginal，而且15BB加上已经坐完BB，俺还是有足够空间和时间等牌的。结果button
smooth called... 俺脑筋一热，反倒轻松的做出了全进的选择。
结果UTG AQs，button AKo，非常之愚蠢。
昨天，还剩40人，一个新过来的小子非常彪悍，俺不得已raise fold了一次...他又连
续＂偷＂了几次，搞得俺非常不爽。
A9o, SB，还有12BB，这家伙button 2.5x，俺又一次只用了３秒就作出了全进的选择，
撞死在KK手上。
错误在于并没有观察该对手的range，仅仅凭前几手的粗浅了解，轻易的送命。后来看
了玩了半天，其实还是比较TAG的一个人，更令俺郁闷。
不要紧，不痛不长记性。
【在 p**h 的大作中提到】
: cash head up game 和 比赛 都很不爽。
: AA KK AK 都被人干掉。
: 一个600人的比赛在24位被人干掉。很沮丧。
|
p**h
发帖数: 737 | 3 昨天我24位被干掉后，看到你在比赛，拿了40位(800人)，也是很难。
我觉得比赛拿第一真是很不容易，运气也很重要，
在chip少的时候，AA KK all in 都被人干掉，没办法。
600，800人的比赛，能进前5%都已经历巨多的bad beat。
我觉得拿第一的大牛运气也是很好的。
还有一个比赛，一个人没chip了，all in, a 5, 我 a 8, 也没chip了，
all in,结果一鸟人 9 J call 我们，他拿了一个9，以一对9把我们干掉，无语。 |
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 4 这种死法是俺对自己比较不满意的，因为没有足够的认真考虑，类似的问题不是第一次。
这牌俺是可以完全轻松扔掉的，筹码足够坐两圈，选择更好的spot去战斗。而且在并不
是很了解对手的情况下，轻易全进，非常低级。
昨天整个过程到这里都是完美的，尽管有一次failed bluff，损失一些，但是不伤筋骨
，而且是有准备有计划的仗。牌来得也顺，无惊无险。这局牌完全有希望进入至少前20
的，这样的局面因为不小心，犯低级错误，非常值得总结。
俺如果stack够大（4x于你们两的），也很有可能call你们两，因为J9这牌表面上不好
看，其实威力不小：
1)不大会被比如AJ, A9, KJ这样的牌dominated，因为你们两很short，这样的牌已经属
于你们全进range里面很高的了；
2) 即使是更高的AK，AQ这样的，先不说概率更小，即使真是，因为牌不重复，所以也
有1:2的样子；
3)小对，coin flip，更值得；
4) J9有较好的straight机会；
5) 你们两互相抓死的机会很大，因为很多人最后都是等Ax全进，A碰A。
J9这牌俺要short，会主动全进，被人call了，比比如说A7
【在 p**h 的大作中提到】
: 昨天我24位被干掉后，看到你在比赛，拿了40位(800人)，也是很难。
: 我觉得比赛拿第一真是很不容易，运气也很重要，
: 在chip少的时候，AA KK all in 都被人干掉，没办法。
: 600，800人的比赛，能进前5%都已经历巨多的bad beat。
: 我觉得拿第一的大牛运气也是很好的。
: 还有一个比赛，一个人没chip了，all in, a 5, 我 a 8, 也没chip了，
: all in,结果一鸟人 9 J call 我们，他拿了一个9，以一对9把我们干掉，无语。
|
h******g
发帖数: 100 | 5 It reminded me a hand I played a while ago. Live tourney, 50ppl, 85 buy-in.
On the bubble time I was sitting on about 90K, 2 people all in with about
25K and 29K, I called with T8s. They had A5 and 77, I flopped a 8 and
knocked out both. They were so mad and they thought I made a terrible call.
But on my side, with my stack and odds, it is an easy call for me. |
s*********k
发帖数: 1989 | 6 Sigh. Same here.
I was in 70+4 for 200+16 seat(starting chip=300, BB=30, Turbo game).
I was at BB. The SB call all in (all the guys ahead folded). I had A6. the
guy had 73 (I know he tried to steal my BB). Flop 774, leave zero chance to
me. It is surely ugly. I was left with 30 (1BB) and soon kicked out. |
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 7 nowadays unless i'm the last 1 or 2 to act, i.e., button or cutoff in
unopened pot, or SB vs. BB, i don't shove with A6 much.
but yeah, super turbo games are different.
to
【在 s*********k 的大作中提到】
: Sigh. Same here.
: I was in 70+4 for 200+16 seat(starting chip=300, BB=30, Turbo game).
: I was at BB. The SB call all in (all the guys ahead folded). I had A6. the
: guy had 73 (I know he tried to steal my BB). Flop 774, leave zero chance to
: me. It is surely ugly. I was left with 30 (1BB) and soon kicked out.
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 8 It really depends on the blinds level that time. unless the blinds is 4k 8k
or something like that huge, they were right that it was a terrible,
terrible call. It just happened that they have 2 not so strong hand and you
won. But more than likely the guy who called have a fairly strong hand or
something >=pocket 10s. Calling of 1/4 of your stack with this is terrible.
What is the odds of you against over pair? Answer is simple, no odds. Fold
and find a better spot. You have better place to sq
【在 h******g 的大作中提到】
: It reminded me a hand I played a while ago. Live tourney, 50ppl, 85 buy-in.
: On the bubble time I was sitting on about 90K, 2 people all in with about
: 25K and 29K, I called with T8s. They had A5 and 77, I flopped a 8 and
: knocked out both. They were so mad and they thought I made a terrible call.
: But on my side, with my stack and odds, it is an easy call for me.
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 9 The other day, i saw a hand very interesting. fairly deep in the touney.
Some guy A is calling all in with all kinds of trash hand. a few knocked out
guy actually were screaming at him as observer and he has a huge stack. A
fairly well played guy B opened EP 3X raise. A reraised at button. B thought
for a while shoved all in (don't remember how many bb but he is not so
short). and A called with 9 6s. And B flip over pocket 5s. A hit a 9 and
won the pot.
My take on this hand. A is clearly a donk |
h******g
发帖数: 100 | 10 I guess I didn't mention the blinds. It was 3K/6K and I was the big blind
as well. Otherwise why you think they would shove with A5 or 77 if they
have about 15 to 20 big blinds??
8k
you
or
.
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: It really depends on the blinds level that time. unless the blinds is 4k 8k
: or something like that huge, they were right that it was a terrible,
: terrible call. It just happened that they have 2 not so strong hand and you
: won. But more than likely the guy who called have a fairly strong hand or
: something >=pocket 10s. Calling of 1/4 of your stack with this is terrible.
: What is the odds of you against over pair? Answer is simple, no odds. Fold
: and find a better spot. You have better place to sq
|
|
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 11 if i am not in the blind. i would still fold. |
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 12 Even if you are at blinds, a call is still marginal. You have to give the
caller some credit to have medium to strong holding. |
h******g
发帖数: 100 | 13 I have reads on them, the guy shove with A5 just shoved A2 and 66 a couple
of hands earlier. The guy call with 77 on the button was really hesitate to
make the call. If he had big A or big pair, he won't make that move. At
tha point, I am getting about 3 to 1 to make the call, besides, I can knock
out 2 players at the same time. I agree it might look like a marginal call,
but when playing a tournament, you have to take a chance once or twice to
be able to win, that's the one chance I took an
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: Even if you are at blinds, a call is still marginal. You have to give the
: caller some credit to have medium to strong holding.
|
h******g
发帖数: 100 | 14 Let's say blinds are 3K/6K and the button shove with 16K and you are sitting
on 80K, will you call with T8s from the big blind? I don't see much
difference between those two situations.
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: Even if you are at blinds, a call is still marginal. You have to give the
: caller some credit to have medium to strong holding.
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 15 Totally different case here here. Button shove for 16k. you already put in
6k. yes it is close to an instant call even with 27 o. I suspect button
have much strong holding anyway. In your case, it is 29k vs 6k and someone
shove EP and another jumped out called all in. They have stronger holding
than the button shove, and you have no odds to call here. If you are not big blind. it is an instant fold. Even if it is your blind, it is still a fold.
sitting
【在 h******g 的大作中提到】
: Let's say blinds are 3K/6K and the button shove with 16K and you are sitting
: on 80K, will you call with T8s from the big blind? I don't see much
: difference between those two situations.
|
h******g
发帖数: 100 | 16 Please read my post carefully, I am not up against one player, otherwise I
would fold. Odds for suited connected against one player or two players are
about the same. You want to talk about math, let's talk about math. Let's
say they are holding QQ and AK, what's percetage for T8s to win? 20%. How
about QQ and AA, 20% as well. I don't have the right odds to call here, but
it is very close. If you think there is a big difference in between 3 to 1
and 4 to 1, then I should fold, but is there
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: Totally different case here here. Button shove for 16k. you already put in
: 6k. yes it is close to an instant call even with 27 o. I suspect button
: have much strong holding anyway. In your case, it is 29k vs 6k and someone
: shove EP and another jumped out called all in. They have stronger holding
: than the button shove, and you have no odds to call here. If you are not big blind. it is an instant fold. Even if it is your blind, it is still a fold.
:
: sitting
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 17 This reminds me another hand I had. 90 person game with 5 left. I was chip
lead over some margins. UTG all in. I had KK, I reshoved all in utg+1 (
could have smooth called but i reshoved to avoid drama). button called with
9 7 s (all his stack). Both of them had close to 8 bb. Yes, button thought
he had the odds to call. I even forgot what UTG had but i remember 97s guy
hit a straight tripled up. He won in the end after beating me on HU (both
with top pair but he had better kicker which i coul |
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 18 10 8 s has 20% chance winning against AA and QQ? Hard to believe. I don't
have any oddds calculater with me.. But even it is, it is still a fold... Do
you think the 9 7 s guy made a great call in the example I gave? It is
really the same situation. |
h******g
发帖数: 100 | 19 Completely different situations from yours and mine:
Yours: UTG all-in, UTG+1 all-in over the top, button call with his whole
stack.
Mine: HJ all-in, button call all-in, big blind call 1/4 of his stack with 3
to 1 odd.
And you think they are the same.
with
guy
HU
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: This reminds me another hand I had. 90 person game with 5 left. I was chip
: lead over some margins. UTG all in. I had KK, I reshoved all in utg+1 (
: could have smooth called but i reshoved to avoid drama). button called with
: 9 7 s (all his stack). Both of them had close to 8 bb. Yes, button thought
: he had the odds to call. I even forgot what UTG had but i remember 97s guy
: hit a straight tripled up. He won in the end after beating me on HU (both
: with top pair but he had better kicker which i coul
|
h******g
发帖数: 100 | 20 there are tons of odds calculaters online, check it out yourself. I am not
surprised you don't know that anyway because you think the situation you
brought is the same as mine.
Do
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: 10 8 s has 20% chance winning against AA and QQ? Hard to believe. I don't
: have any oddds calculater with me.. But even it is, it is still a fold... Do
: you think the 9 7 s guy made a great call in the example I gave? It is
: really the same situation.
|
|
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 21 The only difference is you already have 6k in. It still does not give you the odds to call imo. 3/1 and 4/1
odds are fairly different in a long wrong.
That is also exactly the reason why I reshove over the top in my example.
Because some guy sitting in the bb holding 34s with 20bb would think he has
the odds to call and see the flop but the fact is that he has absolutely no odds
3
【在 h******g 的大作中提到】
: Completely different situations from yours and mine:
: Yours: UTG all-in, UTG+1 all-in over the top, button call with his whole
: stack.
: Mine: HJ all-in, button call all-in, big blind call 1/4 of his stack with 3
: to 1 odd.
: And you think they are the same.
:
: with
: guy
: HU
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 22 ok. calculated the odds. vs 1 over pair. 20.6%. vs 2 over pair 19.3%. we can
round it up to 20%. You have 6k in. you need to put in 4X more to call
29k all in and you need 33% to call a 3 way all in to break it even. Is
that a call? No. |
h******g
发帖数: 100 | 23 It is different in a long run in cash game, but not so in the tournament.
Also, I did say I was the big blind a couple of post earlier. You just wasn
't paying attention.
I really don't want to argue with you anymore but I do agree with you on
your situations, but for mine, I will make that call anytime with that stack
and odds. Also, live poker is different from online, stop judging cases
like mine from online point of view. You don't have that much reads on
people online which is my strengt
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: The only difference is you already have 6k in. It still does not give you the odds to call imo. 3/1 and 4/1
: odds are fairly different in a long wrong.
: That is also exactly the reason why I reshove over the top in my example.
: Because some guy sitting in the bb holding 34s with 20bb would think he has
: the odds to call and see the flop but the fact is that he has absolutely no odds
:
: 3
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 24 if the blinds is at 15k then it is a call. 6k, definitely no. You choose to
gamble that is fine and you did win. but the odds is not there to call. |
h******g
发帖数: 100 | 25 It is more that 33% to call against 77 and A5, I just brought up the worst
situation which you still have 20% chance to win. So based on your words,
you should fold KK because you could run into AA and you only have 20%
chance to win. You are so good at poker.
can
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: ok. calculated the odds. vs 1 over pair. 20.6%. vs 2 over pair 19.3%. we can
: round it up to 20%. You have 6k in. you need to put in 4X more to call
: 29k all in and you need 33% to call a 3 way all in to break it even. Is
: that a call? No.
|
h******g
发帖数: 100 | 26 I don't know how you come up with 33%, I put in 23K to win 63K (25K+29K+3K+
6K), so it should be around 26 to 27%. Very good odds for me.
can
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: ok. calculated the odds. vs 1 over pair. 20.6%. vs 2 over pair 19.3%. we can
: round it up to 20%. You have 6k in. you need to put in 4X more to call
: 29k all in and you need 33% to call a 3 way all in to break it even. Is
: that a call? No.
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 27 you are right between 26-27% odds to break even because of the dead money
out there.
10 8 s vs A 5 and 77 is the best case for you. you have 36% of chance
winning. I don't think this happens often(probably the lowest pushing range of them). vs 1 over pair you have 20%. 4
over cards, you have 26%. if someone is holding a pocket 10s, you have 16%
chance. I don't have time to list out all the possibilies. But more often than not as it is played, it is below the odds that you could break even. |
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 28 Here is another question to think about. ok lets say you have the odds to
break even vs 2 all in. You have the chip lead and you also know those two
guy have been pushing light all the time. Do you call to take the chances
right now hope to get out from even odds or do you fold the 6k bb and next
time you might catch them in a hand where you are 70% vs 30% favorate?
Anyone wants to comment?
This seems to be the same situation with the example I gave earlier with B holding pocket 5s vs donk wit |
h******g
发帖数: 100 | 29 I already said in earlier post and I am saying it again, I have reads on
them. Villian A push with A2 and 66 earlier while Villian B push with AK
confidently earlier (that I didn't mention, but he is a tight player). Now
you are having Villian A push at HJ, what is his range? Villian B call on
the button reluctantly, what is his range? I must be honest, if Villian B
call instantly, it will be a fold for me. But with what I observed, I
carefully calculated odds and made the call after all.
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: you are right between 26-27% odds to break even because of the dead money
: out there.
: 10 8 s vs A 5 and 77 is the best case for you. you have 36% of chance
: winning. I don't think this happens often(probably the lowest pushing range of them). vs 1 over pair you have 20%. 4
: over cards, you have 26%. if someone is holding a pocket 10s, you have 16%
: chance. I don't have time to list out all the possibilies. But more often than not as it is played, it is below the odds that you could break even.
|
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 30 很有意思的讨论，涉及各人风格，基本理论和具体牌局，不要斗嘴就好，呵呵。
还有一个没有提到的问题，如果这么做，假设也能同时干掉２人的最优情况下，对收益
的影响，尤其是在final table, money ladder变化很大，或者bubble time等等。旁观
者可能是最希望你帮他们这个忙的，情况比较复杂。
如果是前N名钱都是一样的情况，倒简单了，fold，不给其他人当枪使。
holding pocket 5s vs donk with 9 6 s. Why flip a coin when you know you can
come ahead big time in the next hand. You obviously are in no immediate
danger to get blind out. This is my view only though...
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: Here is another question to think about. ok lets say you have the odds to
: break even vs 2 all in. You have the chip lead and you also know those two
: guy have been pushing light all the time. Do you call to take the chances
: right now hope to get out from even odds or do you fold the 6k bb and next
: time you might catch them in a hand where you are 70% vs 30% favorate?
: Anyone wants to comment?
: This seems to be the same situation with the example I gave earlier with B holding pocket 5s vs donk wit
|
|
|
h******g
发帖数: 100 | 31 Completely different, he risked his tournament life, I didn't.
holding pocket 5s vs donk with 9 6 s. Why flip a coin when you know you can
come ahead big time in the next hand. You obviously are in no immediate
danger to get blind out. This is my view only though...
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: Here is another question to think about. ok lets say you have the odds to
: break even vs 2 all in. You have the chip lead and you also know those two
: guy have been pushing light all the time. Do you call to take the chances
: right now hope to get out from even odds or do you fold the 6k bb and next
: time you might catch them in a hand where you are 70% vs 30% favorate?
: Anyone wants to comment?
: This seems to be the same situation with the example I gave earlier with B holding pocket 5s vs donk wit
|
h******g
发帖数: 100 | 32 It was bubble time, I did take this into consideration as well, if I can
knock them out, we all in the money then the short stack can loose up and I
will be easily locking up top finishes. It turned out to be better than I
thought, hehe
can
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: 很有意思的讨论，涉及各人风格，基本理论和具体牌局，不要斗嘴就好，呵呵。
: 还有一个没有提到的问题，如果这么做，假设也能同时干掉２人的最优情况下，对收益
: 的影响，尤其是在final table, money ladder变化很大，或者bubble time等等。旁观
: 者可能是最希望你帮他们这个忙的，情况比较复杂。
: 如果是前N名钱都是一样的情况，倒简单了，fold，不给其他人当枪使。
:
: holding pocket 5s vs donk with 9 6 s. Why flip a coin when you know you can
: come ahead big time in the next hand. You obviously are in no immediate
: danger to get blind out. This is my view only though...
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 33 Here is something else to think about.
Do you loose up your calling range because you have the chip lead? odds wise
it is similar. pocket 5s probably have better odds here. I would not
especially when someone is pushing light often. Let him steal some blinds,
and when you catch a good hand, you clear him out in one shot going showdown
with >70% odds. Even though someone is pushing light with short stack, you
put him on A rag, that does not give you the odds to call him light with 10
9s. Becaus
【在 h******g 的大作中提到】
: Completely different, he risked his tournament life, I didn't.
:
: holding pocket 5s vs donk with 9 6 s. Why flip a coin when you know you can
: come ahead big time in the next hand. You obviously are in no immediate
: danger to get blind out. This is my view only though...
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 34 Did Daniel N call 3 way all 5X bb in with 3 5 o or better 10 8s and cracked
AA KK QQ?
I would be interested to know since he is one of my favorate player. (maybe
become "was" after you gave me an example)
I don't really care about big names or who wins a particular pot. Cata won
wsop, but i despise the way he played in the final table. Whether he is a
good player or he played great in other games isirrelevent.
Like a lot
of big name pros, they do those things all the time, how many time you saw
【在 h******g 的大作中提到】
: It was bubble time, I did take this into consideration as well, if I can
: knock them out, we all in the money then the short stack can loose up and I
: will be easily locking up top finishes. It turned out to be better than I
: thought, hehe
:
: can
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 35 what does fryking mean? by "旁观者可能是最希望你帮他们这个忙的".
when you call 3 way all in with 10 8s. you barely break even (sometimes way
behind). you don't have max or positive EV. Everyone else who are not in the
pot have the best EV for pay out.
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: 很有意思的讨论，涉及各人风格，基本理论和具体牌局，不要斗嘴就好，呵呵。
: 还有一个没有提到的问题，如果这么做，假设也能同时干掉２人的最优情况下，对收益
: 的影响，尤其是在final table, money ladder变化很大，或者bubble time等等。旁观
: 者可能是最希望你帮他们这个忙的，情况比较复杂。
: 如果是前N名钱都是一样的情况，倒简单了，fold，不给其他人当枪使。
:
: holding pocket 5s vs donk with 9 6 s. Why flip a coin when you know you can
: come ahead big time in the next hand. You obviously are in no immediate
: danger to get blind out. This is my view only though...
|
h******g
发帖数: 100 | 36 It seems like no matter what I say you just don't listen. My point is that
it could be a fold which would be fine but it isn't not a bad call either.
And you are trying to say you can catch them next time when you are 70%
favor, so what??!! If you are not 100% favor you can still lose, and it is
a tournament if you lose you are gone! I would be happy to go all in
against KK with my AA but if I am risking my tournament life at that point,
I won't be so pleased with my play overall. If you pl
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: Did Daniel N call 3 way all 5X bb in with 3 5 o or better 10 8s and cracked
: AA KK QQ?
: I would be interested to know since he is one of my favorate player. (maybe
: become "was" after you gave me an example)
: I don't really care about big names or who wins a particular pot. Cata won
: wsop, but i despise the way he played in the final table. Whether he is a
: good player or he played great in other games isirrelevent.
:
: Like a lot
: of big name pros, they do those things all the time, how many time you saw
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 37 就是还说有个鱼翁得利的问题，final table，你要是真干掉两，其他人可能啥也没干
，可能钱就多得了一倍。干掉一个，也是好的，而且你的chip lead受伤，增加了它们
手里chips的份量。
因为final table money ladder的极不均衡性，比如7, 8, 9名差异忽略不计，而第５
名和６名之间就比较可观，所以考虑这个也有一定意义。
way
the
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: what does fryking mean? by "旁观者可能是最希望你帮他们这个忙的".
: when you call 3 way all in with 10 8s. you barely break even (sometimes way
: behind). you don't have max or positive EV. Everyone else who are not in the
: pot have the best EV for pay out.
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h******g
发帖数: 100 | 38
wise
,
showdown
you
10
calls
.
I can definitely see that from your post, I did that all the time in the
early stage of my relatively young poker career. But now I will have to ask
myself a question first, if he is one of the chip leaders at that point,
why so? Some times could be luck, but most times because of his play. And
if that's the case, I will try to learn from him. Yes, I can be a big
underdog and double my opponent up twice for example, but if I have a big
stack, I can always come
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: Here is something else to think about.
: Do you loose up your calling range because you have the chip lead? odds wise
: it is similar. pocket 5s probably have better odds here. I would not
: especially when someone is pushing light often. Let him steal some blinds,
: and when you catch a good hand, you clear him out in one shot going showdown
: with >70% odds. Even though someone is pushing light with short stack, you
: put him on A rag, that does not give you the odds to call him light with 10
: 9s. Becaus
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h******g
发帖数: 100 | 39 恩，所以如果你的chip很多的话，你可以power play，也可以steal from position.尤
其在short hand的情况下chip多是很占优势的。就算输了那一hand，还是有足够的chip
to make plays。没有太大影响。我打live tournament就是为了拿第一，因为人一般
不多（大概30到60个），而且大多很tight，没有什么playmaker，所以steal很容易。
就算我输了那把，我很有信心很快打回来，所以call了。thoughts?
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: 就是还说有个鱼翁得利的问题，final table，你要是真干掉两，其他人可能啥也没干
: ，可能钱就多得了一倍。干掉一个，也是好的，而且你的chip lead受伤，增加了它们
: 手里chips的份量。
: 因为final table money ladder的极不均衡性，比如7, 8, 9名差异忽略不计，而第５
: 名和６名之间就比较可观，所以考虑这个也有一定意义。
:
: way
: the
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 40 First let me apologize if i came out a big blunt. i am a very straight
forward guy. So you don't need to get angry or start name calling. Let us
focus on the problem at hand instead of taking this personal and starting
calling each other names. I think you are contradicting yourself a bit here
. i am going to point them out but not trying pick a fight with you.
It seems like no matter what I say you just don't listen. My point is that
it could be a fold which would be fine but it isn't not
【在 h******g 的大作中提到】
: It seems like no matter what I say you just don't listen. My point is that
: it could be a fold which would be fine but it isn't not a bad call either.
: And you are trying to say you can catch them next time when you are 70%
: favor, so what??!! If you are not 100% favor you can still lose, and it is
: a tournament if you lose you are gone! I would be happy to go all in
: against KK with my AA but if I am risking my tournament life at that point,
: I won't be so pleased with my play overall. If you pl
|
|
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 41 If it is like you said in that tounament. Then you should fold more.
Does that happen often in a tnounament? player A. tight. folds to most of
raise preflop. you player B, agressive. Raising 2 out of 3 hands, stealing
blinds and accumulating chips like crazy and have chip lead.
case 1) you raise 3X bb CO 10 Js, bb tight guy A shove 12 bb. do you call?
case 2) utg or EP shove 5 bb, button thought for a while reshove all in 6bb.
you bb with chip lead with 10 8s. Do you call?
Both are fold.
1) yo
【在 h******g 的大作中提到】
: 恩，所以如果你的chip很多的话，你可以power play，也可以steal from position.尤
: 其在short hand的情况下chip多是很占优势的。就算输了那一hand，还是有足够的chip
: to make plays。没有太大影响。我打live tournament就是为了拿第一，因为人一般
: 不多（大概30到60个），而且大多很tight，没有什么playmaker，所以steal很容易。
: 就算我输了那把，我很有信心很快打回来，所以call了。thoughts?
|
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 42 哈哈，你们两的讨论都有俺同意的部分，剩下的只能说因时因人而异。
扑克的魅力在于信息的不确定性，和对对手range/状态的判断，比如你提到daniel的那
把牌，俺没有看过，不过相信daniel当时并没有把AA这样的牌的可能性看得大，也就是
说在range里面属于很高端的了，可以基本忽略不计，要看的是对于剩下95%的牌的机会
。multi-way就更复杂一些。
chip
【在 h******g 的大作中提到】
: 恩，所以如果你的chip很多的话，你可以power play，也可以steal from position.尤
: 其在short hand的情况下chip多是很占优势的。就算输了那一hand，还是有足够的chip
: to make plays。没有太大影响。我打live tournament就是为了拿第一，因为人一般
: 不多（大概30到60个），而且大多很tight，没有什么playmaker，所以steal很容易。
: 就算我输了那把，我很有信心很快打回来，所以call了。thoughts?
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 43 我那么累得灌水。。 发包子啊。。。。。。
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: 哈哈，你们两的讨论都有俺同意的部分，剩下的只能说因时因人而异。
: 扑克的魅力在于信息的不确定性，和对对手range/状态的判断，比如你提到daniel的那
: 把牌，俺没有看过，不过相信daniel当时并没有把AA这样的牌的可能性看得大，也就是
: 说在range里面属于很高端的了，可以基本忽略不计，要看的是对于剩下95%的牌的机会
: 。multi-way就更复杂一些。
:
: chip
|
h******g
发帖数: 100 | 44 You want to analyze? Let's analyze then
First let me apologize if i came out a big blunt. i am a very straight
forward guy. So you don't need to get angry or start name calling. Let us
focus on the problem at hand instead of taking this personal and starting
calling each other names. I think you are contradicting yourself a bit here
. i am going to point them out but not trying pick a fight with you.
It seems like no matter what I say you just don't listen. My point is that
it could be a f
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: First let me apologize if i came out a big blunt. i am a very straight
: forward guy. So you don't need to get angry or start name calling. Let us
: focus on the problem at hand instead of taking this personal and starting
: calling each other names. I think you are contradicting yourself a bit here
: . i am going to point them out but not trying pick a fight with you.
:
: It seems like no matter what I say you just don't listen. My point is that
: it could be a fold which would be fine but it isn't not
|
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 45 你们两大水车，哈哈。
不要争了，有点岔了，各自举的例子也有利于自己的观点，交流促进提高，这个讨论俺
已经标记合集。
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: 我那么累得灌水。。 发包子啊。。。。。。
|
h******g
发帖数: 100 | 46 Case 1, no argument, fold for sure.
Case 2, depends on the situation and my stack. If I have 25bb+ and sensing
both my cards are live, it is a call for me 50% of the time. It is NOT an
instant call like what you think I will do. If I have less than that, fold.
By the way, I don't need instructions in terms of maintaining chip lead, I
am very good at that.
6bb.
But
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: If it is like you said in that tounament. Then you should fold more.
: Does that happen often in a tnounament? player A. tight. folds to most of
: raise preflop. you player B, agressive. Raising 2 out of 3 hands, stealing
: blinds and accumulating chips like crazy and have chip lead.
: case 1) you raise 3X bb CO 10 Js, bb tight guy A shove 12 bb. do you call?
: case 2) utg or EP shove 5 bb, button thought for a while reshove all in 6bb.
: you bb with chip lead with 10 8s. Do you call?
: Both are fold.
: 1) yo
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 47 I don't know why. 不过我觉得你的回答很多牛头不对马嘴。 我都不知到说设么了。
lets agree to disagree 八。。。 不过你的议狗很大。。 这个没好处。。 |
h******g
发帖数: 100 | 48 我也要包子
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: 你们两大水车，哈哈。
: 不要争了，有点岔了，各自举的例子也有利于自己的观点，交流促进提高，这个讨论俺
: 已经标记合集。
|
h******g
发帖数: 100 | 49 So you are saying you don't have egos? LMAO
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: I don't know why. 不过我觉得你的回答很多牛头不对马嘴。 我都不知到说设么了。
: lets agree to disagree 八。。。 不过你的议狗很大。。 这个没好处。。
|
h*******s
发帖数: 3932 | 50 haha, 本来我也准备合集的，所以没有mark其中的文章，到时候mark合集。
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: 你们两大水车，哈哈。
: 不要争了，有点岔了，各自举的例子也有利于自己的观点，交流促进提高，这个讨论俺
: 已经标记合集。
|
|
|
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 51 有你，俺们从来不担心漏了，呵呵。
【在 h*******s 的大作中提到】
: haha, 本来我也准备合集的，所以没有mark其中的文章，到时候mark合集。
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 52 everyone has ego. but some let ego overrun their mind because it is too
big...
【在 h******g 的大作中提到】
: So you are saying you don't have egos? LMAO
|
h******g
发帖数: 100 | 53 exactly, I was just trying to argue that it is not a bad call which you
think it is. You are saying you will not make that call and that's the
reason it is a terrible call. Who got bigger ego?? At this point, I think
most people will be on my side and you just won't let it go. With all the
information I gave, do you still think as you quoted a "terrible terrible
call"? If so, please bring your complete logic.
too
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: everyone has ego. but some let ego overrun their mind because it is too
: big...
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 54 yes. absolutely terrible call... I already did many times to explain my logic..you choose to ignore my logic and it does not mean my logic is not there.. |
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 55 俺给你们总结一下吧，两个不同风格的选手。
如果你们两个从开始到最终都一致同意，那么建议你们不要玩，只能是赌场赚钱，呵呵。
think
【在 h******g 的大作中提到】
: exactly, I was just trying to argue that it is not a bad call which you
: think it is. You are saying you will not make that call and that's the
: reason it is a terrible call. Who got bigger ego?? At this point, I think
: most people will be on my side and you just won't let it go. With all the
: information I gave, do you still think as you quoted a "terrible terrible
: call"? If so, please bring your complete logic.
:
: too
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 56 most people on your side or do you "think" most people are on your side?
you should not have told the hand others have and post the hand and do a
voting in the forum. see how many people will agree with your call.
seriously. try not to be results oriented and full of yourself. |
h******g
发帖数: 100 | 57 Do you think it is a "terrible terrible call"? I honestly don't think it is
a bad call. IT IS an arguable call but not qualify as a terrible terrible
call. As I said, I will do that 50% of the time.
And I think you are right, we definitely had different style. Another day
it was 7 handed, and I instantly called most of my chips with A2 on the big
blind against SB pushing all in with Q8. I knew he wasn't strong and that's
why I called. He hit the Q on the flop and won. I was crippled and o
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: 俺给你们总结一下吧，两个不同风格的选手。
: 如果你们两个从开始到最终都一致同意，那么建议你们不要玩，只能是赌场赚钱，呵呵。
:
: think
|
h******g
发帖数: 100 | 58 Sure you can do that if you want, here are the options:
Good Call
Arguable Call
Terrible terrible Call
I was thinking posting that on 2+2 but I don't think people there cares at
all.
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: most people on your side or do you "think" most people are on your side?
: you should not have told the hand others have and post the hand and do a
: voting in the forum. see how many people will agree with your call.
: seriously. try not to be results oriented and full of yourself.
|
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 59 i can be in no way to judge this, and i doubt anyone can, lol.
different players/situations make poker full of fun.
enjoy it, comrades!
is
terrible
big
's
the
【在 h******g 的大作中提到】
: Do you think it is a "terrible terrible call"? I honestly don't think it is
: a bad call. IT IS an arguable call but not qualify as a terrible terrible
: call. As I said, I will do that 50% of the time.
: And I think you are right, we definitely had different style. Another day
: it was 7 handed, and I instantly called most of my chips with A2 on the big
: blind against SB pushing all in with Q8. I knew he wasn't strong and that's
: why I called. He hit the Q on the flop and won. I was crippled and o
|
